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[George-Kinsill]

Of my several play throughs so far I find one of the most interesting to role play is an inquisitor who comes to believe that they are the herald of Andraste and then realizes that their new found faith was built on a faulty foundation. I have two questions; does anyone else like to RP this and at what point do you become disillusioned?

 

I find the point after "Here lies the Abyss" to be the best point personally. Not only do you find out how much of an accident you truly are, but also that Andraste did not directly save you. Further, people like Mother Giselle ask you to lie to the world and claim that Andraste still saved you. At this point my inquisitor essentially gives up on the Chantry, seeing how even when it tries to reinvent itself, it is willing to found itself on a lie.

 

 

Let me know what you think, especially if you have other disillusionments with various other faiths (i.e the elven gods after Trespasser). This is meant to be an RP discussion and if you can, try to keep real world religions out of it.

[Lebanese Dude]

I find giving up the Chantry as a supposed zealot so suddenly after one event to be a little contrived.

 

I played one Inquisitor Trevelyan who lost his faith over time. There are enough dialogue options throughout the game to roleplay your evolving stance.

 

He became a little disillusioned by the events at Haven. In dialogue with Josephine and Giselle, he begins to question his faith. Later, the events of Here Lies The Abyss make him question his faith. He remains a servant of the Chantry, but he's no longer a zealot about it and is confused about what to make of things. By the end of the game, he's become a little resentful of the Chantry.

 

----

 

In truth, the events of DAI make playing a Dalish elf zealot the most interesting. Bonus points if you're a female in a relationship with Solas.

 

You start as a hardass regarding as one of the "true" Elvhen, only to find out throughout the game that everything you believed in was a lie.

 

By the end of Trespasser, unless you're a masochist, there's no way you wouldn't renounce your Dalish gods.

[DarkAmaranth1966]

My Lavellan went from beining convinced Mythal, her chosen favorite of the pantheon, saved her to questioning if it really was Andraste as she fell in love with Cullen, to realizing it was her, and her alone that got her the Anchor and, that is why she was able to escape the fade alive after HLTA. By the time she actually meets Mythal, that's the final piece that makes her decide there are no gods and that Adraste, like the elven gods are or were just people or spirits, or abominations like Flemeth/Mythal and, nothing more. The old Gods were similar except they were dragon abominations instead of human or elven.

 

She doesn't want to abandon everything but, she wants the truth told to all and, she knows it's going to tear both human and elven society apart to do it. Ultimately she decided that the here and now is most important so, marries Cullen and, disbands the Inquisition. She devotes herself to helping Cullen help ex Templars and, to telling whomever will listen, her beliefs and, hoping she can get some to at least question what they think they know about divine beings.

 

She rather likes the Avaar notion that spirits are gods, maybe they all are and, any non demon abomination could be a god in physical form, including her if such a spirit ever chooses her. (In which case Solas would face one irate little elf who had the power to stop him.)

[nightscrawl]

Here Lies the Abyss seems like the best point.

 

My Inquisitor has serious struggles with his faith and the events in the Fade are a large part of that, but he never loses it completely.

[Dai Grepher]

My male human mage took no stance from the beginning because he didn't know for certain, but he did believe in the Maker and Andraste. He romanced Cassandra and said he appreciated her belief that the Maker sent him to fulfill the duty of Inquisitor. After HLtA he told the world the truth of what happened, and still believed in the Maker and Andraste. In the final battle against Corypheus he said that he was the Maker's chosen. So it is possible to go on believing in the Maker after HLtA.

 

The people's "vision" of Andraste turning out to be a Fade Spirit is not proof that the Maker doesn't exist or did not intervene in some way. It just means Andraste didn't help you directly. It's illogical to lose your faith over something like that.

 

It's also fine if you play a zealot who continues to believe Andraste did it. Just dismiss the Fade spirit as one who saw Andraste save you and was trying to imitate her afterward. The whole point of being a zealot is that nothing dissuades you from your faith.

