1517 réponses à ce sujet

[SentinelMacDeath]

Since it's just for decoration what does it matter? Not all women have big breasts either

[SnakeCode]

Since it's just for decoration what does it matter? Not all women have big breasts either

 

It doesn't matter, which is why i'm not vehemently arguing against it's inclusion as though it's some crime against humanity, even though I personally don't like breastplate on an aesthetic level. I was simply clearing up some misinformation about how armor works.

[Seraphim24]

The notion about sexualization and objectification seems to have popped up which is slightly more... complex it seems to me.

 

In general, comics and really anime as well and a number of different things promoted the notion of the "sexualized" character, as opposed to a typical purely mainstream often puritanical perspective which is like Scarlet Letter frigidity.

 

By comparison to that norm, sexualization and objectification is good, permitting a wider range of sexual expression, at least if you compare it to frigid ice land where it's all only sex once at marriage for procreation.

 

The sphere of geekery was more permissive, hey, boyfriends and girlfriends can kiss, you can dress up, you can have sex more frequently/not limited to sex for procreation etc, you can go to parties dressed provocatively, again, all more positive elements.

 

However, I get the sense feminists etc are often perturbed not that it is shattering purtanical norms, but more by the sense that it only goes that far, sexualization and objectification.

 

Vicky Vale, Poison Ivy,  Catwoman, Psylocke, Mystique, Wonder Woman... the list goes on, all tend to have kind of provocative sort of appearances/modes, but as some have pointed out they tend to be limited to things like the overly optimistic girl next door attitude or kind of sidekick villains or something.

 

In other words, they are liberated from puritan land but now stuck in basic objectification land. Sure, Wonder Woman gets the costume, but that's basically it.

 

I think that's the essence of their issue, not about returning to a more conservative position, but the other way.

 

Of course, this neglects other points that have been covered at various times, such as these issues are not gender specific, such as, does making things more sexualized make things more sexuality positive in general? Moreover, these issues are not limited to one gender. There is also a matriarchy of sorts that revolves around desiring extremely limited male sexual expression, as well as men who have moved into that comic/anime role of more sexualized male characters.

 

Moreover, there is another side to that coin, the expanding role of woman as the objectifiers and as increasingly benevolent objectifiers (or something like that)

 

Finally, there are also other issues like LGBT expression and the relationship of that form of sexual expression. My sense is that as sexual expression becomes more permissive, they begin to evolve into increasing forms of tolerance, not only is it ok to kiss and touch more and have more sex, it is also ok to expand that into doing those things with the same gender, etc.

 

It seems to me the language of feminism etc needs to evolve to cover different phenemneon, and until people are more creative with how to deal with multi-faceted concerns, the risk of misinterpretation or misunderstanding and censure will remain higher.

 

Furthermore, there should be dedication towards understanding the outside sphere as well, like cross-communication.

[SnakeCode]

The problem with just coming out and saying " I don't like boobplate and it shouldn't be in the game because it sexualises women!" is that it usually devolves into a heated argument which inevitably leads to the thread being locked. It's probably the safer option to mention other reasons as to why you don't want it in the games, which is what people usually do.

[straykat]

The notion about sexualization and objectification seems to have popped up which is slightly more... complex it seems to me.

 

In general, comics and really anime as well and a number of different things promoted the notion of the "sexualized" character, as opposed to a typical purely mainstream often puritanical perspective which is like Scarlet Letter frigidity.

 

By comparison to that norm, sexualization and objectification is good, permitting a wider range of sexual expression, at least if you compare it to frigid ice land where it's all only sex once at marriage for procreation.

 

The sphere of geekery was more permissive, hey, boyfriends and girlfriends can kiss, you can dress up, you can have sex more frequently/not limited to sex for procreation etc, you can go to parties dressed provocatively, again, all more positive elements.

 

However, I get the sense feminists etc are often perturbed not that it is shattering purtanical norms, but more by the sense that it only goes that far, sexualization and objectification.

 

Vicky Vale, Poison Ivy,  Catwoman, Psylocke, Mystique, Wonder Woman... the list goes on, all tend to have kind of provocative sort of appearances/modes, but as some have pointed out they tend to be limited to things like the overly optimistic girl next door attitude or kind of sidekick villains or something.

 

In other words, they are liberated from puritan land but now stuck in basic objectification land. Sure, Wonder Woman gets the costume, but that's basically it.

 

I think that's the essence of their issue, not about returning to a more conservative position, but the other way.

 

Of course, this neglects other points that have been covered at various times, such as these issues are not gender specific, such as, does making things more sexualized make things more sexuality positive in general? Moreover, these issues are not limited to one gender. There is also a matriarchy of sorts that revolves around desiring extremely limited male sexual expression, as well as men who have moved into that comic/anime role of more sexualized male characters.

 

It seems to me the language of feminism etc needs to evolve to cover different phenemneon, and until people are more creative with how to deal with multi-faceted concerns, the risk of misinterpretation or misunderstanding and censure will remain higher.

 

It's kind of ironic with your Guinevere avatar.. I remember people complaining about that too.

[Lady Artifice]

I'm putting a hold on my participation in this discussion until I'm no longer under the influence of an excessive amount of sparkling wine. 

 

Happy New Year, everyone. 

 

Please don't get the thread locked. 

[Seraphim24]

The problem with just coming out and saying " I don't like boobplate and it shouldn't be in the game because it sexualises women!" is that it usually devolves into a heated argument which inevitably leads to the thread being locked. It's probably the safer option to mention other reasons as to why you don't want it in the games, which is what people usually do.

