372 réponses à ce sujet

[Master Warder Z_]

Queen Skadi is sort of like Dutch.

When in doubt, assume you're reading a troll post.

-.- The Dutch!

[spockjedi]

Nah, you don't have to worry about gay players, they are used to it with hundreds of games out there. It seems more about you, don't pretend like this is out of concern for other groups.

Game already has this though. Chose flirt line/heart sign or not, if you do you eventually end up hetero or samesex relationship and if you don't you don't have romance in the game. Since romances are fully optional and player has to initiate them I don't really see point on having separate romance toggle.

I wouldn't suggest that if I haven't seen people complaining about it alerady. Ever heard about "ninjamance?"
 

**Removed**

Are you comparing giving the player a choice about what kind of romance they'll have available to... a Crime Against Humanity?
You should have more respect to the millions of people who had their lives destroyed by the nefarious apartheid regime and stop making comparisons to demonize people who don't agree with you.

[Battlebloodmage]

I wouldn't suggest that if I haven't seen people complaining about it alerady. Ever heard about "ninjamance?"
 

Because it's a convenient way to remove the gays from the game. Who's complaining? I only ever see straight people complaining about being hit on by gay people. The only ninjamance was in ME1 and it was only with straight characters and "Liara is not a female" romance. Otherwise, there is a giant heart icon you need to click on to start a romance. Both Isabela and Ander hit on the player, but only Ander gets mentioned, you can guess why. That's not even a ninjamance as you can reject him, albeit harshly. Maybe we're playing different games here. Tell me which romance is the ninjamance where you don't have to either click on a giant heart icon or at least some very suggestive lines with clear indication you're interested in someone? 

[Shechinah]

I wouldn't suggest that if I haven't seen people complaining about it alerady. Ever heard about "ninjamance?"

 

I do not see how the issue of ninjamance would be solved by creating a sexuality toggle since ninjamance is more the lack of properly indication of a romance, marking a flirt or the result of a glitched dialogue option. It would occur regardless of whichever of the toggle options you select since ninjamance could occur with heterosexual, bisexual and homosexual romances. 

 

I do not at all see how the issue of ninjamance is connected to sexual orientation nor how a toggle would prevent the issue of ninjamance from occuring.
 

[Panda]

I wouldn't suggest that if I haven't seen people complaining about it alerady. Ever heard about "ninjamance?"
 

Are you comparing giving the player a choice about what kind of romance they'll have available to... a Crime Against Humanity?
You should have more respect to the millions of people who had their lives destroyed by the nefarious apartheid regime and stop making comparisons to demonize people who don't agree with you.

 

Ninjamance seems to be mostly problems with older games like DAO (where flirt lines weren't clearly separated) and ME1 where Liara seemed to be into your character no matter what. But so where all the Asari's, someone should make youtube video counting all the times Shepard got his/her face stroke by Asari. I don't think ninjamances were problem later on.

[Shechinah]

I think a good way to put an end on these discussions about having romances or not is giving players the following choice during character creation:
 

The player can select both options, just one, or none of them.
I think this is the most respectful solution to every kind of player.

 

How would that put an end to this specific kind of romance discussion? The opening post is about romances being meaningful in terms of quests, characters development and such.

 

A toggle would arguably do none of that, in my opinion, since it would not contribute to the character development of the romanceable character, it would not affect their personal quest and it would not increase their influence on the plot. It seems a toggle would only affect the main character and only preempt certain dialogue options from becoming avaliable.
 

[Shechinah]

Ninjamance seems to be mostly problems with older games like DAO (where flirt lines weren't clearly separated) and ME1 where Liara seemed to be into your character no matter what. But so where all the Asari's, someone should make youtube video counting all the times Shepard got his/her face stroke by Asari. I don't think ninjamances were problem later on.

 

If that occurs in Mass Effect: Andromeda then I'm hoping they'll allow me to select an option that has my character take a step back and politely tell them to politely respect my personal space.

 

I also dislike the mandatory hug with Liara since that can seem downright out-of-character with certain player characters. A hug option like with Tali is fine, a mandatory hug like with Liara is not.

[Lucca_de_Neon]

Because it's a convenient way to remove the gays from the gay. Who's complaining? I only ever see straight people complaining about being hit on by gay people. The only ninjamance was in ME1 and it was only with straight characters and "Liara is not a female" romance. Otherwise, there is a giant heart icon you need to click on to start a romance. Both Isabela and Ander hit on the player, but only Ander gets mentioned, you can guess why. That's not even a ninjamance as you can reject him, albeit harshly. Maybe we're playing different games here. Tell me which romance is the ninjamance where you don't have to either click on a giant heart icon or at least some very suggestive lines with clear indication you're interested in someone? 

