12 réponses à ce sujet

[Buttafook0]

I was going to try out SCS for the first time but after I downloaded it I noticed it had a million different options. I'd rather not play with mages that are permabuffed with stoneskin, mirror image, spell immunity, etc. Does anyone here use the SCS mod? Do mages in BG use the sleep spell against your party? I've always thought that the player's party would have zero chance if they did use spells like sleep and death spell earlier than they do unmodded.

[corey_russell]

It's not necessary to install all the options - some people install just the smarter AI, and nothing else which works for them. In BG 1, yes they do use sleep spells. One strategy is just avoid any mage until sleep not a threat. And if you must battle the mage early, SPREAD OUT! This limits sleep's effectiveness.

[Grimwald the Wise]

There are also tactics that you can use that enable you to defeat them.

 

Tarnesh at the beginning of the game is deadly.

 

There are a few options that enable you to defeat him.

 

One is to disable his ability to attack you. If you are a cleric, you cast sanctuary. If you are a thief, you pop inside the temple, hide and then come out again.

 

The guards will then attack Tarnesh and kill him for you. You lose 120 experience, but so what?

 

If you are a fighter you have to avoid conversation with him. Let him follow you round the temple and walk into the inn before he has a chance to talk. Join up with Khaled and Jaheira. You now have a level playing field as Jaheira has her spells. You then have two choices. Fight him or not fight him. If you don't want to fight him you mustn't sleep or he will be waiting outside for you. If you want to fight him then Jaheira has to have disabling spells memorised, and you have to come out ready to fight.

 

Of course you can also be totally evil and shoot him with your bow before he even speaks to you.

[Buttafook0]

There are also tactics that you can use that enable you to defeat them.

 

Tarnesh at the beginning of the game is deadly.

 

There are a few options that enable you to defeat him.

 

One is to disable his ability to attack you. If you are a cleric, you cast sanctuary. If you are a thief, you pop inside the temple, hide and then come out again.

 

The guards will then attack Tarnesh and kill him for you. You lose 120 experience, but so what?

 

If you are a fighter you have to avoid conversation with him. Let him follow you round the temple and walk into the inn before he has a chance to talk. Join up with Khaled and Jaheira. You now have a level playing field as Jaheira has her spells. You then have two choices. Fight him or not fight him. If you don't want to fight him you mustn't sleep or he will be waiting outside for you. If you want to fight him then Jaheira has to have disabling spells memorised, and you have to come out ready to fight.

 

Of course you can also be totally evil and shoot him with your bow before he even speaks to you.

That sounds a little ridiculous to me. There's "metagaming", then there's doing things like that. I could just kill him using console commands too and it wouldn't really be any different. Still, I'll give it a try, although I really prefer to play without reloading and it seems SCS is going to make quite a bit harder.

[Buttafook0]

It's not necessary to install all the options - some people install just the smarter AI, and nothing else which works for them. In BG 1, yes they do use sleep spells. One strategy is just avoid any mage until sleep not a threat. And if you must battle the mage early, SPREAD OUT! This limits sleep's effectiveness.

I'm guessing the mod maker made it so enemy mages immediately cast sleep, like they do later on with chaos/confusion. Sounds like fun. Thanks for the replies, guess I'll give it a try.

[gottaloveme]

What did you guys find was the best build. Fighter, Paladin, Mage? And do you have to keep spamming attack or click it only once. I swear this game is harder than DA or ME. The furthest I've gotten is trying to rescue Dynaheir but ended up only the pc and Minsc to take out the dudes on the bridge. Death all round there.

[Grond0]

The best build depends on your play style - any character can be successful.  However, if you're struggling to get into the game then a fighter type is probably best - the berserker kit is particularly good as its rage ability can prevent the PC from being affected by most spells.  You only need to click attack once so long as the enemy stays within sight range.  You may be being confused as the animation of the figures shows swings with weapons taking place when there is no actual attack.  If you turn on the text information for to hit rolls (in options / gameplay / feedback) you'll see all the actual attacks being made.

[Grimwald the Wise]

That sounds a little ridiculous to me. There's "metagaming", then there's doing things like that. I could just kill him using console commands too and it wouldn't really be any different. Still, I'll give it a try, although I really prefer to play without reloading and it seems SCS is going to make quite a bit harder.