 

Heated arguments are good, they show what people actually care and want to talk about, as long as no one gets too nasty or vicious.

[Lady Artifice]

Or passive aggressive.

[Laughing_Man]

...as long as no one gets too nasty or vicious.

 

Or passive aggressive.

 

Meaning as long as a fire can catch to paper and not burn it?

 

Few people are really interested in an open discussion or any kind of compromise.

 

The real problem is extremism, no matter if it's radical feminists, radical racists, radical religion, etc.

 

Radical world views rarely allow for any others, and are not aimed at finding mutually beneficial solutions,

rather the total destruction (literal or metaphorical) of the opposite side.

[Lady Artifice]

Meaning as long as a fire can catch to paper and not burn it?

 

Few people are really interested in an open discussion or any kind of compromise.

 

The real problem is extremism, no matter if it's radical feminists, radical racists, radical religion, etc.

 

Radical world views rarely allow for any others, and are not aimed at finding mutually beneficial solutions,

rather the total destruction (literal or metaphorical) of the opposite side.

 

I dunno, I think this thread's done alright so far.

 

I just have to hope/trust it won't devolve into a...i'll think of a good description of something bad when I'm sober again. Good night. 

[Seraphim24]

Meaning as long as a fire can catch to paper and not burn it?

 

Few people are really interested in an open discussion or any kind of compromise.

 

The real problem is extremism, no matter if it's radical feminists, radical racists, radical religion, etc.

 

Radical world views rarely allow for any others, and are not aimed at finding mutually beneficial solutions,

rather the total destruction (literal or metaphorical) of the opposite side.

 

Arguably a radical position.

[Laughing_Man]

Arguably a radical position.

 

Ha!

 

See what I mean? Even agreeing that radical views that do not recognize others and are averse to any kind of dialogue that does not end with recognition and justification for them (they assume that they are completely right, and will simply not accept anything else) are disruptive to any compromise (which is more or less a fact) is apparently difficult.

 

Do you think it becomes easier on heavier topics that are even harder to agree on?...

 

A heated argument on itself rarely achieves anything if you can't reach a common ground.

[Seraphim24]

Ha!

 

See what I mean? Even agreeing that radical views that do not recognize others and are averse to any kind of dialogue that does not end with recognition and justification for them (they assume that they are completely right, and will simply not accept anything else) are disruptive to any compromise (which is more or less a fact) is apparently difficult.

 

Do you think it becomes easier on heavier topics that are even harder to agree on?...

 

A heated argument on itself rarely achieves anything if you can't reach a common ground.

 

It's true though, radical positions are ok at times, like saying Domino's Pizza is terrible.

[Laughing_Man]

It's true though, radical positions are ok at times, like saying Domino's Pizza is terrible.

 

Ah, terrible it might be, but is it the worst?

 

Trust me, never say that it can't get nastier than something, because there is always something worse...

[Sarayne]

It's true though, radical positions are ok at times, like saying Domino's Pizza is terrible.

TRUE! Domino's pizza is God awful and i think we can all agree with that.

[Seraphim24]

Ah, terrible it might be, but is it the worst?

 

Trust me, never say that it can't get nastier than something, because there is always something worse...

 

I didn't say it was the worst, unless you want to argue that "terrible" is insufficient degree to qualify as a "radical" statement.

 

But I can also tell you that this conversation is radically sucking since it was mostly just a silly jibe I was making rather than intended to be of sufficiently radically great value.

[Laughing_Man]

I didn't say it was the worst, unless you want to argue that "terrible" is insufficient degree to qualify as a "radical" statement.

 

But I can also tell you that this conversation is radically sucking since it was mostly just a silly jibe I was making rather than of sufficiently radically great value.

 

Hmm... lemme consider if this is a radical statement or not.

 

In the meantime, congratz on the new avatar...

 

P.S.

 

Regarding the word "Terrible", I'll quote Garrick Ollivander: "...After all, He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named did great things — terrible, yes, but great."

 

Chef: Did you enjoy the food?

Me: It was terrible.

Chef: ...

Me: Terrible, but great.

Chef: ... :-@#$%

[Seraphim24]

Hmm... lemme consider if this is a radical statement or not.

 

In the meantime, congratz on the new avatar...

 

I like apples.

[Laughing_Man]

I like apples.

 

We can C Dat.

[Puddi III]

Apples are the worst fruit.

Back on topic: tank dogs.

[Zazzerka]

TRUE! Domino's pizza is God awful and i think we can all agree with that.

 

As a Dominos employee, you've cut me real deep.

 

Spoiler

nah jk the stuff is rancid

[Laughing_Man]

Back on topic: tank dogs.

 

...are the worst tanks?

[SnakeCode]

...are the worst tanks?

 

But the best dogs.

[Akrabra]

TRUE! Domino's pizza is God awful and i think we can all agree with that.

As someone who didn't try Domino's pizza before his early 20's (We don't have it here in Norway), i would say it was a fairly decent pizza. Then again i was hungry at the time, and i had just spent a day at Gamescom, so my standard wasn't that high. 

[Zazzerka]

As someone who didn't try Domino's pizza before his early 20's (We don't have it here in Norway), i would say it was a fairly decent pizza. Then again i was hungry at the time, and i had just spent a day at Gamescom, so my standard wasn't that high. 

 

As a Dominos employee, I'm glad you survived, and I hope you order from us again.