757 réponses à ce sujet

[berelinde]

You know, I'm not sure that threatening to kill random hunters whose only crime was to take the wrong path constitutes benevolence. When you threaten them with death, most people become rather defensive. There's a fight or flight response involved. Most people are going to try to get away, yeah, but they're likely to put a hand on a weapon out of reflex. It sounds more like provoking a fight than anything else. If they really wanted the hunters to leave them alone, they'd say "Hey, leave us alone and we'll return the favor." Not "We have six arrows pointed at your head."

 

The hunters Mahariel encounters aren't up to anything sinister. They aren't spying for a lord or doing anything that harms the Dalish in any way. They don't lead with threats. Yeah, they probably would avoid Dalish camps intentionally if they knew where they were, but all the humans know is that sometimes, hunters go out and they don't come back. That could be anything: torn apart by wolves, fell in a bear trap, pinned under a falling tree, used for target practice by Dalish, what have you. The point is, they don't realize the Dalish are even there.

 

Anyway, it seems to me that the best way to end the violence is to punish crimes that are actually committed, not strike preemptively. On both sides.

 

Me, I always get Josie to force the mourning halla on the village of Red Crossing instead of selling the scroll to the Chantry. This forces both sides to admit blame, but I think it's the only way to move past the sense of perpetual indignation and take a few steps toward healing.

[stop_him]

Wouldn't know. I hate human PCs. How bland's a person gotta be to play a human in fantasy game?

[Evamitchelle]

Wouldn't know. I hate human PCs. How bland's a person gotta be to play a human in fantasy game?

That should be reason #10: elf fans.

[DebatableBubble]

Wouldn't know. I hate human PCs. How bland's a person gotta be to play a human in fantasy game?

You should know. You made one.

[nightscrawl]

Wouldn't know. I hate human PCs. How bland's a person gotta be to play a human in fantasy game?

I've remained silent as I was perusing this thread, but I just have to remark on this. This is one of the reasons I can't stand elf players. They feel the need to crap on players of other races, primarily humans, in this way. (Disclaimer that this does not apply to ALL elf players.)

 

One of the reasons I play a human is simply for appearance. I haven't liked the look of the elves in any of the DA games, and I'm able to create the character type that I want in the CC as a human. I may suck at using the CC for the most part, but this also extends to their body type as well, which we can't change, and which I don't care for. In comparison, my main in World of Warcraft was a female blood elf, primarily chosen because I liked the look of that race.

In general, I really don't care at all about the elves in DA. I neither like nor "hate" them. I will take individual characters and companions for who they are and not for their race. Fenris was my main romance in DA2. I'm not interested in their culture, so a lot of the lore reveals and such in DAI, Trespasser, and possibly with the upcoming DA4 don't really have an impact on me. For the non-humans, I'm much more interested in dwarves than elves.

[GoldenGail3]

Wouldn't know. I hate human PCs. How bland's a person gotta be to play a human in fantasy game?

I love Elves (I like Tokliens elves too. ) but I play Humans

1. It's something other then playing another race.

2. I play every race, I just have a pefrence towards playing elves. But my Canon is all human, and I'm not bland.

2. It's not like everyone plays the Bioring (Bioware + boring go hand and hand sometimes. Such as there canon being really, really just plain boring and dull), Canon which happens to be a Female Human Rogue.

[Gileadan]

Wouldn't know. I hate human PCs. How bland's a person gotta be to play a human in fantasy game?

How poor does your imagination have to be if you need pointy ears as a crutch to create an interesting character?

I bet you that there would be way less people who find the Dalish interesting if they were human but everything else about them remained the same. Just another bunch of bland humans.

Thedas is the only setting in which I have zero desire to play an elf. I love my pale elf Bleak Walker paladin in PoE for example, but I'd rather not touch the elves of Thedas. There are three reasons for that.

1. Their whiny, finger pointing attitude
2. Their twisted scarecrow looks past Origins
3. Elf fans.

[BansheeOwnage]

Wouldn't know. I hate human PCs. How bland's a person gotta be to play a human in fantasy game?

 

[NaclynE]

Frankly I like playing as elven characters in RPGs because usually their the sexiest look characters in the game both male and female. Not to mention they always seem to be the most wise because they have spent X hundred years doing stuff so they have early knowledge of things and the world around them unlike us humans where it seems like human characters just learn about things as they go.

