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[berelinde]

He's talking about the idiot evanuris that made her armor from 'the Void' and went insane so the others had to deal with her.  Andruil, I think.

Ah, OK. That clears things up.

[Medhia_Nox]

In case you are not intentionally only citing part of it, this is the entire quote; "People are not simple. They cannot be summarized for easy reference in the manner of: 'The elves are a lithe, pointy eared people who excel at poverty"

 

I believe what Sten intended to convey with his quote was the opposite of what you are intending to convey with it.
 

While right... it's a shame they so rarely break the mold Sten, perhaps unintentionally, puts them in.

 

@ComedicSociopathy:  The Codex for Andruil says:  "One day, when Andruil became tired of hunting mortal men and beasts."   She specifically targeted humans, not elves. 

 

@TK514:  I both agree and disagree with you.  There are aspects of the "victim" race I really liked... mostly, the potential for the means by which they would strive for freedom.  I was hoping Bioware would explore something more like Martin Luther King Jr.  or Gandhi... or, perhaps at least something like the French Revolution (the first attempt which ended terribly bad for the revolutionaries). 

 

I like that their story is not so simplistic as being the perennial underdog.  That they are responsible for it as much as anyone.  But I am/was hoping this would force the elves to end their backward thinking (quite literally)  and stop looking to their past... and look to their future.  But instead...

 

I am not really overly excited about the bald rat messiah they've got now...

[TK514]

@TK514:  I both agree and disagree with you.  There are aspects of the "victim" race I really liked... mostly, the potential for the means by which they would strive for freedom.  I was hoping Bioware would explore something more like Martin Luther King Jr.  or Gandhi... or, perhaps at least something like the French Revolution (the first attempt which ended terribly bad for the revolutionaries). 

 

I like that their story is not so simplistic as being the perennial underdog.  That they are responsible for it as much as anyone.  But I am/was hoping this would force the elves to end their backward thinking (quite literally)  and stop looking to their past... and look to their future.  But instead...

 

 

Here's my perspective.  When everything bad that ever happened to them was the result of someone else, they were powerless.  It implied that even at the height of their power, or close enough to it, they got curbed stomped by humanity and were unable to stop it.  This trend continued for thousands of years, with events showing the elves were simply incapable of stopping their decline unless humanity threw them a bone.

 

Now, however, we know that most of the bad things that happened to them were the result not of natural inferiority, but bad decisions.  Things could have been different had they chosen a different course.  That suggests that the elves could, in theory, learn, from both past mistakes and the current world state, and make better choices in the future, pulling themselves out of the depths to which they've sunk.  Granted, it might be too late, but at least they have the power to try.

 

Edit:  Of course, Solas, Elven God of Screwing Things Up, is just going to make things worse because that's what he does.  Unless a significant majority of elves publicly and violently reject him and side with humanity,  his actions and defeat are going to give humanity the motive it needs to really hunt the elves to extinction.

[Shechinah]

1.I  probably fall in 7 and 8, but with a few exceptions. It isn't that they are the lowest or that they aren't winners. Its that they are doing nothing to improve, and they are choosing to stay in that state. I think it's why Solas doesn't consider himself part of them. They are misguided and have no drive to truly advance. They are closed off to alternative views, and mired in false traditions because the cling desperately to some kind of identity.

 

- While some Dalish and their clans are, not all are closed off to alternative views as indicated by point three below  Some clans and Alienage elves do try to advance beyond their current state but are often hindered by circumstances and prejudices.

 

Alienage elves who manages to scrape together enough of a wager to live outside the Alienage might have their house burned down because some humans do not like elves outside the alienage and rising above their low status. Even scraping together the coin is a challenge as work can be difficult to obtain for an elf and there is not always something stopping a employer from deciding to not pay the Alienage elf. There's always the deplorable conditions they have to endure if they want to keep their families fed such as needlessly hazardous work that can Wind up crippling them so they have to resort to begging. Leaving a city that is especially poor to Alienage elves may not always be a very pleasent option as they'd need to travel from one city to another and risk banditry and the likes as well as having enough coin to buy provisions to last the trip and possibly to pay for a place to be when they arrive at their designation.  

 

Dalish clans who tries to settle down might be viewed as a threat by other settlements or have to leave because it might otherwise come to agressive conflict even if they are not the aggressor because the common law of the land favors humans above elves. Depending on which lore is correct, there is a Rivainian settlement of Dalish elves who have settled there permanently because Rivain does not have the same view of the Dalish which make sense since they share certain culture aspects that are frowned upon or persecuted by the Chantry.    

