21 réponses à ce sujet

[CrabbyCrackers]

deleted my player profile on my saved games before starting a new game and now for some reason i get banter like crazy good, crap i never heard before and this is like my 10th play threw. 

 

But what i wanted to say is , While playing and before that , i always feel like my pc is a bystander when it comes to personal things, you help party members with personal quest, ask them all kinds of things about themselves, but no one really cares for you that much. I would like a personal quest in the next DA, where party members help you, and react to your personal side.

   You kinds had little things in the other games, being able to say somethings about your life before the wardens, such as city elf, or dalish elf , even noble when your family was murdered and saying how you need to find your brother.

  

In dragon age 2, when your mother is murdered you get comforted by a party member, veric feels for you if sibling dies in the deep roads, and shows concern about who your in love with...  I never noticed anything like that in DA3 besides the questions josy ask but that ends in nothing, ask answer the end... So please more personal things in DA4 would make me feel more connected with my Pc.

[AnimalBoy]

I was actually wanting that too. It'd be nice for characters to react more to your romance, etc. I know they make comments out in the field but still.

[ArcadiaGrey]

Interesting, I'd love more banter.  It's so sadly lacking in DAI compared with the first two games.

 

I agree too about a personal quest, sounds like a great idea.  Although punching Solas cause he hated my anti-mage stance was pure gold. 

 

Poor Solas, I'll be nice to you next time, promise.

[Gervaise]

What they did was put your personal stuff into war table quests that no one remarked upon.   The worst one was for the Dalish.   I think that was the only personal war table mission where you could potentially end up killing your entire family (clan) through making a bad call.   Yet no one said a thing to you about it.    Which of course made it seem like nobody cared about you personally, not even your LI. 

 

At least in Trespasser mention is made about your romance partner by other people but I think they still made a big mistake with the Varric/Cassandra marriage joke because not everyone had that option and for a Solas romance it was downright cruel.     So a bit of joined up thinking wouldn't go amiss in the next game so that people who you think of as good friends don't come across as crass, unsympathetic idiots.

[thats1evildude]

In fact, they made more of an effort in DAI to ask your character how they're feeling about certain developments.

[Tidus]

My DA:I character seems more like a loner then anything. At least in DA:O Leliana told my character twice she loves him,once at camp and before heading for the AD battle. My character could stop and have party banter as well.

[Qun00]

In fact, they made more of an effort in DAI to ask your character how they're feeling about certain developments.

But again, that never is about your character personally.

[nightscrawl]

But again, that never is about your character personally.

Not true. There are three separate scenes where I can recall different people asking how you're doing on a personal level. Varric at the start of the game, "Are you holding up all right?" Cullen after you help him get through his lyrium issues, "How are you holding up?" and Dorian after Adamant, "Are you all right?"

None of those are romance related, and all of them are asking about your personal welfare. The responses you can give are personal responses -- "I'm fine," "It was terrible," "I learned so much," and so on.

 

I thought they provided a good opportunity for role-play. For my particular Inquisitor, the specific people that ask are significant. Since Dorian is my romance, he is the only one my character gives a completely honest answer to, with everyone else the response is evasive. But that happens to just be a particular bonus of having Dorian ask that of my character, and I realize that other players might not respond in the same way.

[Nimlowyn]

What they did was put your personal stuff into war table quests that no one remarked upon.   The worst one was for the Dalish.   I think that was the only personal war table mission where you could potentially end up killing your entire family (clan) through making a bad call.   Yet no one said a thing to you about it.    Which of course made it seem like nobody cared about you personally, not even your LI. 

 

At least in Trespasser mention is made about your romance partner by other people but I think they still made a big mistake with the Varric/Cassandra marriage joke because not everyone had that option and for a Solas romance it was downright cruel.     So a bit of joined up thinking wouldn't go amiss in the next game so that people who you think of as good friends don't come across as crass, unsympathetic idiots.

I agree with this. I reloaded an earlier save after I destroyed Clan Lavellan not because of the outcome, but because it was jarring how no one responded to it. Also, my Lavellan was still pining over Solas and her friends should have known this. That whole marriage thing seemed like a cruel thing for Varric to do. And Varric's not a cruel guy so...I don't really know what to make of that scene, honestly. 

