757 réponses à ce sujet

[In Exile]

Note that from the outside, Hawke's story looks like a power fantasy .... the refugee rusing to become the Champion of Kirkwall, blah blah blah. It's from Hawke's POV that it looks like a failure, except in the sense that survival itself is a success.

Is DA:I a similar subversion, in the end?

 

I think DA:I is very much the same kind of subversion, except they swapped the one thing they took out from DA:O to DA2 - the fact that the PC's murdering everyone works out great in the immediate term and resolves conflicts. DA2's biggest subversion - which I think most players did not accept - is that killing someone can't fix a problem. 

 

DA:I also reconstructs the tropes it deconstructs, and that's pretty different from DA2. Like the Chose One trope. You're not chosen - it's a fluke you get the anchor. But that doesn't mean - and the game makes this point repeatedly - that whether this is actually the case doesn't really matter. 

[Shechinah]

Or take Cailan, Cailan who the character is constantly encourage to support, he's the king of Fereldan, and he never bothered in the middle of all this to end this kind of completely bad thing.

 

Cailan was horribly sheltered to my knowledge as seems to be indicated by how he reacts when he hears about the Alienage from Tabris and by how he cites old stories of heroism and glory in regards to what it will be like to face the darkspawn on the battlefield.  
 

[Shechinah]

Well no Heimdall the alternative is to play a different game or engage a different media that doesn't have as bad a society. See what I mean? I'm just saying what I said in the first post, DA can be fun to play and stuff, but while the Circle-Chantry stuff is pretty bad, it feels like they tried to justify and deal with that issue more substantially.

 

The Elvish situation in DA is a toxic combination of no justification and no response to it.

 

There's the Dalish boon which grants some land to the Dalish to cultivate and keep as their own. This still remains as Mary Kirby cited the boon as being why Ashalle is not present with the Sabrae Clan in Dragon Age II which suggests it may have been given to Lanaya's Clan for their contribution in the battle against the Archdemon.  

 

There's Varric granting the elven Inquisitor a title and estate of their own to provide some strength to the Lavellan clan working with the Wycome and to Istimaethoriel who sits on the Wycome City Council in addition to a city elf.   

 

 

 

 

[Shechinah]

 Or when Alistair becomes King, he couldn't say, oh and lets end this horrible abomination of mistreatment for no reason.

 

Alistair supposed does, to a degree; "With the slavers shut down in the Alienage, the lot of the city-born elves improved for a time. The new king even named the local elder to his personal court- a scandal amongst the humans, but a sign of new to the elves." - Epilogue (Origins)
 

[Medhia_Nox]

@In Exile:  Varathras hates all humans because of what a few did... that's racism. Velanna hates all humans because of what a few did... that's racism.  Abelas and Solas simply consider humans vermin and worthy of wiping out... that's supreme racism. 

 

And a million other Dalish have chips on their shoulders because someone told them a story about how humans ruined their lives...

 

When you're entire culture is based off blaming someone else for your problems... that, is also, racism. 

[Shechinah]

Abelas and Solas simply consider humans vermin and worthy of wiping out... that's supreme racism. 

 

I believe Abelas sees modern elves as he sees humans and Solas considered no modern race to be people and even if his opinion of the modern races changes, he still intends to carry through with his plan so it is not only modern humans he considers sacrificing for an old world. 
 

[nightscrawl]

In Dragon Age, you defend, support, make companions, and otherwise to everything within your power to protect Fereldan, a country that for no apparent reason, engages in substantial violence and venom against a group of people out of apparently nothing else than base hatreds.

You do realize that the whole point of DAO, and winning it, is that the Blight is defeated before it really got the chance to get going full-speed. Ferelden was the sacrifice for the rest of the world in that case, and even by the time of DAI it's still not completely recovered.

We didn't technically save Ferelden, even though we are The Hero of Ferelden. We saved the world. (Although I suppose you can look at its not being completely obliterated as "saving" it.)

Perhaps the writers can have more nuanced dialogue options. I'm always for a greater variety of options to allow the player to express and have the opportunity to role-play without having to rely so much on head-canon. BUT the DA series is heavily story driven, so they can't have too much variation and still continue with the series. Honestly, your belief that they should is not reasonable or practical from a game development standpoint.

