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[DarkLordAngel916]

I'm paraphrasing so“bear with me” pleas... at the Ending  of mass effect 3   Commander Shepard   Asked the Star child  who created the crucible the star child proceeded to say to Shepard you don't  know them and there's not enough time to explain...something like that my question is do you think that the people that the star child mentioned to Commander Shepard he didn't know are the Remnant from mass effect Andromeda?

[Lady Artifice]

Edit: My mistake, I misunderstood the question. 

[Killroy]

The Leviathan DLC has the answers you're looking for. A YouTube search would be your best option.

As for whether they're the remnant, I'd say probably not.

 

The Leviathan DLC reveals who originally came up with the Crucible?

[Lady Artifice]

The Leviathan DLC reveals who originally came up with the Crucible?

 

Nope, you're right, it doesn't. 

 

I blame Nyquil for my failure to understand the question at first reading. 

[AlanC9]

Some people believe it implies that they invented it, though.

[Remix-General Aetius]

Well, allegedly there are mass relays in Andromeda.....and the Reapers claim full credit for creating them, so it's possible.

[Applepie_Svk]

The Leviathan DLC reveals who originally came up with the Crucible?

 

There are three paths in which Crucible could be developed:

 

Firstly, AI-Catalyst-Reapers did it, none ever made it so far with cycle than Shepard, none ever knew about purpose of Citadel nor stoped Citadel relay from invasion, so the Reapers always started invasion and shut down the relay network, which simply makes possibility of Crucible being even developed by the first cycle impossible. It´s even said that Shepard is the first organic that ever made it there, and if it´s true that Crucible is just a power source than Citadel is the one with the choices, so that Catalyst had to leak design. Outcome is that Catalyst is simply decieving Shepard. 

 

Secondly, Leviathans did it, by using lesser species and leaving the pattern for each new cycle. Whole scene with Leviathan hasn´t been somehow special, all the questions asked were answered without a doubt in matter of seconds, however in this case, Leviathan had a second of pause and camera is focused on eyes for some reason, see the video below.

https://youtu.be/lEqlG6bhZ80?t=6m15s

Again, outcome is that Shepard is being decieved by Leviathan.

 

Thirdly, some random specie has managed to invent the Crucible, but as I mentioned in first two points, it´s highly unlikely that they did it on their own. However if it´s true that they did, it´s breaking whole narrative of the ending, because it would mean that Vendetta is true key to the Crucible which is far more than just a power source and Citadel is true Catalyst without an AI, which points to that the ending is red herring(Indoctrination or whatever theory). 

Outcome is that, Vendetta truly knows how to operate Crucible and most that is told in the end is simply attempt to decieve you in order to stop the Crucible.

[themikefest]

Here's speculation from me of who might be the ones who designed the plans for the crucible

[Han Shot First]

 

Secondly, Leviathans did it, by using lesser species and leaving the pattern for each new cycle. Whole scene with Leviathan hasn´t been somehow special, all the questions asked were answered without a doubt in matter of seconds, however in this case, Leviathan had a second of pause and camera is focused on eyes for some reason, see the video below.

https://youtu.be/lEqlG6bhZ80?t=6m15s

 

Again, outcome is that Shepard is being decieved by Leviathan.

 

 

Of all the options, I think that one is my favorite because it makes the Leviathans into something more than just passive observers. In that scenario they actually have a plan for taking back the galaxy through proxies, and aren't just hiding and hoping for the best.

 

The only issue is that IIRC the Leviathan Shepard has a conversation with implied that they didn't create it. It has been awhile since I've played the DLC, but I believe it says that they first noticed the Crucible several cycles back, implying that another species was responsible for its creation. If so however, that doesn't necessarily rule out Leviathan involvement. I think they would make a lot of sense to be the ones making sure the Crucible plans survive to get rediscovered from cycle to cycle.

[Kabooooom]

Of all the options, I think that one is my favorite because it makes the Leviathans into something more than just passive observers. In that scenario they actually have a plan for taking back the galaxy through proxies, and aren't just hiding and hoping for the best.

The only issue is that IIRC the Leviathan Shepard has a conversation with implied that they didn't create it. It has been awhile since I've played the DLC, but I believe it says that they first noticed the Crucible several cycles back, implying that another species was responsible for its creation. If so however, that doesn't necessarily rule out Leviathan involvement. I think they would make a lot of sense to be the ones making sure the Crucible plans survive to get rediscovered from cycle to cycle.

Agreed. What is especially curious is that the Crucible works explicitly with the Citadel, and the "decision chamber" is, in fact, on the Citadel and NOT the Crucible. Even more curious, Javik explicitly states that in his cycle, the Reapers planted the idea of the feasibility of control and attempted to sabotage the Crucible through a surrogate Cerberus-equivalent group. Which somewhat implies to me that Control is a derivative function, necessitating initial modification, and that the original function of the Crucible is probably to destroy the Reapers.

And so, whoever designed the Crucible had to have knowledge of the Catalyst and what the Citadel actually is, or the thing wouldn't work. You can't design a gun in pieces with no foreknowledge of what a gun is. You have to have some idea of what you are building. So whoever made the Crucible had to have knowledge which in our cycle only the Reapers and Leviathans possess.