[nightscrawl]

I agree with this. I reloaded an earlier save after I destroyed Clan Lavellan not because of the outcome, but because it was jarring how no one responded to it. Also, my Lavellan was still pining over Solas and her friends should have known this. That whole marriage thing seemed like a cruel thing for Varric to do. And Varric's not a cruel guy so...I don't really know what to make of that scene, honestly. 

 

I think it's really supposed to be more about Varric trolling Cassandra than anything else. I know she asks about marriage for a Dorian-mancer as well, so I assume that every LI option, regardless of whether marriage is an option in the game for them, gets a mention.

 

The Solas option does seem rather thoughtless, and I'm thinking that it just comes down to poor planning on the part of the devs. It makes no sense whatsoever that Varric would even suggest such a thing regarding Solas. Regardless of whether the Inquisitor is still emotionally devastated, Solas isn't even around at that point. It's just dumb.

 

I think that whole thing was handled badly. There are only a couple of marriage options in the game, and that's fine for those LIs. I understand that a Bull-mancer also has the opportunity to ask him about it. But being unable to bring up the issue with your LI after Cassandra mentions it is just terrible. Dorian is my LI. So naturally after having this dialogue with Cassandra and choosing, "Maybe I will get married," I run right over to Dorian to see if he has anything new to say, which he does not.

 

Do note that I am NOT suggesting that marriage have been an option for ALL LIs. I think the limited options are fine as long as they go along with that LI's character and history, as it does with Dorian. But not being able to broach the subject after it has been brought up is supremely frustrating. Perhaps the devs thought it would be safer to have it this way so the player would either not be disappointed with the lack of an option to propose, or be unduly upset if the LI is forced to turn them down. And perhaps some devs (like David Gaider with Dorian) didn't want to put their character in that position, for which I can't fault him.

 

But if that's the case then the Cassandra dialogue should not have been included for some LIs in the first place. The whole thing was just a huge mistake, as far as I'm concerned.

[Shechinah]

I think it's really supposed to be more about Varric trolling Cassandra than anything else. I know she asks about marriage for a Dorian-mancer as well, so I assume that every LI option, regardless of whether marriage is an option in the game for them, gets a mention.

 

The Solas option does seem rather thoughtless, and I'm thinking that it just comes down to poor planning on the part of the devs. It makes no sense whatsoever that Varric would even suggest such a thing regarding Solas. Regardless of whether the Inquisitor is still emotionally devastated, Solas isn't even around at that point. It's just dumb.

 

It did not seem to me like Varric was necessarily suggesting that Solas was the one who the Inquisitor were marrying.

 

Personally, I was fine with the joke with my Lavellan because while she was still in love with Solas, she had moved on to being able to joke about it even in regards to what had happened. I can understand, however, why it might have been in poor taste when it came to other romances. Considering that the Inquisitor and Cassandra as Divine Victoria can still have feelings for each other, it seems like a very cruel prank to play on the both of them
 

[Nimlowyn]

I think it's really supposed to be more about Varric trolling Cassandra than anything else. I know she asks about marriage for a Dorian-mancer as well, so I assume that every LI option, regardless of whether marriage is an option in the game for them, gets a mention.

 

The Solas option does seem rather thoughtless, and I'm thinking that it just comes down to poor planning on the part of the devs. It makes no sense whatsoever that Varric would even suggest such a thing regarding Solas. Regardless of whether the Inquisitor is still emotionally devastated, Solas isn't even around at that point. It's just dumb.

 

I think that whole thing was handled badly. There are only a couple of marriage options in the game, and that's fine for those LIs. I understand that a Bull-mancer also has the opportunity to ask him about it. But being unable to bring up the issue with your LI after Cassandra mentions it is just terrible. Dorian is my LI. So naturally after having this dialogue with Cassandra and choosing, "Maybe I will get married," I run right over to Dorian to see if he has anything new to say, which he does not.

 

Do note that I am NOT suggesting that marriage have been an option for ALL LIs. I think the limited options are fine as long as they go along with that LI's character and history, as it does with Dorian. But not being able to broach the subject after it has been brought up is supremely frustrating. Perhaps the devs thought it would be safer to have it this way so the player would either not be disappointed with the lack of an option to propose, or be unduly upset if the LI is forced to turn them down. And perhaps some devs (like David Gaider with Dorian) didn't want to put their character in that position, for which I can't fault him.

