Aller au contenu

Photo

An alliance with the Architect / Darkspawn? (+old companions)


  • Veuillez vous connecter pour répondre
44 réponses à ce sujet

#1
Snowy-Ninja

Snowy-Ninja
  • Members
  • 156 messages

During my first play through of DA:A i kept the Architect alive, I thought it was a good idea since he just wanted to free the darkspawn and end the pointless searching for the next archdemon and starting a new blight. I still need to read the book but people tell me there is more to the Architects plans then just "saving darkspawn and endings blights" so forgive me but I think he'd make a great ally.

 

At first I believed he could be used as another antagonist but with the end of DAI, I don't think Bioware would want to repeat "ancient darkspawn threatens peace in Thedas" again. You see Solas is a great threat to everyone from dwarves to darkspawn to the people of Thedas and "Those across the sea" his plan will destroy everything as it did in the past so honestly I could see the next hero having to form alliances that are not conventional.

The inquisitor states at the end of the game they need to find people that Solas doesn't know, we need to build an army (alliance) that Solas will not be able to predict and what is more unpredictable then the blight? An alliance with the Architect:

  • we could better understand the taint/blights, perhaps Hero 4 finds a cure to the taint. Perhaps with the architect they can work towards endings blights forever (we still have to worry about the last archdemons and killing them seems to be a bad idea)
  • We could better understand Red Lyrium and how to safely dispose of it.
  • We could finally get to know, how the blights began and why they began and what created them.

That said I don't think the architect should be a companion, rather one of his Disciples would act on his interests and become your companion (and before someone makes the joke no not as a romance option!) It would be interesting to hear the banter between your companions and this darkspawn. Maybe in the the architect betrays you and your darkspawn companion has to make a choice similar to Iron Bull and choose to go back to the architect or stay by your side.

Which brings me to old Companions, (if the darkspawn companion is an option) i'd like to see a warden companion from awakenings or one of the HOF's companions return. Personally for me I'd like to see Shale return either as a golem or as a female dwarf as it means more interesting talk about titans and golems and dwarves. It would also be interesting to see her reaction to adventuring with a darkspawn.

But most likely it would be someone who can't be killed off leaving Velanna or Sigrun, having both of them return would make sense. Velanna because the architect has her sister and Sigrun because... dwarves (okay I don't have a good reason to include her but why not) but really if they choose to bring old companions back these two do make the most sense.

In short, Solas would never expect an alliance with the darkspawn and if the Inquisitor set's up this alliance it'd be even more surprising. I mean really it'd make sense, he has spies everywhere apart from within the ranks of the darkspawn as I doubt he'd risk his own people getting the taint (unless he somehow knows how to cure / vaccinate against it, which if he does I will shake my head at Bioware for).


  • Elista, Elyunha, ModernAcademic et 1 autre aiment ceci

#2
Dai Grepher

Dai Grepher
  • Members
  • 4 759 messages

Sigrun and Velanna can both die in Awakening.

 

I have had the idea for a Disciple Emissary to be a companion character in DA4. He would be travelling with Seranni and the Architect if he's still alive. He could also offer the specialization of Blight Magic, since darkspawn magic is different from normal magic. I imagine him as similar to a Buddhist monk in style and thought process, seeking enlightenment, except wearing light armor and bindings that hide his appearance at first. I also had the idea that this darkspawn should carry something extra, a Fade spirit, one of Loyalty maybe, in the form of a mabari. The spirit would act mainly as a gameplay mechanic, interacting with other spirits or certain magical objects. But it could also serve as a spirit guide during Fade or Crossroads related quests.

 

Such a character would pose an interesting counter for Solas, especially if this darkspawn knows bloodmagic as well.

 

I have also thought of Sigrid Gulsdotten and the spirit she has possessing her. It would work the same way as above, but her magic would be more conventional. She might offer insight into what Solas is. The problem here is that she may have been persuaded to give up the spirit. So this might not work. And if the Inquisitor encouraged her to give up the spirit and she ended up not doing so, that Inquisitor might have a problem accepting her into the group.