 

2. They are too easily controlled and abused. From ling up single-file for a "cure" cast by Tevinter mages, to possibly turning against Merrill, to their mass exodus because they hear voices. The People bend their knee too quickly, as Flemeth points out.

 

- Perhaps you could elaborate on what you mean by "-to their mass exodus because they hear voices"? because I am not sure what you mean by that.

 

I believe the elves in the Alienage were quarantined because of the supposed plague and the Tevinter mages were allowed to operate there by the ruling regent so there was a reason beyond fear why the elves might be willing to take the Tevinter mages on their word. They were not able to leave the Alienage and there is still a bit of jump between distrusting Tevinter mages on their motives and believing the regent would do something as severe as secretly be killing or selling them into slavery, the former perhaps even more so given that the recent uprising could be used to try and justify an eradication of the Alienage by the regent. Furthermore, the poor living conditions of the Alienage elves likely resulted in some diseases or a sickness that could be mistaken as symptoms of a plague especially with some fear heaped on. 

 

The Alienage elves in Denerim also did not, I believe, view themselves as part of the Dalish culture and did not refer to themselves as part of the People. They had their own culture which was a mix of elven and Andrastian. I believe, they view the Dalish much the same way most human people do as I think Pol says that most people believe the Dalish to be nothing but bands of bandits. I even think some of the elves in Alienage question whether or not the Dalish even exist.

 

There are Dalish clans who resort to banditry, of course, and according to Zevran, the Antivan clans are supposedly very violent but not all of the clans are like that and judging by the reaction of Junar's disgusted reaction at the notion, the Sabrae clan do not only not attempt banditry but they are vehemently against it. I imaging this is not uncommon as banditry seems to be a problem for more than a few Dalish clans and the Sabrae clan lost their Keeper before Marethari to an attack by bandits made up of humans and elves.  

 

Of course there are exceptions. Shianni speaks out against various injustices. Minaeve endured a rough childhood with the Dalish, and became useful in her own right, even a kind of a caregiver to the tranquil.

 

3. I think the problem might be that slavery is in their blood. It is part of their being. That's why they're so prone to it, or else they separate into closely guarded groups, echoing the era when the evanuris used their slaves to war with each other.

 

- Could you perhaps elaborate on this since I'm not sure what you mean by "-slavery is in their blood. It is a part of their being"?

 

As far as I can remember, the reason given for why most clans tend to be in smaller groups is primarily to make themselves less of a target and make it less likely for them to draw attention both when stationary and when on the move. How closely guarded they are also depend upon the individual clan since some clans are directly stated to trade with some human settlements and at least one of the clans were one that had, had bad experiences with humans. The Lavellan clan is stated to have been openly trading with humans and respected them.

 

 Some elves even have nothing against Andraste despite her role as a figurehead for the Chantry and its religion. Interestingly, Interestingly, Velanna is apparently one of these elves despite her near utter dislike for just about everybody regardless of their race and her dislike for the Chantry; "I should hate her, but I don't. I can respect a woman who fights for freedom and justice." 

 

Some clans even go as far as exiling members of their clan for wanting to be agressively hostile towards humans; Velanna and her group were exiled by their clan's Keeper after she wanted to exact revenge on humans who tried to burn their Dalish clan out of the woods.

 

4. Their is almost no cooperation between clans, no coordinated effort to find the truth of their past or their future potential. It's just living in the wilds, for hundreds of years. Nomads.

 

- I disagree as the meeting of clans known as Arlathvhen that comes about every tenth year is intended towards sharing all knowledge gathered by the different clans as well as conduct trading as well as a means of communicating. I imaging they also note which clans are absence as a means of possibly determining whether or not they've been wiped out.