[SwobyJ]

My male human mage took no stance from the beginning because he didn't know for certain, but he did believe in the Maker and Andraste. He romanced Cassandra and said he appreciated her belief that the Maker sent him to fulfill the duty of Inquisitor. After HLtA he told the world the truth of what happened, and still believed in the Maker and Andraste. In the final battle against Corypheus he said that he was the Maker's chosen. So it is possible to go on believing in the Maker after HLtA.

 

The people's "vision" of Andraste turning out to be a Fade Spirit is not proof that the Maker doesn't exist or did not intervene in some way. It just means Andraste didn't help you directly. It's illogical to lose your faith over something like that.

 

It's also fine if you play a zealot who continues to believe Andraste did it. Just dismiss the Fade spirit as one who saw Andraste save you and was trying to imitate her afterward. The whole point of being a zealot is that nothing dissuades you from your faith.

 

A fanatic, rather than a zealot.

 

Zealots only necessarily have zeal. This zeal can be calmed down, shut down, etc. Its fanatics that (typically) can't be stopped. Definition - Excessive zeal.

[CronoDragoon]

What Pride is the best spot for an elf, I think. Not just the gods part, but that those who claim to speak for the gods are so unwilling to help the Dalish. At that point you kind of should be in "eff all you" mode.

[SwobyJ]

To OP - Here Lies the Abyss is indeed one of the best points. Even save it to be the 2nd choice as main quest so you can go into Winter Palace all puffed up about Andraste .

 

But the quest does NOT disprove the idea of being the Herald. If we take it for its word, then it can still be taken as indirect assistance. And alternatively, we can take it all as Fade trickery. The Inquisitor seems to be quite the listener of 'Justinia', but we can make that temporary and the Inquisitor can shake it off as a bad dream. This Spirit of Faith or whatever is not actually proof one way or the other. Fade story is Bioware's deniability - its so warped and weird! The Maker and Andraste are said by the Chant to be BEYOND the FADE. Thus the Fade exists as a layer of potential misunderstandings. For all we know, Andraste did workings beyond even any Fade understandings, in order to manipulate you to be right in your 'lucky' positions for events. As such, we are the Herald of Andraste's intervention in the world (a loophole in Chant theology since the Maker is the one who isn't to intervene yet).

 

But yes, this quest is the biggest in terms of disillusionment, and its probably where an Inquisitor of this sort would start losing faith, and taking that into Winter Palace (maybe), Arbor Wilds, Ending, and the 3 DLC.

[Patchwork]

I think for a Dalish (mine anyway) meeting Flemythal, in a world state where Keiran exists and Ink drank from the Well, kicks the last bit of belief out of her. 

 

Come the final confrontation with Cory she can empathise with his rage and feeling abandoned.  

[Tidus]

My Dalish Elf inquisitor  believes more in the Maker then the old Elven Gods after all what type of Gods would abandon their people and allow them to suffer since the fall of the Dales?  What type of Gods would allow her peaceful clan to be attacked and nearly wiped out?  Yes,the attack is mention in the game.

 

Of course Kamine is  outspoken against old Elven beliefs and customs as well as being a unwanted surplus mage.

[Gervaise]

My Dalish was never a true zealot; just following what he had been taught all his life.   Since part of that teaching was that the gods could no longer interact with the world having been shut away by Fen'Harel, much of what occurred simply confirmed how much his people had managed to get right about their history.   He was a bit disillusioned to discover the Mythal had been around all this time and not doing much in the way of helping but it was reassuring to know from Solas that she had been a protector of her people, as he had been taught (which is why he has her vallaslin) and in fact her test of Morrigan, seemed to tie in with the way the Temple said she decided whether or not to respond to petitions for her help.    Even the history of the evanuris from Solas seemed to indicate that at one time that had been simply revered leaders and that was clearly what the Dalish remembered.    Considering they may well have been the descendants of those who followed the evanuris rather than the Dread Wolf it is likely that they didn't see themselves as slaves but faithful servants.    The library certainly had memories of those who were angry rather than grateful to the Dread Wolf for his actions and he certainly only have the word of the Solas for all that he asserted about the evanuris.     He equally had their warning against the fair words of Fen'Harel.     He also had his experience with the Avaar to show how a races idea of what constitutes a god, doesn't necessarily mean something totally separate from the people they deal with.   So it seems likely that the evanuris were both spirit and mortal combined.     Thus, not much has changed regarding the religion he has followed all his life.    The gods cannot help him and his vallaslin are still marks of honour that distinguish him according to the path he has chosen in life.  Fen'Harel is still the enemy.    He is open minded about the Maker.   