#3
MisterJB

MisterJB
  • Members
  • 15 587 messages

Even if you did not read the book, you should understand why granting intelligence to a virulent, immortal race that does not require air or food, reproduces through the rape of females of other races, is born by the dozens in every "pregnancy" and has enough numbers to virtually cover the entire underground of Thedas is a bad, bad, BAD idea.


  • Cute Nug et Dancing_Dolphin aiment ceci

#4
GoldenGail3

GoldenGail3
  • Banned
  • 3 801 messages
No.

#5
DarkAmaranth1966

DarkAmaranth1966
  • Members
  • 3 263 messages

No, we had the chance to play as Darkspawn once, that was enough. It makes no sense to me for anyone that wants to save Thedas to ally with the BLIGHT. No Darkspawn allying with Solas to destroy the world, remove the veil, maybe even get to more old gods, That I can see but, the hero allying with the Blight?!?!?!????



#6
ModernAcademic

ModernAcademic
  • Members
  • 2 256 messages

The Darkspawn are savage beasts who kill and rape because they obey THE CALLING.

 

Once the Calling is removed, they can be taught to abandon their beastial nature and act like normal beings (Seranni's words, Awakening DLC).

 

Take for instance the Disciple that fights by the Warden's side to save Amaranthine. The Epilogue goes on to show he continued to help many more humans whom he met years later. 

 

Darkspawn are not inherently dark creatures. They are taught to be violent by other darkspawn who obey the Calling. So it's something they learn from their "culture". Darkness is not born with them. The taint makes them look sick and gruesome, but that's all. It doesn't twist their minds. It's the Calling that does that, the will of the Archdemon. 

 

And those who are freed can be taught there is another way. That they can coexist with other beings. And some of them choose to follow that path, like the Disciple, much to our surprise.

 

They are beings who can learn to interact peacefully with other races and, given the chance, to form an underground society of their own, safely away from humans and other healthy lifeforms. 

 

What does mankind gain from that? Less darkspawn hordes assaulting Thedas during a Blight. Maybe even darkspawn fighting alongside Wardens to help.

 

THAT is what the Architect is trying to do. Whatever he tried in the books, he has long forsaken. His only goal now is to awaken the darkspawn and to serve as a leader for those who are lost. Given the opportunity, his plan WILL work, as the Epilogue shows if his life is spared:

 

The Deep Roads have neve been quieter.



#7
TheKomandorShepard

TheKomandorShepard
  • Members
  • 8 493 messages

Yes , The Withered slaugthered entire keep including civilians , The Seeker slaughered dalish elves then framed humans leading to Velanna rampage and Architect tried to kill most members of another races in odrer to achieve his goals and those were "nicer" disciples so yeah i guess awakened darkspawn truly are peaceful and noble creatures:lol:  . 


  • Cute Nug aime ceci

#8
GoldenGail3

GoldenGail3
  • Banned
  • 3 801 messages

The Darkspawn are savage beasts who kill and rape because they obey THE CALLING.
 
Once the Calling is removed, they can be taught to abandon their beastial nature and act like normal beings (Seranni's words, Awakening DLC).
 
Take for instance the Disciple that fights by the Warden's side to save Amaranthine. The Epilogue goes on to show he continued to help many more humans whom he met years later. 
 
Darkspawn are not inherently dark creatures. They are taught to be violent by other darkspawn who obey the Calling. So it's something they learn from their "culture". Darkness is not born with them. The taint makes them look sick and gruesome, but that's all. It doesn't twist their minds. It's the Calling that does that, the will of the Archdemon. 
 
And those who are freed can be taught there is another way. That they can coexist with other beings. And some of them choose to follow that path, like the Disciple, much to our surprise.
 
They are beings who can learn to interact peacefully with other races and, given the chance, to form an underground society of their own, safely away from humans and other healthy lifeforms. 
 
What does mankind gain from that? Less darkspawn hordes assaulting Thedas during a Blight. Maybe even darkspawn fighting alongside Wardens to help.
 
THAT is what the Architect is trying to do. Whatever he tried in the books, he has long forsaken. His only goal now is to awaken the darkspawn and to serve as a leader for those who are lost. Given the opportunity, his plan WILL work, as the Epilogue shows if his life is spared:
 

The Deep Roads have neve been quieter.