Some of these guys are funny (i say guys because i haven't heard of a single girl with the same level of rejection). If they had to deal with homosexual guys staring at them, saying things to them or even attempts at touching them, they would hide under their beds and cry xd So many times i have to stand guys doing all those things to me and still, being a girl and gay, i smile and say "look, i play for the other team. Would you mind giving me some room?" and i try to be respectful even when they were not (and some of them even get offended!) xd
Guys..stop it. There's no valid excuse. Live and let live. You can call it whatever you want but is still a division so that you don't have to put up with things like me. Romances in RPGs have become a big deal. Do they need work? yes! a lot of work! but that work doesn't involve denying the existence of one entire group just so that you can be safe. (what a terrible burden would be to load a previous saved game or something, right? because, whatever it is you end up seeing cannot be unseen and bla bla bla). Really...it's a shameful and selfish attitude to have ^^ 

[spockjedi]

Because it's a convenient way to remove the gays from the gay. Who's complaining? I only ever see straight people complaining about being hit on by gay people.

What if they don't want be hit? Don't you think they deserve a choice? Do we have to force straight players to be hit by gay characters, just for the sake of diversity?

The only ninjamance was in ME1 and it was only with straight characters and "Liara is not a female" romance. Otherwise, there is a giant heart icon you need to click on to start a romance. Both Isabela and Ander hit on the player, but only Ander gets mentioned, you can guess why. That's not even a ninjamance as you can reject him, albeit harshly. Maybe we're playing different games here. Tell me which romance is the ninjamance where you don't have to either click on a giant heart icon or at least some very suggestive lines with clear indication you're interested in someone?

I think we are, I never saw the heart icon. Is this in DA? I only played ME. Don't get me wrong, I like the idea, it's a good alternative to my suggestion.
A lot of people complained about Kaidan in ME3, for example. Giving him a bottle of alcohol was an "indicative of interest" to the game mechanics.

[Lucca_de_Neon]

What if they don't want be hit? Don't you think they deserve a choice? Do we have to force straight players to be hit by gay characters, just for the sake of diversity?
 

Is what i've been getting all my life and i'm ok with it. Some guy just thought you were pretty. Is not that terrible, mate.

[ZipZap2000]

Ugh.

The Kaidan moment where you somehow gave this desperate guy the impression you liked him, with a manly gesture that has no sexual implications at all. Yet he interprets it as lets get naked on the Normandy.

It was so bad......

[spockjedi]

Is what i've been getting all my life and i'm ok with it. Some guy just thought you were pretty. Is not that terrible, mate.

What part of "they" you didn't understand?
Don't presume to know what's in my heart.

[SardaukarElite]

What if they don't want be hit? Don't you think they deserve a choice? Do we have to force straight players to be hit by gay characters, just for the sake of diversity?

 

Nobody deserves a choice over how other people act. People you aren't attracted to hitting on you shouldn't be a big deal - if the game doesn't let you graciously say 'no thanks' that's one thing but the solution isn't eliminating any possibility of being hit on. 

[spockjedi]

Nobody deserves a choice over how other people act.

This principle of course applies to real life, but I don't think it needs to be translated to the game universe. After all, the game is about respecting the player's choices, not the wishes of NPC's.

[Battlebloodmage]

What if they don't want be hit? Don't you think they deserve a choice? Do we have to force straight players to be hit by gay characters, just for the sake of diversity?
I think we are, I never saw the heart icon. Is this in DA? I only played ME. Don't get me wrong, I like the idea, it's a good alternative to my suggestion.
A lot of people complained about Kaidan in ME3, for example. Giving him a bottle of alcohol was an "indicative of interest" to the game mechanics.

Getting hit on by gay people is not a ninjaromance. Plus, this kinds of scene happen with all the relationships, not just Kaidan. . It's better to be honest, now that it is about straight guys being hit on, not about worrying about gay people feeling uncomfortable. They could simply create a romance check then it would solve all that. This is what happened in DAI where you need to initiate the relationship, something I feel like will be implemented in the next ME. There is no need for the entire toggle just to remove the gay out of the game. On a personal note, I like the companions initiate the relationship since it makes them have their own personality instead of being passive about everything. I guess this is why we can't have nice things. 