 

"Only once a decade or so do the Dalish clans all meet together, and their keepers, the elders and the leaders of the Dalish who are responsible in keeping elven lore and magic alive, will meet together and Exchange knowledge in a meeting called Arlathvhen. (...) During such a time, the clans will recall and record any lore they have relearned such the past meeting, along with reiterating what lore they know already to keep their traditions as accurate and alive as possible. During such time, the clans will exchange relics dating from the two elven nations for safekeeping. The Dalish believe that all the relics they've preserved from the Dales and Arlathan belong to all Dalish; such trades are seen as much of an act of sharing as is a matter of trade, and the same is true even for talented elves. Merill for an example was born in the Alerion clan, but due to her magic talents she was given to the Sabrae clan to be the First of Keeper Marethari as clan Alerion already had a number of gifted elves" - (The Dragon Age Wikipedia)

 

5. Never laying down roots. Never having anything of their own. They typically make bad decisions.

 

- This is not necessarily for a lack of trying on the Dalish part as some Dalish Clans have tried to settle down permanently only for it to end badly.

 

The Sabrae, as an example, is said to have initially settled in the Frostback mountains where their clan flourished until an Avvar clan attacked them. This attack led to the death of more than a dozen Dalish elves including the then Second and Keeper of the clan. When the Sabrae clan made for the lowlands, the Avvar even pursued them and were slain by Sylvans which may have been the work of a Witch of the Wild the Sabrae clan made contact with. - (The World of Thedas, vol 2, p. 164)
 

[Jedi Master of Orion]

@ComedicSociopathy:  The Codex for Andruil says:  "One day, when Andruil became tired of hunting mortal men and beasts."   She specifically targeted humans, not elves. 

 

Since it comes from the Temple of Mythal that still sounds like elves to me. Ancient Elves seem unlikely to refer to humans as "mortal men" instead of "shemlen." And despite being ageless, even ancient elves were sometimes described to as being mortal. One of the messages from Fen'Harel to the slaves he freed was "Fen'Harel has been falsely named a god, but he is as mortal as any of you."

 

Anduril. You know, that elf who got bored and decided that hunting her own people like animals would be fun.

 

Ugh. The fact that the Dalish still worship that creature is revolting. No wonder Solas distanced himself from them. 

 

It's not as if the Dalish know that story and continue to worship her anyway. They just see her as the goddess who taught elves how to hunt and live off the land. 

 

Also, I get the sense that story about fashioning "the Void" into armor is not supposed to be taken at face value, especially since it describes certain things in a way that now seems likely to be propaganda from the Evanuris. Nor would I say that "the Void" is necessarily the blight.

[Shechinah]

Anduril. You know, that elf who got bored and decided that hunting her own people like animals would be fun.

 

Ugh. The fact that the Dalish still worship that creature is revolting. No wonder Solas distanced himself from them. 

 

I do not believe the Dalish knew of this codex entry as it is translated from ancient elven found in the Temple of Mythal and so is far from common knowledge especially given that the surviving ancient elves did not seem the sort to be interested in correcting the Dalish on their misconceptions.

 

This, I believe, is how the Dalish percieves her character which is strikingly different;

"Long ago, when our people were strong and free, we roamed the world and could do as we pleased. But we were taught by Andruil, Mother of Hares, to respect nature all of the Creator's creatures. Even though the earth was ours, we did not misuse it. They say the great leaders of the People would pray to Andruil for guidence. Where shall we hunt? Andruil would sent her Messenger, the owl, to show the People the way, and they would follow him to where the land was blessed. Always keep an eye out for the noble owl. You never know; Andruil might have a message for you." - Codex entry by Keeper Gisharel of the Ralaferin clan

 

The Way of the Arrow and the Way of the Wood also have these lines respectively;

"And let not your prey suffer" and "Recieve the gifts of the hunt with mindfullness, Respect the sacrifice of my children, Know your passing shall nourish them in turn."

 

In short, the Dalish do not worship the Andruil of the ancient elves but the Andruil of the modern elves who is much different than her ancient counterpart.

[Shechinah]

What elf made armor from the Blight? I don't disbelieve you, but Thedas is rich in lore and I don't always remember all the names. I often have to refresh my memory with a quick lookup on the DA Wiki, but I need a name to start the search. I tried looking up the Blight itself, but that wasn't as helpful as I hoped.

 

I can perhaps do you one better and post the codex entry.

 

Codex Entry: "Elven God Andruil"

"One day Andruil grew tired of hunting mortal men and beasts. She began stalking The Forgotten Ones, wicked things that thrive in the abyss. Yet even a god should not linger there, and each she entered the Void, Andruil suffered longer and longer periods of madness after turning.

 

Andruil put on armor made of the Void, and all forgot her true face. She made weapons of darkness, and plague ate her lands. She howled things meant to be forgotten, and the other gods became fearful Andruil would hunt them in turn. So Mythal spread rumors of a monstrous creature and took the form of a great serpent, waiting for Andruil at the base of a mountain.