 

But if that's the case then the Cassandra dialogue should not have been included for some LIs in the first place. The whole thing was just a huge mistake, as far as I'm concerned.

Cassandra says something to the effect of, "I can't imagine who it would be". It isn't about Solas, more like she believed that Lavellan had a mystery lover and wanted to offer her support but was uncertain she should reveal her knowledge. (I wouldn't be surprised if it was the same dialogue for an Inquisitor without a romance). It was awkward and kind of sad, a reminder of what was missing in my Lavellan's life. Varric was clearly trolling Cassandra, and at this stage I can only figure that he didn't think that one through. It's not like he's infallible, after all. I'm not suggesting all scenes have to be a feel good experience, and that awkwardness or what have you detracts from narrative or role playing, it was just confusing because it seemed out of character for Varric. 

 

I haven't played Trespasser with another romance, but I imagine not being able to discuss marriage with Dorian, at least two lines, could have been jarring. I know that's a thread I'd want to follow with my LI, it seems like it sets up for it, after all. I really do love Trespasser, it blew me away and is quite the achievement, but I do agree that this scene fell a bit flat. I hope I can work it out in my headcanon the next time around.

[AnimalBoy]

I remember during a mission in the first game Alistair walked up to me and asked me if there was anything going on between Leliana and I (There wasn't) and immediately followed that up with asking me if there was anything between Morrigan and I (There was) I thought it was odd that he asked if there was anything going on between me and the girls one right after the other but it's interactions like that that i'd like to see return.

[ladyiolanthe]

Several of my companions in my playthrough did make comments about the loss of Clan Lavellan and missing Solas in Trespasser. Sera, for example, let me know that one of the Jennies near Wycome might have leads on surviving members of my clan. Dorian, Leliana and I believe Blackwall asked me about Solas. Vivienne also offered some sympathy about Solas' having gone missing two years ago, if I remember correctly.  So I didn't feel that my Inquisitor had no connections, but it would have been nice to have a little more about the loss of Clan Lavellan earlier in the game, for sure.

 

I did Jaws of Hakkon after defeating Corypheus, and I'm pretty sure I remember one or two sympathetic comments about missing Solas in that DLC, too. 

[CrabbyCrackers]

I understand from what i been reading there are some in the dlc's.. but what i mean is over the whole game. I guess its kind of hard for me to explain. I feel like i know everything about my party members but they know very little about me. 

 Perhaps the game could have a few questions in character creator .. such as, sexual preference , if you choose templar, were you mean to mages or kind, if a mage from the circle, were you know to rebel against the templars or follow orders... then in the game all that comes into play in conversation and quest, if you was a rebel mage your party members are that much harder to trust you.  Just little things that build in the game like blocks and ends up growing and building your character as a person. As it is my inquisitors past is all in my head.

[Korva]

But what i wanted to say is , While playing and before that , i always feel like my pc is a bystander when it comes to personal things, you help party members with personal quest, ask them all kinds of things about themselves, but no one really cares for you that much.

 

Yes. That is one of my oldest issues with Bioware's writing, dating all the way back to Baldur's Gate 2, but Inquisition is particularly bad about it -- maybe because of the contrast between the many, lively, varied NPC/NPC banters and the sterile, canned, entirely one-way PC/NPC dialogues is so blatant. NPCs may occasionally spout some hot air about gratitude or admiration or whatnot, and some of the scenes with them can be very touching ... but in the end it all feels hollow because they don't make any effort to get to know the PC, to keep tabs on her welfare, to be there for her in any way. As a character, as a person, the Inquisitor -- the supposed protagonist of the game -- simply does not exist. She's just there as a story vehicle and NPC enabler.

 

Not true. There are three separate scenes where I can recall different people asking how you're doing on a personal level.

 

Even these few moments aren't actually about the PC in my mind, but about the NPC, as always -- about what the NPC thinks and feels and wants. To me that sort of bait-and-switch is worse than complete radio silence because it raises and then immediately shatters a faint hope that maybe now I actually get to play a character instead of a cipher for once. It doesn't matter what you say to Dorian after Adamant. It doesn't matter what you say to Josie when she asks about the Anchor. They don't react to it, there's no follow-up to it. They merely give their opinion, and then the talk is over.