I mostly agree with your posts - but I say no to this one. The Archietic should be killed on sight.
  • Cute Nug aime ceci

#9
Dai Grepher

Dai Grepher
  • Members
  • 4 759 messages

It isn't the Calling that twists their minds. Many of them are twisted even after being awakened. It is in their nature to be violent and destructive, but some have the willpower to rise above it. I think that is the kind of darkspawn that should be a companion character in the next game. This darkspawn could even have a philosophy that all darkspawn must be destroyed, and all tainted creatures cured or killed.


  • ModernAcademic aime ceci

#10
Serza

Serza
  • Members
  • 13 141 messages

Oh, yes. Architect is of wantings to endings Blights.

 

By turning everyone into a monster.



#11
Dean_the_Young

Dean_the_Young
  • Members
  • 20 684 messages

Even if you did not read the book, you should understand why granting intelligence to a virulent, immortal race that does not require air or food, reproduces through the rape of females of other races, is born by the dozens in every "pregnancy" and has enough numbers to virtually cover the entire underground of Thedas is a bad, bad, BAD idea.

 

If the decision were granting intelligence, I'd agree. But it's not- Darkspawn have awakened, and killing the Architect won't put that back in the bottle.

 

The decision to ally with the Architect is about channeling the intelligence that already exists. And possibly about justice, for his crimes and blunders and that whole big Blight. But as far as future concerns go, the Architect choice isn't a chance to stop the Awakened Darkspawn.


  • ModernAcademic et Donquijote and 59 others aiment ceci

#12
MisterJB

MisterJB
  • Members
  • 15 587 messages

The Darkspawn are savage beasts who kill and rape because they obey THE CALLING.

 

Once the Calling is removed, they can be taught to abandon their beastial nature and act like normal beings (Seranni's words, Awakening DLC).

 

Take for instance the Disciple that fights by the Warden's side to save Amaranthine. The Epilogue goes on to show he continued to help many more humans whom he met years later. 

 

Darkspawn are not inherently dark creatures. They are taught to be violent by other darkspawn who obey the Calling. So it's something they learn from their "culture". Darkness is not born with them. The taint makes them look sick and gruesome, but that's all. It doesn't twist their minds. It's the Calling that does that, the will of the Archdemon. 

 

And those who are freed can be taught there is another way. That they can coexist with other beings. And some of them choose to follow that path, like the Disciple, much to our surprise.

 

They are beings who can learn to interact peacefully with other races and, given the chance, to form an underground society of their own, safely away from humans and other healthy lifeforms.

 

Let's assume Darkspawn are sucessfully "awakened" and even taught to be exactly like humans in mind if not in body.

What do we have then? An entirely new race competing for living space, resources, etc.

And this new race is immortal meaning their numbers never naturally diminish; have a birthrate in the dozens, meaning they will just outnumber everyone else; does not require food, meaning that the adage " an army marches on its stomach" does not even apply to them, they don't have supply lines, sucessfully besieging them is impossible.

 

What does that lead to? Overpopulation, demographic crisis. All that has to happen is for the Darkspawn to decide they would much rather be living aboveground and everyone is screwed.

 

And that is without taking into account that, intelligent or not, all Darkspawn spread an incurable plague.
 


  • ModernAcademic aime ceci

#13
MisterJB

MisterJB
  • Members
  • 15 587 messages

If the decision were granting intelligence, I'd agree. But it's not- Darkspawn have awakened, and killing the Architect won't put that back in the bottle.

 

The decision to ally with the Architect is about channeling the intelligence that already exists. And possibly about justice, for his crimes and blunders and that whole big Blight. But as far as future concerns go, the Architect choice isn't a chance to stop the Awakened Darkspawn.

 

It's possible that the Architect, being a thousand years old unique amalgamation of human and darkspawn, is the only one with the actual intelligence and power necessary to produce this "awakening ritual" and, if removed, no more will be granted intelligence.

 

And even if that is not true, the Architect is one of the few capable of leading large numbers of Darkspawn. Removing him could loosen the hold the other Awakened have over their brethren making conversions much more difficult. They may even descend into infighting.
 


  • ModernAcademic aime ceci

#14
Dean_the_Young

Dean_the_Young
  • Members
  • 20 684 messages

It's possible that the Architect, being a thousand years old unique amalgamation of human and darkspawn, is the only one with the actual intelligence and power necessary to produce this "awakening ritual" and, if removed, no more will be granted intelligence.