Which is curious, but circumstantial evidence. With how the Leviathan reacts to the question, it is clear that it knows more than its letting on - regardless of if they built it or not.

[Han Shot First]

Agreed. What is especially curious is that the Crucible works explicitly with the Citadel, and the "decision chamber" is, in fact, on the Citadel and NOT the Crucible. Even more curious, Javik explicitly states that in his cycle, the Reapers planted the idea of the feasibility of control and attempted to sabotage the Crucible through a surrogate Cerberus-equivalent group. Which somewhat implies to me that Control is a derivative function, necessitating initial modification, and that the original function of the Crucible is probably to destroy the Reapers.

And so, whoever designed the Crucible had to have knowledge of the Catalyst and what the Citadel actually is, or the thing wouldn't work. You can't design a gun in pieces with no foreknowledge of what a gun is. You have to have some idea of what you are building. So whoever made the Crucible had to have knowledge which in our cycle only the Reapers and Leviathans possess.

Which is curious, but circumstantial evidence. With how the Leviathan reacts to the question, it is clear that it knows more than its letting on - regardless of if they built it or not.

 

Another element that might point to Leviathan involvement, sort of related to the bolded, is that the Catalyst is curiously passive in the decision chamber. It not only makes no effort to resist, distract, or mislead Shepard...but actively aids potentially in it's own destruction. Shepard is unconscious when transported to the decision chamber by the Catalyst, and it is the Catalyst that reveals the means in which Shepard could destroy it.

 

One would think that would not have been a function of its original programming. You'd want your A.I. to have some form of self-preservation instinct, even if limited, otherwise it might destroy itself. The Leviathans for example wouldn't have wanted their version of Skynet to determine that it was a Synthetic, and that since it was programmed to see all Synthetics as threats that must be dealt with, to conclude that it must delete itself. Evidence for the Catalyst originally having some form of self-preservation instinct beyond not deleting itself, is that the Reapers, who are joined with it in some form of a gestalt intelligence, violently oppose Shepard until the final moments of the series. The Collectors, who were little more than remote controlled organic drones, also tracked down and destroyed the Normandy, killing Shepard in the process.

 

That raises the question of whether the docking of the Crucible may have also altered the Catalyst's code in some way. If the Catalyst's coding was altered in any way, the Leviathans would have to be the most likely suspects, since they created it and may have been the only faction until the current cycle to even know of the Catalyst's existence.

[Master Warder Z_]

That raises the question of whether the docking of the Crucible may have also altered the Catalyst's code in some way. If the Catalyst's coding was altered in any way, the Leviathans would have to be the most likely suspects, since they created it and may have been the only faction until the current cycle to even know of the Catalyst's existence.

 

It pointedly welcomed their involvement as it claimed to be merely fulfilling their will even then.

[AlanC9]

Agreed. What is especially curious is that the Crucible works explicitly with the Citadel, and the "decision chamber" is, in fact, on the Citadel and NOT the Crucible. Even more curious, Javik explicitly states that in his cycle, the Reapers planted the idea of the feasibility of control and attempted to sabotage the Crucible through a surrogate Cerberus-equivalent group. Which somewhat implies to me that Control is a derivative function, necessitating initial modification, and that the original function of the Crucible is probably to destroy the Reapers.

Or the original function is Synthesis and both Destroy and Control are derivative applications. Note that high-EMS states -- the best-built and most-intact Crucible -- are the only ones where you get Synthesis.

Is Synthesis a desirable end-state for Leviathans?

[Kabooooom]

Or the original function is Synthesis and both Destroy and Control are derivative applications. Note that high-EMS states -- the best-built and most-intact Crucible -- are the only ones where you get Synthesis.

Is Synthesis a desirable end-state for Leviathans?

One argument for that might be that synthesis is a desirable end state for the Catalyst, and the Leviathans would be aware of this, most likely.

Really, I agree, the Leviathans look suspiciously responsible for the Crucible. Or, since the Catalyst denies this, they look responsible for modifying the Crucible (after whoever first started it) to utilize the Citadel and Catalyst.

And the motive is there too - why would they not? They are perhaps the only beings alive that understand the Catalysts motives and how it might be stopped.

[SentinelMacDeath]

I doubt that Synthesis would be a desirable outcome for the Leviathans. They want to be once again on the top of the food chain after, who knows how many, years have gone by. Synthesis would put them on pretty much equal footing with the rest of the, now not so organic anymore, organics. 

[Applepie_Svk]

Of all the options, I think that one is my favorite because it makes the Leviathans into something more than just passive observers. In that scenario they actually have a plan for taking back the galaxy through proxies, and aren't just hiding and hoping for the best.

 

The only issue is that IIRC the Leviathan Shepard has a conversation with implied that they didn't create it. It has been awhile since I've played the DLC, but I believe it says that they first noticed the Crucible several cycles back, implying that another species was responsible for its creation. If so however, that doesn't necessarily rule out Leviathan involvement. I think they would make a lot of sense to be the ones making sure the Crucible plans survive to get rediscovered from cycle to cycle.