 

The greatest, most impactful option across all three games continues to be the choice to let the Warden PC die. And what do we have to show for it in the succeeding games? Spare mentions of the living Warden PC, being "disappeared," searching for a cure to the Calling, being anywhere but present. All because of the possibility that they could very well be dead (in addition to troubles representing a formerly un-voiced PC). Hell, even in the DA Keep's default world state the Warden -- a Dalish female warrior -- is dead.

 

If anything, I think the DA series has tried to say that, regardless of your intention to do so, sweeping changes will likely not come about as a result of the actions of a single person. Our heroes save the day by killing the big bad, and that's great. But as we've seen from the epilogues in all three games, none of the changes the hero tries to enact have remained. Even the mage/templar issue took two games and an entire novel to resolve. You can look at it in a defeatist manner and say, "Why should I even bother?" or you can say that that is a pretty damn close representation of the frustrations incurred by trying to solve problems in the real world as well.

 

This is one reason I do NOT want our DA4 PC to be responsible for the downfall of Tevinter, or the instigator of a slave revolt, or something equally as influential.

[nightscrawl]

DA2's biggest subversion - which I think most players did not accept - is that killing someone can't fix a problem.

I dunno... killing the Arishok seemed to fix that problem.

But DA2's biggest problem with the killing was that it was just so damned excessive. Perhaps it was the endless waves of mobs, the way fights were designed, or the few joking references to Hawke being a killing machine. That said, I did find Dorian's one DAI line to be quite amusing, considering that: "If it's a trap then we escape and kill everyone! You're good at that."

[ModernAcademic]

Cailan was horribly sheltered to my knowledge as seems to be indicated by how he reacts when he hears about the Alienage from Tabris and by how he cites old stories of heroism and glory in regards to what it will be like to face the darkspawn on the battlefield.  
 

 

That was my impression of the king as well. He was so sheltered he believed the Wardens were great heroes of legend, when most of the conscript are former criminals who were given a second chance. Most of them, not all of them, of course. There are many honorable people who, willingly or not, join the Order, such as Ser Gilmore was going to.

[DebatableBubble]

That was my impression of the king as well. He was so sheltered he believed the Wardens were great heroes of legend, when most of the conscript are former criminals who were given a second chance. Most of them, not all of them, of course. There are many honorable people who, willingly or not, join the Order, such as Ser Gilmore was going to.

Well, they are heroes. It's just that they do some pretty unsavory stuff, too.

[LOLandStuff]

Cailan even took his family's best sword from the display case just in case an Archdemon showed up. No wonder he had no clue of what was going on in his kingdom. It didn't seem like politics were his strongest suit. He just left everything to Anora to deal with while he lived the fantasy of whatever he fancied at the moment.

[ModernAcademic]

You are going to have to provide citations for your point about Dalish Clans regularly looting and killing, because considering the nature of Human treatment of Elves, they could possibly fall under self-defense, depending on the nature of the "traveling" humans and where they were traveling, and dozens of other considerations.

 

As to the point about the Dales falling, the idea was they were separating in order to re-establish their culture. Neutrality actually has advantages in certain conflicts, depending on the exact situation, it's not always so simple. At worst, you could say it was a strategic mistake, not some kind of abandonment, and considering the treatment of the Orlesians of the Elves during that time it's kind of easy to imagine why they might of been hesitant, why aid those who were just as likely to kill them?

 

The part about blood rituals and stuff technically fall under rumors, derived from human sources no less.

 

1) Play Origins and talk to one of the Elven hunters after finishing Nature of the Beast. The hunter, a DALISH, will bluntly admit to you some clans actively hunt down, kill and loot caravans of travelling human merchants. 

 

2) Play Jaws of Hakkon again and read the Codexes. The Dalish broke their promise to help Orlais against the Blight. The elven armies watched as Montsimmard was invaded by darkspawn and burned to the ground. Had Ameridan survived while solving the problem posed by the Avvar and Hakkon, he would've united the Dalish and led them to march alongside humans.

 

Ameridan, the only Dalish rational and clear-minded enough to understand it's stupid to let humans die in a Blight because of racism. What a pity many other elves are not as evolved as he was and prefer to blame humans for all their misfortunes instead of being clever and brave like Ameridan. 

 

3) Those are not rumors. Play Inquisition again and head for the Temple of Mythal with Solas in your party. Click on the three Mosaics with depictions of the Elven gods and Solas will tell you of the blood rituals performed by Falon'Din. 

 

So it's not a human source, as you can see.

