83 réponses à ce sujet

[TheThirdRace]

This argument works against Power Chord as well, seeing as it is an AoE ability also.  Clearly this isn't true with Power Chord, so why is it true with Cool Beats?

Because Power Chord's damage is direct and mostly kill instantly. It doesn't really matter if the enemies are bunched in a group or not, they just instantly die no matter how close or far they are in the 8m radius. And if they don't die on the first cast, just cast another Power Chord, they don't live past 1 second unless they block.

With Cool Beats (on Perilous), you need the upgrade to kill a single enemy in front of you otherwise the 8 seconds isn't enough for Cool Beats to kill it by itself. When enemies are bunched together, that waiting time is reduced considerably to around 4 seconds. Compared to Power Chord's instant gratification, it's still 3 more seconds.

Overall, because of how things spawns and move, using Cool Beats can lead to faster clearing times. The difference isn't gigantic, but I know a lot of people have faster clearing times with Cool Beats over Power Chord. On the other hand, my personal experience has been in favor of Power Chord. When using Cool Beats, I find myself waiting by the door for the effect to finish killing the enemies. When using Power Chord, I get there just as fast, but don't have to wait at the door. It's not an enormous lead, but consistently I've got better personal results with Power Chord. Sorry if it goes against other people personal results...

There's also an orange to apple comparison. Some people are talking about clearing time and others are talking about killing time. Both are completely different. The way things spawn and move, it favors Cool Beats on a lot of occasion, especially because of the range. But for killing fast, no freaking way. If you read my earlier posts again, you'll see I insist a lot on killing time while you do insist a lot on clearing time. I think we're both right enough, simply not talking about the exact same thing.

As I said earlier, it might just be a feeling. I'm not advocating against Cool Beats, it's awesome, I'm simply advocating for Power Chord. It's not a "if you're not with me you're against me" thing here...

Cool Beats can only be blocked by enemies with shields.  Enemies that actually block things, where it shows "blocked" when they block things, cannot block Cool Beats, but they can block Power Chord.  You can see both of these in mine and Drasca's videos.
 
Also during the thunderdome, I showed that Encore only activates off of about 95% of kills with Power Chord.  Drasca denied that this happened on PC, even after I pointed out that the same thing happened in the videos he posted.  Only after Yarpen confirmed that it does not work on PC did Drasca accept this.  Again, you can see this in both mine and Drasca's videos from that period.  This may have changed since then on PC, but it still does not work on console.

I've seen a lot of enemies block Cool Beats, not just enemies with shields. Hell, the Venatori Jedi can block about anything! I honestly don't feel like Cool Beats or Power Chord is blocked more than the other. I do feel better feedback with Power Chord though. If it's blocked, the enemy isn't dead, instant feedback, just cast it again it should do the trick. If Cool Beats is blocked, you wait to see if the blue damage number shows up, delayed feedback. I've seen situations where "blocked" is displayed and you still do the damage, I've seen situations where there's no mention of blocking and the damage doesn't trigger. Cool Beats can be finicky sometimes.

Even if it's not blocked, I've seen Cool Beats miss by going past my target, thru my target, circling around my target, disappearing before getting to my target, etc. All that being host... Cool Beats can definitely be a lot more finicky than Power Chord which hits reliably anything as long as it's in the circle of doom.

As for Encore triggering for Power Chord, I confirm it does trigger on PC, but not all the time. My bad for not explaining myself better earlier. My guess is that Encore use an internal cooldown of 8 seconds just like Flashpoint and all the other "trigger" abilities. Otherwise, the Virtuoso would cast free for the entire game, oh wait there's a trick for that

Anyway, I think we both did a good job explaining our point of view. In the interest of returning to the original subject, I'll try to refrain from replying to your reply, even if I enjoy a good debate

[lcneed]

So you are saying you prefer holding onto the shift button for sprint for the whole match instead of just tapping a number key whenever you need to move? No way you are serious...

 

I just tap shift once before running and once after jumping    By now it has became so habitual that I am doing it even on other games...    I have no idea why they would not make a run-lock for it.

[capn233]

Well, 1 cast vs 1 cast, they're right

It does take a lot longer to kill 1 target overall because it's DOT, but why see both sides of a coin if it suits your agenda?

 

Yeah I guess it is true if you run the fuzzy math in one way.  Like 0% crit chance and no flanking or range bonus, plus wrong number of DOTs.

 

It's really a shame you can't apply CB and use PC at the same time though...

 

edit:  Also wrt "Thunderdome" thread, maybe skip to pg 25 to start or something.

