75 réponses à ce sujet

[Dai Grepher]

As much as I agree that the Inquisitor should have been more proactive with more options, sometimes I wonder how well we would fare under EA's budgetary deadlines...

 

I would do fine. First, the story would have been a lot better, but just using Trespasser's example, the choice to detain your own guard (Solas' spy) should actually helped in the effort against Solas. Revealing the dead body to the council should also count toward the Inquisition's credit. And if an objection is raised saying that the Qunari are there because of the Inquisition, you should be able to point out that he came from an eluvian inside the palace, which means it was Celene's fault for keeping it there. Also, gaining evidence that Viddasala had gone rogue should have paid off in convincing Hissrad to ignore her order. There are a lot of things that should be counting for or against you in Trespasser. This would have been better than all the corny "jokes" and gags in the beginning.
 

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Also, gaining evidence that Viddasala had gone rogue should have paid off in convincing Hissrad to ignore her order.
 

Is there evidence that Viddasala went rogue in the DLC? Other than the word of the Qunari themselves? My interpretation was that they wanted her to succeed and were only saying she was acting against their wishes in case she failed, and on the off-chance that you accepted their word they were taking care of the problem and didn't work to do so yourself.

 

As for your greater point: again, this all takes effort. They were trying to get it all done quickly, and that meant some details were going to be neglected.

[BansheeOwnage]

 

And as the first reply suggested, if the Inquisitor was so helpless, how are we going to defeat Solas barring some kind of deus ex machina weapon or plot device (this almost reminds me of the Reapers)?

It also made me think of the Reapers because it's true, Bioware doesn't have a great reputation for finding a believable and interesting way to defeat a nigh-undefeatable foe. My guess is it'll have to do with Titans.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Is there evidence that Viddasala went rogue in the DLC? Other than the word of the Qunari themselves? My interpretation was that they wanted her to succeed and were only saying she was acting against their wishes in case she failed, and on the off-chance that you accepted their word they were taking care of the problem and didn't work to do so yourself.

 

As for your greater point: again, this all takes effort. They were trying to get it all done quickly, and that meant some details were going to be neglected.

There was a crumpled up letter in the corner of Vidasala's office from the Qun Triumvirate to Josephine responding to her inquiry saying that they ordered no such thing. It could be them lying, but the fact Vidasala had the note crumpled up and thrown in the corner of her office rather than letting it be delivered suggests they were being genuine since if it was all just an act she'd have let the note be delivered. 

[BansheeOwnage]

Revealing the dead body to the council should also count toward the Inquisition's credit. And if an objection is raised saying that the Qunari are there because of the Inquisition, you should be able to point out that he came from an eluvian inside the palace, which means it was Celene's fault for keeping it there.

Another, more convincing point in the Inquisition's favour is that the Dragon's Breath plan was going to take out the leaders of all major nations simultaneously. They would have blown the Orlesians and Fereldans to kingdom come either way (and probably the Inquisition at Skyhold), and it's actually only because the Inquisition was there that the plan was foiled. All of Thedas should be giving you thanks, not ordering you to disband.

[BansheeOwnage]

There was a crumpled up letter in the corner of Vidasala's office from the Qun Triumvirate to Josephine responding to her inquiry saying that they ordered no such thing. It could be them lying, but the fact Vidasala had the note crumpled up and thrown in the corner of her office rather than letting it be delivered suggests they were being genuine since if it was all just an act she'd have let the note be delivered. 

One of the reasons I got the impression she was in fact sanctioned was because there is no way Josephine would have been able to get a message to the Qunari that quickly, and she gave no indication that she tried. So it seemed like something they prepared in advance and were simply waiting to use. Then again, it seems communication was at the speed of plot in this DLC, since otherwise I have no idea how the Inquisition found out other capitals were being targeted by Dragon's Breath, or how they warned them in time to stop their destruction.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

One of the reasons I got the impression she was in fact sanctioned was because there is no way Josephine would have been able to get a message to the Qunari that quickly, and she gave no indication that she tried. So it seemed like something they prepared in advance and were simply waiting to use. Then again, it seems communication was at the speed of plot in this DLC, since otherwise I have no idea how the Inquisition found out other capitals were being targeted by Dragon's Breath, or how they warned them in time to stop their destruction.

