38 réponses à ce sujet

[9TailsFox]

Who would defeat 6 blight? If Morrigan want my Warden wouldn't mind second kid.

[Cute Nug]

In Peace, Vigilance kill the Divine for a darkspawn magister.

In War, Victory create a demon army and fight the inquisition for an evil cult lead by a darkspawn.

In Death, Sacrifice finally the Calling to be pathologically Derpy ends.

 

Can the Derp Wardens repair their screw ups or should they step aside for the creation of a better order against the blight?

 

I liked that you could call them on their stupidity in DAI. Might be interesting to see what happens in DA4 if Bioware moves past just making them derpy.

[myahele]

If nations can create their own Grey Wardens then the Warden Order as we know it won't be needed.

 

I am not sure what potential consequences that would do, though.

 

The Wardens in Weishaupt probably have alot of knowledge ... then again how much do they know? The Wardens seem to be deteriorating if they more or less forgot about Corypheus being kept sealed

[ModernAcademic]

The Wardens in Weishaupt probably have alot of knowledge ... then again how much do they know? The Wardens seem to be deteriorating if they more or less forgot about Corypheus being kept sealed

 

This is one of the main reasons why I believe the Epilogue shows the Order running the risk of disappearing after the Inquisition exiles them. 

 

Many times as I played as the Warden, I wondered: why can't I communicate with central command? Why must I make every major decision concerning the fate of the Order in Ferelden without guidance from Weisshaupt? How do I know I'm not violating any principles of the Order? With who do I confer about making political and military decisions?

 

To leave Wardens to command the many cells in Thedas on their own, without any guidance is...irresponsible, to say the least. No wonder a Magister from Tevinter found it so easy to sneak his way in the Orlesian Order.

[Reznore57]

This is one of the main reasons why I believe the Epilogue shows the Order running the risk of disappearing after the Inquisition exiles them. 

 

Many times as I played as the Warden, I wondered: why can't I communicate with central command? Why must I make every major decision concerning the fate of the Order in Ferelden without guidance from Weisshaupt? How do I know I'm not violating any principles of the Order? With who do I confer about making political and military decisions?

 

To leave Wardens to command the many cells in Thedas on their own, without any guidance is...irresponsible, to say the least. No wonder a Magister from Tevinter found it so easy to sneak his way in the Orlesian Order.

 

The wardens are on the decline since the 4th Blight , the loss of griffons hit them hard.It was easier being spread all over Thedas , even in crappy place like the Western Approach where there's few trading roads.The Griffons were fast and could go anywhere.

On top of that people assumed the darkspawn threat was over , so less people interested in the Order.

Less recruit , less people willing to donate things .

 

The 5th Blight didn't help at all , it only lasted a year and was barely noticed being located in Ferelden .

In DAI you can hear multiple time people sour about the wardens , 'they take our stuff , they conscript people ".

Basically without a huge Blight for hundred of years , people thinks wardens are just a bunch of useless thugs stealing their stuff in the name of old useless treaties.

 

It's no wonder things are bad in Weisshaupt , and the first warden is looking for political power.At this rate in a hundred of years , the wardens won't be ready to face any Blight.

So it seems right now the wardens are divided , some wants to be more open with their secrets and provide some help with stuff unrelated to the Blight , and others are feeling more ruthless and wants to grab more political power and keep the secret elite order going on.

[myahele]

I wonder how things would have been if Loghain had not prevented the Orlesian Wardens from entering Ferelden.

 

Then again, I am sure the Orlesian wardens sent word to Weishaupt about the situation in Ferelden and asked what to do

[Dai Grepher]

I don't understand why people here think the order is in danger. Not only do they have the undying support of Orzammar, but Ferelden is always indebted to them no matter what outcome. Vigil's Keep stands as a constant reminder of that, and I think this is even the case if the Keep is destroyed.

 

The order was smarting before the Fifth Blight because of Sophia, mostly. But I think the Fifth Blight did give them a boost.

 

The Grey Wardens are not all bad. They simply need some well-thought corrections. Not to inject the Hero of Ferelden into this, but establishing the Silver Order and reforming the Grey Wardens in Ferelden to protect the people is a good start.