[ThatBruhYouDK]

Tried this on Bruh's #The Destroyer when we were doing NM. Didn't work at all, except I wasn't doing it properly (Forgot to put on inquisition staff and forgot to take off my barrier ring. It was an error!)

If you tried this last time we played then of course it didn't work...I am me.
You can't kill my Reaver, only I can kill my Reaver

[DragonRacer]

Ps. Any chatter about a ME4 Not even sure if it's being made but would be nice to beta test that

 

Since other folks have been answering the bulk of this post, I figured I'd answer your PS.

 

The next Mass Effect game is called Mass Effect: Andromeda. It's not really ME4 in the sense that it is not continuing anything about the original trilogy and/or its characters. Rather, just a new space adventure using the Mass Effect universe itself, with a new cast of characters, a new protagonist to play, new worlds to explore, and all that jazz.

 

It is supposed to release "holiday 2016", so sometime around this time next year.

 

That's all we really know about it so far.

[FMP2013]

With 30/32/32 stats, a Hakkon Wisdom and a storm belt, AW is the best choice hands down.

I'm 90/80/80 and my virtuoso cant deal the same damage on perilous with PC and stay alive.

[TheThirdRace]

With 30/32/32 stats, a Hakkon Wisdom and a storm belt, AW is the best choice hands down.

I'm 90/80/80 and my virtuoso cant deal the same damage on perilous with PC and stay alive.

I might not remember what it was to play at 30/30/30, but you're doing something very wrong if you can't stay alive on Perilous at 80/80/80 with the Virtuoso.

My advice would be to get some Heal on Kill, at least 20% if you're having problems. You also need to get ahead of the curve and burst your damage so you kill what you hit. Oh and Power Chord is distance dependent, you do more damage if you're point blank and it's a lot more damage too.

With those stats and the Hakkon staff, enemies should melt before even touching you most of the time...

[JiaJM98]

With 30/32/32 stats, a Hakkon Wisdom and a storm belt, AW is the best choice hands down.

I'm 90/80/80 and my virtuoso cant deal the same damage on perilous with PC and stay alive.

At 32 cunning it would be better to use heart of pride instead of hakkon because you don't have enough crit chance to make use of the 100% crit damage.

As of your damage, if you are using storm pact power chord would definitely 1 shot just about everything (and you don't even have to worry about immunities) at perilous.

If you are not using pact belt, you should still be able to 1 shot or 2 shot everything because, again, it's perilous. Surviving really shouldn't be an issue (unless, of course, you forgot to take off your pact belt at lv1 and recided to face rush everyting.)

[JiaJM98]

I might not remember what it was to play at 30/30/30, but you're doing something very wrong if you can't stay alive on Perilous at 80/80/80 with the Virtuoso.

I second this. My stats isn't much higher than that but I never found perilous an issue at all (unless I was reckless with my lv1, decide to rush through the zone and flicked on origin overlay to chat with friends... In such case unless you have like 300 con and you type pretty fast, there is very little you can do.).

I'm sure everyone knows this already, but if you want to go dps, go all the way. If you want to go support, then do that. A hybrid build will take a lot of skill points...

I used to feel I need to pick some support songs and passives to stay alive and try to mix in LKM in between power chord. But then I realised I'm actually better off just go power chord all the way. Even better after I slap on the storm pact. Melt things before they kill you. Problem solved.

[LearnedHand]

the original point of the thread was a mage that can grind promotions at an early stage.

 

Perilous at 30/30/30 was difficult before the armor buffs, no use being able to one shot with power cord if one arrow or wraith attack takes you down on the approach. Even after the armor buff I wouldn't say it is trivial. We've forgotten how promotions exponentially make us tougher.

[Snakebite]

Because Power Chord's damage is direct and mostly kill instantly. It doesn't really matter if the enemies are bunched in a group or not, they just instantly die no matter how close or far they are in the 8m radius. And if they don't die on the first cast, just cast another Power Chord, they don't live past 1 second unless they block.

With Cool Beats (on Perilous), you need the upgrade to kill a single enemy in front of you otherwise the 8 seconds isn't enough for Cool Beats to kill it by itself. When enemies are bunched together, that waiting time is reduced considerably to around 4 seconds. Compared to Power Chord's instant gratification, it's still 3 more seconds.

 

The reason isn't because it does all its damage at once, because if that were the case then Cool Beats has caught up to Power Chord after the second tick, which you claim still isn't enough.  The only reason it is better is crit damage.  When is the last time you tried using Power Chord without ridiculously high crit damage or crit chance?  Without that extra damage it's lackluster.  Comparing Power Chord with all the extra crit damage to Cool Beats is like comparing apples and oranges, as you say.