 

I believe that AI has been created not because a conflict betwen the organics and synthetics, but betwen the organic-puppets and synthetics, as Leviathan said tribute does not come from a dead race. That´s why is probably most desired of all paths is synthesis, because it merge all of organics with synthetics which gives to Leviathans an open doors to control everything and everyone.

[SentinelMacDeath]

I believe that AI has been created not because a conflict betwen the organics and synthetics, but betwen the organic-puppets and synthetics, as Leviathan said tribute does not come from a dead race. That´s why is probably most desired of all paths is synthesis, because it merge all of organics with synthetics which gives to Leviathans open doors to control everything and everyone.

 

it would change up the Leviathans too though

[Applepie_Svk]

it would change up the Leviathans too though

 

Unless they´ve made sure that it won´t happen.

[SentinelMacDeath]

Unless they´ve made sure that it won´t happen.

 

They would have needed to be very fast to adapt then because only Shep made Synthesis even possible as an option. 

[Kabooooom]

I doubt that Synthesis would be a desirable outcome for the Leviathans. They want to be once again on the top of the food chain after, who knows how many, years have gone by. Synthesis would put them on pretty much equal footing with the rest of the, now not so organic anymore, organics.

I was saying it was desirable for them solely because it is desirable for the Catalyst. I agree, they would be on equal footing. But that is infinitely preferable to extinction. While they lasted 2 billion years in hiding, there would be no guarantee that they wouldn't be found eventually.

[SentinelMacDeath]

I was saying it was desirable for them solely because it is desirable for the Catalyst. I agree, they would be on equal footing. But that is infinitely preferable to extinction. While they lasted 2 billion years in hiding, there would be no guarantee that they wouldn't be found eventually.

 

debatable since nobody really knows what Synthesis does to the organics in the long run 

[Lebanese Dude]

debatable since nobody really knows what Synthesis does to the organics in the long run 

 

My theory is that the inherently flawed organic matter eventually mutates and gets rid of the synthetic DNA parts since they are immutable and unchanging.

 

Eventually everyone returns to an organic state. Even the robots.

[Applepie_Svk]

I was saying it was desirable for them solely because it is desirable for the Catalyst. I agree, they would be on equal footing. But that is infinitely preferable to extinction. While they lasted 2 billion years in hiding, there would be no guarantee that they wouldn't be found eventually.

 

debatable since nobody really knows what Synthesis does to the organics in the long run 

 

 

That´s a question, Catalyst came with his solution as the top of the evolution of organic and synthetic life, however Leviathans were still evolving over those years beyond the level at which they did invented the Catalyst, beyond the 50 thousand years that are required from cycle, beyond the level of evolution of any organism within the cycle. They are simply the apex in the organic evolution, of pure organic nature, while Catalyst came to it´s apex long ago and hasn´t changed over the milenia, because it wasn´t required since he believed to be at top of the chain.

[SentinelMacDeath]

Well the Leviathans had hundreds of thousands of ears to keep evolving. The cycles are only 50,000 years now because the Reapers helped with speeding it up. They may as well speed it up even further to harvest data faster and faster if not stopped. 

[N7M]

There are three paths in which Crucible could be developed:

 

Firstly, AI-Catalyst-Reapers did it, none ever made it so far with cycle than Shepard, none ever knew about purpose of Citadel nor stoped Citadel relay from invasion, so the Reapers always started invasion and shut down the relay network, which simply makes possibility of Crucible being even developed by the first cycle impossible. It´s even said that Shepard is the first organic that ever made it there, and if it´s true that Crucible is just a power source than Citadel is the one with the choices, so that Catalyst had to leak design. Outcome is that Catalyst is simply decieving Shepard. 

 

Secondly, Leviathans did it, by using lesser species and leaving the pattern for each new cycle. Whole scene with Leviathan hasn´t been somehow special, all the questions asked were answered without a doubt in matter of seconds, however in this case, Leviathan had a second of pause and camera is focused on eyes for some reason, see the video below.

https://youtu.be/lEqlG6bhZ80?t=6m15s

Again, outcome is that Shepard is being decieved by Leviathan.

 

Thirdly, some random specie has managed to invent the Crucible, but as I mentioned in first two points, it´s highly unlikely that they did it on their own. However if it´s true that they did, it´s breaking whole narrative of the ending, because it would mean that Vendetta is true key to the Crucible which is far more than just a power source and Citadel is true Catalyst without an AI, which points to that the ending is red herring(Indoctrination or whatever theory). 

Outcome is that, Vendetta truly knows how to operate Crucible and most that is told in the end is simply attempt to decieve you in order to stop the Crucible.

 

It's possible a species under Reaper attack may have been inspired to create something along the lines of the Crucible once it's revealed to them that the Citadel is a Mass Relay. Getting to the idea to destroy the relay network to slow or even destroy the Reapers by using the Citadel and relay network is not that big of a jump. It's possible they may have known more about the Citadel than other cycles due to particular circumstance. Subsequent species could develop on the technology if the knowledge was preserved either by precursors, Leviathans or the Catalyst. In this scenario it's doubtful synthesis or control would be an option but could be something that was added to the original design.