 

What he has even less faith in is the Chantry.    He was constantly encouraged to lie about what really happened to him both at the Conclave and in the Fade.    It is clear that even liberal clerics like Giselle are willing to spin the facts to fit whatever will be acceptable to the listener.    Having studied the Chant of Light and compared it with the historical record, it is clear that very little they preach is actually borne out by what really happened.   Plus the rulers of Thedas only pay lip service to the moral teaching of the Chant and the only bit they appear prepared to enforce is the strictures on the use of magic because it is in the interests of the non-mage rulers to do so.    He also now knows the truth about Ameridan and the fact that in his day it was possible to honour both the elven gods and the Maker with a good conscience but that Drakon wanted to make things simple and subsequently his descendants shared that view.    Thus what could have been an opportunity for a convert to the faith of the Chantry has actually done the reverse and confirmed him in his belief that the Chantry is a made up religion that has little to do with what the real Andraste taught or what she aimed to achieve.   It certainly has nothing to do with what Shartan supported.    Thus he is prepared to believe in the Maker and the moral teaching associated with him but not the Chantry and that his people were right to resist attempts to convert them and even to attack the heretical country (Orlais) that was pushing these ideas. 

[AnimalBoy]

My character never gave up his faith no matter what happened.

[Medhia_Nox]

DA:I I actually a pretty good study on "Faith" and it's effects on people. 

 

I believe there are two very strong categories of people... at least in the modern world.  Those who think literally and those who think abstractly.  

 

The literal minded person says:  "My faith is based on events.  Those events were proven false.  Therefore my faith is broken."  Which is, actually, not faith at all, but is the only type of faith a literally minded person can comprehend.  

 

Abstract thinkers are not bound by fact based experiential existence. Faith holds more meaning to them than a series of events, people or beings.  They are confounding to literal minded thinkers specifically because of the elasticity of their minds.  True faith can only come from abstract thinking.  

 

A zealot is perhaps the worst form of thinking - and I don't think actual zealots lose faith (or, in the cast of literal minded zealots, alter their fact structure) very often, and when they do, they tend to chose death over change.  This need not apply to religion alone.  There can be secular zealots as well.. for governments, sports teams, singular individuals, etc. etc.  

 

Les Miserables provides a beautiful example of a true secular zealot in Javert... who believes completely in "law", but when that law shows even the slightest crack he chooses death over change. 

 

What I think your character truly is OP... is a person of 'literal' belief.  So long as Chanters chant... and Divines sit the sunburst throne... and the institution remains viable... and you get your signs and portents in the form you've decided are correct and appropriate... your character's "faith" remains.  What your character is losing... is simply "the fact" and then his "belief".  It would be no different than losing "faith" in the justice system, spouse, government, friend, etc. etc. when they wrong you.

 

I'd hardly say he/she was truly a zealot of any real sort - just a character you predestined to never really have faith to begin with.  

[Beerfish]

I am the chosen of Andraste.  It was divine intervention that I should be there at that point in time and pick up the orb.  Giselle did not lie to me.

 

Those of poor faith would abandon their views over this revelation.  The maker works in mysterious ways.  Now gt out of my way, I have a land to rule for I am the chosen.

[Dancing_Dolphin]

I am the chosen of Andraste. It was divine intervention that I should be there at that point in time and pick up the orb. Giselle did not lie to me.

Those of poor faith would abandon their views over this revelation. The maker works in mysterious ways. Now gt out of my way, I have a land to rule for I am the chosen.

