1517 réponses à ce sujet

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Good because the Navy uses exactly the same 

I know, hence the "Plus the Navy's is practically identical" part.

[SentinelMacDeath]

Current standard (as far as I know) is the CWU-27/P Nomex flight suit

 

[SentinelMacDeath]

I'm just saying this because there is no real "Air Force" aesthetic or I don't see it. 

[karushna5]

I'm just saying this because there is no real "Air Force" aesthetic or I don't see it. 

Naw but as far as llooks go sometimes you need to be unrealistic to tell a good story. There are no explosions in space, and no noise but that would be a boring space battle. I mean a work of fiction especially sci fi needs pizzazz even if it goes against the norm.

 

Pilots looking special is cool, makes it feel more involved and doesn't hurt the fiction. I think that makes cool pilot outfits a good idea.

 

Personally I just want them to keep the adventure. The feel of it, too much realism can ruin a good story, but I admit I am not the most visual person.

[Master Warder Z_]

Naw but as far as llooks go sometimes you need to be unrealistic to tell a good story. There are no explosions in space, and no noise but that would be a boring space battle. I mean a work of fiction especially sci fi needs pizzazz even if it goes against the norm.

 

Pilots looking special is cool, makes it feel more involved and doesn't hurt the fiction. I think that makes cool pilot outfits a good idea.

 

Personally I just want them to keep the adventure. The feel of it, too much realism can ruin a good story, but I admit I am not the most visual person.

 

Well that's not necessarily true, for example say I jettisoned a brick of Semtex out of a airlock in deep space, If I had wired that thing up to blow, it would still detonate in space. Explosives still explode in space, there is just no oxygen to transmit sound, or blast wave, you won't get concussive waves of force from  a explosion in space, you will have momentum put on objects,  So yeah, cruise missiles, grenades, bombs, whatever still would work in space, as long as you don't need a open source of oxygen to burn propellant, say like on high end engines.

 

Explosions are just different in space, the rules change because physics change.

[Laughing_Man]

Well that's not necessarily true, for example say I jettisoned a brick of Semtex out of a airlock in deep space, If I had wired that thing up to blow, it would still detonate in space. Explosives still explode in space, there is just no oxygen to transmit sound, or blast wave, you won't get concussive waves of force from  a explosion in space, you will have momentum put on objects,  So yeah, cruise missiles, grenades, bombs, whatever still would work in space, as long as you don't need a open source of oxygen to burn propellant, say like on high end engines.

 

Explosions are just different in space, the rules change because physics change.

 

Yeah, IIRC there would be a release of energy mainly via light and/or radiation.

 

That said, space ships do contain oxygen, so they will blow up rather spectacularly. Probably.

[karushna5]

Well that's not necessarily true, for example say I jettisoned a brick of Semtex out of a airlock in deep space, If I had wired that thing up to blow, it would still detonate in space. Explosives still explode in space, there is just no oxygen to transmit sound, or blast wave, you won't get concussive waves of force from  a explosion in space, you will have momentum put on objects,  So yeah, cruise missiles, grenades, bombs, whatever still would work in space, as long as you don't need a open source of oxygen to burn propellant, say like on high end engines.

 

Explosions are just different in space, the rules change because physics change.

 

I am making broad statements, I mean more that any story based on real events has been dramatized the life out of it. Things in stories need to lean toward the cool effect, the more realistic, the more it feels like real life and not a story. Its why we call characters whiny when we would have complained way more than them in similiar circumstances. And also why things are based hugely on what looks good when it comes to these things than purely based on the most serious interpretation.

 

Audiences need to be entertained and pure realism is rarely entertaining or else war movies wouldn't be so popular and heroes would quip less and deal with trauma more. I think this applies doublt to looks because it doesn't harm the narrative and can actually bring you more into the story by getting your primary sense on board.

[Laughing_Man]

I am making broad statements, I mean more that any story based on real events has been dramatized the life out of it. Things in stories need to lean toward the cool effect, the more realistic, the more it feels like real life and not a story. Its why we call characters whiny when we would have complained way more than them in similiar circumstances. And also why things are based hugely on what looks good when it comes to these things than purely based on the most serious interpretation.