 

When Andruil came, Mythal sprang on the hunter. They fought for three day and nights, Anruil slashing deep gouges in the serpent's hide. But Mythal's magic sapped Andruil's strength, and stole her knowledge of how to find the Void. After this, the great hunter could never make her way back to the abyss, and peace returned." - Translated from ancient found in the Arbor Wilds, source unverified. (Temple of Mythal - Hall of Shrines) 
 

[berelinde]

Thanks. I read that codex entry and I remembered it after "armor made from the Blight" was corrected to "armor made from the Void" but the refresher is welcome.

 

Reading what you wrote about the nature of Andruil reminds me of fairy tales. These days, they're all rated G Disney stories, but a few hundred years ago, they were horrible, violent things. Cinderella's stepsisters hacked off their own heels and toes trying to get the shoe to fit, etc. As they move farther and farther from the wars of the evanuris, the tales become more and more sanitized. Nobody wants to remember that their gods were brutal.

[Shechinah]

Reading what you wrote about the nature of Andruil reminds me of fairy tales. These days, they're all rated G Disney stories, but a few hundred years ago, they were horrible, violent things. Cinderella's stepsisters hacked off their own heels and toes trying to get the shoe to fit, etc.

 

Don't forget the story of Sleeping Beauty!
 

[Medhia_Nox]

@TK514:  Mass rejection of Solas... or extinction... are my two hopes for the elven race now. 

 

I would applaud Bioware for being so bold as to make a sapient species go extinct. 

[Evamitchelle]

Here's my perspective.  When everything bad that ever happened to them was the result of someone else, they were powerless.  It implied that even at the height of their power, or close enough to it, they got curbed stomped by humanity and were unable to stop it.  This trend continued for thousands of years, with events showing the elves were simply incapable of stopping their decline unless humanity threw them a bone.

 

Now, however, we know that most of the bad things that happened to them were the result not of natural inferiority, but bad decisions.  Things could have been different had they chosen a different course.  That suggests that the elves could, in theory, learn, from both past mistakes and the current world state, and make better choices in the future, pulling themselves out of the depths to which they've sunk.  Granted, it might be too late, but at least they have the power to try.

 

Edit:  Of course, Solas, Elven God of Screwing Things Up, is just going to make things worse because that's what he does.  Unless a significant majority of elves publicly and violently reject him and side with humanity,  his actions and defeat are going to give humanity the motive it needs to really hunt the elves to extinction.

 

Tevinter didn't conquer Arlathan at the height of its power. Abelas puts it as carrion picking over a corpse. At that point the elves had already lost their immortality, their magic, their leaders and a lot of their knowledge. The height of their power would have been a few thousands of years before Tevinter came into the picture. 

[Shechinah]

 As they move farther and farther from the wars of the evanuris, the tales become more and more sanitized. Nobody wants to remember that their gods were brutal.

 

Especially considering that life after the Veil were created and enslavement by Tevinter likely meant they had to adapt to a new existence without the guidence of gods they had relied on previously and the loss of magic likely meant that they had to learn to survive in a different way than they had before. Often, familar and known dangers are preferable to unfamiliar and unknown ones. 

 

It likely became easier to associate even the worse of times with the better of times. The horrible aspects of said times and culture became less horrible because they were in the past and seemed less horrible in comparison to the terrible things faced in the presence. They may even have justified them; "There were slavery but it was to the continued benefit of our empire and way of life - it meant something. There were blood sacrifices and power plays but we had the protection of the gods and we died for something. There were magical abuses but we had healing, good agriculture and our children seldom died from stillbirth or unintended dangers like starvation or exposure."

 

Some former slaves can have trouble shaking the mentality that they had imposed on them so a theory of mine has been that the Dalish may been former slaves who tried to create society as they were most familar with to cope with their sudden freedom but their perception were influenced by the limitations slaves had imposed upon them meaning they might have had a lack of knowledge about quite a few things and some may have believed even being slaughtered in Andruil's games as a blood sacrifice were for a necessary purpose or granted them an elevated status. They could have had a more simplified view of the gods. This led to their culture and religion developing as it did. An example would be how the vallaslin once signified the devotion of the slave's owner to their respective god and it remained a sign of devotion but the connection to slavery became lost. 

