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Revival of the Friendship/Rivalry Romance for ME:A?


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#51
Lucca_de_Neon

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Makes me wish for a totally different ME where Saren isn't a clear enemy but instead a rival specter that you become friends with throughout dozens of missions and as you slowly unravel the Reaper threat you find out Saren was trying to foil you as he was indoctrinated. Maybe he could lead you into a death trap where you are stuck near reaper tech so you can see the light like him.

Have the same end but the choices and killing of Saren would have a lot more impact if he was seen as a friend who was being mind controlled and not a enemy that gave on to a monster to save his own skin.

Again, i have to agree with everything. I'm not one for the loyalty/rivalry thing but now i'm thinking that maybe my rejection to the idea has more to do with how it was presented than with what the idea was. An approach like this one would be great..difficult..but great.


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#52
Ahglock

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Oh, touché! One of my most powerful relationships was with this girl that was studying to be a lawyer while I own a workshop and race a motorbike. Leathers and suits don't mix so well. It was powerful indeed, lasted for some years and many plates flew across the rooms many times but..there was always a way to fix it. However the relationship didn't work at the end. Our choices and lifestyles were too different. So there you have my 10 cents!. The attraction might be there..but i don't think that something like this is what most players and Bioware are after. (btw: 1- Thank you for being such a kind and patient psychiatrist ^^ 2- if you want real romances, you just need real examples)


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#53
Lucca_de_Neon

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I'm not sure why a job makes you fundamentally different. That's a depressing outlook on life.

It was not the job per se. It was the schedules and activities. Sometimes, i had to be away from home for days because of a race in another province and she couldn't come because she had to study...and there were other things aswel..she wanted to get married and of course that means that the next step was adopting...and we are walking into a very personal story. But trust me..it deeply conected to what we were, what we are and what we look forward to. It defines a huge portion of who and what we are and (AT LEAST IN MY CASE) it didn't work. Like i said: my 10 cents! nothing more ^^


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#54
Dean_the_Young

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Yeah, I don't think it's a bad concept per se, but it could use some tweaking.  I do like the idea of allowing relationships to develop through rivalries.  There was really some great potential here.  Think of Carver and Hawke - what a great and compelling relationship between these characters.  They fight constantly but, at the end of the day, love each other and will do anything to protect each other.  I really thought it was great.  Merrill was great too because the rivalry was about protecting her from herself against her wishes.  But, as others have pointed out, it didn't work so well with some of the other characters.  Why would Isabela (a notoriously fickle lady) stick around with someone who she thinks is too stuffy and dull?  Why would Anders stick around with a Pro-Circle, Pro-Templar Hawke?  Why would Fenris stick around with a slaver Hawke?  Just doesn't make sense.  But if they could find ways to make the rivalry work for each of the characters, I think that there could be a lot of really interesting and unique stories to be told.

 

I actually came to liking the themes of the rivalmances more than friendmances. Friendmances were the no-drama, no-issue, and never really challenged the flaws of the people in question- whether you thought they needed correction or not. It was basically 'I'm with you all the way'- which is good as an option, but less as a theme of being, well, a good friend to troubled people. Unconditional support isn't always best, when some people need a loving kick in the butt.

 

 

The biggest issue with Rivalry in my view was that it conflated 'principle I disagree with but can respect' with 'things I don't like.' When chiding someone on the value of responsibility gets the same effect as, oh, killing a child, there's a disconnect.


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#55
Hiemoth

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I actually came to liking the themes of the rivalmances more than friendmances. Friendmances were the no-drama, no-issue, and never really challenged the flaws of the people in question- whether you thought they needed correction or not. It was basically 'I'm with you all the way'- which is good as an option, but less as a theme of being, well, a good friend to troubled people. Unconditional support isn't always best, when some people need a loving kick in the butt.

