757 réponses à ce sujet

[kal_reegar]

There is nothing wrong in DA elves. Or at least, nothing that can be rationally claimed.

 

 

Personally I usually don't like elven companions.

 

Zevran tried to kill me, so I killed him. Good character, though.

Velanna tried to kill me, so I killed her.

Merril was unbearably naive and a cry baby, and she messed with demons and blood magic . She betrayed me and sided with mages, so I killed her.

Sera was simply an idiot, talking with her is pointless and tiresome. I send her away. The same can be sad for Tallis, their sense of humor makes me want to

 

On the other hand, Fenris was my favourite companion EVER. Solas was also very interesting, a great character. He will probably end up dead too, sadly.

[Serza]

Too perfect to pass up.

 

I see your TL;DR and raise you a Tactical Facepalm:

 

[Tidus]

Elf hate? I thought everyone liked DA elves. They're the best race. Now those Elder Scroll elves on the other hand, they're a bunch of arrogant, stuck up assholes.

 

The only Elves that I didn't like was the Elven clan in DA:2.. Those are supposedly the Dalish HOF clan and they look,more like aliens instead of how they looked in DA:O. Still Merrill becomes my second mage  and Hawke's sweetie-for some reason I favor a mage in DA:2..

 

 

 

Kal _ Reegar, In my first two DA:O games I killed Zevran but,in my third game I found he can become a strong rogue and a loyal  companion simply by giving him a gold bar,a bottle of Antivan whine and later Antivan Dalish leather gloves found in Haven.

 

In DA:A Velanna becomes my main mage. She was confused and  my warden doesn't kill his kind unless he/she is forced to.. He/she even allows that female Elven guard in Denerim sent to stop him/her to live.

 

 

 

In DA:I I enjoy Sera's remarks.

 

My warden or Inquisitor only kills those that needs killing. My warden doesn't kill without just reason. 

[straykat]

Elves have been hated from the beginning.

 

"Oh no. Not another ****** elf!" -- Hugo Dyson, ripping into Tolkien at one of his readings..

 

 

To be serious though, the whole lost glory thing was OK the first time. It gets a little old after a dozen.. or a hundred times. Like the story above, even the originator had his critics. But it's even worse when every other fantasy writer copies his basic concept. As if it's something he grabbed from the Ether, and all elves must be this way.

 

Funnily, Gaider was tasked with creating something more D&D like afaik.. But their elves aren't exactly Tolkien-like. And there are a lot of varieties. I like them.

[Madfox11]

Considering the origin of the elves in Western European Mythology (the source material Tolkien used) is in actual gods according to at least some theories it should not come as a surprise they feel that way in the majority of fantasy. Than again, I don't dislike any race on principal and I prefer people to call an apple an apple* as opposed to something else.

 

* I have never been a big fan of renaming traditional fantasy just to avoid the associations which you then use anyway...

[MaxQuartiroli]

Elf hate? I thought everyone liked DA elves. They're the best race.

 

Not everyone. I honestly miss the elves from Forgotten Realms setting, and I miss Drow even more. They were awesome foes. From BG to NWN elves and half-elves have always been my favourite races. DA elves, I don't know, I just can't connect with them. Maybe it's just my fault for being too tied to that kind of elves from older games.

[straykat]

Considering the origin of the elves in Western European Mythology (the source material Tolkien used) is in actual gods according to at least some theories it should not come as a surprise they feel that way in the majority of fantasy. Than again, I don't dislike any race on principal and I prefer people to call an apple an apple* as opposed to something else.

 

* I have never been a big fan of renaming traditional fantasy just to avoid the associations which you then use anyway...

 

What is traditional fantasy? I think it's kind of an oxymoron.

[GoldenGail3]

I like the elves in DA. The elves in Skryim? 'Trying too much. Grand glorious empire that threats all of Skryim! Oh the Horror!' The DA elves are not like that, their probaly more orindary then most of the other elves. The Thalmor would laugh at DA Elves.... The Dark Elfs are the ones that probaly most relate to DA's Elves. Dark Elves are sort of not respected in Skryim but can hold respectable careers, such as being the protector of one of the Arls. I'm glad that Elves aren't angel like creatures that live in paradise (like Tolkiens elves) and have all sorts of magical things that make them so graceful and pefrect beings.

