189 réponses à ce sujet

[Vox Draco]

To be fair, I assumed we all guessed that the BS, about our choices making a difference was defunct by now. Come on really they did that in with the end of ME 3 and to a lesser degree in ME 2. How difficult would it be to make a ME game without using a standard game world, not based on our choices.

 

Amen, Brother Hslaw...All that happened in ME2 and ME3 are nothing more than hallucinations anyway - Shepard got sucked out into the vaccum of space at the start of ME2, and really, what makes sense anymore right after that anyway? And as far as I am concerned, even THAT is just happening in Sheps mind - just think about the drugs she must have got after blowing up Sovereign in ME1 as part of her well-needed medical treatment? Geez, I hope she'll get outta sickbay soon, she has a galaxy to save after all ^^

[ZipZap2000]

I wonder what a krogan tastes like...?

BREEDING REQUEST ACCEPTED!

[Display Name Owner]

Even if you don't cure them and have Wreav, so he commits them to fighting on Palaven and then goes off and does some other shenanigans, I'd say there should still be quite a few Krogan knocking about. Just not very, very many of them. I mean, I guess eventually even Wreav would notice there aren't any more live births than before, so he'd be forced to stop any silly wars relatively early on, probably.

[Kabooooom]

It's also worth noting that we dont actually know when this game takes place, so we dont actually know if your choice of a genophage cure would be relevant or not. We know it actually takes place technologically in the near future of ME3, as you are using the M40 Mako, and the M35 Mako was made in 2183 at the latest, and the M29 Grizzly existed during the First Contact War. So it seems unreasonable that 1,000 years of actual time has passed for the crew of the Ark. Even if the game takes place hundreds of years in the future of ME3 due to the journey to Andromeda, whether or not the colonists are in cryo is irrelevant - they obviously must have left very near in time to ME3 to have technology which is barely more advanced than the current galactic standard.

It's also entirely plausible that the M40 Mako was made by 2186 as a prototype, since we dont actually know what year the M35 was made in. In that scenario, which I find most likely, the Ark would leave before or during the Reaper War.

So, if they left before the end of ME3, the genophage could be either cured or not cured. Same situation if they left after. Either way, the fact that the tech is not that advanced implies that the colonists are comprised of people from around the time that ME3 occurred. There would still be plenty of Krogans around even without a genophage cure, but they wouldn't exactly make the best colonists now would they?

This is why I think that Bioware has to (superficially) invalidate your choice here- the genophage is cured for the Krogans in Andromeda. There isnt another option. If you cured the genophage, then great. If you didnt, then the Council probably had the Salarians cure it for the Krogans that are going to Andromeda. Problem solved. This has the beneficial effect of (assuming the ark leaves before the actual genophage cure choice happens) having no effect on your choice in ME3 whatsoever, similar to how it would have no effect on ending choice.

[In Exile]

The genophage isn't a sterility plague or a deadly one. It just messes with their birth rate. A small population of krogan could survive, albeit with the absolute terror of their stillbirths. 

[7twozero]

What gets me about this "Bioware doesn't respect the player's choice" thing that seems to permeate every thread here is that I wonder "Where's the respect for any of Bioware's choices or even the 'right' of a 'writer' to make their own choices about how to 'synthesize' or 'not synthesize' a new 'book' with their own past body of work."

People in the sp forums will get butthurt over literally anything

[goishen]

I think the genophage will give BioWare something to chomp on writing - wise.  In order to keep the krogans from fighting, you'll have to perform X, Y, and Z.  You want to keep them from fighting because of the genophage and their limited numbers, which we all know they adapt out of within 1K years.  Which is about the lifespan of a krogan.

[Vortex13]

I really hope that the Genophage isn't the focus of the Krogan again in Andromeda.

 

I get that they are popular with the fanbase, but I would much rather have more focus on one of the other Milky Way species; the ones that got snubbed in the trilogy like the Rachni and the Elcor; and would actually have an original story to tell, than to see an exact repeat of the same story arc that we have already spent the past three games going over.

[Barquiel]

I really hope that the Genophage isn't the focus of the Krogan again in Andromeda.

