522 réponses à ce sujet

[Face of Evil]

If mages could specialize to be magekillers, wouldn't EVERY mage in Tevinter do that? Be pretty stupid not to.

[nightscrawl]

If mages could specialize to be magekillers, wouldn't EVERY mage in Tevinter do that? Be pretty stupid not to.

Regardless of how useful it might be, people will always have their interests. Perhaps some really like the macabre nature of necromancy, as Dorian does, or being able to weaken enemies with entropy, or using runes, or healing, and so on.

[BansheeOwnage]

Weren't there two sets of animations, one the Mage switched two when the opponent was in melee range? That was great.

Yup, that's what it was, and it was great! The best of both worlds.

 

It is still combat filler, and a gamey element, rather than mages being established a melee fighters in the lore. My point still stands.

What? How is switching to melee when an enemy is within melee range filler or a gamey element? I mean sure, the DPS didn't change, but I'm not sure what you mean. I never implied that made all mages specialized melee combatants, just that it was smart and practical for any mage to enter melee combat when appropriate instead of flailing their staves around wildly when an enemy is within sword range. I thought adding blades to staves in Inquisition was a good idea even though you didn't use them.

[nightscrawl]

^ I wasn't referring to the melee switch, but the heavy focus on staff attacks that is present in both DA2 and DAI. Even if it is logical for them to switch, I still consider it mostly combat filler simply because of the way that mage abilities were significantly reduced in DA2 and further in DAI. I get that they wanted to reduce the OPness of the end-game DAO mage with their huge mana pools, but I think they went about it in the wrong way. It also doesn't help that the DA2 animation is absurd which also carries over into DAI. The DAO staff attack animation was also horrendous, and sluggish, but they went to the opposite extreme in the succeeding games.

 

My overall point was that, aside from that gamey element, the devs have not made the attempt to establish mages as being decent melee fighters or capable of being in melee range, which I don't think is realistic.

 

Consider Tevinter and their continual conflict with the Qunari. They are primarily melee fighters, with the occasional Saarebas to bolster their ranks. How do they kill the Vints? They get into melee range and bash them to death. Yes, mages are distance fighters, but so are archers, but battle is unpredictable. If this were any sort of real scenario, I don't doubt that Tevinter Circles would have some sort of physical education to supplement the magical training. I do not say it would be any great focus, but I do think there would be something.

[BansheeOwnage]

^ I wasn't referring to the melee switch, but the heavy focus on staff attacks that is present in both DA2 and DAI. Even if it is logical for them to switch, I still consider it mostly combat filler simply because of the way that mage abilities were significantly reduced in DA2 and further in DAI. I get that they wanted to reduce the OPness of the end-game DAO mage with their huge mana pools, but I think they went about it in the wrong way. It also doesn't help that the DA2 animation is absurd which also carries over into DAI. The DAO staff attack animation was also horrendous, and sluggish, but they went to the opposite extreme in the succeeding games.

 

My overall point was that, aside from that gamey element, the devs have not made the attempt to establish mages as being decent melee fighters or capable of being in melee range, which I don't think is realistic.

 

Consider Tevinter and their continual conflict with the Qunari. They are primarily melee fighters, with the occasional Saarebas to bolster their ranks. How do they kill the Vints? They get into melee range and bash them to death. Yes, mages are distance fighters, but so are archers, but battle is unpredictable. If this were any sort of real scenario, I don't doubt that Tevinter Circles would have some sort of physical education to supplement the magical training. I do not say it would be any great focus, but I do think there would be something.

Oh, I see. I don't have strong feelings about the look of the staff auto-attacks (it's mostly the abilities of rogues and warriors that are too extreme for me), but I do understand moving the staff around as a way of helping a mage use their mind. In the sense that in most universes with powers, a powered person will use hand movements and the like even though they don't actually need to (think the Force in Star Wars), because those movements help them... visualize?... What they're trying to will into happening (there are exceptions like Harry Potter where hand movement is actually a key part of spellcasting).

 

It's actually a lot like hand gestures in conversation. I also think staves themselves are a bit like training-wheels for mages, which is why the most powerful mages we've seen don't use them (Corypheus, the Architect, Flemeth, Solas). Solas doesn't even use gestures. Anyway.

 

Yeah, I do think it would be realistic for Tevinter mages to be trained to some degree in melee combat, even if that combat is magical in nature (like spirit-blades), or using the staff blades mentioned above. Possibly even using a second weapon in an emergency since they can still cast without a staff.

[Heimdall]

I would be shocked if Tevinter didn't have it's own Knight Enchanter-Arcane Warrior equivalent.

[Gervaise]

So far as needing to be good at melee, Tevinter mages really don't have to, at least in proper warfare, since they have huge numbers of non-mages to call on as cannon fodder.   They can use the classic combo of non-mage warriors engaging the enemy in hand to hand combat, while the mages bolster their allies with buffing spells and launch volley after volley of offensive spells at the enemy.  