 

 As I recall, the mother faction was conducting her own awakenings. If she can, the others can as well.
 

 

And even if that is not true, the Architect is one of the few capable of leading large numbers of Darkspawn. Removing him could loosen the hold the other Awakened have over their brethren making conversions much more difficult. They may even descend into infighting.

 

 

Or they may unite in open hostility towards the surface, rather than ambivalence.

 

The Architect is not interested in the surface, or in population growth as opposed to Dark Spawn conversion. Maybe he will in the future- maybe he won't. But you are rejecting a chance at cooperation- which, even if only for a time, can build a knowledge base, prepatory gains, and encourage future opportunities for assissination if that is the desire- for less information, less influence, and less awareness of whatever dynamics occur amongst the Awakened.

 

If you feel conflict with the Awakened is inevitable, killing the Architect won't prevent it. It may not even delay it. It will simply blind you to when it will come, and leave you less prepared and aware when it does.


  • ComedicSociopathy, ModernAcademic et Donquijote and 59 others aiment ceci

#15
Donquijote and 59 others

Donquijote and 59 others
  • Members
  • 1 043 messages

The Seeker slaughered dalish elves then framed humans leading to Velanna rampage  . 

The Seeker was a genius,plain and simple...

To Kill or not to kill The Architect and some of his disciples is ultimatly irrelevant as the awakening will not be stopped since he probably passed the knowledge of that ritual to others disciples.

So long as the Grey wardens will not be all eliminated the disciples will continued to be created ,afterall we know that no GW blood means no disciples.

So during a blight we only need few GW in order to kill an archdemon they are not so necessary to justify the precence of thousands of  them in the world.



#16
In Exile

In Exile
  • Members
  • 28 738 messages

As I recall, the mother faction was conducting her own awakenings. If she can, the others can as well.


Or they may unite in open hostility towards the surface, rather than ambivalence.

The Architect is not interested in the surface, or in population growth as opposed to Dark Spawn conversion. Maybe he will in the future- maybe he won't. But you are rejecting a chance at cooperation- which, even if only for a time, can build a knowledge base, prepatory gains, and encourage future opportunities for assissination if that is the desire- for less information, less influence, and less awareness of whatever dynamics occur amongst the Awakened.

If you feel conflict with the Awakened is inevitable, killing the Architect won't prevent it. It may not even delay it. It will simply blind you to when it will come, and leave you less prepared and aware when it does.

There's no cooperation here, because there's no possibility of co-existence. The darkspawn require non-darkspawn as rape fodder to reproduce. They poison the land and people they exist near. Their mere physicality is anathema to all other races.

There's no cooperation to be had. It's just a choice about what type of war you're going to have and when you're going to have it. The Architect is clearly a creature far beyond the other awakened in power and stature. It also clearly can't control the other awakened and didn't seem to care to control them beyond swatting away those that frustrated its plans.

The Architect says it doesn't care about the surface. Yet this is obviously false - it needs to send out its rape abominations out to bolster their numbers (unless it wants its faction to be extinct from sheer attrition) and it needs an ongoing source of grey warden blood to create more awakened.
  • AntiChri5, Dai Grepher et ComedicSociopathy aiment ceci

#17
Tidus

Tidus
  • Members
  • 1 308 messages

I think its a bad idea to Ally with a talking Darkspawn. I doubt if the Greys would be happy about such a alliance either.



#18
Dai Grepher

Dai Grepher
  • Members
  • 4 759 messages

 As I recall, the mother faction was conducting her own awakenings. If she can, the others can as well.
 

 

Or they may unite in open hostility towards the surface, rather than ambivalence.

 

The Architect is not interested in the surface, or in population growth as opposed to Dark Spawn conversion. Maybe he will in the future- maybe he won't. But you are rejecting a chance at cooperation- which, even if only for a time, can build a knowledge base, prepatory gains, and encourage future opportunities for assissination if that is the desire- for less information, less influence, and less awareness of whatever dynamics occur amongst the Awakened.