 

 

The biggest issue with Rivalry in my view was that it conflated 'principle I disagree with but can respect' with 'things I don't like.' When chiding someone on the value of responsibility gets the same effect as, oh, killing a child, there's a disconnect.

 

Gaider once mentioned in an interview about the friendship/rivalries something to the effect that how many players, when going with the friendship path with Merrill and enabling her behaviour in the game, were shocked that in this path they couldn't really confront Merrill about what she was doing. And that it just baffled him why people would think enabling Merrill's behavior would in the end help her. For me, it captured for me the difficulty with both the mechanics and perception of the rivalry system as it was probably one of the most complex representation of the relationships in RPGs so far, being done with very little to base it on. In addition for allowing that dichtomy, it was also unique to each character. With Aveline, it represented how she struggled with had she made a difference in Kirkwall. With Varric, it was who Hawke was, was s/he someone to admire or despise. With Fenris, it was someone struggling with their rage and how Hawke dealt with that.The previous approval system, which made it's return in DAI, was simplistic to the extreme, where approval is good and disapproval is bad, with no real opportunity to challenge companions on anything.

 

It needs to be repeated that I don't think the rivalry system was perfect, for example the comparison you mentioned is a great point on how it sometimes causes that what moment, There's was the color issue, which Bioware has admitted being a mistake, and the fact that there was really little introduction within the game itself to the system. But I am so sad that they moved away from it in DAI and probably are going to stay away, as while having issues, the rivalry system showed promise for me and you could see how it could be improved, while DAI kind of showed for me how ultimately limited the approval system. Especially after having played the rivalry system.


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#56
Dean_the_Young

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Gaider once mentioned in an interview about the friendship/rivalries something to the effect that how many players, when going with the friendship path with Merrill and enabling her behaviour in the game, were shocked that in this path they couldn't really confront Merrill about what she was doing. And that it just baffled him why people would think enabling Merrill's behavior would in the end help her. For me, it captured for me the difficulty with both the mechanics and perception of the rivalry system as it was probably one of the most complex representation of the relationships in RPGs so far, being done with very little to base it on. In addition for allowing that dichtomy, it was also unique to each character. With Aveline, it represented how she struggled with had she made a difference in Kirkwall. With Varric, it was who Hawke was, was s/he someone to admire or despise. With Fenris, it was someone struggling with their rage and how Hawke dealt with that.The previous approval system, which made it's return in DAI, was simplistic to the extreme, where approval is good and disapproval is bad, with no real opportunity to challenge companions on anything.

 

It needs to be repeated that I don't think the rivalry system was perfect, for example the comparison you mentioned is a great point on how it sometimes causes that what moment, There's was the color issue, which Bioware has admitted being a mistake, and the fact that there was really little introduction within the game itself to the system. But I am so sad that they moved away from it in DAI and probably are going to stay away, as while having issues, the rivalry system showed promise for me and you could see how it could be improved, while DAI kind of showed for me how ultimately limited the approval system. Especially after having played the rivalry system.

 

 

 

I've wondered for awhile now if an updated Rivalry system might benefit from including the sort of reputation mechanic that gave ME3 players non-P/R influence that aided in those persuasion checks.

 

Call it, I don't know, 'Respect'- similar to approval, but encompassing both Friendship and Rivalry paths.

 

Respect is basically the 'reputation' idea of ME3- colorless points that don't change the balance of Friendship/Rivalry, but make the pool bigger (or smaller) as you gain or lose it.

 

Respect goes up with approval and things that the character likes, but also with Rivalry actions- they may not agree with you, but they can respect your difference of opinion. Respect can go up for accomplishing minor missions (respect for your abilities), and for providing the sort justifications for your decisions that the character respects- ie, Morrigan doesn't like charity, but could respect benevolent self-interest if you point out that you stand to gain from it.

