522 réponses à ce sujet

[IllustriousT]

Is Rucka confirmed as writer for the entire series? From what I've read of these introductory issues, it doesn't even sound like the characters are being all that well established. It sounds like it's more cameos and trying to integrate into DAI's story more than defining them as characters. I could be totally off track though

 

No you're not....not at all.

 

I keep hoping that Marius or Tessa will grow within the story, but both characters feel shallow to me. Marius' and Dorian's conversation about Tevinter mages, was just "I won't kill you because you're a Tevinter mage, but it is what I was made to do." Okay...why? Where is the growth?

[nightscrawl]

Okay. Yeah I'm predicting that Tessa will die by the end of the series and part of Marius' motivation as a companion will be to avenge her.

 

Maker's balls, I hope not; that would be so trite. It would be even worse if he were to be a romance option in DA4. It would practically be like Fenris 2.0 with the brooding. I like me some angst, and I don't mind the taciturn type, but geez... Marius would just be too much of all that. I know he and Tessa don't currently have a romantic relationship, and don't seem likely to ever have one, so it wouldn't be revenge of that sort, but I'm not big on revenge stories in a general sense.

 

Is Rucka confirmed as writer for the entire series? From what I've read of these introductory issues, it doesn't even sound like the characters are being all that well established. It sounds like it's more cameos and trying to integrate into DAI's story more than defining them as characters. I could be totally off track though

 

I think one of the reasons it feels this way is because this first arc is constrained by the events of the game. I'm really thinking that, once it moves beyond the game, it will be much better. It would be interesting to know what a person who has not played the games feels about it.

[Gervaise]

What I find disappointing is that the writer simply uses areas, Crestwood and the Hissing Wastes, that were already covered in detail in game play.    There was really no need for specialist mage killers either.   What would have been far more interesting would have been if he had fleshed out the storyline from some of the War Table missions.   

 

For example, the Serpent of Nevarra would have been an interesting one, with Tessa's own connection to the place, but also because it took place in a region that we never visited in game and involved a plot where King Markus was being controlled by blood magic.  Then there was the plot involving the palace in Denerim being infiltrated by Venatori spies.   Admittedly there might be complications because of potentially different monarchs but they got round that in game by using Teagan, so he could have done the same in the comic.  There was also a lengthy plot tracking down some Venatori agent in Antiva and the Freemarches.  With all these examples you could see the need for effective mage killers and thus these two being drafted in to help.  They were part of the activities we knew about but were never involved in personally.   Recycling areas from the game doesn't show much imagination to me.

[nightscrawl]

There was really no need for specialist mage killers either.

I completely disagree. We're talking about Tevinter here, where magic rules and assassinations are a part of the political landscape. They do not have templars to negate magic as they do in the South. Marius was trained as a mage killer by his owner, a magister, who undoubtedly wanted to use those skills for his own purposes. Magical combat is all well and good, and many mages are capable of protecting themselves, but combine that with such warrior skills and one would be unstoppable. You see the same mentality with Danarius having Fenris as a bodyguard. True, he imbued Fenris with unique abilities, but the purpose remains the same.

[Gervaise]

No, you mistake me.  I am not saying that specialist mage killers are not necessary in Tevinter or in a plot involving mages from Tevinter.   So far as I am aware the plot in Crestwood did not require specialist mage killers.   Considering the plot for the Hissing Wastes seems to culminate in dropping a Cliffside with explosives, that didn't require specialist mage killers either.    My argument is that if you have a storyline involving specialist mage killers, then they should be using them in situations which need their skills.    The Serpent of Nevarra was just such a storyline.   You had the court having been infiltrated by Venatori agents who were influencing the monarch.   Initially it is not clear if this has been by persuasion or something more sinister.    I always go with sending in assassins to take out all the suspected Venatori sympathisers (which would be the ideal sort of task for Marius and Tessa).   When the Venatori have been killed, King Marcus seems to come out of a trance and it is clear they have been using blood magic on him.

 

I have no objection to a comic series about mage killers; just that I feel their skills have been wasted on the Inquisition tasks that were assigned to them.   Have the mages outside of Tevinter shown any particular skills that the Chargers, say, could not have dealt with on their own?     Have the Spellbinders actually been shown to be more dangerous than your average mage? (Because I saw no evidence of this in game)    Have the Venatori actually used blood magic in fighting  the Inquisition forces, for example taking control of party members or causing them pain through making their blood boil in their veins?      This is what should make the Venatori so terrifying and why you need specialist people to deal with them.   We saw precious little evidence of it in game (which is why I found the mages in DAO  and even DA2 far more challenging), so I was hoping they might appear rather more formidable in the comics.  

[nightscrawl]

^ So I'm assuming that I should read it as, "There was really no need for specialist mage killers [in the Inquisition] either."

 

I don't think that's the point. I don't think they were recruited because they are mage killers, but because they are competent and capable and willing to take action when it is necessary, as we see in Crestwood. They took the initiative on their own, without being asked, ordered, or paid, just to help people. As the Inquisitor, I WANT people like them as part of the Inquisition, and I fully support their recruitment.

