37 réponses à ce sujet

[omgodzilla]

Its definitely not the most popular choice. I've yet to see a shooting Mordin thread or youtube video that doesn't have people screaming "OMG YOU PSYCHO WAR CRIMINAL, GO KILL YOURSELF!". 

 

I feel like Bioware doesn't get enough credit for how intense and powerful this scene really was. Shepard doesn't just shoot Mordin out of nowhere. He constantly warns him to stand down and only guns him down after Mordin's refusal to back down. What I really love about this scene was Shepard's reaction to it. You can totally tell that he feels a tremendous amount of guilt based on the look in his eyes and how he throws away his gun. And the conversation with the Joker and Garrus, immediately after, on the Normandy, signifies this further. Garrus mentions how Mordin wouldn't have stood for sabotaging the cure and Shepard says "no, he wouldn't" in the most heartbroken way. And then later on in the game, you can reveal the truth to Garrus and they both discuss how fucked up this war is.

 

I just love it. No other renegade choice has Shepard feeling so guilty. No other renegade choice makes him feel so human, despite how inhuman the actual act was. Shepard didn't want to kill Mordin but he felt that he had no choice, and he hates himself for doing that. 

 

I really wish more renegade options would've allowed Shepard to express guilt for his actions. This particular choice does a really good job of it. 

[fraggle]

I really agree. I didn't ever think I would pick this option, but I did with my FemShep on the 3rd Trilogy run and I loved it. Broke my heart, but it's really as you say, and the dialogue afterwards was so good, also with Javik. I was playing a character that was very mission first and when he told her that there's no room for morality anymore in this war, that was just so true for her in that moment and realised even more what's it gonna take.

I'm hoping for some more great moments like these in the upcoming game

[KotorEffect3]

It's probably up there when Wrex confronts Shepard after finding out about the cure being sabotaged, or when Tali watches the Quarian fleet burning across Rannoch's skies.  BTW I have not had the guts to do any of those.

[cap and gown]

 I've yet to see a shooting Mordin thread or youtube video that doesn't have people screaming "OMG YOU PSYCHO WAR CRIMINAL, GO KILL YOURSELF!". 

 

Spoiler

 

I feel the reason that people feel Shepard is a psycho for doing this is because they are not roleplaying. They have not constructed a profile for a Shepard that would lead him/her to doing this. They are simply going "renegade," meaning they are always picking the lower left option, not because it fits with any particular psych-profile, but because of its position on the dialogue wheel. The game is playing them rather than them using the game mechanics to play out a role.

 

If anything, a Shepard that can push a button and kill 300,000 Batarians is way more psycho than one who is willing to kill one Salarian to prevent the risk of a Krogan resurgence.

[Stronglav]

Nope bad decision.Well if you don't like krogan...

Kill his student in ME2 and delete the research.

Oh and kill Wrex too.  

[themikefest]

I don't know if its the best renegade decision in the trilogy. Not sure what renegade decision was the best in the trilogy.

 

Too bad there wasn't more renegade interrupts in ME3. I would've added several more in the game

 

I had no problem with shooting Mordin. The same with Padok, Wrex, and Falere

[Dani86]

I thought it was gut-wrenching for sure. But if Wrex/Bacara are dead, it is probably the most logical renegade decision in the trilogy. Many of the renegade interrupts are just Shepard being a jerk or giving in to his own emotions. This one was actually the right choice because if it is Wreav in charge, even if the reapers are defeated, it is almost guaranteed that there will be another galaxy-wide war in twenty years or so.  

[congokong]

The reason you don't encounter much praise for this scene is that most players prefer the "paragon = instant win" way of playing; killing as few people as possible with every bad possibility being merely an obstacle to overcome. Since they know you can avoid killing Mordin they scorn you for choosing it. I've even been told that I'm playing wrong and been accused of being sadistic for intentionally having things go tragically for drama/story-telling's sake.

 

Shooting Mordin is a great display of just how far Shepard has fallen from the stainless honor hero they perhaps strive to be; doing whatever they feel is necessary to stop the reapers. It emphasizes Javik's warning that Shepard won't be able to win this war with their honor intact, and trying to cling to it is foolish. Of course, because of the "paragon = instant win" mechanic you can in fact win the war with your honor intact, but that's besides the point.

[Jukaga]

It was a great scene and one of the most 'realistic' in the sense that it called you on the carpet: How much will you sacrifice not just for victory in war but victory in peace? The paraderp's version of the 'phage arc might have been a script from the old Gummi Bears cartoon. Good feels all around and lets just not think on the consequences of having thousand year lifespan mega turtles (with guns!) breed like e coli bacteria. What could go wrong?