 

The only moments which felt like my character remotely existed as a person was in two early interactions with Cass and Josie, the ones in which you can say a few words about your background and actually get a brief response, and to a degree in a few of the dialogues with Mother Giselle.

[CrabbyCrackers]

Yes. That is one of my oldest issues with Bioware's writing, dating all the way back to Baldur's Gate 2, but Inquisition is particularly bad about it -- maybe because of the contrast between the many, lively, varied NPC/NPC banters and the sterile, canned, entirely one-way PC/NPC dialogues is so blatant. NPCs may occasionally spout some hot air about gratitude or admiration or whatnot, and some of the scenes with them can be very touching ... but in the end it all feels hollow because they don't make any effort to get to know the PC, to keep tabs on her welfare, to be there for her in any way. As a character, as a person, the Inquisitor -- the supposed protagonist of the game -- simply does not exist. She's just there as a story vehicle and NPC enabler.

 

 

Even these few moments aren't actually about the PC in my mind, but about the NPC, as always -- about what the NPC thinks and feels and wants. To me that sort of bait-and-switch is worse than complete radio silence because it raises and then immediately shatters a faint hope that maybe now I actually get to play a character instead of a cipher for once. It doesn't matter what you say to Dorian after Adamant. It doesn't matter what you say to Josie when she asks about the Anchor. They don't react to it, there's no follow-up to it. They merely give their opinion, and then the talk is over.

 

The only moments which felt like my character remotely existed as a person was in two early interactions with Cass and Josie, the ones in which you can say a few words about your background and actually get a brief response, and to a degree in a few of the dialogues with Mother Giselle.

  yes, you explain it better than me, thanx

[SwobyJ]

You're supposed to be more of a symbol than family to other characters. This is by design. We may not have it happen again in DA4. Different characters with different roles. This game is comparatively more political than personal. On my part, I accept that. (Obviously there is both the personal and political in all DA games, but different levels.)

[nightscrawl]

Perhaps the game could have a few questions in character creator .. such as, sexual preference , if you choose templar, were you mean to mages or kind, if a mage from the circle, were you know to rebel against the templars or follow orders... then in the game all that comes into play in conversation and quest, if you was a rebel mage your party members are that much harder to trust you.  Just little things that build in the game like blocks and ends up growing and building your character as a person. As it is my inquisitors past is all in my head.

That's not how relationships work though. When you meet someone you don't have a dossier about their past, or their views on certain things, you can only go by your interactions with them and how you see them interact with others.

You can certainly have interactions in the game that show the very things you suggest: a mage follower who might not trust a templar supporter, and so on, without having to set those flags in the CC.

 

I actually prefer to leave as much to the player as possible, and every time they offer a choice it becomes unnecessarily limiting because the devs can't account for everyone. For example, a Trevelyan is approached by Josephine asking about their parents and you are able to remark on your relationship with them. As I recall, there are about five wide-ranging choices that I think are pretty decent. However, this is for role-play ONLY, and doesn't actually affect the rest of the game as an actual choice. I do think there should be more straight role-play options like this that allow the player to craft, see, and play an unique character, and to feel like that character is their own because of these options.

The same goes for sexual preference. Bioware revealed the follower sexualities before DAI release as a courtesy to the fans because they know that the romances are an important part of the game for some players. But we don't actually have to know, and I'd argue that it makes the interaction with the follower more authentic if we do NOT know before hand. So you flirt with Cullen as a guy and he nicely lets you know he's not interested. Or you have a female crushing hard on, and flirting with Dorian only to find out he only likes men during his personal quest. That's real.

So why should the NPC, or the rest of Thedas know your own preference? I really don't think it should. It can lead to the dangerous path of, "Well, I set my preference in the CC, so why is so-and-so flirting with me?" I'm not saying that you suggested this, OP, but it IS what would happen, make no mistake. And invariably it would happen to the detriment of the homosexual or bi NPCs, as was the case with Anders.
 
 

Even these few moments aren't actually about the PC in my mind, but about the NPC, as always -- about what the NPC thinks and feels and wants.

I've seen you mention this several times. I just happen to feel differently about those particular scenes.

[nightscrawl]

You're supposed to be more of a symbol than family to other characters. This is by design. We may not have it happen again in DA4. Different characters with different roles. This game is comparatively more political than personal. On my part, I accept that. (Obviously there is both the personal and political in all DA games, but different levels.)