 

If you feel conflict with the Awakened is inevitable, killing the Architect won't prevent it. It may not even delay it. It will simply blind you to when it will come, and leave you less prepared and aware when it does.

 

I think the Mother merely pulled disciples away from the Architect who did not want to follow him anymore.

 

It isn't cooperation though. It's letting the Architect leave to do Maker-knows-what. Even my evil bloodmage Hero didn't spare him, because there was no opportunity to learn any of the Architect's magic or research findings. If my Hero can't control the Architect with close oversight, then there's no point in letting him go. Either way, you don't gain anything from him. So better to eliminate the possible threat than let it wander the shadows. The only pro to letting him go is the slight chance that the darkspawn will calm down and stop attacking people, which my evil bloodmage doesn't care about anyway.

 

It will certainly delay it. If they have no clear leader, and if his secrets died with him, then it will definately be delayed. If conflict is inevitable, then having an alliance with the Architect will do no good. It isn't like he's going to notify you that he's going to attack.
 

Better to kill him and try to steal his notes from the mines. Hand it off to Avernus to look at.



#19
Zikade

Zikade
  • Members
  • 211 messages

IDGAF whether allying with the Architect is a bad or good idea. I find him way too fascinating so yes please, bring him back and my character will happily ally with him again and all of Thedas can curse/thank them later.  :P Maybe share some tea and have a delightful discussion about what's the word around Deep Roads and surfacers. Then probe him with questions about the Golden city and see if he remembers anything.

(Cuz I headcanon that polite talking Darkspawn who gave a dude called Amuk food and water, then chatted with him about surfacers was the Architect.)



#20
Dean_the_Young

Dean_the_Young
  • Members
  • 20 684 messages

There's no cooperation here, because there's no possibility of co-existence. The darkspawn require non-darkspawn as rape fodder to reproduce. They poison the land and people they exist near. Their mere physicality is anathema to all other races.
 

 

Integration =/= co-existence. I'd agree on the former, not the later- after all, separate but surviving has been occuring for nearly a millenium between the surface and the deep roads.

 

Moreover, there's a particular question of whether the the (Awakened) Darkspawn want to reproduce. Certainly we haven't seen any indication that they've been farming broodmothers.

 

 

 


There's no cooperation to be had. It's just a choice about what type of war you're going to have and when you're going to have it. The Architect is clearly a creature far beyond the other awakened in power and stature. It also clearly can't control the other awakened and didn't seem to care to control them beyond swatting away those that frustrated its plans.

 

 

 

Of course there's cooperation to be had. Not only in understanding the nature of the Blight, and the Song, but in addressing the non-awakened Darkspawn, and other Awakened factions that might arise. Then there's the quid-pro-quo aspect- of providing Warden Blood in exchange for desired actions.

 

The rise of Awakened factions is actually one of the more compelling reasons to maintain relations with the Architect, especially if we accept that conflict is inevitable. Diplomatic intelligence- just knowing what factions there are and what their intetions are- would be invaluable. It would allow not only the tracking of the Awakened evolution, but the rise of factions more actively or directly hostile to the surface- such as the return of another 'Mother' faction, or one that wants to hunt out and awaken the next Old God, and so on.

 

If the conflict with the Awakened is inevitable, knowing the factions in play will be vital. Thedas hasn't, and most likely couldn't, destroy the Darkspawn when they were stupid and hiding between Blights. The only realistic way to survive indefinitely, let alone win, will be to exploit and play of Darkspawn internal divisions. You can't do that if you don't engage.
 


The Architect says it doesn't care about the surface. Yet this is obviously false - it needs to send out its rape abominations out to bolster their numbers (unless it wants its faction to be extinct from sheer attrition) and it needs an ongoing source of grey warden blood to create more awakened.

 

 

Sheer attrition implies there's a constant conflict- which there need not be. Certainly there's no need for the Awakened to raid for Broodmothers against other Darkspawn- they can simply use conversion of the already existing darkspawns. Once the darkspawn hoard is under the control of the Awaken, then attrition will only occur if there's conflict between the two- which is what a separation/non-aggression pact would help with. Certainly there wouldn't be a need for a particular faction to raid for Warden blood if we had a voluntary arrangement- which itself would be a means to leverage influence and play off those factions against eachother.