 

I get that they are popular with the fanbase, but I would much rather have more focus on one of the other Milky Way species; the ones that got snubbed in the trilogy like the Rachni and the Elcor; and would actually have an original story to tell, than to see an exact repeat of the same story arc that we have already spent the past three games going over.

 

Agreed. I hope they don't keep dwelling on Genophage/Geth-Quarian subplots anymore after so much focus in the original trilogy (...I doubt the joke races will have major roles, maybe the rachni)

[Laughing_Man]

What gets me about this "Bioware doesn't respect the player's choice" thing that seems to permeate every thread here is that I wonder "Where's the respect for any of Bioware's choices or even the 'right' of a 'writer' to make their own choices about how to 'synthesize' or 'not synthesize' a new 'book' with their own past body of work."

 

There's only this minor fact, we pay for this product. If Bioware wants to give me something for free, I will give them only respect.

 

But if I buy a product, I care about my experience with it.

[UpUpAway]

There's only this minor fact, we pay for this product. If Bioware wants to give me something for free, I will give them only respect.

 

But if I buy a product, I care about my experience with it.

 

Then I would suggest that perhaps the only video game product you should buy should be your own game development kit. It's one thing to care about a story... it's another to go on for 4 years trying to convince someone else to totally redo theirs.  There just seems to be a real reluctance to accept that an RPG is still not a story written by the player, but a story written by an author that gives the player a very "limited" freedom to shape one character within the story.  On the plus side, the player gets more engaged with the story than they would by just reading a book or watching a movie.  On the negative side, it puts the "writer" of the story in a position of not being able to "end" the story or, in this case, to pare down or ignore the possible endings of a previous story in order to write a sequel to that story.

[goishen]

I really hope that the Genophage isn't the focus of the Krogan again in Andromeda.

 

I get that they are popular with the fanbase, but I would much rather have more focus on one of the other Milky Way species; the ones that got snubbed in the trilogy like the Rachni and the Elcor; and would actually have an original story to tell, than to see an exact repeat of the same story arc that we have already spent the past three games going over.

 

 

I don't think that it will be a major focus, but it'll still be a focus.  See the Mage vs Templar war in DA:I for an example.   Might take up to an eighth of your total playtime.  (or about 15%)

[Laughing_Man]

Then I would suggest that perhaps the only video game product you should buy should be your own game development kit. It's one thing to care about a story... it's another to go on for 4 years trying to convince someone else to totally redo theirs.

 

Straw-man arguments before the argument even started?

 

I don't remember saying that Bioware needs to redo anything recently, I did point out quite a few times flaws in their products, but that's called criticism.

[animedreamer]

The thing to me is, is that the genophage has been a plot element in 3 games now. 3 games, it's boring, cure the damn thing and move on. There aren't that many krogans alive in Andromeda for them to be a threat to the entire new galaxy.

It's like Dragon Age and the plight of the Elves being bums, okay we get it you established some serious history, but the whole point of these games is to have major impact on the world or universe right? So stop churning out the same plot elements, or make some actual major changes to the setting. Give the damn Krogan the cure so we don't have to hear about them slowly dying out in yet a 4th game. Give the damn Elves an island or their own home state where they can finally build their own society so they can shut the **** up. It's not like these changes aren't merited, depending on how you view certain aspects the Krogans have shown they deserve a chance to choose their own path, and the Elves maybe more so as you can play as a Elf in 2 of the 3 games similarly have demonstrated they can be just as noble if not strong/intelligent as any human. They should have their own land since originally it was all theirs in the first place.

 

sorry, rant over. It's just after 3 games I'm ready for some actual change, and not just changing the locale.

[UpUpAway]

Straw-man arguments before the argument even started?

 

I don't remember saying that Bioware needs to redo anything recently, I did point out quite a few times flaws in their products, but that's called criticism.

 

... and the comment you quoted of mine was not specifically directed at you... nor is the response.  It's a general "feeling" of the many threads that go in the same direction as this one time and time and time again on this website.  It's a "mass effect."  The trend I see from this and other game site forums is that the players frequently actually want to write their own games... not just play games written by others.  I think it's a really tough genre of writing for writers to be in... and I actually speculate that it's a genre that won't survive much longer.  The trend gaming development companies are going to in defense seems to me to be to generate games that offer less and less of the sort of flexibility that Mass Effect attempted to offer in that trilogy and to reveal less and less information about them prior to release.