 

Where it would pay to have melee ability would be when confronted by assassins in their own home or on the streets, where they might not have the luxury of large numbers of non-mages to protect them.   However, I assume that is why Denarius had Fenris and Marius was trained by his former master, because any Magister worth their salt is going to have at least one specialist body guard to accompany them at all times because otherwise they are going to be vulnerable in close combat.

[vbibbi]

So I'm finally reading Magekiller and am already predicting that if the main characters, Marius and Tessa, are in DA4, Marius at least will be a LI. And if he's going to be a bisexual LI, he's going to stick to Bioware's trope of bisexual guys who are more into women and have a canonical female LI in their past. He and Calpernia have a romantic history. If he's a LI and if Calpernia is alive and a significant role in the next game, it's going to grind my gears if part of his character arc is dealing with his past with her.

So I'm going to hope he's a straight LI if he is indeed a romanceable companion.


Tessa, on the other hand, has been shown to be attracted to women. And she looks to be a rogue, so she might again be a Bioware trope of roguish charming bisexual companion.

[Treacherous J Slither]

Tessa is not a formally trained mage killer -- the Tevinter term is perrepatae -- she is just Marius's tag-along rogue buddy. As of right now, we don't know how they got together. Marius was a slave, as Fenris was. I'm going to assume that Marius was trained with those skills to act as his master's body guard, just like Fenris, but without the fancy lyrium. I'd imagine that if Marius's master were attacked, that they would work together to subdue the threat -- a mage + warrior combo is a powerful one.

If we're looking at it from a strictly political view, having the ability to defeat your opponents in such a way would send a powerful message. It shows that you have resources to "waste," shows off your own skill with magical combat, and is a demonstration of what you are capable of.

Aside from those above, the writers of Dragon Age content haven't really attempted to have a great deal of mage physicality, mages who engage in physical combat while casting spells, aside from the rare specializations of Arcane Warrior (shown in DAO to be a lost art), and Knight Enchanter (said to be rare). I don't really count the staff flourishes of DA2 and DAI, as that is a very gamey element designed to act as combat filler when the player mage is not casting.

Mage + mage>any other combination

Showing your opponents that you are willing to waste resources is showing them that you are a fool.

I'd much rather have a bodyguard with magical powers than a bodyguard who's merely good with a sword.

No need for the Arcane Warrior or Knight Enchanter specs or anything like that. A few sustained spells like Haste and Miasma and you're good to go. Kinda hard to lose when you're waaaaay faster than everyone on the field.

Why resort to physical attacks at all though when you can immolate someone with a wave of your hand?

[JadeDragon]

I would be shocked if Tevinter didn't have it's own Knight Enchanter-Arcane Warrior equivalent.

Pretty much this. Arcane Warriors are Ancient Elf Close Combat Mages, Knight Enchanter are Southern Circle Combat Mages. Considering Tevinter should have more knowledge of the Arcane Warrior skills then the South it should be no surprise if they have some type of combat mage spec. 

[Qun00]

Honestly, it is obvious to me that the whole point of this comic was to introduce two DA4 companions (well, maybe just Marius).

[nightscrawl]

So I'm finally reading Magekiller and am already predicting that if the main characters, Marius and Tessa, are in DA4, Marius at least will be a LI. And if he's going to be a bisexual LI, he's going to stick to Bioware's trope of bisexual guys who are more into women and have a canonical female LI in their past. He and Calpernia have a romantic history. If he's a LI and if Calpernia is alive and a significant role in the next game, it's going to grind my gears if part of his character arc is dealing with his past with her.

So I'm going to hope he's a straight LI if he is indeed a romanceable companion.


Tessa, on the other hand, has been shown to be attracted to women. And she looks to be a rogue, so she might again be a Bioware trope of roguish charming bisexual companion.

Maker, I hope none of this happens. Besides, I want Charter to be a bi or lesbian option, and NOT someone with another roguish personality (in addition to being an actual rogue). Charter seems mature and experienced, and is a leader, and I'd love to have her as a f/f option. I'd also like to see her VA (same as Anora, I'm pretty sure!) have a greater role in a DA game than as a secondary character.

[vbibbi]

Maker, I hope none of this happens. Besides, I want Charter to be a bi or lesbian option, and NOT someone with another roguish personality (in addition to being an actual rogue). Charter seems mature and experienced, and is a leader, and I'd love to have her as a f/f option. I'd also like to see her VA (same as Anora, I'm pretty sure!) have a greater role in a DA game than as a secondary character.

Is that likely with Harding being a more likely candidate for companion and LI? I don't know how many Inquisition agents are going to be in Tevinter. I'm really hoping for a mostly new cast instead of more cameos.

Maybe the next issue will feature Charter more and we'll learn more about her.

[Shechinah]

I'm curious, can anyone tell me about Marius or Tessa's respective personalities?