 

But again, I feel that this will get better once we move beyond the game. At this point, the game is only a hindrance to the comic's story and this first arc only seems like a long, drawn-out introduction more than anything else.

[vbibbi]

^ So I'm assuming that I should read it as, "There was really no need for specialist mage killers [in the Inquisition] either."
 
I don't think that's the point. I don't think they were recruited because they are mage killers, but because they are competent and capable and willing to take action when it is necessary, as we see in Crestwood. They took the initiative on their own, without being asked, ordered, or paid, just to help people. As the Inquisitor, I WANT people like them as part of the Inquisition, and I fully support their recruitment.
 
But again, I feel that this will get better once we move beyond the game. At this point, the game is only a hindrance to the comic's story and this first arc only seems like a long, drawn-out introduction more than anything else.

But it does seem strange to tout them as these highly skilled mage killers, and then for much of the introductory arc not actually show them performing their specialized skills. I know they kill some mages in the first issue, but I should think the Inquisition would try to best match agents to jobs rather than say "hey you're resourceful, want to take on a job any of my other agents could handle?" when there actually are jobs better suited to them (Venatori mages).

We'll have to see where the next arc goes, it just seems strange that the character introduction arc is just a rehash of the game, where anyone could replace their roles and nothing would change.

[nightscrawl]

^ Oh yes, I do agree there. Also, we haven't really seen anything special about Marius other than that he's a highly skilled warrior. What makes him different as perrepatate? In one of the Haven dialogues after Iron Bull's recruitment, he will remark on Cullen's templar training. If you ask him how he knows Cullen is a templar, Bull will say that he recognizes some of the skills used -- holding the shield in such a manner to deflect fire and acid away from the face -- as he received similar training to fight against Tevinter mages. Is that it? At this point, Marius does not seem unique, basically a templar without the lyrium.

[Heimdall]

This is why I feel like this arc is just an introduction to the stuff Rucka actually wants to write, or I hope so rather...

[Dai Grepher]

Sucks that Marius wasn't an NPC we could interact with. Especially in relation to Calpernia's story arc. I hope Leliana actually got some info from him about her, though I doubt the comic will show this, what with Calpernia's arc being optional and all.

[In Exile]

 This is what should make the Venatori so terrifying and why you need specialist people to deal with them.   We saw precious little evidence of it in game (which is why I found the mages in DAO  and even DA2 far more challenging), so I was hoping they might appear rather more formidable in the comics.  

 

Interesting you say that, because I found DAI/DA2 mages to - by far - be the greatest "challenge" compared to DA:O, but I use that word loosely because mages then to be fodder trash. In DA:O, it was just "Mana Clash" and then you could trollolol your way through everything. Hell, Mana Clash was so OP it obliterated mage bosses. In DA2, mages just didn't participate in fights most of the time, until they did, but you could cross-class-combo them into oblivion. At they same time, they had (on nightmare) basically a 1-hit KO AOE. That gets nerfed a bit for DA:I, but it becomes harder to dodge IMO. So I guess I'd say mages were: DA2 > DA:I >>>>> DA:O. 

[nightscrawl]

^ Urgh I hate that teleporting sh*t they do.

 

But it eventually becomes a conflict between gameplay and storytelling. In reality, mages would be rather godlike, but you can't accurately represent that when mages are 1/3 of your player class selection, because that then requires that 1/3 of your classes be godlike, so they have to tone both the class and NPC mages down to make them more reasonable and in-line with everyone else.

 

It's all well and good to want the Venatori depicted at these powerful mages where a special magekiller is needed, but that doesn't necessarily translate into gameplay mechanics, particularly when you are allowed some freedom of class and party selection and are not usually required to bring a certain party makeup in order to defeat some specific enemy.

[Gervaise]

I just remember the fact that in DAO I would suddenly find one of my party members having their blood boiled or being caught in a crushing prison.   That Tevinter Magister in the alienage suddenly decided to hit us with a blizzard, regardless of the fact that his own side would be caught in it too, so both sides were able to use the same spells.     I definitely recall the mages in DA2 causing me some trouble if I didn't keep my wits about me and take off after them when they teleported away from me.  There was a definite urgency to ensuring that I took down the enemy mages as soon as I could because of what they could do to my side if I didn't.

 

I honestly did not find the mages in DAI a significant problem; much of the time I just sent my rogue Inquisitor into stealth, crept up and one shotted them before they even knew we were there but even when I didn't they didn't seem to have much variety to their attacks or be able to employ the same sort of spells that we could.   I realise not all Venatori would be high level mages but you'd think that when we got to the higher levels that mages from Tevinter would have a bit more scope to their arsenal, particularly since they come from a place where illicit use of blood magic is meant to be endemic so according to WoT1 even the most devout mage "knows at least a little blood magic".   I'm pretty sure that Dorian knows the theory; he just has scruples against using it, something that would not be the case for the majority of the Venatori.    Why are they no longer able to cast blizzard (a regular spell) or firestorm (for some inexplicable reason now part of the Rift mage specialisation)?   What in the hell happened to crushing prison?    These were standard spells in DAO that our enemies used against us.      In DAI I even started to focus my attention more on the enemy rogues because they still seemed capable of causing comparable damage to my own team.