 

Respect goes down with outright disapproval- hurting both Friendship and Rivalry meters, because now you're doing things they consider actively bad, rather than principled disagreement. Returning to the Morrigan example, giving charity but asking for nothing in return would lose respect. Losing respect is harder than earning it (just by proving your abilities and power by completing tasks you'd be bringing in lots of Respect points), and would normally come from either how you justify a decision (making emotional appeals to someone who wants reasoned justifications) or doing something they see no redeeming merit in whatsoever (ie, resorting to bloodmagic).

 

Friendship/Rivalry and Respect/Disrespect would often overlap (Morrigan would Friendship and Respect selfishness and personal advantage- the classic 'approve'), but they could also go in different directions. Morrigan would gain rivalry from charity regardless, but the dialogue justication would determine whether you gained respect (benevolent self-interest) or lost it (you're a fool).

 

On a friendship front, friendship wouldn't always go hand-in-hand with respect either: taking a position a character lies, but for the wrong reasons/wrong means, could allow that ideological/personal agreement even as it costs something as well. Consider the case of Blackwall- breaking him out could increase your friendship if you were already on that path, but your reasons for doing so- but you reasons for doing so (saying something like 'you're my friend' rather than 'you've earned redemption') could lose respect. He likes you, but also feels let down by you. Another example of friendship not equaling approval would be, say, Casandra and reforming the Chantry. Casandra likes reforms (Friendship) as opposed to thinking nothing needs to change (Rivalry), but she doesn't approve of reckless/radical reforming that risk tearing the Chantry apart in the process (Disrespect).

 

 

So, in summary- Respect/disrespect works in parallel to Friendship/Rivalry.

 

Friendship and Rivalry represent how the characters feel about you from those Big (and little) Decisions in which the player makes a stand on something the character cares about. The character has three balances- they either like you, rival you, or can't make up their minds about you.

 

Respect is how emotionally invested the Companion is in the PC. Strong respect ties into good feelings, even if the player disagrees as a rival. Low or negative respect is what ties into outright dislike.

 

 

That's a rough sketch of the concept. Why bother, though? What's the advantage?

 

 

-Tying in 'Respect' de-links 'Rivalry' from 'things I hate' and broader friendship (the concept, not the category) from 'sycophantically agreeing with me.' A friend/close companion isn't someone who just agrees, and a rival isn't the same as a child killer just because they both do things you don't agree with.

 

-Friendship/Rivaly and Approval/Disapproval no longer need to be a limiting zero-sum. Zero-sum morality systems, where extremes are mutually exclusive (think DA2's implementation of F/R, or ME2's P/R) suffer when player is locked out of content for not being extreme enough. By tying strength of emotion to a different stat (respect), now a zero-sum Friendship/Rivalry system can serve as a better barometer of what sort of feelings the NPC has.

 

-Gating by Respect can not only allows F/R balance to determine tone rather than access (avoiding the zero-sum trap), but can also help pace companion arc content. As Respect is intended to be accrued across the game even by completing non-controversial non-Friend/Rival missions, this would allow gradual opening that isn't strictly plot-tied.

 

-Respect would also be a good means to allow romances other than pure F/R: you may be mixed enough that a companion doesn't have a strong agreement/disagreement, but you're still close. The archetypical 'we don't always agree, but-'

 

 

 

On the other hand, there are some costs to trying something like that. Just to recognize what I'm thinking isn't so easy...

 

 

Increased word budget costs. Approval/disapproval has a simplicity in that the companions hate you, or not. Friendship/Rivalry had two parallel companion/romance arcs. A Respect F/R system could add even more- Friendship, Rivalry, Middling, and still need a few more scenes for outright disrespect.

 

A (lack of) character antagonism. Depending on how you set up the respect system, getting outright hated could be hard- if Respect points are too easy (such as every mission), then character opinion will rise. This isn't necessarily a bad thing- Bioware frequently has canonical friends of sorts- but it'd be hard to have a scene like Cassandra being drunk and denouncing the player if respect rolls up for anything and everything. It'd be like trying to get a low-EMS score in ME3- possible, but difficult if you play most the content.