[TK514]

Tevinter didn't conquer Arlathan at the height of its power. Abelas puts it as carrion picking over a corpse. At that point the elves had already lost their immortality, their magic, their leaders and a lot of their knowledge. The height of their power would have been a few thousands of years before Tevinter came into the picture. 

 

You're just reiterating my point.  Previous to DA:I, and thus previous to Abelas telling us what happened, the story was that the humans attacked Arlethan and destroyed the elven empire and somehow were responsible for the loss of their immortality.  Now we know none of those things are true.  So instead of the best the elves had to offer being powerless to stop an aggressive humanity, we now know that the elves are responsible for their own downfall, and humans just scraped up what was left.

 

It changes the narrative of the elves from 'inherently inferior' to 'made some bad decisions that cost them everything'.

[Evamitchelle]

You're just reiterating my point. Previous to DA:I, and thus previous to Abelas telling us what happened, the story was that the humans attacked Arlethan and destroyed the elven empire and somehow were responsible for the loss of their immortality. Now we know none of those things are true. So instead of the best the elves had to offer being powerless to stop an aggressive humanity, we now know that the elves are responsible for their own downfall, and humans just scraped up what was left.

It changes the narrative of the elves from 'inherently inferior' to 'made some bad decisions that cost them everything'.

Yeah I re-read your first post and realised I misunderstood it.

[TK514]

It happens to us all.

[Evamitchelle]

It happens to us all.

It's early in the morning where I'm from (that's my excuse).

[KCMeredith]

The only problem I have with them is their constant whining. Its always "Evil Shemlen this, evil shemlen that" or "our lost culture, our lost history". Its gone, deal with it and move on. And regarding point 8, other races being racist/xenophobic doesn't mean I have to take it. I am, however, in support of a country for the Dalish if it means they stop complaing to/shooting every human they come across. Some other poster already mentioned the guilt trip card they always play, thats another thing.

 

The City Elves are much more likeable because they seem to have accepted their fate and moved on. They don't sit around all sappy and do nothing but complain and spew hate against everyone. They also never gave me a five minute long sob story about all the things they lost mixed with "AND ITS YOUR FAULT SHEM". 

[ComedicSociopathy]

snip

 

snip

 

Oh, don't get me wrong, I know the Dalish have absolutely no idea about Anduril's true nature and history. That's revolting thing about the situation. Their unknowingly worshiping a monster that terrorized, enslaved and dehumanized their ancestors. 

 

The only thing I can compare it to would be Jewish people revering Hitler a thousand years from now because an archaeological mix up resulted in people believing that he was actually Moses. 

 

sorry for breaking Godwin's law

[Shechinah]

The only thing I can compare it to would be Jewish people revering Hitler a thousand years from now because an archaeological mix up resulted in people believing that he was actually Moses. 

 

sorry for breaking Godwin's law

 

S'why you shouldn't drink and dig, people.
 

[sandalisthemaker]

If only I had a nickel every time I read "Humans are boring" or whatever variation there of on this site. 

 

Never mind that elven culture and all the other races' cultures are based off human cultures IRL.  They are all just humans with extra bits tacked on them when it comes down to it.  From Avvar to Orlesian, Humans are the most varied race in the setting, not boring at all. 

 

More on topic:  this series tries too hard to get me to feel sorry for the elves, and what little sympathy they garnered in me went out the window as it came to light that the elves brought about their own destruction. 

 

I am firmly neutral when it comes to the elves and their plight, and it would take a lot for me to change that general indifference come next game.

 

Plus, I simply cannot get over their body design. I've tried to play as an elf several times.  Can't get past the scene when waking up in the bed at Haven after the intro fight with the Pride demon.  Seeing the elf body in the beige pajamas makes my nose scrunch up like I've smelled a freshly opened can of surströmming. It's a visceral reaction that cannot be helped. 

[berelinde]

Especially considering that life after the Veil were created and enslavement by Tevinter likely meant they had to adapt to a new existence without the guidence of gods they had relied on previously and the loss of magic likely meant that they had to learn to survive in a different way than they had before. Often, familar and known dangers are preferable to unfamiliar and unknown ones. 