#21
Dean_the_Young

Dean_the_Young
  • Members
  • 20 684 messages

I think the Mother merely pulled disciples away from the Architect who did not want to follow him anymore.

 

Let's rephrase this-

 

Is there any reason to believe she (or any other disciplies) don't know it?

 

The Mother's faction is crazy, and want the song back. It'd at least be conceivable that they wouldn't use it if they could, and so relied on conversion. But the Architect makes notes, and has disciples- what indication is there that he alone has the knowledge?

 

 

 

It isn't cooperation though. It's letting the Architect leave to do Maker-knows-what. Even my evil bloodmage Hero didn't spare him, because there was no opportunity to learn any of the Architect's magic or research findings. If my Hero can't control the Architect with close oversight, then there's no point in letting him go. Either way, you don't gain anything from him. So better to eliminate the possible threat than let it wander the shadows. The only pro to letting him go is the slight chance that the darkspawn will calm down and stop attacking people, which my evil bloodmage doesn't care about anyway.

 

 

Who says there is no opportunity to learn anything? The Architect and the Warden are not in contact for the vast majority of Awakening- whereas in DA2, we have content that indicates that the Wardens are, in fact, maintaining contact with the Architect.

 

If you're greedy and evil, the basis of personal advantage would be on the going forward basis- not on what didn't happen before you had the opportunity.

 

Moreover, the Architect's Maker-knows-what will continue as long as his disciples exist and continue to carry it out. You'd have a better chance of discovering Maker-knows-what, and preparing for its implications, if you don't burn your leads.

 

 

It will certainly delay it. If they have no clear leader, and if his secrets died with him, then it will definately be delayed.

 

 

Why would we believe his secrets die with him? The Architect keeps notes, and communicates, and has allies.

 

 

If conflict is inevitable, then having an alliance with the Architect will do no good. It isn't like he's going to notify you that he's going to attack.

 

 

Of course not. But he will notify you if other Awakened groups are going to attack until that point, while you can spy on his preparations through the medium and period of cooperation. In addition, conflict may be delayed as common interest pushes back Day 0 of renewed hostilities.

 

The rest comes from the benefits of the interim until the attack.

 

Killing the architect means the continuation of the status quo with the darkspawn until the Awaken consolidate into something new- and quite likely worse. Even until then, the status quo with the dark spawn is a losing proposition- the Orzammar dwarves are being ground out, the Old Gods being sought out, and the prospect of the eternal blight after the last Old God dies, when the Darkspawn have nothing drawing them down in the earth or any motive keeping them there. An eternal blight which, for good measure, is all but certain to have the Awakened be involved, for all the downsides of the Awakened being involved.

 

 

 

Better to kill him and try to steal his notes from the mines. Hand it off to Avernus to look at.

 

 

If his notes have value, he has more. If you can't find his allies in the Deeproads, why would you expect to find his notes once they flee?



#22
In Exile

In Exile
  • Members
  • 28 738 messages

 

Sheer attrition implies there's a constant conflict- which there need not be. Certainly there's no need for the Awakened to raid for Broodmothers against other Darkspawn- they can simply use conversion of the already existing darkspawns. Once the darkspawn hoard is under the control of the Awaken, then attrition will only occur if there's conflict between the two- which is what a separation/non-aggression pact would help with. Certainly there wouldn't be a need for a particular faction to raid for Warden blood if we had a voluntary arrangement- which itself would be a means to leverage influence and play off those factions against eachother.

 
No. It means a darkspawn tripped and broke its neck. People die, IRL, from all sorts of accidents. Even if we had 0 intraspecies conflict, and even if we were all ageless, we would still be extinct without reproducing because our numbers would be thinned by sheer chance injuries. 
 
Darkspawn will die through the mere passage of time because life is dangerous. This is where the need for the rape and mutation of non-darskpawn women comes from - the inevitability that the mere passage of time will lead to darkspawn death. 

 

Integration =/= co-existence. I'd agree on the former, not the later- after all, separate but surviving has been occuring for nearly a millenium between the surface and the deep roads.