 

 

I've seen a lot of enemies block Cool Beats, not just enemies with shields. Hell, the Venatori Jedi can block about anything! I honestly don't feel like Cool Beats or Power Chord is blocked more than the other. I do feel better feedback with Power Chord though. If it's blocked, the enemy isn't dead, instant feedback, just cast it again it should do the trick. If Cool Beats is blocked, you wait to see if the blue damage number shows up, delayed feedback. I've seen situations where "blocked" is displayed and you still do the damage, I've seen situations where there's no mention of blocking and the damage doesn't trigger. Cool Beats can be finicky sometimes.

 

I have never Venatori Zealots or Red Templars block Cool Beats.  It hits them and it starts doing damage, even if they do their blocking animation.  My old thunderdome videos are full of it, if you would like a video reference.  The only enemies I have ever seen block Cool Beats are from a little testing I did today against Qunari Spearmen.  I had never tried using Cool Beats on them before today, seeing as I don't have Cool Beats at level one, and I never play below Nightmare when I am higher than level one (and they are immune to cold damage at high difficulty, so I never even tried using it on them before now).

 

 

As for Encore triggering for Power Chord, I confirm it does trigger on PC, but not all the time. My bad for not explaining myself better earlier. My guess is that Encore use an internal cooldown of 8 seconds just like Flashpoint and all the other "trigger" abilities. Otherwise, the Virtuoso would cast free for the entire game, oh wait there's a trick for that

 

No internal cooldown, also as shown in any of my thunderdome videos.

 

 

As of your damage, if you are using storm pact power chord would definitely 1 shot just about everything (and you don't even have to worry about immunities) at perilous.

 

Good luck not dying instantly with 30 constitution though.  Then again, the better armor may make enough of a difference.

 

I'm sure everyone knows this already, but if you want to go dps, go all the way. If you want to go support, then do that. A hybrid build will take a lot of skill points...

I used to feel I need to pick some support songs and passives to stay alive and try to mix in LKM in between power chord. But then I realised I'm actually better off just go power chord all the way. Even better after I slap on the storm pact. Melt things before they kill you. Problem solved.

 

 

That's because A Little Knight Music and Power Chord are too difficult to switch between.  Sure, they synergize nicely, but you can screw up too easily while switching between songs, especially when off host.  I usually throw in some Battle of the Bands every few Power Chords if I have teammates nearby.  It's easy to switch back and forth, and it's probably more helpful to your teammates than just another Power Chord.

 

As I said earlier, it might just be a feeling. I'm not advocating against Cool Beats, it's awesome, I'm simply advocating for Power Chord. It's not a "if you're not with me you're against me" thing here...

 

I will side with ThirdRace on this.  In most instances for players with high end gear and promotes, Power Chord trumps Cool Beats, hands down.

 

I'm fairly certain we are all in agreement that Cool Beats is not good above Perilous.  That's the real point, right?

 

And I am not advocating against Power Chord, only trying to correct what I believe are errors.

 

This is my stance, for the record:  Use Power Chord if you have a Hakkon's Wisdom and decent cunning; Cool Beats is useless when compared to Power Chord at this point.  If you do not have a Hakkon's Wisdom and good crit chance, you are most likely better served by Cool Beats.  DO NOT USE COOL BEATS ABOVE PERILOUS.  Or use a different mage.  Whatever floats your boat.  Maybe we can have a nice discussion about another mage now.

[Campout King]

Sarrabass or AW hands down...

Oh didn't see the scroll about the Virt....

Yeah, him too, leave the pact belts and cool anything alone

Just power cord, with LD ring and PC ring... helps to have any staff that does over 70 dam

[FMP2013]

I might not remember what it was to play at 30/30/30, but you're doing something very wrong if you can't stay alive on Perilous at 80/80/80 with the Virtuoso.

My advice would be to get some Heal on Kill, at least 20% if you're having problems. You also need to get ahead of the curve and burst your damage so you kill what you hit. Oh and Power Chord is distance dependent, you do more damage if you're point blank and it's a lot more damage too.

With those stats and the Hakkon staff, enemies should melt before even touching you most of the time...

I can survive, but can't solo and must stop attack to cast barrier, retreat, hide, don't take the storm belt, etc because I can't take a couple of hits without barrier. A single knockdown is death.

While the AW melt everything at melee and range with lightning, cloak, PotA, SB/SF even solo or with 3 teammates in the fade and everything attacking you.

[Beerfish]

People have all given you the WRONG answer op so I will give you the RIGHT answer.

 

Rion the Elementalist, non wall of fire, non firestorm build.

 

Arcane Warrior, a boring fellow who has to ignore team mates to survive, wackety wackety whack with his little spirit blade.

