216 réponses à ce sujet

[ComedicSociopathy]

I'd say Sisko was the Renegade of that trio - the latter turned really ruthless a couple times during the Dominion War. Janeway was actually pretty consistent in insisting that they continue to uphold Starfleet/Federation principles while they were stuck in the Delta Quadrant, though she had her "Renegade" moments here and there.

 

True. But Sisko managed to sound rational when he broke Starfleet principles, while Janeway acted like a demented suicidal hypocritical lunatic whenever she held them up. 

[Undead Han]

Renegade should be more about the good guy or gal doing a bad thing because in their view, it serves the greater good. 

 

Renegade too often in Mass Effect, boiled down to being a jerk just for the sake of being a jerk. This is what Renegade should look like:

 

[ComedicSociopathy]

You know the funny thing about that scene is that the torture is entirely ineffective and the terrorist only starts giving information after he's been fed and treated decently. 

[Shechinah]

True. But Sisko managed to sound rational when he broke Starfleet principles, while Janeway acted like a demented suicidal hypocritical lunatic whenever she held them up. 

 

I tend to prefer SfDebris!Janeway who acted like a hilarious demented suicidal hypocritical lunatic whenever she held up Starfleet principles.
 

[Ahglock]

You know the funny thing about that scene is that the torture is entirely ineffective and the terrorist only starts giving information after he's been fed and treated decently.

So the torture worked then.

[themikefest]

Renegade too often in Mass Effect, boiled down to being a jerk just for the sake of being a jerk.

ME3 needed a lot more renegade in the game. There were several spots in the game that needed renegade moments
 

This is what Renegade should look like:

Not bad

[SentinelMacDeath]

what's with all the last name hate? 

[ComedicSociopathy]

I tend to prefer SfDebris!Janeway who acted like a hilarious demented suicidal hypocritical lunatic whenever she held up Starfleet principles.
 

 

SfDebris!Janeway > Canon Janeway. 

 

 

what's with all the last name hate? 

 

Because Dick Ryder. 

[Undead Han]

You know the funny thing about that scene is that the torture is entirely ineffective and the terrorist only starts giving information after he's been fed and treated decently. 

 

Sure. 

 

I'm not really looking to get into a political debate about torture however, I just posted it as an example of what a renegade action should like. The terrorist is the villain, someone who would gleefully take part in the murder of civilians. The CIA agent on the other hand is trying to prevent terrorist attacks, using ruthless measures to try and save innocent lives...whether or not the means used is effective.

 

Renegade actions should be ruthless actions that serve the greater good, from the point of view of the character, and not about being evil for the sake of evil. 

[ComedicSociopathy]

Sure. 

 

I'm not really looking to get into a political debate about torture however, I just posted it as an example of what a renegade action should like. The terrorist is the villain, someone who would gleefully take part in the murder of civilians. The CIA agent on the other hand is trying to prevent terrorist attacks, using ruthless measures to try and save innocent lives...whether or not the means used is effective.

 

Renegade actions should be ruthless actions that serve the greater good, from the point of view of the character, and not about being evil for the sake of evil. 

 

Oh, sweet Jesus, yes. Let's avoid that. 

 

Anyways, you're right that Renegade should be focused on a pragmatic "for the greater good" attitude, instead of the weird mix of that and action hero puns that we got in the original trilogy. 

 

That said, some of the blatantly psychotic, action movie cheesiness of Renegade was fun and I sort of wish they'd be a third dialogue personality that focuses solely on that. 

[SNascimento]

Anyways, you're right that Renegade should be focused on a pragmatic "for the greater good" attitude, instead of the weird mix of that and action hero puns that we got in the original trilogy. 

As long as moments like "You're working too hard" and "You talk to much" and "Wrong move" are there... I missed those from ME3. 

I believe this "do something bad for the greater good" is what Renegade tried to be. There were moments when Renegade did feel more about being a jerk, but then, how much Zero Dark Thirty can you go when the renegade option is a answer to someone saying hello, or asking about your day or something like that? The big or more meaninful choices reflect the pragmatic attitude much better.

[ComedicSociopathy]

As long as moments like "You're working too hard" and "You talk to much" and "Wrong move" are there... I missed those from ME3. 

I believe this "do something bad for the greater good" is what Renegade tried to be. There were moments when Renegade did feel more about being a jerk, but then, how much Zero Dark Thirty can you go when the renegade option is a answer to someone saying hello, or asking about your day or something like that? The big or more meaninful choices reflect the pragmatic attitude much better.