 

I'm not talking about integration here. I'm talking about mere proximity. Non-darkspawn can't exist in the presence of darkspawn. Sufficient numbers of darkspawn on the surface actively eradicate life. Not just in terms of a virulent plague that poisons the land - we're talking blotted out sun, darkened skies, etc. Non-darkspawn can only exist at the whim of darkspawn. Right now, there's a detente because the darkspawn are bestial and underground. But that could change easily. It needn't be Awakened darkspawn that cause this change, of course. 

 

There's no analogy we can have to IRL human politics or relations because we're not actively poisonous to one another. Ignoring the fact that we can resolve cultural differences from mere intermingling, we have the basic fact that we can exist around each other physically for extended periods of time. 

 

Moreover, there's a particular question of whether the the (Awakened) Darkspawn want to reproduce. Certainly we haven't seen any indication that they've been farming broodmothers.

 

You mean, apart from the Mother, which has a multiple broodmothers breeding an army of darkspawn? But this is a point against the Architect. If we suddenly entertain the idea that the rest of the Awakened might be okay with extinction by way of attrition, we know for a fact the Architect is against it, because the Architect wants to preserve the darkspawn. 

 

If the Awakened might not want to reproduce, then this is an even greater reason to immediately exterminate the Architect - because he, at least, views the darkspawn as a people that he wants to preserve in the future. 

 

 

Of course there's cooperation to be had. Not only in understanding the nature of the Blight, and the Song, but in addressing the non-awakened Darkspawn, and other Awakened factions that might arise. Then there's the quid-pro-quo aspect- of providing Warden Blood in exchange for desired actions.

 

That doesn't work, because we're back to the impossibility of co-existence. A fundamental feature of cooperation is the hypothetical possibility that there is a possible future state that won't lead to a genocidal war of extinction. There's no such option with the darkspawn, apart from idealistic fantasies that are totally disconnected from their nature (i.e., they would voluntarily choose underground exile and isolation, and accept extinction by attribution).

 

More to the point, there's no evidence that there's a quid pro quo to be had, whether regarding knowledge or the equivalent of military intelligence . The Architect certainly doesn't at all suggest that there's any negotiation to be had regarding the nature of the Blight. Ignoring his methods and the methods of his crew, his sole overture is for you to clean up the mess he created. 

 

Apart from that, we do not meet any faction of Awakened willing to negotiate or engage with anything other than violence. There's one isolated non-hostile darkspawn we meet: the Messenger. Even the Architect is hostile. Judging the Awakened darkspawn by the conduct of the Messenger is a bit like judging humans by the character of cannibalistic rapists, in terms of outliers outside the moral norm. 

 

The rise of Awakened factions is actually one of the more compelling reasons to maintain relations with the Architect, especially if we accept that conflict is inevitable. Diplomatic intelligence- just knowing what factions there are and what their intetions are- would be invaluable. It would allow not only the tracking of the Awakened evolution, but the rise of factions more actively or directly hostile to the surface- such as the return of another 'Mother' faction, or one that wants to hunt out and awaken the next Old God, and so on.

 

Except for the fact that the Architect doesn't want to stop the Mother because it's dangerous to the surface. He wants to stop the Mother because she's dangerous to him and to his plans. The Architect doesn't offer darkspawn intelligence - which is to say information. He is actively hostile to you - his faction attacks and massacres the GWs, he personally kidnaps and experiments on you, etc. On our second meeting, he straight up tries to murder you with dragons! 

 

If the Architect didn't exist, there wouldn't be a Mother. In fact, there wouldn't have been a Fourth Blight. The Mother, ultimately, was defeat in the same way an AD and a blight would be defeated: cutting off the head of the beast and having the horde flee underground. Between the choice of the Architect or the Mother, the game establishes that the Mother is far, far, far less dangerous.  

 

The most "benevolent" Awakened faction is an active threat to all non-darkspawn life and openly hostile to it. Apart from a half-hearted apology from the Architect after kidnapping, experimenting on and attempting to kill you, we never really meet a "faction" that is anything but actively hostile to non-darkspawn, and that includes the Architect. 

 

 

If the conflict with the Awakened is inevitable, knowing the factions in play will be vital. Thedas hasn't, and most likely couldn't, destroy the Darkspawn when they were stupid and hiding between Blights. The only realistic way to survive indefinitely, let alone win, will be to exploit and play of Darkspawn internal divisions. You can't do that if you don't engage.