This is exactly how my human noble feels. My Dalish...not so much. Lavellan lost her faith in her religion but still has faith in her friends and the people she loves.

[Dai Grepher]

A fanatic, rather than a zealot.

 

Zealots only necessarily have zeal. This zeal can be calmed down, shut down, etc. Its fanatics that (typically) can't be stopped. Definition - Excessive zeal.

 

Zealot:

 

1. a person who shows zeal.

 

2. an excessively zealous person; fanatic.
 

[Dai Grepher]

For an Andrastian, I think Solas' claims are more of a challenge to the faith than anything else. The Chant states that the Maker created the Veil. Solas claims he created it. One of these is a lie.

 

What Pride is the best spot for an elf, I think. Not just the gods part, but that those who claim to speak for the gods are so unwilling to help the Dalish. At that point you kind of should be in "eff all you" mode.

 

Even this could be negated by a Dalish who would swear to any evanuris but Mythal. So the gods warred with each other. Mythal lost. Fen'Harel tricked them, but they still exist. It's only a question of how to release the god that Dalish wishes to serve.
 

[Beerfish]

This is exactly how my human noble feels. My Dalish...not so much. Lavellan lost her faith in religion but still has faith in her friends and the people she loves.

My female dalish archer in my 2nd play through treated the whole thing with utter disdain and acted like it was a fluke from the beginning.  I was actually very happy to see that being a real possibility on how they presented it.  Well done by BioWare.

[SwobyJ]

Zealot:
 
1. a person who shows zeal.
 
2. an excessively zealous person; fanatic.

fa·nat·ic
fəˈnadik/
noun
1.
a person filled with excessive and single-minded zeal, especially for an extreme religious or political cause.
synonyms: zealot, extremist, militant, dogmatist, devotee, adherent; More
adjective
1.
filled with or expressing excessive zeal.
"his fanatic energy"

Same but used differently. I know I was being picky but it wasn't against you - only expressing that one can play a zealot that does give it up, as the zeal can 'run out'.

[myahele]

I think when Corypheus tells you about the Orb and his plans is probably the best start of losing one's faith, in my opinion.

 

Of course, prior to that, one can lose faith in the Chantry due to their politicking, but for me the Orb's revelation was a good start in truly questioning the existence of the Maker, etc

[nightscrawl]

The Inquisitor seems to be quite the listener of 'Justinia', but we can make that temporary and the Inquisitor can shake it off as a bad dream. This Spirit of Faith or whatever is not actually proof one way or the other.

My Inquisitor was dissatisfied with the answers given by not-Justinia, as well as those by Giselle in the conversation you can have after Abyss. He struggles with his faith and never loses it completely, but no one has any answers for him, which is part of his problem.

This is one of my favorite elements of DAI.

[straykat]

If you're a zealot, you should be losing faith within an hour of the game. Zealots don't believe the Maker is an interventionist, except under specific conditions (that haven't been met). They also don't just hand over massive amounts of political and religious power to random bums found in a ditch. And they especially don't like it when it doesn't matter what that bum thinks themselves, what they believe, or where they're from.

 

People think the Dalish got the bum rap in this game, but the Chantry probably got it worse. I don't know. What's worse? The death of your beliefs? Or the rape and perversion of your beliefs? Tough question.

[Bizantura]

My Elvhen never cared about religion/belief.

 

She became more and more intriqued by Solas.

 

By end Trespasser she is on the same page as Solas.

 

Hope the next game lets her.

[straykat]

My Elvhen never cared about religion/belief.

 

She became more and more intriqued by Solas.

 

By end Trespasser she is on the same page as Solas.

 

Hope the next game lets her.

 

Hope the next game does what? Destroy the setting?

 

Maybe exciting in the moment.. but not very profitable.. or fun in years to come. They already realized that with Mass Effect.

[Bizantura]

Hope the next game does what? Destroy the setting?

 

Maybe exciting in the moment.. but not very profitable.. or fun in years to come. They already realized that with Mass Effect.

Destroy, no.  Different setting, yes.