 

Audiences need to be entertained and pure realism is rarely entertaining or else war movies wouldn't be so popular and heroes would quip less and deal with trauma more. I think this applies doublt to looks because it doesn't harm the narrative and can actually bring you more into the story by getting your primary sense on board.

 

Sure, but you can still do all this while maintaining a facade of "realism" i.e. no noise in space, no exposed skin in space, etc.

Token realism during fighting and in regards to technology in general will make the game all the better.

 

Sure, we need space magic for things to work, but there is a huge difference if you use the "space magic" handwave all the time, or only when you must.

[karushna5]

Sure, but you can still do all this while maintaining a facade of "realism" i.e. no noise in space, no exposed skin in space, etc.

Token realism during fighting and in regards to technology in general will make the game all the better.

 

Sure, we need space magic for things to work, but there is a huge difference if you use the "space magic" handwave all the time, or only when you must.

 

I agree entirely. My original point was actually about the pilots outfit. Pilots don't need to have special outfits, but it would be cooler if they did and more immersive, since it is entirely cosmetic it should be special.

[Master Warder Z_]

Yeah, IIRC there would be a release of energy mainly via light and/or radiation.

 

That said, space ships do contain oxygen, so they will blow up rather spectacularly. Probably.

 

Hence why the explosions in modern Gundam fiction are centered around just bursts or gouts of flame, and warped shrapnel over a 'cone' or conventional boom. You have explosions in space, but I think those tiny attentions to detail make it all the better because you aren't having the silly just spherical explosions, that would occur in a gravity well such as a planet, our explosions form that way due to the physics of our planet, in space minus that you can only have what is present effecting the explosion.

 

.-.

 

In retrospect I think that Mass Effect would have benefit greatly from focusing on just inflicting lethal and realistic damage, it would add to the experience, you don't need massive explosions, they don't hurt but I think smaller explosions, hulls tearing away and portions of the ship just being flung inward due to blasts and energy would make it come across as a more serious threat then, say massive beams of energy or liquid metal, or conventional shells hitting and just outright destroying a vessel.

[Lady Artifice]

Thank you all for keeping this thread interesting. I love that I can learn something about physics in a discussion about space combat aesthetics.

[SardaukarElite]

Because the real life space program is also part of the Navy not the Air Force. The Navy has leather flying jackets for their flight crews too (I guess that's the aesthetic you're going for?) It's the G-1, the Airforce has the A-2 

 

Because in reality, the Air Force flight suits are really really REALLY not attractive at all. Drab olive green coverall ...

 

Navy pilots still look like pilots. I think the point Aimi and I were making (while clowning around) was that ME is invoking the look and terminology of sailors and (blue-water) ships not pilots and aircraft. Branches of your modern military of choice and what they actually wear aren't the real issue. 

[Jorji Costava]

I don't think that those two things are mutually exclusive.

 

In the WH40K universe you see many examples of pilots connected to their craft (in a rather grotesque manner obviously, because it's WH40K...)

and it's very obvious what their job is. Clicking buttons and using a flight stick, is simply not efficient enough if you need to react against futuristic drones,

VI's, AI's, and the realities of air/space combat in speeds that far exceed what we can imagine today.

 

One of the staples of Shadowrun (and cyberpunk IIRC) is the idea of weapons / vehicles / computers / aircraft connected to the user's brain via some kind of "DataJack". It helps lift performance to a different level if you can have an entire HUD in your head and activate things with a thought.

 

So yeah, I maintain that a pilot sitting in a specialized chair, wearing a VR helmet and connected via neural link can look every bit the pilot that he is. The question is mainly a question of how to portray this the best, because I'm sure a decent artist can do it rather easily.

 

All fair points, but my question is this: Would such a design be expressive enough? You can convey a lot of emotion by having the pilot pushing random buttons on their consoles frantically as their circumstances become more stressful and difficult; not sure if you can do this as easily if people just controlling ships with their minds. Quick example: In Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan, there's a sequence where crew members are manually pulling grates off a torpedo launch bay in preparation for battle. This is utterly pointless, of course, as realistically, this process would be automated. But the point is to convey a sense of movement and dynamism, to show that the crew is getting ready for $#!& to get real.