 

Also, where does it say the First Warden is more interested in politics? Is this in a novel or something? The way I understood it, he was simply worried about politics undermining their ability to fight the Darkspawn. There was the issue with Sophia, and whether a Warden is King of Ferelden or just the acting Arl of Amaranthine, that too can have consequences, which is why the First sends Woolsey to monitor the situation. But I didn't see anything about him amassing political power for himself. And if he is, the why? Is it to ensure that the order will have all it needs in case another Blight takes place, or is it out of personal greed? I don't see how it benefits him directly. Not when he only has a maximum of 28 years before his mind starts to go. Probably much less if it took him years to rise to the rank of First.

[TobiTobsen]

I don't understand why people here think the order is in danger. Not only do they have the undying support of Orzammar, but Ferelden is always indebted to them no matter what outcome. Vigil's Keep stands as a constant reminder of that, and I think this is even the case if the Keep is destroyed.

 

Thedas is quick to adopt an "out of sight, out of mind" approach the second an Archdemon falls. Nobody cares about the Wardens or the Dwarves and their Darkspawn problem if there is no Blight. Those two factions are slowly but surely losing a centuries-old war, nobody gives a damn and they have never and will not start to care until Orzammar finally falls and the Darkspawn spill out of the Deep Roads unhindered.

 

 

 

Also, where does it say the First Warden is more interested in politics? Is this in a novel or something? The way I understood it, he was simply worried about politics undermining their ability to fight the Darkspawn. There was the issue with Sophia, and whether a Warden is King of Ferelden or just the acting Arl of Amaranthine, that too can have consequences, which is why the First sends Woolsey to monitor the situation. But I didn't see anything about him amassing political power for himself. And if he is, the why? Is it to ensure that the order will have all it needs in case another Blight takes place, or is it out of personal greed? I don't see how it benefits him directly. Not when he only has a maximum of 28 years before his mind starts to go. Probably much less if it took him years to rise to the rank of First.

 

Nearly every codex entry about the Wardens, Anderfels or the First Warden himself will mention it and the World of Thedas is backing it up.

The king of Anderfels is weak, his grasp barely reaching further than the walls of his capital and the Wardens are, in all but name, judge, jury and executioner outside of Hossberg already.

Since the loss of the Griffons the post of First Warden is mainly political anyway, because the Commanders have to make decisions quickly and can't wait for command from Weisshaupt, but the current one seems to be especially deep in the scheming business. The report you get as Warden Commander of Amaranthine is basically telling you that you're on your own.

 

"The nominal leader of our order is the First Warden, but you can expect little assistance or guidance so far from the Anderfels. Even those close to Weisshaupt learn to suffer alone. The murmurs are true--the First Warden is often embroiled in the politics of the Anderfels and has little opportunity to consider worldly matters. I would like to believe it is a matter of survival, not of political self-interest.

 

Know that your mission is vital. You carry the hopes of our order. If the highest among us holds noble titles outside of the Anderfels, perhaps we will be better situated when the next Blight comes, as we all know it must.

 

--A confidential report for the Warden-Commander"

[Gervaise]

DAI did seem to reinforce the idea that no one was particularly grateful or supportive of the Wardens.    Even if you don't ask Leliana to put the boot in after exiling them, other countries seem to encourage their departure in the epilogue.    It is more positive if you don't make them leave but we still had people demanding we return contributions after Blackwall was revealed to be not Blackwall.    Even if he wasn't a warden we were still using the resources to fight a darkspawn Magister, so effectively doing the Warden's work.  

 

As for the example of Vigil's Keep, that was all but ignored in DAI.   There was no reference to this autonomous Warden outpost, no attempt to contact them to see if they knew what was up with the Warden's and no reference to the Silver Order that my Warden had set up.  Then in Trespasser Teagan felt justified in bad mouthing the Wardens and using Sophie Dryden as an example of how Ferelden dealt with upstarts trying to take temporal power.   This completely ignored the 5th Blight and the fact that the Warden had successfully been managing the area around Vigil's Keep on behalf of the Wardens and with the approval of the monarch.  Instead of tamely accepting his criticism, I'd have liked to have been able to point to that example and suggest that we had been doing a similar job in Crestwood, bearing in mind that no one else had bothered, so all that was lacking was the official stamp of approval.   