 

Two elves openly admitting the flaws and crimes commited by the elven people. One admits Arlathan was already a decadent civilization by the time elves like Falon'Din were mistakenly considered gods. The other admits there are Dalish clans - in PLURAL - who are no more than bandits preying on innocent people. 

Elves are as mediocre as humans, dwarves and any other race. The fact they didn't lift a finger to save innocents from a darkspawn invasion shows their true colours. Not even their immortality was inherent to their race. Otherwise, they would still be immortal after the Veil was created.

 

The way I see it as a player, they brought their fate upon themselves and will continue to suffer by their own hands until they learn they are arrogant, violent and wrong in their assumptions about their past, their identity as a people and learn to improve their relationship with the rest of the world.

[Dabrikishaw]

You do realize that the whole point of DAO, and winning it, is that the Blight is defeated before it really got the chance to get going full-speed. Ferelden was the sacrifice for the rest of the world in that case, and even by the time of DAI it's still not completely recovered.

We didn't technically save Ferelden, even though we are The Hero of Ferelden. We saved the world. (Although I suppose you can look at its not being completely obliterated as "saving" it.)

Perhaps the writers can have more nuanced dialogue options. I'm always for a greater variety of options to allow the player to express and have the opportunity to role-play without having to rely so much on head-canon. BUT the DA series is heavily story driven, so they can't have too much variation and still continue with the series. Honestly, your belief that they should is not reasonable or practical from a game development standpoint.

 

The greatest, most impactful option across all three games continues to be the choice to let the Warden PC die. And what do we have to show for it in the succeeding games? Spare mentions of the living Warden PC, being "disappeared," searching for a cure to the Calling, being anywhere but present. All because of the possibility that they could very well be dead (in addition to troubles representing a formerly un-voiced PC). Hell, even in the DA Keep's default world state the Warden -- a Dalish female warrior -- is dead.

 

If anything, I think the DA series has tried to say that, regardless of your intention to do so, sweeping changes will likely not come about as a result of the actions of a single person. Our heroes save the day by killing the big bad, and that's great. But as we've seen from the epilogues in all three games, none of the changes the hero tries to enact have remained. Even the mage/templar issue took two games and an entire novel to resolve. You can look at it in a defeatist manner and say, "Why should I even bother?" or you can say that that is a pretty damn close representation of the frustrations incurred by trying to solve problems in the real world as well.

 

This is one reason I do NOT want our DA4 PC to be responsible for the downfall of Tevinter, or the instigator of a slave revolt, or something equally as influential.

It may have worked out as a representation of reality, but I'm more convinced the changes the characters can make being ignored is due more to the budget Bioware needs to work with over everything else.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

@In Exile:  Varathras hates all humans because of what a few did... that's racism. Velanna hates all humans because of what a few did... that's racism.  Abelas and Solas simply consider humans vermin and worthy of wiping out... that's supreme racism. 

 

And a million other Dalish have chips on their shoulders because someone told them a story about how humans ruined their lives...

 

When you're entire culture is based off blaming someone else for your problems... that, is also, racism. 

 

And also because humans eventually always try to drive them away from wherever they are.

 

It's like saying the only reason people fear mages is because of what the Chantry told them, and not the actual dangers of magic.

 

 

1) Play Origins and talk to one of the Elven hunters after finishing Nature of the Beast. The hunter, a DALISH, will bluntly admit to you some clans actively hunt down, kill and loot caravans of travelling human merchants. 

 

2) Play Jaws of Hakkon again and read the Codexes. The Dalish broke their promise to help Orlais against the Blight. The elven armies watched as Montsimmard was invaded by darkspawn and burned to the ground. Had Ameridan survived while solving the problem posed by the Avvar and Hakkon, he would've united the Dalish and led them to march alongside humans.

 

Ameridan, the only Dalish rational and clear-minded enough to understand it's stupid to let humans die in a Blight because of racism. What a pity many other elves are not as evolved as he was and prefer to blame humans for all their misfortunes instead of being clever and brave like Ameridan. 

 

3) Those are not rumors. Play Inquisition again and head for the Temple of Mythal with Solas in your party. Click on the three Mosaics with depictions of the Elven gods and Solas will tell you of the blood rituals performed by Falon'Din. 

 

So it's not a human source, as you can see.