Yeah, the speed Leliana got that information about the other capitals doesn't seem to make sense. The main game also had that problem, treating for example going to Val Royeaux from Skyhold and back as something can be done in an afternoon rather than the weeks it would take.

 

Maybe Trespasser was originally planned to take place over a longer period of time, since the talks were mentioned to be planned to last for days or even weeks if I recall correctly. If so, then the messages getting responses make more sense.

 

Or Leliana's ravens are magical and can fly at supersonic speeds.

[kimgoold]

Is Mythal dead?, after the main game ended I went to Val Royeaux and wandering around listening to NPC's talking, and heard the elven servant talking with his human patron. The patron was chastising his servant about waking the household screaming and yelling in his sleep, to which the servant replies some woman called Mythal was talking to him in his sleep .. so I believe that (if your quisi drank) the inquisitor is still bound to Mythal not Solas/Fen'harel.

 

I personally would love to see the HoF return to kick Solas's ass. But as others have said I too see the Titans playing a part via Shaper Valta.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

There was a crumpled up letter in the corner of Vidasala's office from the Qun Triumvirate to Josephine responding to her inquiry saying that they ordered no such thing. It could be them lying, but the fact Vidasala had the note crumpled up and thrown in the corner of her office rather than letting it be delivered suggests they were being genuine since if it was all just an act she'd have let the note be delivered. 

I see. Yeah, that sounds right.

[CoM Solaufein]

Nah, I'm too awesome to get "owned". He's playing into my trap.

[SwobyJ]

Yeah, the speed Leliana got that information about the other capitals doesn't seem to make sense. The main game also had that problem, treating for example going to Val Royeaux from Skyhold and back as something can be done in an afternoon rather than the weeks it would take.

 

Maybe Trespasser was originally planned to take place over a longer period of time, since the talks were mentioned to be planned to last for days or even weeks if I recall correctly. If so, then the messages getting responses make more sense.

 

Or Leliana's ravens are magical and can fly at supersonic speeds.

 

Skyhold to Val Roy is days tops. This isn't taking backroads (aside from the roads the Inquisition is forming in the mountains), like the Warden would have had to do while trudging across Ferelden, but basically the highways of Thedas.

 

Impression I got from Leliana's ravens can also travel within days.

 

Thedas gives an impression of a gigantic world but if the known map is really just 'Reverse Europe', its actually relatively small.

 

The Council is a meeting of days to weeks.

 

We don't get fade outs to pass the days, for gameplay convenience. Same with how Shepard's fight in ME3 is over the span on months but he only 'sleeps' a few times.

 

Its easy for me to believe that ravens can travel 100s of miles a day/two days, and therefore messages are sent swiftly enough for plot, if barely.

[SwobyJ]

I'm not too sad about the Inquisitor and Solas, in this regard.

 

In hindsight, I got a better view of what the Inquisitor is, what their 'power level' generally is, and what they were facing all along with Solas.

 

The Inquisitor may be the most powerful PC in the DA games so far, but a huge chunk of that is the Mark, amplifying anything the Inquisitor would have otherwise had going on. Without it/with it debilitating him/her, I'd say they're instead at or slightly above or below the Warden's 'level' (I consider the Warden stronger than Hawke overall, but Hawke to be a stronger person if 'skills' are set aside in factoring).

 

So the Inquisitor is facing Solas as a mortal again. Okay, they always were mortal, but the narrative had the character propped up by so many people/factors that it was 'as if' they were a demi-god. Well, now you're facing an 'actual' god/demi-god. Drama.

 

Yes, it might have been nice to have the Inquisitor 'master' their Mark to such a level as to oppose Solas, but just as DAI was about soaring high, it was also about having to come back down to earth, albeit changed from the experience. I was ready to have the Inquisitor ready to hit a wall/the ground, and he could have done it much worse, things considered.

 

If the Inquisitor teams up with the new PC (I'm not going to entertain those clamoring to pay as Inquisitor again) in addressing Solas and plays a proper role in it, then cool. (I hope also to visit Weisshaupt to possibly meet Hawke again before Trespasser occurs in the timeline, and maybe for it to even tie into what a living Warden was up to.)