 

Exactly. The Paragon-Renegade system really should have only been giving out morality points during crucial points in the story; Rachni Queen, Genophage, etc. Not when you're just having a conversation with your companions. 

[FlyingSquirrel]

What about a fusion of the Paragon/neutral/renegade system with the Da personality system? This way we would have a wide array of possibilities in wich we could roleplay our characters. 

 

I think this is the way to go - some aspects of the character's personality (such as being more expressive or more reserved, or whether or not they're comfortable joking around with other crew members) should be separate from any moral or factional alignment.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Sounds like a bland Bethesda character.

They're only bland if you design them that way.

My Bethesda characters have personalities and motives and goals, all crafted entirely by me. That's way better than having to play someone else's character.

[Hrulj]

World is in ruins, all civilization is dead and turned into husks or sludge, the only survivors are on the ship with him (as far as he knows) and we get a cheerful personality?

Nah, I would like a sarcastic and cynical person.

Also Comander? Why not Liutenant or Captain? Both are easier to pronounce than Comander Ryder

[Killroy]

The Mass Effect writers struggle with humor so I would prefer they not try to shoehorn a comedic and/or sarcastic personality onto the protagonist. The Citadel DLC supplied me with more Mass Effect "humor" than I ever wanted. 

[Arcian]

World is in ruins, all civilization is dead and turned into husks or sludge, the only survivors are on the ship with him (as far as he knows) and we get a cheerful personality?
Nah, I would like a sarcastic and cynical person.
Also Comander? Why not Liutenant or Captain? Both are easier to pronounce than Comander Ryder

Commander Ryder sounds vaguely like Commander Riker.

The Mass Effect writers struggle with humor so I would prefer they not try to shoehorn a comedic and/or sarcastic personality onto the protagonist. The Citadel DLC supplied me with more Mass Effect "humor" than I ever wanted. 

Yeah, well, we can't all be joyless curmudgeons.

[Killroy]

Yeah, well, we can't all be joyless curmudgeons.

 

You're certainly giving it the old college try.

[Arcian]

You're certainly giving it the old college try.

How can you say that? I'm wearing a santa hat and everything.

[Ahglock]

what's with all the last name hate?

Names that can become bad jokes when put together with a first name have issues. Also it is a first name, one you might find on a celebrities child. I dislike it immensely because it gets used as a first name and I don't like it as one. It's not as bad as some of the names I'd torture a child with but its not something I like.

[Medhia_Nox]

@Han Shot First:   My only disagreement with your assessment of Renegade is that it isn't "innocent lives" - it's "lives of people I'm interested in saving" - and it isn't the "greater good" - it's "the interests of the body politic I serve".  

 

Governments serve themselves first... their people second.

 

The FBI, CIA and NSA serve "the government" not - "the people".

[ZipZap2000]

Names that can become bad jokes when put together with a first name.....I dislike it immensely.... I'd torture a child....

Whoa dude.

[Arcian]

Governments serve themselves first... their people second.

 

The FBI, CIA and NSA serve "the government" not - "the people".

Spotted the libertarian.

 

The government IS the people. Or at least, it's meant to be. This is obviously not the case with the US today. But under Bernie Sanders, it could be again.

[KaiserShep]

World is in ruins, all civilization is dead and turned into husks or sludge, the only survivors are on the ship with him (as far as he knows) and we get a cheerful personality?

Nah, I would like a sarcastic and cynical person.

Also Comander? Why not Liutenant or Captain? Both are easier to pronounce than Comander Ryder

 

I would like the option though. I greatly appreciate characters that can see the lighter side of things, or at least treat it like the lighter side of things at times. All this heavy seriousness gets kind of tiresome. 

[agonis]

They're only bland if you design them that way.

My Bethesda characters have personalities and motives and goals, all crafted entirely by me. That's way better than having to play someone else's character.

I understand you, but that´s something I play P&P for. P&P offers more freedom in designing and roleplaying a character than a game.

If I play a game I enjoy the RPG elements (and no, I do not mean leveling a character in a specific way, I mean roleplaying a character, make different decisions,...) but I prefer my protagonist to have some character and background that is recognized by the game.

Bethasda isn´t exactly known for it´s interesting protagonists. In the end nearly everything is headcanon.