Yeah, their orindary people trying to get by in DA. Their way more believable then the arrogant Thalmor empire in Skyrim. I like Dark Elves, though, they aren't treated baldly but not good either.

[Ieldra]

I don't hate elves, but I hate some of the tropes that come with them, starting with Tolkien. Immortality is such a burden, yeah (*scoffs*), and in spite of that and some other advantages humans are supposed to still have the better fate? Bah. Portray elves as better, wiser, more badass. and immortal for all I care, but don't be a bigot and claim these aren't extremely desirable traits. In Tolkien's world, I'd give away my humanity for being an elf at any time.

 

In DA, not so much, thankfully. Elves had their time of glory, when they were, again, more capable than humans in every imaginable way, but at the price of being slaves to immortal god-kings with super-magical powers. I would think twice before switching to be an elf in Thedas, even in the times when Elvhenan ruled.

 

The main problem I see with elves is that they're a part of a very standardized fantasy setting. I'm sick of that, I want more imaginative settings. The quanri are at least interesting, and both elven and dwarven cultures are somewhat anti-stereotypical, but they're still elves and dwarves after all.   

[Aren]

Honestly i believe that most players who dislike the elves of DA dislike them for another reason,basically your point 10.

10) Whenever there is an ancient disaster that is basically your average main quest to resolve of a DA game,you know that the elves probably did it.

[Almostfaceman]

The problems with elves in these games get traced back to the story archs and writers making them.  Most of them do tend to act superior and yet they make endlessly horrible decisions whether hit be alienage types or the dalish.  The Dalish are especailly stupid.  I like some elves, I almost always play one sooner or later but thei bad rep is due to how they are portrayed in these story archs.

 

Eh, the same thing can be said about any race, doesn't make sense to pick out elves for this one. 

[Tidus]

Every game and just about every book I read the biggest problem the Elves face is the Shemlins..

 

Shems mistreat, kill and rape the city Elves like its a sport but,the Shems fear the Dalish Elves because they are armed and very dangerous and the Shems know they're not to be trifled with. In simple terms if you have Dalish blood on your hands you will face the consequences. Some Arls purge a Alienage for any reason real or imagine.  Loghain sold Elves into slavery in order to finance his civil war. 

 

In "The Last Flight' the Hero is a elven mage that finds Griffin eggs. The real mother of King Alistair is Fiona a former GW Elven mage and Queen Celene's  lover and personal confident is Elven.

 

Many of the Greys is Elven.

 

Why doesn't the Shems leave the Elves alone to live their life?

[kal_reegar]

The only Elves that I didn't like was the Elven clan in DA:2.. Those are supposedly the Dalish HOF clan and they look,more like aliens instead of how they looked in DA:O. Still Merrill becomes my second mage  and Hawke's sweetie-for some reason I favor a mage in DA:2..

 

 

 

Kal _ Reegar, In my first two DA:O games I killed Zevran but,in my third game I found he can become a strong rogue and a loyal  companion simply by giving him a gold bar,a bottle of Antivan whine and later Antivan Dalish leather gloves found in Haven.

 

In DA:A Velanna becomes my main mage. She was confused and  my warden doesn't kill his kind unless he/she is forced to.. He/she even allows that female Elven guard in Denerim sent to stop him/her to live.

 

 

 

In DA:I I enjoy Sera's remarks.

 

My warden or Inquisitor only kills those that needs killing. My warden doesn't kill without just reason. 

 

 

I have one, simple, mandatory rule: if you, in the full possession of your faculties, try to kill me, sooner or later I'll kill you. Unless: there is a greater (far greater) good at stake (for example, the stability of Ferelden.). In that case, your death might be postponed. But not  avoided.

You can be an interesting character (like Zev) or a super cool badass worthy of my respect (like the Arishok). It makes no difference. The rule applies to everybody. It's a matter of equity and justice, and respect for the hundreds of poor, stupid bandits and rebels and minions that couldnt' benefit from my clemency.

[BroBear Berbil]

I have a default level of disdain for Elves based on the people who like them. When I think of Elven fandoms I think of Celtic Woman, and cringeworthy Mary Sue characters that have incandescent eyes and massive hair with clipping issues. Compound the previous description with social justice and you have my thoughts on fans of Dragon Age's Elves from the first two games.