Sara Bust, oh minutes  notice.

 

Zither the Bard?  Please, you have actually memorize spell combos and you wear out your pointing finger having to spam the right button.  Bah!

 

Now Rion, excellent team mates with life saving barrier, your team mates will luv you.

Frost step, keeps you alive as you zip in to rez and barrier and zip out of trouble.

Winters grasp, great crowd control, your fighters will salute you as they get to bash enemies into frosty bits.

Immolate, panics your foes, more crowd control and a fine damager.

 

Your all around best mage.  Nope!  Don't even try to argue!

[capn233]

I can survive, but can't solo and must stop attack to cast barrier, retreat, hide, don't take the storm belt, etc because I can't take a couple of hits without barrier. A single knockdown is death.

While the AW melt everything at melee and range with lightning, cloak, PotA, SB/SF even solo or with 3 teammates in the fade and everything attacking you.

 

I try not to cast Barrier much at all, really only good to protect against some magic damage.  Otherwise Little Knight Music is the best defensive power, and upgraded Power Chord will dispel burning DOT and some other magic attacks.

 

No arguing that AW is probably better in a lot of ways though.

[lcneed]

Does winter pact belt work on Cool Beat?   I want to try Heart of Despair/Winter Pact/Cool Beat Virtuoso, but I still have not gotten the winter belt..

[JiaJM98]

Does winter pact belt work on Cool Beat?   I want to try Heart of Despair/Winter Pact/Cool Beat Virtuoso, but I still have not gotten the winter belt..

Winter pact belt does work on Cool beats as you saw last time I played Bard before I CTD

 

But even if you use heart of despair you still won't be able to face tank anything though... If you want your cool beats to hurt, then you definitely need to pick up those damage passives first, and you would then need to be at pretty high levels to pick up these defence passives.

[lcneed]

 

 

But even if you use heart of despair you still won't be able to face tank anything though...

 

LOL I don't want to face tank anything!    I just don't want to die with a few arrows.   My V could PC thru threatening easily, but just can't hang in Perilous.   The main problem is that I can't wear my PI amulet on V.. because I like the Regen one better with the songs.    With PC, I need to get close... I don't have to do that with CB.   I tried HL but my HL even with Infernal belt and HL ring is not doing that much damage.

[JiaJM98]

LOL I don't want to face tank anything!    I just don't want to die with a few arrows.   My V could PC thru threatening easily, but just can't hang in Perilous.   The main problem is that I can't wear my PI amulet on V.. because I like the Regen one better with the songs.    With PC, I need to get close... I don't have to do that with CB.   I tried HL but my HL even with Infernal belt and HL ring is not doing that much damage.

LOL PI is always the answer to everything. As you said yourself, your "main problem is ... can't wear my PI amulet on V". So put it on and problem solved

 

If you use a cool beat build on Perilous with winter pact I can't see why you would possibly need mana regen because things will die away so fast and you can spam songs for free because encore works all the time on cool beats. In fact I don't think you even need pact belt for perilous...

[Proto]

People have all given you the WRONG answer op so I will give you the RIGHT answer.

 

Rion the Elementalist, non wall of fire, non firestorm build.

 

Good advice, Beerfish. Elementalist is a great character. Played many many Perilous games with him back in the 11 constitution days.

[DragonRacer]

Good advice, Beerfish. Elementalist is a great character. Played many many Perilous games with him back in the 11 constitution days.

 

Elementalist is, honestly, still my favorite mage to play.

[Beerfish]

Elementalist is, honestly, still my favorite mage to play.

"And I thought you were all terrible."

"We survived!  I guess I'm out some gold."

[DragonRacer]

"And I thought you were all terrible."

"We survived!  I guess I'm out some gold."

 

That last one makes me chuckle because he must be a shrewd better. I mean, if he was right and they didn't survive... he wouldn't be around to pay up the gold he'd owe anyway, right? 

[Snakebite]

That last one makes me chuckle because he must be a shrewd better. I mean, if he was right and they didn't survive... he wouldn't be around to pay up the gold he'd owe anyway, right? 

 

Wouldn't that make him a foolish better?  If they survive, he has to pay up.  If they die, he can't collect.  His companions would have to be stupid not to take him up on that bet.

[lcneed]

Wouldn't that make him a foolish better?  If they survive, he has to pay up.  If they die, he can't collect.  His companions would have to be stupid not to take him up on that bet.

 

Nope because he will "win" either case.  If they survive, he wins, because he is still alive to bet another day.  If they don't, it will be remembered that his last bet was a winning bet.

 

Now if he went the other way, he could only win if they survive... is like putting all your eggs in one basket.