 

Two elves openly admitting the flaws and crimes commited by the elven people. One admits Arlathan was already a decadent civilization by the time elves like Falon'Din were mistakenly considered gods. The other admits there are Dalish clans - in PLURAL - who are no more than bandits preying on innocent people. 

Elves are as mediocre as humans, dwarves and any other race. The fact they didn't lift a finger to save innocents from a darkspawn invasion shows their true colours. Not even their immortality was inherent to their race. Otherwise, they would still be immortal after the Veil was created.

 

The way I see it as a player, they brought their fate upon themselves and will continue to suffer by their own hands until they learn they are arrogant, violent and wrong in their assumptions about their past, their identity as a people and learn to improve their relationship with the rest of the world.

 

 

1. Some do, others don't. There is one of the elves in the in the Dalish Origin that is aghast at the notion of resorting to banditry.

 

2. Abandoning innocents to the darkspawn is common during Blights. Human nations have done it all the time. Orlais did it during the Fourth Blight and Tevinter did it during the Second, Third and Fourth. And no human nation feels compelled to provide any assistance to the Anderfels or the dwarves when the Blights are over. There really isn't any reason to conclude the elves have a uniquely racist reason for letting the Blight kill people when everybody else does it too. Ameridan even states reason for the Dales' anitpathy towards Orlais: because they felt they were acting no better than the Tevinter Imperium.

 

3. I don't think Solas mentions anything about blood rituals. I think that's still a Tevinter specific eccentricity. Solas only talks about blood in such a way to describe just how much Falon'din loved killing people.

 

Elves have plenty of reason to blame humans' actions for their current problems. Aside from the fact that the Imperium kept them as slaves for 8 centuries, there is also the fact that, after the Exalted March of the Dales, Orlesian armies scattered them from their homeland and replaced the population with their own. And to this day humans continue to prevent them from settling down anywhere. The Alienages prove that humans don't have a good track record when it comes to treating elves well. If the Dalish didn't exist, the City Elves would not be any better off.

 

Also their immortality was explicitly just a part of being elven. Just like having the potential for magic is a natural part of being human or elven or qunari. Just because a strong connection to the fade is required for that doesn't mean it's no part of what they are.

[In Exile]

And also because humans eventually always try to drive them away from wherever they are.

 

It's like saying the only reason people fear mages is because of what the Chantry told them, and not the actual dangers of magic.

 

No. That's not how it works. That's racism. That's exactly what makes it super racist. Some humans might try to drive them off. That makes it understandable that the Dalish would attack those specific humans. It does not justify them killing some other humans and taking their stuff. In fact, it doesn't justify taking their stuff at all. 

 

That's like saying Orlais was in the right to execute a baker in the Dales after the their war because some other unrelated elf gleefully arranged to have Montsimmard burn. 

 

In fact, it's exactly this kind of racism that was the root cause for why there was a war between Orlais and the Dales in the first place. On both sides. 

 

1. Some do, others don't. There is one of the elves in the in the Dalish Origin that is aghast at the notion of resorting to banditry.

 

That's shifting the goal-post. Asellus said no Dalish were bandits. 

 

 

2. Abandoning innocents to the darkspawn is common during Blights. Human nations have done it all the time. Orlais did it during the Fourth Blight and Tevinter did it during the Second, Third and Fourth. And no human nation feels compelled to provide any assistance to the Anderfels or the dwarves when the Blights are over. There really isn't any reason to conclude the elves have a uniquely racist reason for letting the Blight kill people when everybody else does it too. Ameridan even states reason for the Dales' anitpathy towards Orlais: because they felt they were acting no better than the Tevinter Imperium.

 

There's absolutely a reason to conclude the Dales did it for racist reasons, and that's because Ameridan tells you they did it for racist reasons. It wasn't antipathy for Orlais. It was antipathy for humans, and it wasn't even universal. 

 

Let's put it this way: it's not de facto racist for someone to refuse to serve food to another person, until they say they're doing it because "F" the "N" word. 

 

 

Elves have plenty of reason to blame humans' actions for their current problems. Aside from the fact that the Imperium kept them as slaves for 8 centuries, there is also the fact that, after the Exalted March of the Dales, Orlesian armies scattered them from their homeland and replaced the population with their own. And to this day humans continue to prevent them from settling down anywhere. The Alienages prove that humans don't have a good track record when it comes to treating elves well. If the Dalish didn't exist, the City Elves would not be any better off.