 

Coding complexities. Having two systems, that interact, influence things would no doubt be asking for trouble. Logic checks would have to be checking two different values (F/R and Respect), while needing to track previous conversation types in case you switch F/R or lose Respect and go back below a threshhold.

 

(Still) needing some re-balancing of the F/R system while you're at it. DA2 had some mechanics for emphasizing F/R division, such as gifts that gave F or R points depending on your path. That would still be useful, especially for mitigating the middling route requirements.

 

 

 

 

 

Getting hated would be hard

 

Three relationship balances

 

Need non-respect gates of some sort.


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#57
9TailsFox

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Gaider once mentioned in an interview about the friendship/rivalries something to the effect that how many players, when going with the friendship path with Merrill and enabling her behaviour in the game, were shocked that in this path they couldn't really confront Merrill about what she was doing. And that it just baffled him why people would think enabling Merrill's behavior would in the end help her. For me, it captured for me the difficulty with both the mechanics and perception of the rivalry system as it was probably one of the most complex representation of the relationships in RPGs so far, being done with very little to base it on. In addition for allowing that dichtomy, it was also unique to each character. With Aveline, it represented how she struggled with had she made a difference in Kirkwall. With Varric, it was who Hawke was, was s/he someone to admire or despise. With Fenris, it was someone struggling with their rage and how Hawke dealt with that.The previous approval system, which made it's return in DAI, was simplistic to the extreme, where approval is good and disapproval is bad, with no real opportunity to challenge companions on anything.

 

It needs to be repeated that I don't think the rivalry system was perfect, for example the comparison you mentioned is a great point on how it sometimes causes that what moment, There's was the color issue, which Bioware has admitted being a mistake, and the fact that there was really little introduction within the game itself to the system. But I am so sad that they moved away from it in DAI and probably are going to stay away, as while having issues, the rivalry system showed promise for me and you could see how it could be improved, while DAI kind of showed for me how ultimately limited the approval system. Especially after having played the rivalry system.

I am one of people who think friendship good rivalry bad same as in origins. Yes it some part my fault but Bioware is mainly at fault they gave no explanation and of course people who played first DA assume it's same think. I don't know if we should explore rivalry/friendship more. Merril is perfect example why friendship/rivalry is good, but on the other hand Anders is perfect example why it's very bad. Anders shouldn't respect Hawke he should kill him first time hawke harm mage Hawke can oppress mages left and right and Anders I am cool I am cool really? Justice/vengeance should transform into biggest demon possible and eat Hawke.

 

And we should have 2 separate pools positive and negative just one don't make sense. And I think DA:I did it best point don't affect character but actions like iron bull chargers even if I think bull should decide not Inquisitor. Cole human/spirit and so on.



#58
In Exile

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I actually came to liking the themes of the rivalmances more than friendmances. Friendmances were the no-drama, no-issue, and never really challenged the flaws of the people in question- whether you thought they needed correction or not. It was basically 'I'm with you all the way'- which is good as an option, but less as a theme of being, well, a good friend to troubled people. Unconditional support isn't always best, when some people need a loving kick in the butt.

 

 

The biggest issue with Rivalry in my view was that it conflated 'principle I disagree with but can respect' with 'things I don't like.' When chiding someone on the value of responsibility gets the same effect as, oh, killing a child, there's a disconnect.

 

The problem was also that some issues got conflated. Like, for Anders, rivalry => pro-templar and anti-Justice. Which leads to issues, because thinking that Anders's +1 is a bad idea and that his plots for freedom are bad

 

I've wondered for awhile now if an updated Rivalry system might benefit from including the sort of reputation mechanic that gave ME3 players non-P/R influence that aided in those persuasion checks.

 

Call it, I don't know, 'Respect'- similar to approval, but encompassing both Friendship and Rivalry paths.