[Heimdall]

I'm curious, can anyone tell me about Marius or Tessa's respective personalities?

Tessa is snarky and sarcastic, plus angry at her mum, being a rebellious sort.

 

Marius is like Fenris except less angry and more silently emotionless.

[vbibbi]

Tessa is snarky and sarcastic, plus angry at her mum, being a rebellious sort.
 
Marius is like Fenris except less angry and more silently emotionless.

Plus Marius doesn't hate mages or blame magic like Fenris does. He is very pragmatic and seems almost mournful (from Tessa's POV) when he kills a Mage.

I hope they reveal what a magekiller actually is, since he's been shown to block magic without explanation yet. Does he ingest lyrium like Templars?

[Heimdall]

Plus Marius doesn't hate mages or blame magic like Fenris does. He is very pragmatic and seems almost mournful (from Tessa's POV) when he kills a Mage.

I hope they reveal what a magekiller actually is, since he's been shown to block magic without explanation yet. Does he ingest lyrium like Templars?

He's not fond of Tevinter though.

I doubt he ingests lyrium. It's really unclear though what sets him apart from a standard warrior.

[thats1evildude]

Just finished Issue No. 5.

Spoiler

Well, I sure am glad Marius and Tessa were working behind the scenes of DAI to do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, YOU USELESS BASTARDS!

I shouldn't complain too much. The issue is very well-written and I enjoyed the appearance of Maryden and Sutherland's group, though the art was a bit off in places. That pride demon - yech.

But still, the point stands. They slew some demons while the actual important battle raged on elsewhere. Who cares?

[nightscrawl]

^ I... I just couldn't bring myself to care at all, really.
 
I realize it was heavily hinted at previously, but there goes my hope that Charter is a f/f romance option in DA4 >.>... Ah well. Also, was it already known that Sutherland's first name was Donal? I really couldn't help but adding a 'd' at the end of that whenever I saw it; that was distracting.

 

I'm not too keen on the spacing of the timeline and wish that the reopening of the Breach hadn't been instant simply because the game gives us that extra time to regroup. I realize that that is partly a gamey element, but it was jarring to see the difference in the comic.

[Heimdall]

Yeah... That whole scenario felt like a huge waste of time. Though this really seems to be confirming my feelings about this arc essentially being nothing more than in introduction to the characters.

I really can't bring myself to care at all about the whole thing right now. Maybe if they start a proper interesting storyline that explores the lore a little bit, I'll get back into it. On the upside, I think focusing on the bond between Tessa and Marius was a bit more interesting than anything they've done previously.

Well, now I just hope that Sutherland and crew stick around.

...I really need to stop making threats of self harm when it comes to Tessa's inner monologuing. It clearly isn't going away.

[nightscrawl]

Yeah... That whole scenario felt like a huge waste of time. Though this really seems to be confirming my feelings about this arc essentially being nothing more than in introduction to the characters.

I really can't bring myself to care at all about the whole thing right now. Maybe if they start a proper interesting storyline that explores the lore a little bit, I'll get back into it. On the upside, I think focusing on the bond between Tessa and Marius was a bit more interesting than anything they've done previously.

Well, now I just hope that Sutherland and crew stick around.

...I really need to stop making threats of self harm when it comes to Tessa's inner monologuing. It clearly isn't going away.

 

Yes... completely agree with all of this.

 

As contrary as it sounds, I'm actually looking forward to the next arc, moving beyond the game, AND possibly setting out on the path toward DA4.

[nightscrawl]

I've gotta say, the highlight of the whole thing for me was in seeing this guy... (image spam in the spoiler).

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

[Andromelek]

I've gotta say, the highlight of the whole thing for me was in seeing this guy... (image spam in the spoiler).

Spoiler

Ah, good Heimdall turns to be twirling mustache villain.

In all seriousness, I never truly was a fan of Harding, but I'm starting to believe that Marius/Tessa will fill the role of the dude that says "I used to be an agent of the Inquisition" instead of Harding.

[Heimdall]

I've gotta say, the highlight of the whole thing for me was in seeing this guy... (image spam in the spoiler).

Spoiler

As silly as his headpiece is, I agree.

I want more Tevinter, or more exploration of places we haven't been before in general, meeting new and interesting people...

[Shechinah]

As silly as his headpiece is, I agree.

I want more Tevinter, or more exploration of places we haven't been before in general, meeting new and interesting people...

He certainly seems an interesting fellow from what I've seen of him: that and I dig his wadrobe, oversized hat included. The shoulder set is equally as large so the hat does not seem out of place on the outfit: an impressive feat.  

 

I must also express my adoration for the outfit his posse wears. I swear I will be so disappointed should it not be in the next game, helmet included: I think I've fallen terribly in love with it ever since I saw it a fair time ago.  

 

Tevinter is a setting I am looking forward to learning more about especially the cultural and values dissonance I am expecting and hoping to experience in the next game.