 

In Solas's defense i must say it's neat to hate the guy who has been around for X hundred of years and has seen so many things that has made him really anal up and down to the point he feels like in one hundred more years things will not get better and will get worse. I mean in all the RPGs I have played I have never dealt with a debbie downer elven character. They always talk about positive things within their X hundred years and even explain things they have seen or did or experienced. Solas is all negative this and negative that about things he has seen in his life.

 

Traditionally elves are really good with bows and arrows and make great spellcasters. I really don't like playing brute force characters in RPGs usually so that's a reason why I like to play elves.

 

Frankly if I had a chance in a RPG I would love to play as an elf for those reasons.

[Madfox11]

Every game and just about every book I read the biggest problem the Elves face is the Shemlins..

 

Shems mistreat, kill and rape the city Elves like its a sport but,the Shems fear the Dalish Elves because they are armed and very dangerous and the Shems know they're not to be trifled with. In simple terms if you have Dalish blood on your hands you will face the consequences. Some Arls purge a Alienage for any reason real or imagine.  Loghain sold Elves into slavery in order to finance his civil war. 

 

In "The Last Flight' the Hero is a elven mage that finds Griffin eggs. The real mother of King Alistair is Fiona a former GW Elven mage and Queen Celene's  lover and personal confident is Elven.

 

Many of the Greys is Elven.

 

Why doesn't the Shems leave the Elves alone to live their life?

 

Lol... as if the humans treat each other any better. How many humans do you find in Howe's prison compared to elvhen? I am also not entirely sure the elves treat each other any better for that matter either.

[nightscrawl]

Lol... as if the humans treat each other any better. How many humans do you find in Howe's prison compared to elvhen? I am also not entirely sure the elves treat each other any better for that matter either.

 

IMO this is actually an argument for finding the elf race interesting, or at least a bit compelling. DA has not set them up to be these perfect gods that are so far and above the petty, war-like humans and other races.

[Tidus]

Lol... as if the humans treat each other any better. How many humans do you find in Howe's prison compared to elvhen? I am also not entirely sure the elves treat each other any better for that matter either.

Try not to  laugh to loud.. Humans are cruel in every DA book I've read so far and in every DA game..

 

Humans betrayed and killed the Rebel Queen in a cowardly ambush and hunted young  King Meric in order to appease the Orlesian dog that sits on the throne of Ferelden.  

 

Humans are the reason there are blights.

 

Humans almost caused the destruction of Ferelden during a blight.

 

Humans kill Elves like its a sport.

 

Humans rape Elven women-this comes out late in DA:O..

 

Humans betrayed and killed the Couslands.

 

Humans betrayed Queen Celene.

 

A Arl's son was tortured by Howe.

 

The noble humans kidnap Elven women as party whores, brutalize them and then kill them.

 

Humans enslaved the Elves.

 

The list is endless.

[LOLandStuff]

The uberelfen betrayed and killed Mythal because she was smarter than them, and then decided it'll be funnier if they destroyed the whole world. Because if you can then why the heck not.

 

One of the uberelfen brought the Blight and even fashioned it into an armor. Lucky she's been dealt with.

 

Elves attacked dwarves and destroyed a titan or more, I don't remember.

 

A whole lot of elves wanted to destroy the world only to get locked by another elf which caused their world to be destroyed and then nearly destroying the resulting world once again because he was homesick And he also wants to try it a third time.

 

Elves destroyed their own great city because they lost their **** once their gods were gone. You'd think they'd be happier to be free.

 

Elves killed elves for sport, for a quick conversion, you name. And modern elves hunt humans down in a game called Fen'Harel's Teeth. Nice sportsmanship there.

 

Elves did absolutely nothing during the Blight.

 

Elves started a war over a bouquet of flowers. At least now we know they have poor eyesight.

 

Elves took advantage of a weakened country and curb-stomped their way to Val Royeaux after burning down Red Crossing.

 

An elf wants to release the uberelfen because he thinks he has plans.

 

Elves thought it was a good idea to summon a dangerous demon only to have the entire clan die in horrible pain.

 

But do tell us how much humans suck.

[Qun00]

You know, I'm not sure that threatening to kill random hunters whose only crime was to take the wrong path constitutes benevolence. When you threaten them with death, most people become rather defensive. There's a fight or flight response involved. Most people are going to try to get away, yeah, but they're likely to put a hand on a weapon out of reflex. It sounds more like provoking a fight than anything else. If they really wanted the hunters to leave them alone, they'd say "Hey, leave us alone and we'll return the favor." Not "We have six arrows pointed at your head."
 