 

Respect is basically the 'reputation' idea of ME3- colorless points that don't change the balance of Friendship/Rivalry, but make the pool bigger (or smaller) as you gain or lose it.

 

Respect goes up with approval and things that the character likes, but also with Rivalry actions- they may not agree with you, but they can respect your difference of opinion. Respect can go up for accomplishing minor missions (respect for your abilities), and for providing the sort justifications for your decisions that the character respects- ie, Morrigan doesn't like charity, but could respect benevolent self-interest if you point out that you stand to gain from it.

 

Respect goes down with outright disapproval- hurting both Friendship and Rivalry meters, because now you're doing things they consider actively bad, rather than principled disagreement. Returning to the Morrigan example, giving charity but asking for nothing in return would lose respect. Losing respect is harder than earning it (just by proving your abilities and power by completing tasks you'd be bringing in lots of Respect points), and would normally come from either how you justify a decision (making emotional appeals to someone who wants reasoned justifications) or doing something they see no redeeming merit in whatsoever (ie, resorting to bloodmagic).

 

Friendship/Rivalry and Respect/Disrespect would often overlap (Morrigan would Friendship and Respect selfishness and personal advantage- the classic 'approve'), but they could also go in different directions. Morrigan would gain rivalry from charity regardless, but the dialogue justication would determine whether you gained respect (benevolent self-interest) or lost it (you're a fool).

 

On a friendship front, friendship wouldn't always go hand-in-hand with respect either: taking a position a character lies, but for the wrong reasons/wrong means, could allow that ideological/personal agreement even as it costs something as well. Consider the case of Blackwall- breaking him out could increase your friendship if you were already on that path, but your reasons for doing so- but you reasons for doing so (saying something like 'you're my friend' rather than 'you've earned redemption') could lose respect. He likes you, but also feels let down by you. Another example of friendship not equaling approval would be, say, Casandra and reforming the Chantry. Casandra likes reforms (Friendship) as opposed to thinking nothing needs to change (Rivalry), but she doesn't approve of reckless/radical reforming that risk tearing the Chantry apart in the process (Disrespect).

 

 

So, in summary- Respect/disrespect works in parallel to Friendship/Rivalry.

 

Friendship and Rivalry represent how the characters feel about you from those Big (and little) Decisions in which the player makes a stand on something the character cares about. The character has three balances- they either like you, rival you, or can't make up their minds about you.

 

Respect is how emotionally invested the Companion is in the PC. Strong respect ties into good feelings, even if the player disagrees as a rival. Low or negative respect is what ties into outright dislike.

 

 

That's a rough sketch of the concept. Why bother, though? What's the advantage?

 

 

-Tying in 'Respect' de-links 'Rivalry' from 'things I hate' and broader friendship (the concept, not the category) from 'sycophantically agreeing with me.' A friend/close companion isn't someone who just agrees, and a rival isn't the same as a child killer just because they both do things you don't agree with.

 

-Friendship/Rivaly and Approval/Disapproval no longer need to be a limiting zero-sum. Zero-sum morality systems, where extremes are mutually exclusive (think DA2's implementation of F/R, or ME2's P/R) suffer when player is locked out of content for not being extreme enough. By tying strength of emotion to a different stat (respect), now a zero-sum Friendship/Rivalry system can serve as a better barometer of what sort of feelings the NPC has.

 

-Gating by Respect can not only allows F/R balance to determine tone rather than access (avoiding the zero-sum trap), but can also help pace companion arc content. As Respect is intended to be accrued across the game even by completing non-controversial non-Friend/Rival missions, this would allow gradual opening that isn't strictly plot-tied.

 

-Respect would also be a good means to allow romances other than pure F/R: you may be mixed enough that a companion doesn't have a strong agreement/disagreement, but you're still close. The archetypical 'we don't always agree, but-'

 

 

 

On the other hand, there are some costs to trying something like that. Just to recognize what I'm thinking isn't so easy...