 

It's pure fantasy that the any Awakened faction will actually give this information away essential to their mass genocide, which is the only information that would be of any assistance. Certainly the Architect gives you no such information - he actively lies about his own faction and motives. The darkspawn are - as far as we know - entirely unstoppable. If there's anything that the Blights reveal is that conventional victory against the darkspawn is an impossible fantasy. 

 

Hoping that the darkspawn would cooperate towards finding the secret of a mass and absolute genocide of their entire race is silly, and everything we see about the Architect is that he's worse than all of the Awakened, because he's smarter, more powerful, and more inventive. There's nothing to engage with here. Plan A for the Architect is to turn every darkspawn into an Awakened, and it has the means to do it. That's apocalyptic. Any possible alternative is better than this one outcome. 

There's just an existential threat - the darkspawn  - a bigger existential threat - the Awakened darkspawn - and an even bigger and more absurd existential threat - the Architect. There's nothing to engage with here. It's the equivalent of trying to meet Corypehus halfway. 


  • AntiChri5 aime ceci

#23
Heimdall

Heimdall
  • Members
  • 13 237 messages

The Darkspawn are savage beasts who kill and rape because they obey THE CALLING.

Once the Calling is removed, they can be taught to abandon their beastial nature and act like normal beings (Seranni's words, Awakening DLC).

Take for instance the Disciple that fights by the Warden's side to save Amaranthine. The Epilogue goes on to show he continued to help many more humans whom he met years later.

Darkspawn are not inherently dark creatures. They are taught to be violent by other darkspawn who obey the Calling. So it's something they learn from their "culture". Darkness is not born with them. The taint makes them look sick and gruesome, but that's all. It doesn't twist their minds. It's the Calling that does that, the will of the Archdemon.

And those who are freed can be taught there is another way. That they can coexist with other beings. And some of them choose to follow that path, like the Disciple, much to our surprise.

They are beings who can learn to interact peacefully with other races and, given the chance, to form an underground society of their own, safely away from humans and other healthy lifeforms.

What does mankind gain from that? Less darkspawn hordes assaulting Thedas during a Blight. Maybe even darkspawn fighting alongside Wardens to help.

THAT is what the Architect is trying to do. Whatever he tried in the books, he has long forsaken. His only goal now is to awaken the darkspawn and to serve as a leader for those who are lost. Given the opportunity, his plan WILL work, as the Epilogue shows if his life is spared:

The Deep Roads have neve been quieter.

The primary problem is that darkspawn blood is still poisonous. In the case of the messenger, the epilogue states that he became a wandering do-gooder, but his efforts were accompanied by isolated outbreaks of the blight poisoning.

Can the darkspawn really integrate into a society to whom their very presence is poison?
  • Lady Artifice et ModernAcademic aiment ceci

#24
In Exile

In Exile
  • Members
  • 28 738 messages

The primary problem is that darkspawn blood is still poisonous. In the case of the messenger, the epilogue states that he became a wandering do-gooder, but his efforts were accompanied by isolated outbreaks of the blight poisoning.

Can the darkspawn really integrate into a society to whom their very presence is poison?

 

And this doesn't quite convey the horror. Getting the blight turns people into ghouls. It turns women into ghouls. And guess what road that culminates in (ends with "-mother"). Basically any fate that could befall these people is better than being "saved" by the Messenger. 



#25
Reznore57

Reznore57
  • Members
  • 6 144 messages

Humans and darkspawn can't coexist.

The taint just ruins everything , lands turn arid and corrupted , animals gets corrupted and die , same with humans and pretty much everything.Lyrium gets even more dangerous.

It's not the darkspawn fault , they spread the disease wether they want it or not.

But the only good plan is exterminating the darkspawn and nothing else.

I doubt you can cure the darkspawn , it would require serious magic , the Blight sustain them so whatever organs they do have are probably in bad shapes , there's no telling if they could live without the taint.

 

I kill the Architect everytime , dude had a terrible stupid plan  spreading the Blight everywhere , killing almost everyone and the few ghouls surviving could live in peace in a wasteland with the darkspawn.

Yeah.Right.


  • AntiChri5 aime ceci