[SeaBassChen]

Well, at least their killing mages again, right? 

 

Is this arc only called "Magekiller," or is this the entire series title with all the arcs?

[Heimdall]

This is apparently the cover for issue five?  It's what's on the page for the issue but given the lack of text I'm thinking it's likely a placeholder

 

 

And a vague as hell teaser to the plot:

 

 

 

On Leliana’s orders, Marius and Tessa must take on an impossible task . . . a task that could mean life or death for the Inquisitor! Corypheus and the destruction of Thedas looms . . . but has the path our heroes have chosen to follow given them peace? The final battle rages, with the world’s future at stake!

[IllustriousT]

its going to begin with "Hi...I'm Tessa, and this is Marius, and we are magekillers. I know...you wondering why we aren't killing mages. Well, that's because we are fighting red templers in the Arbor Wilds. Red Templars are Templars that are corrupted by Red Lyrium. I don't know much about Red Lyrium, but the Inquisition sure thinks its important....."

 

Ahh...I hope this last issue is better. I keep having high hopes.

[Heimdall]

My guess: Corypheus has the red templars and/or venatori working on some special plan to kill the Inquisitor while s/he tries to reach the Temple of Mythal.  Marius and Tessa try and stop this plan.  Maybe it will somehow lead into what the two of them do after Inquisition?

 

its going to begin with "Hi...I'm Tessa, and this is Marius, and we are magekillers. I know...you wondering why we aren't killing mages. Well, that's because we are fighting red templers in the Arbor Wilds. Red Templars are Templars that are corrupted by Red Lyrium. I don't know much about Red Lyrium, but the Inquisition sure thinks its important....."

 

Ahh...I hope this last issue is better. I keep having high hopes.

Me too...  If it starts with another of Tessa's monologues, I swear I will slam my head into my desk in despair. 

[BansheeOwnage]

Those red templars look kind of orcish. Anyway, spoiler alert: The Inquisitor lives Dramatic tension removed!

[robertmarilyn]

Is that screenshot hiding the fact that Tessa has turned into a mermaid and no longer has legs? 

[BansheeOwnage]

Is that screenshot hiding the fact that Tessa has turned into a mermaid and no longer has legs? 

Yeah... I was wondering about that too. Seems odd.

[IllustriousT]

Is that the orb? It looks like the orb.

[Heimdall]

Yeah... I was wondering about that too. Seems odd.

 

Is that the orb? It looks like the orb.

Yeah, that's the orb, looks like.

[thats1evildude]

Those red templars look kind of orcish. Anyway, spoiler alert: The Inquisitor lives Dramatic tension removed!

Have you looked closely at the Red Templar Horrors or Knights? That's pretty accurate.

[BansheeOwnage]

Yeah, that's the orb, looks like.

I'm not so sure. If it is, that's a really weird angle. Is it in the air, close to the camera?

 

Have you looked closely at the Red Templar Horrors or Knights? That's pretty accurate.

Yeah, it's true, they're fairly monstrous. To be honest, I would have liked it better if they were more recognizably human ingame, because this just makes them seem like darkspawn. On the other hand, since they decided to take this route, they should have shown us some close-ups of them in cutscenes, because people can easily miss their appearance. Which was a common problem in DA:I overall.

 

Also, I was referring mostly to the one on the bottom with the enormous under-bite

[In Exile]

I just remember the fact that in DAO I would suddenly find one of my party members having their blood boiled or being caught in a crushing prison. That Tevinter Magister in the alienage suddenly decided to hit us with a blizzard, regardless of the fact that his own side would be caught in it too, so both sides were able to use the same spells. I definitely recall the mages in DA2 causing me some trouble if I didn't keep my wits about me and take off after them when they teleported away from me. There was a definite urgency to ensuring that I took down the enemy mages as soon as I could because of what they could do to my side if I didn't.

I honestly did not find the mages in DAI a significant problem; much of the time I just sent my rogue Inquisitor into stealth, crept up and one shotted them before they even knew we were there but even when I didn't they didn't seem to have much variety to their attacks or be able to employ the same sort of spells that we could. I realise not all Venatori would be high level mages but you'd think that when we got to the higher levels that mages from Tevinter would have a bit more scope to their arsenal, particularly since they come from a place where illicit use of blood magic is meant to be endemic so according to WoT1 even the most devout mage "knows at least a little blood magic". I'm pretty sure that Dorian knows the theory; he just has scruples against using it, something that would not be the case for the majority of the Venatori. Why are they no longer able to cast blizzard (a regular spell) or firestorm (for some inexplicable reason now part of the Rift mage specialisation)? What in the hell happened to crushing prison? These were standard spells in DAO that our enemies used against us. In DAI I even started to focus my attention more on the enemy rogues because they still seemed capable of causing comparable damage to my own team.

The standard spell in DAO is manaclash. The result is a dead mage. The sole challange was nightmare because enemy got a set spell failure chance. So it became necessary to lair on multiple mana clashes.

But otherwise mages were worthless in DAO, and if by some miracle they dodged 3 mana clashes a fireball x3 combo would obliterate the encounter.