 

I don't mean to come off as such a naysayer, and I don't want to say that this kind of thing can't be done well, but what I'm cautioning against is the idea that aesthetic design should be dictated by in-universe plausibility and little else. There are other considerations that generally get ignored in these conversations, and which I wanted to bring attention to.

 

Also, this might be relevant.

[Steelcan]

Thank you all for keeping this thread interesting. I love that I can learn something about physics in a discussion about space combat aesthetics.

ewwww physics

[Jorji Costava]

ewwww physics

 

[Aimi]

ewwww physics

gotta know physics to talk about chemical-explosive ballistic projectiles, which are kind of important for military history

[Master Warder Z_]

gotta know physics to talk about chemical-explosive ballistic projectiles, which are kind of important for military history

 

Only slightly.

 

Ever so slightly.

[Steelcan]

gotta know physics to talk about chemical-explosive ballistic projectiles, which are kind of important for military history

yeah but my interests in history lie somewhat much prior to the use of such weaponry, unless you want to count flaming ammunition for catapults and whatnot

[Lady Artifice]

ewwww physics

 

It usually goes quite over my head. Fortunately I find people who can explain parts of it in a way I understand every once and a while. Props help. 

 

"This is how the feather fall outside the container, and this is how it fall inside the container."

[Steelcan]

It usually goes quite over my head. Fortunately I find people who can explain parts of it in a way I understand every once and a while. Props help. 

 

"This is how the feather fall outside the container, and this is how it fall inside the container."

lol air resistance I take it?

[Lady Artifice]

Exactly! I understood that part. You know. Eventually. 

[Steelcan]

Exactly! I understood that part. You know. Eventually. 

I'll stick to my books on names, wars, and policies

 

also food

[Laughing_Man]

All fair points, but my question is this: Would such a design be expressive enough? You can convey a lot of emotion by having the pilot pushing random buttons on their consoles frantically as their circumstances become more stressful and difficult; not sure if you can do this as easily if people just controlling ships with their minds. Quick example: In Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan, there's a sequence where crew members are manually pulling grates off a torpedo launch bay in preparation for battle. This is utterly pointless, of course, as realistically, this process would be automated. But the point is to convey a sense of movement and dynamism, to show that the crew is getting ready for $#!& to get real.

 

I don't mean to come off as such a naysayer, and I don't want to say that this kind of thing can't be done well, but what I'm cautioning against is the idea that aesthetic design should be dictated by in-universe plausibility and little else. There are other considerations that generally get ignored in these conversations, and which I wanted to bring attention to.

 

Also, this might be relevant.

 

I do agree to some degree, and understand your reasoning.

 

That said, keep in mind that showing dramatic shots of an advanced completely automated weapons system clicking and clacking into position and then

launching a devastating barrage, has it's own sense of power and action.

 

You don't have to show soldiers firing muskets and blunderbusses to push the drama in a war movie, advanced war machines are very impressive

on their own right, and they make more sense for the setting.

 

Instead of Joker doing his insane DJ impersonation on the Normandy's haptics (without any regard to his disability I might add...),

you could be more subtle and show the pressure in minute details - facial muscles flexing, sweat, biting lips / tongue, the occasional exclamation, etc.

 

Most of the time Mass Effect simply does not feel like true Sci-Fi precisely because of the adherence to technology that conveniently looks very similar

to today's technology, which from their perspective would be similar to modeling our own technology on "technology" from 1800 - 1900...

 

 

What I'm saying is, you can do both, drama and impressive future tech are not mutually exclusive, and in a Sci-Fi story it has added value.

[Puddi III]

Pilots obviously should wear plug suits and be submerged in breathable liquid to fully synchronize with the new reaper enhanced biosynthetic humanoid ship designs.

[Laughing_Man]

Pilots obviously should wear plug suits and be submerged in breathable liquid to fully synchronize with the new reaper enhanced biosynthetic humanoid ship designs.

 

I wouldn't quite go to this extreme, but the basic idea has merit. (pilots connected to ship)