 

ME2 TrueMordin smiles on Shepard killing that doppelganger.

[congokong]

Spoiler

 

I feel the reason that people feel Shepard is a psycho for doing this is because they are not roleplaying. They have not constructed a profile for a Shepard that would lead him/her to doing this. They are simply going "renegade," meaning they are always picking the lower left option, not because it fits with any particular psych-profile, but because of its position on the dialogue wheel. The game is playing them rather than them using the game mechanics to play out a role.

 

If anything, a Shepard that can push a button and kill 300,000 Batarians is way more psycho than one who is willing to kill one Salarian to prevent the risk of a Krogan resurgence.

This.

 

I could never get attached to a renegade Shepard who was mostly auto-renegade until I constructed a personality background beforehand that suited it; giving reasons for why they take the renegade paths besides for the lolz and because it was renegade. Yes, renegade responses make you more a jerk/hard-ass, but not loathsome ...usually; so I could still get into the character. And truthfully, most of the main choices I'd be more inclined towards picking renegade. Paragon/renegade isn't good/bad after all, but rather idealistic/practical. For example, I'd never destroy the Collector base in real life; knowing what's at stake and the advantages it might provide. Destroying it out of some principle because you don't trust TIM and because its use was repulsive despite the reapers perfect streak of victory so far is idiotic IMO.

[ThomasBlaine]

Agreed. When I look at some of the decisions an ideal "paragon" Shepard makes and the rather flimsy rationale s/he actually offers it's pretty clear that s/he thinks s/he lives in a world where doing the obviously moral thing either always pays off in the long run or is at least worth betting the rest of the galaxy on and hoping for the best, and it's only because it incidentally also says so in the script that that happens to be true.

 

Being willing to shoot Mordin for the greater good is kind of a testament to Shepard taking his/her responsibility seriously and recognizing that things could actually go wrong if s/he makes a bad call and that the stakes are just too high to be sentimental. And the game gives you plenty of justification for being concerned, even with Wrex and Eve in tip-top shape to do their best for the krogan. Wreav is obviously beyond reason, but Eve also doubts their ability to keep the other krogan in line from the get-go and even Wrex talks casually about his vision for the new "Krogan Empire" and recapturing the "glory of the ancients". Red flags, anyone?

 

Paragon/renegade isn't good/bad after all, but rather idealistic/practical. For example, I'd never destroy the Collector base in real life; knowing what's at stake and the advantages it might provide. Destroying it out of some principle because you don't trust TIM and because its use was repulsive despite the reapers perfect streak of victory so far is idiotic IMO.

 

Absolutely, and just like some renegade responses go too far into callousness or downright cruelty, some paragon responses go past idealism and into pointless and stupid moralizing. "I won't let fear compromise who I am" just isn't an argument for throwing away invaluable resources in a time of war. I usually blow it up because of the danger of indoctrination first, doubts about the actual usefulness of the base second and mistrust towards TIM third, but every time Shepard says that ridiculous sentence instead of giving any actual reason I want to hurt myself.

[congokong]

Absolutely, and just like some renegade responses go too far into callousness or downright cruelty, some paragon responses go past idealism and into pointless and stupid moralizing. "I won't let fear compromise who I am" just isn't an argument for throwing away invaluable resources in a time of war. I usually blow it up because of the danger of indoctrination first, doubts about the actual usefulness of the base second and mistrust towards TIM third, but every time Shepard says that ridiculous sentence instead of giving any actual reason I want to hurt myself.

That "I won't let fear compromise who I am" line about preserving your perception of honor and damn the consequences is similar to "Why won't Batman kill The Joker?" The Joker keeps breaking out of Arkham Asylum and kills more people, but Batman's ego won't let him do the practical (and what I believe is right) thing; even when the system fails Gotham's people time and again.

[ThomasBlaine]

That "I won't let fear compromise who I am" line about preserving your perception of honor and damn the consequences is similar to "Why won't Batman kill The Joker?" The Joker keeps breaking out of Arkham Asylum and kills more people, but Batman's ego won't let him do the practical (and what I believe is right) thing; even when the system fails Gotham's people time and again.

 

Exactly. Even if Batman feels like he's preserving his personal honor and keeping himself from becoming something he doesn't like the idea of, he's still failing to do what has to be done to save as many lives as he can which should be the more important thing. Taking personal responsibility for keeping people safe and then only going as far as you feel comfortable with when you know it may not be enough is to half-ass the job.

 

The straight paragon Shepard doesn't actually deserve a happy ending, because s/he's basically taken the easy option at every opportunity and tried to luck his/her way to victory.