 

One of the bigger predictions for the next PC is that they're a Dreamer somehow. A master Dreamer really could learn the things necessary to stop Solas and more. The Inquisitor could play an important role in this.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Skyhold to Val Roy is days tops. This isn't taking backroads (aside from the roads the Inquisition is forming in the mountains), like the Warden would have had to do while trudging across Ferelden, but basically the highways of Thedas.

I don't know enough about the plot of Trespasser to answer the rest of this, but the Warden spends much of Origins traveling on the Imperial Highway created by Tevinter. True, he'll need to take some backroads while going to Dalish camps or Soldier's Peak or such, but the destinations a human would ordinarily find important are probably along a highway.

[GoldenGail3]

I'm sure Artemis was. He probaly had this moment in his life were he was totally dumb to what was happening. I'm sure that it only made him snark more often out of self-deprication then anything. Solas outplayed my smart-arse Lavellen who took like a little boy when he realized he was the grand pawn in the evening. He probaly raged about it later....

[Abyss108]

I'm fine with it, as I'm sure we'll get the option to kick his ass for it later.

[RoughTumble]

Make no mistake, Solas is the main character in DAI.  It's his story.  All others are merely accessories to Solas.  The Inquisitor, Inquisition, and everyone who is a part of the Inquisition exist because Solas woke and gave his orb to Corypheus.  All other plots elements, such as mages v. templars are secondary to the breach that began with Solas.  Even Corypheus is a Solas pawn.  From the ending that hobbles the Inquisitor and disbands or changes the Inquisition, all is expendable except for Solas and Solas is all powerfu and unavoidablel.

 

Think about fighting him with your character's one arm, then maybe try praying to him.  Have your characters beg.  Whatever will work will only work if the lead writer allows players to remove or diminish his seemingly favored character, the main character in this plot where we are there for Solas' story.  Given that Solas is the ultimate in all-powerful, all-knowing Mary Sues I'll be surprised at anything more difficult for him than a broken orb.  It'll be as he wants it to be and in the end, the revelation will reveal that Solas is and always was wonderful and we accessory characters were just too unimaginative and uninformed to realize.

[Medhia_Nox]

Solas is smug now... but when I release the Forbidden Ones, the Titans and the Evanuris on him... the little bald rat won't be smiling anymore.  

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Solas is smug now... but when I release the Forbidden Ones, the Titans and the Evanuris on him... the little bald rat won't be smiling anymore.  

That sounds like a very bad idea.

[ComedicSociopathy]

Solas is smug now... but when I release the Forbidden Ones, the Titans and the Evanuris on him... the little bald rat won't be smiling anymore.  

 

That would be sort of like unleashing Mecha Godzilla, Rodan, Battra, Mothra and Space Godzilla just to defeat normal Godzilla. You're going to have more problems then you started out with. 

[Ashagar]

Solas is smug now... but when I release the Forbidden Ones, the Titans and the Evanuris on him... the little bald rat won't be smiling anymore.  

 

I suspect you might mean the forgotten ones, as three  of the four forbidden ones have been possibly encountered and slain. The only one of the forbidden ones that hasn't shown up is the formless void.

[Dai Grepher]

Is there evidence that Viddasala went rogue in the DLC? Other than the word of the Qunari themselves? My interpretation was that they wanted her to succeed and were only saying she was acting against their wishes in case she failed, and on the off-chance that you accepted their word they were taking care of the problem and didn't work to do so yourself.

 

As for your greater point: again, this all takes effort. They were trying to get it all done quickly, and that meant some details were going to be neglected.

 

Was BioWare under a deadline for Trespasser? I don't see why they would be.

 