 

That's super racist! Elves have plenty of reasons to hate the Tevinters. They have totally independent reasons to hate Orlais. And they have totally independent reasons to hate, say, Ferelden. 

 

More to the point, you're still glossing over the entire history of the war with Orlais. The Dales invaded first. They were winning. They committed an act of war that would, without a doubt, IRL start WWIII if it happened between, say, the U.S. and Russia. 

[Seraphim24]

Alistair supposed does, to a degree; "With the slavers shut down in the Alienage, the lot of the city-born elves improved for a time. The new king even named the local elder to his personal court- a scandal amongst the humans, but a sign of new to the elves." - Epilogue (Origins)
 

 

With the slavers shut down in the Alienage, not the shutting down of the Alienage.

[Seraphim24]

1) Play Origins and talk to one of the Elven hunters after finishing Nature of the Beast. The hunter, a DALISH, will bluntly admit to you some clans actively hunt down, kill and loot caravans of travelling human merchants. 

 

That's still very vague, considering human society in general basically is bent on destroying Elves, it's kind of reasonable to conclude they are essentially on war. What if those humans are very Elf-hateful and would immediately tell the Fereldan army of the Elves in the forest and bring their full force to bear?

 

This example is too nebulous to be anything, it's possibly just self-defense.

2) Play Jaws of Hakkon again and read the Codexes. The Dalish broke their promise to help Orlais against the Blight. The elven armies watched as Montsimmard was invaded by darkspawn and burned to the ground. Had Ameridan survived while solving the problem posed by the Avvar and Hakkon, he would've united the Dalish and led them to march alongside humans.

 

DLC? Ewww! Anyway I've read codices that were ultimately summarized in a way that didn't really match it's content, so you should of just cited the whole thing.

 

 

3) Those are not rumors. Play Inquisition again and head for the Temple of Mythal with Solas in your party. Click on the three Mosaics with depictions of the Elven gods and Solas will tell you of the blood rituals performed by Falon'Din. 

 

So it's not a human source, as you can see.

 

Two elves openly admitting the flaws and crimes commited by the elven people. One admits Arlathan was already a decadent civilization by the time elves like Falon'Din were mistakenly considered gods. The other admits there are Dalish clans - in PLURAL - who are no more than bandits preying on innocent people. 

Elves are as mediocre as humans, dwarves and any other race. The fact they didn't lift a finger to save innocents from a darkspawn invasion shows their true colours. Not even their immortality was inherent to their race. Otherwise, they would still be immortal after the Veil was created.

 

Is Solas really even an Elf? He's not Dalish, hes not really a city elf, he's more like a renegade isolationist who happens to be an Elf of some kind, it's hard to put too much faith in anything he says.

 

Ameridan, the only Dalish rational and clear-minded enough to understand it's stupid to let humans die in a Blight because of racism. What a pity many other elves are not as evolved as he was and prefer to blame humans for all their misfortunes instead of being clever and brave like Ameridan. 

 

The humans are to blame for a huge portion of their misfortunes, it's not racism not to want to get involved with a human nation whose stated purposes and actions are completely antagonistic towards the group, that's just refusing to open oneself to being stabbed in the back.

 

It's easy, when playing an Elf in DA to distinguish between humans who are more or less antagonist, even friendly to Elves, but so long as Orlais and Fereldan maintain these sorts of policies, it's just extremely irrational to trust any kind of large scale activity with them due to human racial attitudes towards Elves.

[Seraphim24]

Of course, taking on those systems would fail. While I support the player being allowed to fail at stuff, I'm not sure adfing this would pass an ROI test.

 

Why? Jowan basically just touched blood magic and basically had completely subdued the First Enchanter and High Templar commander and a few other soldiers with really no effort. Elves retain a stronger connection to the Fade and magic on some level, a fully mobilized Elvish group using magic? It could be quite powerful, even not using blood magic but magic in general

[Seraphim24]

It makes no sense because that's the only way race choice works, but that's a separate issue. 

 

Of course, in helping the entrenched powers, you're essentially furthering the abusive power structure that leads to e.g. elves being exploited. I will object to one point, though: Cailan. He's a moron. It's absolutely possible that he has no idea what's going on around him. 

 

Ok, you could probably argue Cailan was so Simba in his Kingly attributes there is no way he would of known what was going with Elves, or Dwarves, or really anyone for that matter.

 

That doesn't excuse.... everyone else.