 
I actually incorporate this into my role-play and am quite pleased with the result. The only person my PC reveals any insecurities to at all is his LI, Dorian. My Inquisitor did not react well to Dorian referring to him as Theadas's "bulwark against evil," and he kept that to himself for quite a long while.
 
This is head-canon material, obviously. But I think it goes to show how you can take actual elements of the game and incorporate them into your role-play, and be satisfied with the result. Of course, I suppose I might be in a different position than some other players because I write fanfic, so I can incorporate these role-play elements into the writing and have them feel like a part of my character and the game without also having to see it in the game. I wrote it out so it exists for my character and is canon for him, so I suppose it seems more "real" than if it were just in my head.

[CrabbyCrackers]

 So you flirt with Cullen as a guy and he nicely lets you know he's not interested. Or you have a female crushing hard on, and flirting with Dorian only to find out he only likes men during his personal quest. That's real.

So why should the NPC, or the rest of Thedas know your own preference? I really don't think it should. It can lead to the dangerous path of, "Well, I set my preference in the CC, so why is so-and-so flirting with me?" I'm not saying that you suggested this, OP, but it IS what would happen, make no mistake. And invariably it would happen to the detriment of the homosexual or bi NPCs, as was the case with Anders.
 
 

Yes but why shouldn't a personal quest like dorian's, be a PC's quest? thats what i mean by sexuality being involved, not that all the world should know, but your best friends should.  

 

Its like being in a room with a group of people but not belonging in that group because they don't know you. over time in a game your friends shoud know you, get to know you, comment about it. even when banter comes up about you, your just more or less listening and cant really say nothing ( Note this might not be because of banter bug i only had 2 conversations i could say something in while walking around )

 

 Or as an elf why couldn't i be the one that talked to gatt about what he is doing with the qunari.  Just little things to make the pc more connected.

[nightscrawl]

Yes but why shouldn't a personal quest like dorian's, be a PC's quest? thats what i mean by sexuality being involved, not that all the world should know, but your best friends should.  
 
Its like being in a room with a group of people but not belonging in that group because they don't know you. over time in a game your friends shoud know you, get to know you, comment about it. even when banter comes up about you, your just more or less listening and cant really say nothing ( Note this might not be because of banter bug i only had 2 conversations i could say something in while walking around )
 
 Or as an elf why couldn't i be the one that talked to gatt about what he is doing with the qunari.  Just little things to make the pc more connected.

Yes, but writing a quest around the PC like that takes away role-play agency. Because everything is pre-written by the devs, it is already limiting. Sexuality is a personal, individual thing and I DO NOT want it defined by 1-3 dialogue choices written by a developer.

 

And it also depends on how you are. My Inquisitor is not a flirty type of person, except with Dorian. If he hadn't flirted with Dorian at all, he [Dorian] wouldn't have even known that he was interested in men to begin with. He might have even come across as asexual, but it's really more about privacy; that is a private aspect of his life that he doesn't discuss with people, and he is truly close with just a very few people. My Inquisitor considers those in the Inquisiton, aside from his romance, to be acquaintances or friends, and in the case of Cassandra, a very good friend. But that's all, and there is still some distance there.

 

So again, it all comes down to role-play, and each player wanting something different for their own character.

That said, you actually can state your own preference during Dorian's personal quest if you are a man, regardless of whether you embark on a relationship with him or not. There is some variation in Dorian's reaction based on whether you had previously flirted with him. But in the context of the personal quest, his father Halward makes the insulting assumption that that is the reason Dorian joined the Inquisition, after which Dorian becomes royally pissed at him for said assumption. But, in the end it is a dialogue option that the player does not have to take -- I never do because of the path it takes to get there, even though Dorian's protective reaction is wonderful.

 

DAI had the least amount of information regarding the PC's past than either of the two previous games, and that is just the way I like it. Other than the very spare information that my Inquisitor was from a noble family with ties to the Chantry, was the youngest of two or three children, and expected to eventually serve the Chantry in some way, there is hardly any personal information dictated by the game or its codex. To me, he was a completely blank canvas to ascribe any personality, backstory, romantic and sexual history, familial relationship, and so on that I wanted. I even felt that the Origins in DAO were a bit too restrictive.

 

 

Regarding the banter, I also wish that there were more interactive ones during the game. It's not part of the bug, there are just a very few select of those available.