 

 

Increased word budget costs. Approval/disapproval has a simplicity in that the companions hate you, or not. Friendship/Rivalry had two parallel companion/romance arcs. A Respect F/R system could add even more- Friendship, Rivalry, Middling, and still need a few more scenes for outright disrespect.

 

A (lack of) character antagonism. Depending on how you set up the respect system, getting outright hated could be hard- if Respect points are too easy (such as every mission), then character opinion will rise. This isn't necessarily a bad thing- Bioware frequently has canonical friends of sorts- but it'd be hard to have a scene like Cassandra being drunk and denouncing the player if respect rolls up for anything and everything. It'd be like trying to get a low-EMS score in ME3- possible, but difficult if you play most the content.

 

Coding complexities. Having two systems, that interact, influence things would no doubt be asking for trouble. Logic checks would have to be checking two different values (F/R and Respect), while needing to track previous conversation types in case you switch F/R or lose Respect and go back below a threshhold.

 

(Still) needing some re-balancing of the F/R system while you're at it. DA2 had some mechanics for emphasizing F/R division, such as gifts that gave F or R points depending on your path. That would still be useful, especially for mitigating the middling route requirements.

 

 

 

 

 

Getting hated would be hard

 

Three relationship balances

 

Need non-respect gates of some sort.

 

Once you create 4 quadrants for a relationship you also have the problem that you have lots of ways of getting stuck in the middle. Essentially, you'd need to have multiple states for each character, which would require a substantial investment in each companion. I don't think this is a system that can work without limiting the game, essentially, to around 3 or 4 companions entirely. But it's a good idea. 



#59
Hiemoth

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The problem was also that some issues got conflated. Like, for Anders, rivalry => pro-templar and anti-Justice. Which leads to issues, because thinking that Anders's +1 is a bad idea and that his plots for freedom are bad

 

 

Once you create 4 quadrants for a relationship you also have the problem that you have lots of ways of getting stuck in the middle. Essentially, you'd need to have multiple states for each character, which would require a substantial investment in each companion. I don't think this is a system that can work without limiting the game, essentially, to around 3 or 4 companions entirely. But it's a good idea. 

 

Yeah, as much as I liked Anders story, his F/R was a great example how much work was still needed and how careful the designers had to be when combining those ideas. Not as problematic was Isabela, even there the system was a bit contradictory. Hawke being altruistic gets rivalry with Isabela, which fits character completely. However, if Hawke agrees to help Isabela without questions, hence is altruistic towards Isabela, Hawke gets major friendship points with Isabela. I always avoided falling in the neutral with Isabela, but I could easily see how it could happen, as said the F/R system was far from perfect, but for me it had a major promise if further developed.

 

As for the 4 quadrants, I agree that as a concept it is good, but also mentioned it is really easy to hit the neutral there and the resources needed to implement are so large that I think Gaider has explicitly stated that BW has no interest in implementing such a system. For me, the current ideal 'realistic' system would be still a two tier Friendship/Rivalry system, but that the scenes would be triggered by personal approval. So if you are a jerk towards the companion, you get no scenes, but if you treat them with respect, the scene you get is either the friendship or rivalry scene based on actions.

 

 

I am one of people who think friendship good rivalry bad same as in origins. Yes it some part my fault but Bioware is mainly at fault they gave no explanation and of course people who played first DA assume it's same think. I don't know if we should explore rivalry/friendship more. Merril is perfect example why friendship/rivalry is good, but on the other hand Anders is perfect example why it's very bad. Anders shouldn't respect Hawke he should kill him first time hawke harm mage Hawke can oppress mages left and right and Anders I am cool I am cool really? Justice/vengeance should transform into biggest demon possible and eat Hawke.

 

And we should have 2 separate pools positive and negative just one don't make sense. And I think DA:I did it best point don't affect character but actions like iron bull chargers even if I think bull should decide not Inquisitor. Cole human/spirit and so on.