 

I don't actually do things like that, other than the cleric using sanctuary. In my opinion, that is a legitimate tactic that a cleric might use.

 

Similarly, I think that a solo mage casting invisibility, or a cleric using sanctuary when attacked by Nimbul and letting the guards do the killing is a legitimate tactic.

 

It is what anyone with the ability to go invisible would do if they had any sense.

[Grimwald the Wise]

@gottaloveme.

 

Having a mixed team of three or four is easiest. You can then use the differing attributes of your party. Against those dudes that you had problems with, Jaheira can cast entangle and you then use ranged weapons. A cleric could cast command, a mage sleep. Grond0 is right that a berserker is a good class.

 

I would actually wait until after the Nashkel mines before you get Minsc and Dynaheir.

 

If you do that, Dynaheir will already know some pretty powerful spells such as fireball.

 

However, the game is designed to be difficult which is why we are still playing it decades later.

 

With a lot of games you get to the point that you can guarantee winning virtually every time. Not so with BG. It is therefore an achievement EVERY time that you win.

[Buttafook0]

I don't actually do things like that, other than the cleric using sanctuary. In my opinion, that is a legitimate tactic that a cleric might use.

 

Similarly, I think that a solo mage casting invisibility, or a cleric using sanctuary when attacked by Nimbul and letting the guards do the killing is a legitimate tactic.

 

It is what anyone with the ability to go invisible would do if they had any sense.

I'm not sure I understand, how is using invisibility a legitimate tactic? You aren't supposed to know that the guy is going to completely (and cheaply) dominate you. You're aren't even supposed to know that either one of these guys is an enemy until they talk to you.

 

Honestly, I like this mod but I don't think I'll use it again. Stoneskin and minor spell trigger aren't even supposed to be in BG1 but every mage has it, and every fight with mages they're all the same thing. The only reason my party (kensai, kivan, imoen, yeslick, ajantis, xan) was able to beat Nimbul, was because of the army of Nashkel guards popping his stoneskin.  It kind of feels like like the mod maker has played too much world of warcraft and every fight with a mage is like a "raid boss" and has to be some ridiculous prolonged "epic" battle or something.

[Grimwald the Wise]

I'm not sure I understand, how is using invisibility a legitimate tactic? You aren't supposed to know that the guy is going to completely (and cheaply) dominate you. You're aren't even supposed to know that either one of these guys is an enemy until they talk to you.

 

Certainly in my setup, you have time to cast sanctuary or invisibility AFTER he goes hostile as the first spell he casts is mirror image and he only casts the fear incucing spell later (horror I think).

[Enuhal]

As has been said before, since SCS is highly customizable, you can simply prevent mages from knowing BG2-spells in BG1 or prevent pre-buffing in general (both very reasonable options to disable, I think). I wouldn't just decide to never use the mod again after frustrating experiences with one specific setup - It's a question of finding out what suits you (which is why, coming back to your original question, there isn't really a standard SCS setup).

 

As to metagaming, there are reasons to consider several possibly successful strategies legitimate if you want to - you have to consider that your PC is on the run, and he knows there are people out there trying to kill him - so not only might he be especially careful (sending a ranger or thief ahead to scout, having other party members talk to people for him while staying back, having potions or buffs ready in case anything unexpected should happen), he might also consider running away at first if he encounters any hostile mages (and using spells like invisibilty, sanctuary, haste etc. to run away seems perfectly legitimate to me - that's part of what they're there for). He doesn't know what they can do. For all he knows, they could be high level spellcasters, capable of killing him instantly - so he runs, hides, tries to prepare as well as possible before trying to fight (or simply avoids encountering them a second time).

 

Anyway, that's how I think about things - if you don't want to use the mod, you don't have to - that's the great thing about modding

 

Enuhal

[Grimwald the Wise]

@Enuhal.

 

I couldn't have put it better myself.

 

I think Buttafook0 must be used to playing games where the character is the most powerful one around.

 

In Baldur's Gate, you're not, though by wise use of tactics you can kill or simply avoid enemies that are far more powerful than your own. The game actually suggests running away as an option!

 

For instance running away from Greywolf when you are at level 1, and letting the mine guards kill him might not be heroic, but it is an option that is perfectly reasonable.