Anyway, the evidence is that Viddasala intercepted the reply letter back to Josephine and crumpled it up, as Hanako pointed out, but there is also more evidence than that. Hissrad's letters were being intercepted by Viddasala, and we know he was sending them because Leliana is to verify everything in those letters. Also, a former templar in the Deep Roads who had since sworn himself to the Qun revealed that Viddasala was feeding lyrium to Saarebas, which Hissrad confirms is the exact opposite of her role. There is also the Darvaarad, where multiple pieces of evidence are found. There's a note from a guard documenting that Viddasala's agents are not properly indicating where they found the artifacts they're bringing back, even after being warned to do so. Viddasala also brought red lyrium into their borders when the Qunari alliance was built upon a mission to keep red lyrium from spreading outside the south, and she was experimenting with it. This must have been a secret operation unknown to the Triumvirate because if it were a simple matter of trying to find ways to combat red lyrium, then they would have been working with the Inquisition on this in Emprise Du Lion. There is also the fact that Viddasala will order her followers to kill Hissrad along with the others in the Shattered Library. There is also a note found there showing that Viddasala had to convince some dissenters to trust in her plan. There's also a note in the Deep Roads calling for the Viddathari to eliminate Hissrad, though this is also crossed out. And there is some meta-gaming evidence, in that Viddasala will attempt to call on a Tal-Vashoth Iron Bull to betray the Inquisitor and fight along side the Qunari. This shows that she was desperate at this point because her plot had been exposed to the Triumvirate via Josephine. There is more evidence, but this should prove that there was a lot of it in the game. It was just poor writing that Hissrad doesn't acknowledge the facts right in front of him.

[Dai Grepher]

Another, more convincing point in the Inquisition's favour is that the Dragon's Breath plan was going to take out the leaders of all major nations simultaneously. They would have blown the Orlesians and Fereldans to kingdom come either way (and probably the Inquisition at Skyhold), and it's actually only because the Inquisition was there that the plan was foiled. All of Thedas should be giving you thanks, not ordering you to disband.

 

Right, but I think the main gripe of the nobility was that the Inquisition allowed them entry to the south through the alliance. And Teagan loudly proclaims the Qunari action a result of "this Solas" provoking them in the first place.

 

All of Thedas should be doing that to begin with, yet there they are asking you to disband or else merge with some Orlesian politicians. I mean, pointing out that you saved Denerim from getting blown halfway to the Fade should have been enough to shut Teagan up.

 

The whole exalted council premise was just terrible to begin with, and it was only in the game as forced plot to gather all the characters in one place.

[Akiza]

Solas is smug now... but when I release the Forbidden Ones, the Titans and the Evanuris on him... the little bald rat won't be smiling anymore.  

mmmm i doubt that the Evanuris were better than him....and they are probably even more powerful than Solas,who know how much magic they absorbed by now in the fade world.

[SwobyJ]

I don't know enough about the plot of Trespasser to answer the rest of this, but the Warden spends much of Origins traveling on the Imperial Highway created by Tevinter. True, he'll need to take some backroads while going to Dalish camps or Soldier's Peak or such, but the destinations a human would ordinarily find important are probably along a highway.

 

That's true, but I internally accounted for that. Yes, they're not going as slow as they could be without those roads, but its still slower to go the ways the Warden did. The Warden is also a fugitive and that may account for the campsites in the woods instead of inns. They have no horses/carriages and such either.

 

Both stories don't have the characters meandering around though, yeah. They do try to get to destinations as quickly as their situations and resources allow, and the concept of the Imperial Highway helps a lot in that.

 

I'd think the Highway may be kept up in Orlais better than it is in Ferelden, but that's just my speculation.

[SwobyJ]

Make no mistake, Solas is the main character in DAI.  It's his story.  All others are merely accessories to Solas.  The Inquisitor, Inquisition, and everyone who is a part of the Inquisition exist because Solas woke and gave his orb to Corypheus.  All other plots elements, such as mages v. templars are secondary to the breach that began with Solas.  Even Corypheus is a Solas pawn.  From the ending that hobbles the Inquisitor and disbands or changes the Inquisition, all is expendable except for Solas and Solas is all powerfu and unavoidablel.

 

Think about fighting him with your character's one arm, then maybe try praying to him.  Have your characters beg.  Whatever will work will only work if the lead writer allows players to remove or diminish his seemingly favored character, the main character in this plot where we are there for Solas' story.  Given that Solas is the ultimate in all-powerful, all-knowing Mary Sues I'll be surprised at anything more difficult for him than a broken orb.  It'll be as he wants it to be and in the end, the revelation will reveal that Solas is and always was wonderful and we accessory characters were just too unimaginative and uninformed to realize.

 

DAI is the Inquisitor's story and Trespasser only brings Solas more to the forefront than before.

 

Lern more writing. A character having more knowledge and interaction with events than the protagonist still does not make them the protagonist.

 

I don't see anything that makes Solas a Mary Sue/Gary Stu. This is laughable.

 

DA4+ is more likely to have players see from his POV, but 'wonderful', he will never be.