 

It's not an argument... it's an observation.

[Vortex13]

Agreed. I hope they don't keep dwelling on Genophage/Geth-Quarian subplots anymore after so much focus in the original trilogy (...I doubt the joke races will have major roles, maybe the rachni)

 

 

Aliens like the Hanar and Elcor are only "joke races" because BioWare's writers have be extremely lazy in utilizing them to their full potential (IMO). Sure, actually thinking about a nuanced narrative for a Hanar character would be harder than going "Big Stupid Jellyfish" all the time, but the payoff would certainly be worth it.

 

At the very least, it would be more interesting than the Krogan Genophage debate 2.0

[Degrees1991]

I hope Krogan are the main focus of this series.

[Laughing_Man]

... and the comment you quoted of mine was not specifically directed at you... nor is the response.  It's a general "feeling" of the many threads that go in the same direction as this one time and time and time again on this website.  It's a "mass effect."  The trend I see from this and other game site forums is that the players frequently actually want to write their own games... not just play games written by others.  I think it's a really tough genre of writing for writers to be in... and I actually speculate that it's a genre that won't survive much longer.  The trend gaming development companies are going to in defense seems to me to be to generate games that offer less and less of the sort of flexibility that Mass Effect attempted to offer in that trilogy and to reveal less and less information about them prior to release.

 

It's not an argument... it's an observation.

 

In many areas corporations have more or less total control over consumers, they rarely wake up to demand anything.

 

Luckily in video games it's not quite the same, with consumers acting in a way that does not allow mega corporations to rampage quite in the unchecked manner that they would have liked, I would think that more people would celebrate this small victory for the little guy.

 

It's healthy for companies like EA to know that sometimes their consumers might react quite spectacularly when they pull the rope too much, it has the potential to keep them somewhat honest.(or more underhanded I guess...)

 

And as for less information prior to release, I don't see the problem. It's much better than seeing games downgraded after release or shipped with less content than was advertised.

[UpUpAway]

In many areas corporations have more or less total control over consumers, they rarely wake up to demand anything.

 

Luckily in video games it's not quite the same, with consumers acting in a way that does not allow mega corporations to rampage quite in the unchecked manner that they would have liked, I would think that more people would celebrate this small victory for the little guy.

 

It's healthy for companies like EA to know that sometimes their consumers might react quite spectacularly when they pull the rope too much, it has the potential to keep them somewhat honest.(or more underhanded I guess...)

 

And as for less information prior to release, I don't see the problem. It's much better than seeing games downgraded after release or shipped with less content than was advertised.

 

If I buy a book and the binding falls apart... that's one thing.  If I buy a book and I don't like the way the author wrote the story... that's quite another.  The majority of the complaints I've seen here are all about the "consumer" not liking the way the author wrote the story... so, I feel then that the only way to resolve that sort of complaint is to simply not spend the tons of money it takes to develop a video game and just hand the player a video game development kit and say, "Here, you write you own story."

 

What's happening here is not a victory... because it's causing the companies to move away from attempting to write more interactive RPGS towards writing games where there is LESS ability to define an individual player character... making playing video games more and more like reading a book with intervals where you just get to shoot things.  It's the players who will wind up with less because the writers won't be willing to take the sort of creative risk Bioware took in doing the ME Trilogy in the first place.

[Vortex13]

The thing to me is, is that the genophage has been a plot element in 3 games now. 3 games, it's boring, cure the damn thing and move on. There aren't that many krogans alive in Andromeda for them to be a threat to the entire new galaxy.

It's like Dragon Age and the plight of the Elves being bums, okay we get it you established some serious history, but the whole point of these games is to have major impact on the world or universe right? So stop churning out the same plot elements, or make some actual major changes to the setting. Give the damn Krogan the cure so we don't have to hear about them slowly dying out in yet a 4th game. Give the damn Elves an island or their own home state where they can finally build their own society so they can shut the **** up. It's not like these changes aren't merited, depending on how you view certain aspects the Krogans have shown they deserve a chance to choose their own path, and the Elves maybe more so as you can play as a Elf in 2 of the 3 games similarly have demonstrated they can be just as noble if not strong/intelligent as any human. They should have their own land since originally it was all theirs in the first place.