 

What was odd about Trespasser though was the fact that we had Varric at the beginning saying he hadn't yet heard from Hawke (if alive) and then by the end Hawke was back helping him running Kirkwall, with no indication of what happened in between apart from Varric's suggestion of Weishauppt crashing down whilst Hawke walked away from the destruction.   I don't know whether that was a hint at the truth or we are going to have to wait and see.

 

Don't know how long they take to grow but according to Last Flight they have now got griffons again.

[myahele]

I highly doubt that the Wardens will go "extinct" However, the events of DAI (many Southern Wardens die regardless of decision) and the internal turmoil in Weishaupt Wardens I can see their numbers greatly diminish.

 

Especially if the ruler(s) of Anderfels do something to weaken the power of the Wardens their: either side with __ nation to kill them off or to exile them pre-emptively. Sadly, this kinda seem to be a potential plot point for either a novel or even in DA4.

 

In either case, there'll be Wardens since their spread throughout Thedas. If the 6th Blight appears then it'll be like how it was with other Blights: it'll take years to defeat the Archdemon. DA:O was just an anomaly due to it being the main game, but all the people involved more or less had advanced warning: Duncan, Maric and Flemeth

[ModernAcademic]

Thedas is quick to adopt an "out of sight, out of mind" approach the second an Archdemon falls. Nobody cares about the Wardens or the Dwarves and their Darkspawn problem if there is no Blight. Those two factions are slowly but surely losing a centuries-old war, nobody gives a damn and they have never and will not start to care until Orzammar finally falls and the Darkspawn spill out of the Deep Roads unhindered.

 

 

 

 

Nearly every codex entry about the Wardens, Anderfels or the First Warden himself will mention it and the World of Thedas is backing it up.

The king of Anderfels is weak, his grasp barely reaching further than the walls of his capital and the Wardens are, in all but name, judge, jury and executioner outside of Hossberg already.

Since the loss of the Griffons the post of First Warden is mainly political anyway, because the Commanders have to make decisions quickly and can't wait for command from Weisshaupt, but the current one seems to be especially deep in the scheming business. The report you get as Warden Commander of Amaranthine is basically telling you that you're on your own.

 

"The nominal leader of our order is the First Warden, but you can expect little assistance or guidance so far from the Anderfels. Even those close to Weisshaupt learn to suffer alone. The murmurs are true--the First Warden is often embroiled in the politics of the Anderfels and has little opportunity to consider worldly matters. I would like to believe it is a matter of survival, not of political self-interest.

 

Know that your mission is vital. You carry the hopes of our order. If the highest among us holds noble titles outside of the Anderfels, perhaps we will be better situated when the next Blight comes, as we all know it must.

 

--A confidential report for the Warden-Commander"

 

Thank you for bringing us the report contained in the Codex, friend. It's been sometime since I last played Awakening and I completely forgot where I had gotten the information concerning the First Warden. All I had was a vague memory of what I had read at the occasion. No wonder my lack of source raised doubts in other people. Thanks again! 

[ModernAcademic]

This helped me remember where is that report: there's an open book in Vigil's Keep located right next to the merchant Yuriah. Just click on the book and the message will appear.

[Dai Grepher]

Thedas is quick to adopt an "out of sight, out of mind" approach the second an Archdemon falls. Nobody cares about the Wardens or the Dwarves and their Darkspawn problem if there is no Blight. Those two factions are slowly but surely losing a centuries-old war, nobody gives a damn and they have never and will not start to care until Orzammar finally falls and the Darkspawn spill out of the Deep Roads unhindered.

 

 

 

 

Nearly every codex entry about the Wardens, Anderfels or the First Warden himself will mention it and the World of Thedas is backing it up.