 

Dragon Age is the only series where I really disliked Elves based on lore or gameplay, and Inquisition cleared most of that up by answering a lot of lore questions on the ancient Elves and shedding light on ambiguous events like Red Crossing. It gave much needed nuance to their history so when you encounter some self-righteous Dalish you at least know they're only half-right, or even less than that. Honestly, prior to Inquisition, if I had to point at one specific thing that just turned me off of Elves it would be Velanna and at least you don't encounter her level of hostility from any of Inquisition's Elves either.

 

Now I find Elves interesting and it's enjoyable to play one; Elf PC feels canon to me. Dwarves are still my favorite race by a large margin and I'm hoping they get the same kind of lore treatment in the future with some answers on the connection with Titans.

[Almostfaceman]

I like the concept of the Tolkien elves. It's simply the idea of mankind idealized, living up to its true potential before a fall of some sort. That's why I like the direction the Dragon Age elves are going. If one had that potential and lost it, that means at some point, it can be regained. 

[Medhia_Nox]

-  I liked the original concept behind City Elves.  I liked elves under the heel of humanity.  It was fresh and new.  I liked the ghettos, the callbacks to ancient traditions like the tree in every Alienage, I liked how humans mistreat them and how their communities were anything but perfect.

 

Then... after one game of DA's "world"... social justice just HAD to pop up.  All of it ending in a bald rat elf-god messiah totally undoing anything I ever found interesting about the City Elves.

 

- The Dalish I have always despised, but mainly because I am a student of tribal cultures and they are the absolute worst tropes of "tribals" that are used.  For me, they're a gross insult to anything even remotely animistic or naturalistic.

 

I knew they were wrong because of this, and I actually feel vindicated with DA:I.  The Dalish culture is a lie because it's built on a culture that did everything it could to enslave nature (through magic instead of technology).  And just as our world breeds unnatural naturalists based off twisted principles of what is "animal" or "plant" friendly - so to with the Dalish.

 

- As for elves "in general" - their "new" connections to magic, the Evanuris, etc. bore me to tears.  I am someone who likes human issues to be discussed in his fantasy.  I like my fantasy to be a vehicle for that discussion - not an excuse for me outrageous weirdness and poor storytelling.  

 

I believe my hatred of the elves will only grow as they try to make Solas a sympathetic character which, to me, flies in the face of everything they've portrayed about him so far. 

[TK514]

I love TES elves, especially the Thalmor, but hate DA elves. Hate them and most of their supporters who dwell on that website which shall not be named.

Mostly has to do with how their fans hate on humans and think it's boring to play them and their collective special snowflake syndrome.

Hold up, there's a DA Elf fan website?

[BroBear Berbil]

Hold up, there's a DA Elf fan website?

 

He was probably referring to Tumblr.

[Almostfaceman]

-  I liked the original concept behind City Elves.  I liked elves under the heel of humanity.  It was fresh and new.  I liked the ghettos, the callbacks to ancient traditions like the tree in every Alienage, I liked how humans mistreat them and how their communities were anything but perfect.

 

Then... after one game of DA's "world"... social justice just HAD to pop up.  All of it ending in a bald rat elf-god messiah totally undoing anything I ever found interesting about the City Elves.

 

- The Dalish I have always despised, but mainly because I am a student of tribal cultures and they are the absolute worst tropes of "tribals" that are used.  For me, they're a gross insult to anything even remotely animistic or naturalistic.

 

I knew they were wrong because of this, and I actually feel vindicated with DA:I.  The Dalish culture is a lie because it's built on a culture that did everything it could to enslave nature (through magic instead of technology).  And just as our world breeds unnatural naturalists based off twisted principles of what is "animal" or "plant" friendly - so to with the Dalish.

 

- As for elves "in general" - their "new" connections to magic, the Evanuris, etc. bore me to tears.  I am someone who likes human issues to be discussed in his fantasy.  I like my fantasy to be a vehicle for that discussion - not an excuse for me outrageous weirdness and poor storytelling.  

 

I believe my hatred of the elves will only grow as they try to make Solas a sympathetic character which, to me, flies in the face of everything they've portrayed about him so far. 

 

It's odd that for something you hate, you sure do like talking about it. 

[Korva]

You forgot one point, OP: Most elves don't look or act "macho", therefor there are fit only to be hated and ridiculed as sissy-pansy-f*ggy-prettyboys in the eyes of some people. I don't really hang out in the DA fandom so I don't know how often that crops up here, but I've definitely seen this attitude quite a bit in various other contexts, more or less thinly veiled.