 

sorry, rant over. It's just after 3 games I'm ready for some actual change, and not just changing the locale.

 

 

Agreed on the bolded part.

 

If the Krogan are going to be in Andromeda regardless of player choices (which we know they are), then actually do something original with them please.

 

I really don't want to have to sit through another Mass Effect game with some Krogan whining about "Mah people" or "Evil Genophages" again. 

[Laughing_Man]

If I buy a book and the binding falls apart... that's one thing.  If I buy a book and I don't like the way the author wrote the story... that's quite another.  The majority of the complaints I've seen here are all about the "consumer" not liking the way the author wrote the story... so, I feel then that the only way to resolve that sort of complaint is to simply not spend the tons of money it takes to develop a video game and just hand the player a video game development kit and say, "Here, you write you own story."

 

What's happening here is not a victory... because it's causing the companies to move away from attempting to write more interactive RPGS towards writing games where there is LESS ability to define an individual player character... making playing video games more and more like reading a book with intervals where you just get to shoot things.  It's the players who will wind up with less because the writers won't be willing to take the sort of creative risk Bioware took in doing the ME Trilogy in the first place.

 

I simply disagree. I think that it is very possible to do a better job, games do not need to be the half-arsed rushed affairs that they sometimes are.

Indeed many games did better, and many games will do so again.

 

"Write your own story" is the coward's way out, and maybe we would be better off if the old the tired and the petty will take it.

They can go work for Konami instead. There are always going to be others.

 

Those cheap scare tactics are not going to work, it's legitimate to demand quality, without the drive to improve very little would change and companies would re-sell the same crap every year for full price.

[Master Warder Z_]

In many areas corporations have more or less total control over consumers, they rarely wake up to demand anything.

 

Luckily in video games it's not quite the same, with consumers acting in a way that does not allow mega corporations to rampage quite in the unchecked manner that they would have liked, I would think that more people would celebrate this small victory for the little guy.

 

It's healthy for companies like EA to know that sometimes their consumers might react quite spectacularly when they pull the rope too much, it has the potential to keep them somewhat honest.(or more underhanded I guess...)

 

And as for less information prior to release, I don't see the problem. It's much better than seeing games downgraded after release or shipped with less content than was advertised.

 

You should check out Ross Scott if you haven't already, he's doing a campaign against EA killing games, I sent a hand written letter as requested. Apparently his hope is that it will be more difficult to ignore a mailroom full of letters then say a email.

[Laughing_Man]

You should check out Ross Scott if you haven't already, he's doing a campaign against EA killing games, I sent a hand written letter as requested. Apparently his hope is that it will be more difficult to ignore a mailroom full of letters then say a email.

 

I will certainly check it out.

[Master Warder Z_]

I will certainly check it out.

 

Freemen's mind is a excellent series and deserves far more love then it gets anyway.

 

I am quite thrilled that the man is actually still active even after he completed his series, it gives me hope for the future of Youtube, he's about the only person I donate to regularly on Youtube, the rest of those people who beg for my money only get it when they put out product, Ross got to move to Poland on my dime, and gets to live like a well paid janitor over there because of my generosity.

 

 

A video where Ross and co discuss the issue a month or so ago.

 

It got a bit of attention because Total Biscuit was the one who invited Ross on.

 

The portion where Ross talks about the issue is 2:12:50 in unless if you don't want to sit through a two hour discourse.

[goishen]

I simply disagree. I think that it is very possible to do a better job, games do not need to be the half-arsed rushed affairs that they sometimes are.

Indeed many games did better, and many games will do so again.

 

"Write your own story" is the coward's way out, and maybe we would be better off if the old the tired and the petty will take it.

They can go work for Konami instead. There are always going to be others.

 

Those cheap scare tactics are not going to work, it's legitimate to demand quality, without the drive to improve very little would change and companies would re-sell the same crap every year for full price.

 

In what types of games?  Name some.