 

And frankly that just changes his failure from one of active abuse to one of supreme neglect. The alienage is literally this huge obviously walled off area in Denerim, it would be impossible for Cailan not to just see it and the guard outside and be like huh?

[Dai Grepher]

@In Exile:  Varathras hates all humans because of what a few did... that's racism. Velanna hates all humans because of what a few did... that's racism.  Abelas and Solas simply consider humans vermin and worthy of wiping out... that's supreme racism. 

 

And a million other Dalish have chips on their shoulders because someone told them a story about how humans ruined their lives...

 

When you're entire culture is based off blaming someone else for your problems... that, is also, racism. 

 

Isn't is speciesist? Not racist? It's like the reason why everyone hates Darkspawn, isn't it?
 

[Illegitimus]

No they're not, every 25 minutes you might get a dialogue option that doesn't actually do anything.

 

The player is fundamentally coerced into a path of essentially supporting those systems.

 

You are using whimsical and arbitrary game rules, excuses, the fact that "people can express discontent" and allusions to justify it's continued existence.

 

In Dragon Age, you defend, support, make companions, and otherwise to everything within your power to protect Fereldan, a country that for no apparent reason, engages in substantial violence and venom against a group of people out of apparently nothing else than base hatreds.

 

I'm just saying, that's really just like, not good. It would be better if we were defending a better country, that's not really debatable. Even better would be to displace that one with a better one.

 

One of the strengths of Dragon Age as I see is that is that it contains an understanding that things aren't that easy.  If you were playing a game set in 17th century Europe then no matter how great a hero you might be, you still couldn't just make a speech or stab a despot and magically change the social position of Jews.  If you were playing a game set during World War II you might be the greatest spy the Allies have, but you still couldn't do much about Jim Crow laws and you wouldn't be justified were you to say, "On second thought it's OK for the Nazis to get the uranium separation process because...Jim Crow".  You aren't fighting to preserve the legal restrictions on City Elves and lack of protections.  You are fighting to destroy something infinitely worse.  Along the way you can do a thing here or there that has the potential to undermine the system down the road (like for example rallying the city elves to fight alongside the Dalish to defend the Alienage), but not dealing with the worse thing, because the world isn't perfect...that's wrong.  

[Seraphim24]

Note that from the outside, Hawke's story looks like a power fantasy .... the refugee rusing to become the Champion of Kirkwall, blah blah blah. It's from Hawke's POV that it looks like a failure, except in the sense that survival itself is a success.

Is DA:I a similar subversion, in the end?

 

Ok, so it's a story of failure what's your point?

 

The fact that Bioware subverted a typical kind of heroic story by substituting a crappier one?

[nightscrawl]

That's still very vague, considering human society in general basically is bent on destroying Elves, it's kind of reasonable to conclude they are essentially on war. What if those humans are very Elf-hateful and would immediately tell the Fereldan army of the Elves in the forest and bring their full force to bear?

Human society, as a whole, is NOT "bent on destroying elves." People being general a-holes or racists does not mean that they would condone genocide.**

 

Most humans do not give a damn about elves. I would also argue that most humans do not give a damn about other humans. In Dragon Age, humans harm each other too. It is not, "humans versus everyone else." Elves are not special in being the sole recipient of mistreatment in Thedas.

 

[edit]

** Hm... considering history, I will add to this. If asked, I don't think that people would actually care enough to say, "Yes, let's wipe them all out!" with gusto. And I would also argue that being silent in the face of atrocities is not the same as actively wishing them upon a group.
 

Is Solas really even an Elf? He's not Dalish, hes not really a city elf, he's more like a renegade isolationist who happens to be an Elf of some kind, it's hard to put too much faith in anything he says.

I'm sure Solas would probably say that he is more of a "real" elf than Tabris, Surana, or Lavellan. As would Abelas for that matter.

Modifié par nightscrawl, 29 décembre 2015 - 03:27 .

[Seraphim24]

 You aren't fighting to preserve the legal restrictions on City Elves and lack of protections.

 

And why not?

[Seraphim24]

Most humans do not give a damn about elves.

 

False.

 

I would also argue that most humans do not give a damn about other humans. In Dragon Age, humans harm each other too. It is not, "humans versus everyone else." Elves are not special in being the sole recipient of mistreatment in Thedas.

 

So you defend Human mistreatment of Elves by saying Humans equally mistreat everyone?