 

The accusations of "Mary Sue"-dom are often true to some degree -- but at the same time it's a funny accusation to make since the real Mary Sues in most settings I know are the humans. DA doesn't do the human-w*nk as much as Mass Effect seems to do -- one reason why I could never get into that series -- but it still hits the generic humans-rule-elves-and-dwarves-are-dying-and-done notes which half-bore and half-annoy me.

 

Personally, I don't care for DA elves one way or another, lore-wise at least. Fandom attitudes tend not to influence my opinion on a species or culture much, so while while both pro- and con-elf views do have some annoying tendencies among DA players, for me the overall feeling of "meh" results from not seeing anything of real interest there ... plus the terrible body models. While I meant to play an elf to see if that sparks something, I just can't stomach looking at them. The female human body model is too scrawny to look like a believable heavy-duty adventurer to me as it is, but the even worse "underfed babyteen" elven look combined with the general female posture issues (either sticking her T&A out or slouching like a gorilla) makes female elves look way too off-putting.

[berelinde]

If you browse the forum on any given day, you will find 8 "Elves are the only worthwhile race to play" threads and no threads at all about the worthwhile qualities of other races. It's toxic. If you like playing dwarves, qunari, or - Maker forbid - humans, and if you dare to post about it, you will soon be "shown" the "error" of your ways, completely ignoring the fact that other races are part of the world, that each race has its own lore, culture, and traditions, and that each race has a number of entirely worthwhile qualities to recommend them. And if you are posting that you enjoy playing as a human, well, you're going to be buried under a metric ton of hate, so you should probably prepare for it. So fandom persecution is probably part of it for a lot of people. Yeah, players should base their opinions on the game itself and not the fandom, but "Oh, great, more effing elf shite" is an understandable reaction.

 

And yes, it is possible to play Dragon Age Inquisition as something other than a Dalish female romancing Solas and still enjoy the game. There is no official canon Inquisitor, so Cadash is every bit as relevant to history as Lavellan.

 

The game itself does tend to neglect the lore of other races in favor of all things elven, which is a shame. Dwarven lore is every bit as fascinating as elven lore, but we've barely scratched the surface of it. It's hard to separate human lore from that of the Chantry because they tend to be lumped together (and promptly dismissed), but Andrasteism isn't the only thing humanity has going for it. The nuances among the various sub-cultures are there, but you really have to dig for it. One of the things I enjoyed most about Jaws of Hakkon was that it explored a culture that had little or nothing to do with Andrastian Thedas.

 

TL;DR: Nobody likes to feel marginalized. You can't really expect someone to embrace your choices after repeatedly condemning theirs.

[Tidus]

The reason I don't like playing as a Shem because humans very nature is to destroy  and hate. So far in just about every RPG game or fantasy book I've read the route of the problem was a human.

 

But,the bottom line is it's only a game or book and therefore we usually pick sides and my side has always been Elven whenever possible..Even Tidus started as a Elven rogue in D&D and Kamine (KAYmin) has been Elven either a rogue or mage.

 

 

I prefer a city elf or a Dwarf brand as my warden in DA:O or a Dalish elf in DA:I.

[Illegitimus]

-  I liked the original concept behind City Elves.  I liked elves under the heel of humanity.  It was fresh and new.  I liked the ghettos, the callbacks to ancient traditions like the tree in every Alienage, I liked how humans mistreat them and how their communities were anything but perfect.

 

Then... after one game of DA's "world"... social justice just HAD to pop up.  

 

Uh...what?  "Social justice" is inherent in creating oppressed minorities.  

[ComedicSociopathy]

The reason I don't like playing as a Shem because humans very nature is to destroy  and hate. So far in just about every RPG game or fantasy book I've read the route of the problem was a human.

 

Um... hate and destruction aren't traits exclusive to humanity. Elves, dwarves and qunari can do it just as well. Also, the creation of Veil and the destruction it inflicted upon the elves, that was an elf's fault. No human was responsible for that catastrophe. 

[berelinde]

I'm guessing that Tidus didn't play Trespasser... or read the scroll at the end of the "Knights' Tomb" quest. The Second Exalted March was a total mess from one end to the other, but it began because a Dalish clan attacked an unarmed human because the human was carrying a bouquet of flowers and the Dalish thought it was a weapon. I'm not saying that the humans were completely blameless, but history has given them more than their due.