The hunters Mahariel encounters aren't up to anything sinister. They aren't spying for a lord or doing anything that harms the Dalish in any way. They don't lead with threats. Yeah, they probably would avoid Dalish camps intentionally if they knew where they were, but all the humans know is that sometimes, hunters go out and they don't come back. That could be anything: torn apart by wolves, fell in a bear trap, pinned under a falling tree, used for target practice by Dalish, what have you. The point is, they don't realize the Dalish are even there.
 
Anyway, it seems to me that the best way to end the violence is to punish crimes that are actually committed, not strike preemptively. On both sides.
 
Me, I always get Josie to force the mourning halla on the village of Red Crossing instead of selling the scroll to the Chantry. This forces both sides to admit blame, but I think it's the only way to move past the sense of perpetual indignation and take a few steps toward healing.

Just a minor note. Those men were scavengers, not hunters.

[berelinde]

Just a minor note. Those men were scavengers, not hunters.

True. It's been a while. But the point stands: they were there because they were trying to support themselves and their families, not because they intended anyone harm.

 

No doubt someone will be outraged because they were humans plundering someone else's heritage or ravaging an important historical site or something, but picking up stuff you find and selling it isn't unique to humans. Heck, how many bodies does the Warden loot? I can't be the only player whose characters enter every house, ruin, or cave, scoop up every bit of treasure in sight, and sell whatever has lesser stats than what my team is currently wearing. There are a few items I hang on to, like Nelaros's ring or the Warden's Oath, but that's because the items hold sentimental value to the character, not because they're culturally important. My Hawkes and Inquisitors are compulsive collectors because they have storage chests, but my Wardens only have 125 inventory spots max. If they don't have an immediate use for something, they're going to sell it. Heck, even my Hawkes and Inquisotors are going to have to abandon their collections eventually. There isn't a post-game mission to recover artifacts from the Hawke estate or Skyhold after the protagonist leaves. Whoever raids those caches isn't going to donate all that swag to a museum.

[Tidus]

The uberelfen betrayed and killed Mythal because she was smarter than them, and then decided it'll be funnier if they destroyed the whole world. Because if you can then why the heck not.

 

One of the uberelfen brought the Blight and even fashioned it into an armor. Lucky she's been dealt with.

 

Elves attacked dwarves and destroyed a titan or more, I don't remember.

 

A whole lot of elves wanted to destroy the world only to get locked by another elf which caused their world to be destroyed and then nearly destroying the resulting world once again because he was homesick And he also wants to try it a third time.

 

Elves destroyed their own great city because they lost their **** once their gods were gone. You'd think they'd be happier to be free.

 

Elves killed elves for sport, for a quick conversion, you name. And modern elves hunt humans down in a game called Fen'Harel's Teeth. Nice sportsmanship there.

 

Elves did absolutely nothing during the Blight.

 

Elves started a war over a bouquet of flowers. At least now we know they have poor eyesight.

 

Elves took advantage of a weakened country and curb-stomped their way to Val Royeaux after burning down Red Crossing.

 

An elf wants to release the uberelfen because he thinks he has plans.

 

Elves thought it was a good idea to summon a dangerous demon only to have the entire clan die in horrible pain.

 

But do tell us how much humans suck.

Yes,sounds like the American Indian preserving their way of life more then anything.

 

A Elvan mage summon the demon that killed that Elven tribe..

 

Yes,humans suck, even your pitiful small list of Elvan wrongs the human list is longer..

[Medhia_Nox]

Yes,sounds like the American Indian preserving their way of life more then anything.

 

A Elvan mage summon the demon that killed that Elven tribe..

 

Yes,humans suck, even your pitiful small list of Elvan wrongs the human list is longer..

 

Can you please illuminate? 

The elves are almost nothing like the indigenous populations of the Americas.  

[Guitar-Hero]

Cant get past the design, inquisitor should say "leader" not "kid who got his lunch money stolen" 

[Medhia_Nox]

@Guitar-Hero:  Well, they are a "lithe, pointy eared people who excel at poverty." - Sten 

 

So... I think DA depicts them pretty well. 

[Shechinah]

@Guitar-Hero:  Well, they are a "lithe, pointy eared people who excel at poverty." - Sten 

 

So... I think DA depicts them pretty well. 

 

In case you are not intentionally only citing part of it, this is the entire quote; "People are not simple. They cannot be summarized for easy reference in the manner of: 'The elves are a lithe, pointy eared people who excel at poverty"

 

I believe what Sten intended to convey with his quote was the opposite of what you are intending to convey with it.
 

[LOLandStuff]

Yes,sounds like the American Indian preserving their way of life more then anything.