The king of Anderfels is weak, his grasp barely reaching further than the walls of his capital and the Wardens are, in all but name, judge, jury and executioner outside of Hossberg already.

Since the loss of the Griffons the post of First Warden is mainly political anyway, because the Commanders have to make decisions quickly and can't wait for command from Weisshaupt, but the current one seems to be especially deep in the scheming business. The report you get as Warden Commander of Amaranthine is basically telling you that you're on your own.

 

"The nominal leader of our order is the First Warden, but you can expect little assistance or guidance so far from the Anderfels. Even those close to Weisshaupt learn to suffer alone. The murmurs are true--the First Warden is often embroiled in the politics of the Anderfels and has little opportunity to consider worldly matters. I would like to believe it is a matter of survival, not of political self-interest.

 

Know that your mission is vital. You carry the hopes of our order. If the highest among us holds noble titles outside of the Anderfels, perhaps we will be better situated when the next Blight comes, as we all know it must.

 

--A confidential report for the Warden-Commander"

 

It isn't definite proof that the First desires to amass political power, since this could just be a matter of survival, but I will agree that the fact this is brought up at all implies that the First is indeed a political hack.
 

Still, if the Hero can establish an honorable order of Wardens in Ferelden, and possibly be a joint-ruling monarch, then this could go a long way in saving the order from itself and political figures.

[Dai Grepher]

DAI did seem to reinforce the idea that no one was particularly grateful or supportive of the Wardens.    Even if you don't ask Leliana to put the boot in after exiling them, other countries seem to encourage their departure in the epilogue.    It is more positive if you don't make them leave but we still had people demanding we return contributions after Blackwall was revealed to be not Blackwall.    Even if he wasn't a warden we were still using the resources to fight a darkspawn Magister, so effectively doing the Warden's work.  

 

As for the example of Vigil's Keep, that was all but ignored in DAI.   There was no reference to this autonomous Warden outpost, no attempt to contact them to see if they knew what was up with the Warden's and no reference to the Silver Order that my Warden had set up.  Then in Trespasser Teagan felt justified in bad mouthing the Wardens and using Sophie Dryden as an example of how Ferelden dealt with upstarts trying to take temporal power.   This completely ignored the 5th Blight and the fact that the Warden had successfully been managing the area around Vigil's Keep on behalf of the Wardens and with the approval of the monarch.  Instead of tamely accepting his criticism, I'd have liked to have been able to point to that example and suggest that we had been doing a similar job in Crestwood, bearing in mind that no one else had bothered, so all that was lacking was the official stamp of approval.   

 

What was odd about Trespasser though was the fact that we had Varric at the beginning saying he hadn't yet heard from Hawke (if alive) and then by the end Hawke was back helping him running Kirkwall, with no indication of what happened in between apart from Varric's suggestion of Weishauppt crashing down whilst Hawke walked away from the destruction.   I don't know whether that was a hint at the truth or we are going to have to wait and see.

 

I think most of that was forced exposition. Clarel needed to manipulate Wardens into willingly following her madness. This is only possible if the Wardens feel cast out by the world they have sworn to save. Plus, there are Wardens in Ferelden who didn't hear the Calling, like the two we met in Crestwood. An Alistair who is king also gives no indication that he hears anything. It seemed to be mainly Orlais that had the Calling problem.

 

Vigil's Keep was ignored because BioWare was lazy. It doesn't mean it's suddenly removed from the canon. Teagan's statement is also forced exposition, as he forgets Alistair is a Warden, could possibly be king, or that the Hero of Ferelden is a Warden who might also be a joint-ruling monarch. But I think the gist of what Teagan was saying was that the Inquisitor was trying to misuse the Wardens as an appendage of the Inquisition to control certain territories in Ferelden. But even this is stupid, as the Inquisitor has no authority over the Wardens except to exile them at a specific point in time which had long since passed.

 

I take all epilogues with a grain of salt. Most of them are already non-canon based on the events implied by the ending scene in Haven's prison cell. Hopefully we will get a DLC or expansion featuring the events at Weisshaupt, which will include the Hero and Champion both.