 

It likely became easier to associate even the worse of times with the better of times. The horrible aspects of said times and culture became less horrible because they were in the past and seemed less horrible in comparison to the terrible things faced in the presence. They may even have justified them; "There were slavery but it was to the continued benefit of our empire and way of life - it meant something. There were blood sacrifices and power plays but we had the protection of the gods and we died for something. There were magical abuses but we had healing, good agriculture and our children seldom died from stillbirth or unintended dangers like starvation or exposure."

 

Some former slaves can have trouble shaking the mentality that they had imposed on them so a theory of mine has been that the Dalish may been former slaves who tried to create society as they were most familar with to cope with their sudden freedom but their perception were influenced by the limitations slaves had imposed upon them meaning they might have had a lack of knowledge about quite a few things and some may have believed even being slaughtered in Andruil's games as a blood sacrifice were for a necessary purpose or granted them an elevated status. They could have had a more simplified view of the gods. This led to their culture and religion developing as it did. An example would be how the vallaslin once signified the devotion of the slave's owner to their respective god and it remained a sign of devotion but the connection to slavery became lost. 

Everybody does it. Your grandparents tell you how they had to walk 12 miles through the snow to get to school when they were kids - uphill, both ways - but they never stop talking about the good old days. "People had values back then. They were polite. They didn't wear their pants halfway down their butts, and they sure as heck didn't talk back to their teachers. And stop complaining about your allowance. When I was your age, my allowance was a quarter!"

 

It's probably best not to remind your grandparent that the values they had included legal discrimination, and that there's nothing polite about expecting your wife to wait on you hand and foot. They knew where their waistband was supposed to go, but it was OK to whistle at girls in short skirts. Grandpa really, really doesn't want to hear that the reason they didn't talk back to their teachers was because teachers could take a ruler to their knuckles if they weren't. And it doesn't help to remind them that yeah, they were getting a quarter a week as an allowance, but candy was a nickel.

 

So, is it any surprise that elves invented a better past than their ancestors actually lived? "We were free once, in the land that sank beneath the waves. We lived forever, and our gods protected us." It sounds better than "We were slaves to our own mage lords, who branded us like cattle." The only problem is that they're casting the blame on humans for their own romantic revisionism.

[NaclynE]

Try not to  laugh to loud.. Humans are cruel in every DA book I've read so far and in every DA game..

 

Humans betrayed and killed the Rebel Queen in a cowardly ambush and hunted young  King Meric in order to appease the Orlesian dog that sits on the throne of Ferelden.  

 

Humans are the reason there are blights.

 

Humans almost caused the destruction of Ferelden during a blight.

 

Humans kill Elves like its a sport.

 

Humans rape Elven women-this comes out late in DA:O..

 

Humans betrayed and killed the Couslands.

 

Humans betrayed Queen Celene.

 

A Arl's son was tortured by Howe.

 

The noble humans kidnap Elven women as party whores, brutalize them and then kill them.

 

Humans enslaved the Elves.

 

The list is endless.

 

Not entirely true.

 

Dwarves in DAO opened passages so deep in the deep roads this brought forth the blight.

 

Dwarves tried to fight the early darkspawn but were overwelmed to the point the darkspawn carried over to DAO to happen.

 

Well depending on what your character is your inquisitor being elf, dwarf, qunari or human can betray and allow Celene to be killed.

[Qis]

I always wonder why Elves are always portrayed as excellent archers, it is because in reality excellent archers don't live in the forest, like Mongols and Turks...it is because forests limit the range, it is a good spot for snipers yes but archery is not a culture for forest dwellers, and it is true if you look at natives in South East Asia....thick forests that makes the Mongol cancel their attack on South East Asia

 

Forest dwellers use blowpipes...it is an excellent weapon for sniping in thick forest

 

[Qis]

I think Elves are excellent in archery living in forest come from Robin Hood myth, it is assumed that forest dwellers making bows because there are a lot of material to create bows in the forest, while reality is archery do not excell in the forest because of range limit, forest dwellers since ancient time making blow pipes

 

[Medhia_Nox]

@Qis:  All these elves are probably "trying" to emulate one of the most popular North American representatives of the indigenous tribes... the north east forest dwellers that predominantly composed the Iroquois league. 

 

They were forest dwellers... and made ample use of the bow.

 

The tactics (not dissimilar to what we call guerrilla tactics) they employed were likely long forgotten in the Old World as military demands from Europe to Asia would have made their tactics obsolete (except perhaps in the hands of special forces like the Hashashins or the Ninja).  This made them very effective against the European invaders.