 

A Elvan mage summon the demon that killed that Elven tribe..

 

Yes,humans suck, even your pitiful small list of Elvan wrongs the human list is longer..

 

We're talking about elves. And since you identify so much with them that you basically think you're one and even talk in third person at times, I'd say we leave Native Americans out of it., because this is about elves.

 

So, in short, what you're saying is that it's ok to commit atrocities as long as you're an elf because it's a cultural thing.

[Dai Grepher]

I probably fall in 7 and 8, but with a few exceptions. It isn't that they are the lowest or that they aren't winners. Its that they are doing nothing to improve, and they are choosing to stay in that state. I think it's why Solas doesn't consider himself part of them. They are misguided and have no drive to truly advance. They are closed off to alternative views, and mired in false traditions because the cling desperately to some kind of identity.

 

They are too easily controlled and abused. From ling up single-file for a "cure" cast by Tevinter mages, to possibly turning against Merrill, to their mass exodus because they hear voices. The People bend their knee too quickly, as Flemeth points out.

 

Of course there are exceptions. Shianni speaks out against various injustices. Minaeve endured a rough childhood with the Dalish, and became useful in her own right, even a kind of a caregiver to the tranquil.

 

I think the problem might be that slavery is in their blood. It is part of their being. That's why they're so prone to it, or else they separate into closely guarded groups, echoing the era when the evanuris used their slaves to war with each other.

 

Their is almost no cooperation between clans, no coordinated effort to find the truth of their past or their future potential. It's just living in the wilds, for hundreds of years. Nomads. Never laying down roots. Never having anything of their own. They typically make bad decisions.

 

That's not to say I hate elves. I like the dynamic they bring to the series, but I pity them as a whole. I don't admire anything about them. I only admire those select few elves who are actually trying to excel and go beyond the elven status quo in a smart and moral way.

[berelinde]

The uberelfen betrayed and killed Mythal because she was smarter than them, and then decided it'll be funnier if they destroyed the whole world. Because if you can then why the heck not.

 

One of the uberelfen brought the Blight and even fashioned it into an armor. Lucky she's been dealt with.

 

Elves attacked dwarves and destroyed a titan or more, I don't remember.

 

A whole lot of elves wanted to destroy the world only to get locked by another elf which caused their world to be destroyed and then nearly destroying the resulting world once again because he was homesick And he also wants to try it a third time.

 

Elves destroyed their own great city because they lost their **** once their gods were gone. You'd think they'd be happier to be free.

 

Elves killed elves for sport, for a quick conversion, you name. And modern elves hunt humans down in a game called Fen'Harel's Teeth. Nice sportsmanship there.

 

Elves did absolutely nothing during the Blight.

 

Elves started a war over a bouquet of flowers. At least now we know they have poor eyesight.

 

Elves took advantage of a weakened country and curb-stomped their way to Val Royeaux after burning down Red Crossing.

 

An elf wants to release the uberelfen because he thinks he has plans.

 

Elves thought it was a good idea to summon a dangerous demon only to have the entire clan die in horrible pain.

 

But do tell us how much humans suck.

What elf made armor from the Blight? I don't disbelieve you, but Thedas is rich in lore and I don't always remember all the names. I often have to refresh my memory with a quick lookup on the DA Wiki, but I need a name to start the search. I tried looking up the Blight itself, but that wasn't as helpful as I hoped.

[ComedicSociopathy]

What elf made armor from the Blight? I don't disbelieve you, but Thedas is rich in lore and I don't always remember all the names. I often have to refresh my memory with a quick lookup on the DA Wiki, but I need a name to start the search. I tried looking up the Blight itself, but that wasn't as helpful as I hoped.

 

Anduril. You know, that elf who got bored and decided that hunting her own people like animals would be fun.

 

Ugh. The fact that the Dalish still worship that creature is revolting. No wonder Solas distanced himself from them. 

[TK514]

What elf made armor from the Blight? I don't disbelieve you, but Thedas is rich in lore and I don't always remember all the names. I often have to refresh my memory with a quick lookup on the DA Wiki, but I need a name to start the search. I tried looking up the Blight itself, but that wasn't as helpful as I hoped.

 

He's talking about the idiot evanuris that made her armor from 'the Void' and went insane so the others had to deal with her.  Andruil, I think.

 

I actually found the elves boring when they were just a whiny victim race.  Now that we know they are actually responsible, or partially so, for everything that has happened to them, they're more interesting.  I still wouldn't play one, but at least now they're not a complete waste.