 

As said, I didn't personally have issues with the Anders path in DA2, so I can't much comment to that, but I agree there was more work that could have done with that. However, the latter comment about DAI is something I do ponder on as it was really weird. As mentioned, most of the approval choices in DAI are actually reflective of personal values instead of the IQ being a jerk or personally offensive towards the companion. This would thus feed much better in to the friendship/rivalry system as it is a clash of idealogies instead of the approval system, which is more of a reflection how much the companion likes the IQ.

 

This leads to those, for me, really weird negative approval scenes where the companions behave as though the IQ having different ideals than them as being personally offensive to them. The scenes we got would have fitted better, again for me, if they had been more on how the IQ behaves towards the companions instead of how the IQ views the world.


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#60
Chardonney

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No, just no. BW, please keep the rivalry system as far away as possible from MEA.



#61
Felya87

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I didn't like the DA2 rivalry/friendship machanism. It never made sense to me why characters that hate you would still fight alongside you, ask help for their personal problems or even go to bed with you. Really take me out of immersion. It feel too much "character X will still be with you even if s/he hate your guts and would kill you in your sleep because this is a game".

 

I'd like, ovewer, the chance to have different kind of approach to friendship and romances. Like having a more affectionate friendship with jokes and evenings at the pub, or a more professional one, based on the respect of each other ability.


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#62
Nightdragon8

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Honestly in DA2 it never made sense why they would stick around if you pissed them off so much. Or just didn't get along with you.

 

In DA:O It would make sense becuase you know blight and all. Same with DA:I Big hole in the sky with a darkspawn/ archdemon behind things.

 

In ME1, it would have maybe made sense, but only towards the end of the game. in ME2, yes, mainly because of the highered help and they work with an organization. in ME3... yes pretty much in of the universe sort of situation.

 

So in ME:A if there isn't a big bad that everyone is going to face right off the bat. then I don't think it shoudl be in there.



#63
Annos Basin

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I never rivalmanced anyone in DA2, I'm just happy if the character my protagonistr seems to get along with the most is available (regardless looks, genders or races; I like a story where they manage to find someone compatible). Overall I enjoyed the rivalry system more than relationships in DAO which sometimes felt like either gift spamming or locked content due lacking approval. I don't mind scheming and calculating (or using hindsight during 2nd playthrough) with plot and puzzles, but you know, with relationships (they don't even have to be romantic) it's fun to just choose the line you'd honestly want to say out of options and see how other characters react. I did enjoy interaction in DAI too, often more than in DA2, though now that it was mentioned, it would had been suitable for the protagonist to be able to be at least as passionate about disagreements as the person they talked to was. But in short, I guess what I'm after is a feeling of something going on with all of your companions even when you're not romancing them, even if romance moments are of course my faves too.

 

Anyway I'm kinda thankful I didn't really have a chance to build a rivalry with Zaeed or Jack. My paragon disagreed with them on many things, but both were some of my fave characters and I'm so glad they didn't turn out to be renegades' exclusive buddies. Rivalry with Miranda might had interested me, she was with Cerberus after all, and didn't always explain herself as much as I would had wanted to hear (that's maybe smart, but personally also slightly grating from someone you're trying to work with :D ).

 

 

I wish ME and DA conversation systems stay separate, for now, and Andromeda would concentrate on continuing and improving interaction seen in ME trilogy. Aside from some ninjamances you'd encounter during lonersingle playthroughs without using guides, and maybe one or two autodialogue moment in ME3, Shepard has worked with maybe the most gripping and fun and interesting crews I've seen in any game. So these game are certainly doing something right, whatever it is!

[edit. I wonder if they could continue with the similar ME mood and style without paragon/renegade system. In theory I'd like it to be dropped in favor of being able to express more complex (and not necessarily always consistent) opinions and emotions - as much as you can afford to show emotions in space and in your position.]

 

(It seems my post turned into completely about friendship even if heading mentions romances. Might as well still post since it's written.)