[congokong]

This conversation reminds me of a clip from Justice League actually.

 

[ThomasBlaine]

Heh, Lex definitely had a point. If only Superman had thought to draw a line somewhere between killing one insane and dangerous person out of necessity and subjugating all of humanity on general principle that storyline might actually have gone somewhere sensible. Not that taking power into your own hands isn't a slippery slope, but there are middle grounds.

[congokong]

Heh, Lex definitely had a point. If only Superman had thought to draw a line somewhere between killing one insane and dangerous person out of necessity and subjugating all of humanity on general principle that storyline might actually have gone somewhere sensible. Not that taking power into your own hands isn't a slippery slope, but there are middle grounds.

Exactly. Playing the vigilante is a very slippery slope indeed, and people can easily mistake necessity for convenience. Back to Mass Effect, when the stake is the fate of the galaxy most things done to save it can be considered necessary though, such as preserving the Collector base as mentioned. When it comes to shooting Mordin, Wreav being a future tyrant isn't even relevant. That only would matter if they actually survived the reaper war, which is very optimistic at that point. Shooting Mordin is necessary for that salarian aid. Stopping an inevitable krogan overpopulation/war is only a bonus.

[ThomasBlaine]

Exactly. Playing the vigilante is a very slippery slope indeed, and people can easily mistake necessity for convenience. Back to Mass Effect, when the stake is the fate of the galaxy most things done to save it can be considered necessary though, such as preserving the Collector base as mentioned. When it comes to shooting Mordin, Wreav being a future tyrant isn't even relevant. That only would matter if they actually survived the reaper war, which is very optimistic at that point. Shooting Mordin is necessary for that salarian aid. Stopping an inevitable krogan overpopulation/war is only a bonus.

 

True. And while the collector base is a risks-versus-rewards decision you have to make on the spot with very little background information, the genophage can always be cured after the war if it still seems like a good idea. As presented, the choice's only downside is the moral responsibility of killing Mordin and tricking an entire species in addition to the relatively inconsequential backlash in the long-term, and with so much more riding on the Crucible than the actual war effort doing everything to get the best scientists in the galaxy on that project should be a no-brainer. Mordin's survival isn't even a valid factor in that equation, and balking at having to be the one to squeeze the trigger would be irresponsible, if understandable.

[Lebanese Dude]

As presented, the choice's only downside is the moral responsibility of killing Mordin and tricking an entire species (into believing they have a future)

 

You say that as if it's nothing.

[von uber]

It would make more sense if salarian war assets were vastly greater than the krogan (assuming a Wrexham lives scenario). In my opinion they should be anyway, but then the whole system makes no sense.

[NeroonWilliams]

I thought it was gut-wrenching for sure. But if Wrex/Bacara are dead, it is probably the most logical renegade decision in the trilogy. Many of the renegade interrupts are just Shepard being a jerk or giving in to his own emotions. This one was actually the right choice because if it is Wreav in charge, even if the reapers are defeated, it is almost guaranteed that there will be another galaxy-wide war in twenty years or so.  

Actually, if both Wrex and Bakara are dead, you can convince Mordin that the right choice IS to sabotage the cure.  He then just goes into hiding for the remainder of the game.

[ThomasBlaine]

You say that as if it's nothing.

 

Compared to the potential survival of all life and the danger of unleashing the krogan on a weakened galaxy? It is nothing.

 

 

It would make more sense if salarian war assets were vastly greater than the krogan (assuming a Wrexham lives scenario). In my opinion they should be anyway, but then the whole system makes no sense.

 

If you think about building the Crucible with Salarian help as a higher priority than Krogan ground forces in the long run, given that the Crucible is supposed to be the big life saver, it kinda makes sense, and that's pretty much what the Dalatrass tries to sell you on. The Salarian fleet and the STG are just a bonus.

[ZipZap2000]

Compared to the potential survival of all life and the danger of unleashing the krogan on a weakened galaxy? It is nothing.



If you think about building the Crucible with Salarian help as a higher priority than Krogan ground forces in the long run it kinda makes sense, and that's pretty much what the Dalatrass tries to sell you on. The Salarian fleets and the STG are just a bonus.

And so it begins....love these debates.

[ThomasBlaine]

And so it begins....love these debates.

 

Possibly the least helpful or constructive comment I've ever read on top of not fitting the context. Keep up the good work.

[ZipZap2000]

Possibly the least helpful or constructive comment I've ever read on top of not fitting the context. Keep up the good work.

Be more interesting the only advice I have for you then.

[congokong]

Be more interesting the only advice I have for you then.

You're being rude.