[Lucca_de_Neon]

What part of "they" you didn't understand?
Don't presume to know what's in my heart.

1- It seems that what i said remained irrefutable
2- I'll presume a great deal! you are defending that point of view too much for a simple messenger xd

[Lucca_de_Neon]

Getting hit on by gay people is not a ninjaromance. Plus, this kinds of scene happen with all the relationships, not just Kaidan. . It's better to be honest, now that it is about straight guys being hit on, not about worrying about gay people feeling uncomfortable. They could simply create a romance check then it would solve all that. This is what happened in DAI where you need to initiate the relationship, something I feel like will be implemented in the next ME. There is no need for the entire toggle just to remove the gay out of the game. On a personal note, I like the companions initiate the relationship since it makes them have their own personality instead of being passive about everything. I guess this is why we can't have nice things. 

We agree on everything. Specially that little bit about companions initiating things!

[SardaukarElite]

This principle of course applies to real life, but I don't think it needs to be translated to the game universe. After all, the game is about respecting the player's choices, not the wishes of NPC's.

 

But the player doesn't get choices over everything. As players we get limited control over a character who is given to us, and get to run them through a world created by professional artisans, a world that is supposed to react intelligently and realistically and interestingly to what we make our character do. That whole wonderful illusion only works if it isn't trying to coddle us and run away from our insecurities. 

 

I'm sure there are some aspects of the story which make sense to make player malleable, but this is such as small thing. We should be able to maturely turn people down in real life, so we shouldn't need the option to run away from it in our virtual worlds. If anything that people are so damn afraid of being hit on by people of the wrong gender is evidence that they need to practice it. 

[spockjedi]

Getting hit on by gay people is not a ninjaromance. Plus, this kinds of scene happen with all the relationships, not just Kaidan. . It's better to be honest, now that it is about straight guys being hit on, not about worrying about gay people feeling uncomfortable. They could simply create a romance check then it would solve all that. This is what happened in DAI where you need to initiate the relationship, something I feel like will be implemented in the next ME. There is no need for the entire toggle just to remove the gay out of the game. On a personal note, I like the companions initiate the relationship since it makes them have their own personality instead of being passive about everything. I guess this is why we can't have nice things.

Then we should wait until more gay people start complaining about getting hit by characters of the opposite sex until we change anything? Why? Why don't they deserve a choice too?
But I agree with you that the "initiate-the-romance-check" would solve the problem. And I hope it will be implemented in the next ME!
 

I'll presume a great deal! you are defending that point of view too much for a simple messenger xd

Thanks, then. When I want to know more about my deepest inner feelings, I'll ask you.

[Battlebloodmage]

Then we should wait until more gay people start complaining about getting hit by characters of the opposite sex until we change anything? Why? Why don't they deserve a choice too?
But I agree with you that the "initiate-the-romance-check" would solve the problem. And I hope it will be implemented in the next ME!
 

Thanks, then. When I want to know more about my deepest inner feelings, I'll ask you.

Sure, you should get back to me when the gays finally have enough of straight romance after hundreds of other games outside of Bioware games. 

[Lucca_de_Neon]

Thanks, then. When I want to know more about my deepest inner feelings, I'll ask you.

Stop kicking and crying, please. You are the one that is making a fuss because a guy flirts with you and, therefore, you are not allowed to hide behind inner feelings and sarcasm

[spockjedi]

Stop kicking and crying, please. You are the one that is making a fuss because a guy flirts with you and, therefore, you are not allowed to hide behind inner feelings and sarcasm

You're the one making a fuss here. You're the one who suggested that because I wanted to give players a choice about what they'll see in the game, then I have a problem with gays in my real life. The only to way to answer a juvenile presumption like this one is with sarcasm.
It's impossible to have any kind of honest discussion if one of the sides keep framing the opponent as a gay-hater just because they have a different opinion.

[Lucca_de_Neon]

You're the one making a fuss here. You're the one who suggested that because I wanted to give players a choice about what they'll see in the game, then I have a problem with gays in my real life. The only to way to answer a juvenile presumption like this one is with sarcasm.
It's impossible to have any kind of honest discussion if one of the sides keep framing the opponent as a gay-hater just because they have a different opinion.

your "opinion" includes adding a division and separating entire groups of people and you base it on how awkward it makes you feel when a guy says something to you! xd it's an opinion beyond ridiculous and close to fanatic that you try to disguise as concern for others, knowing fully well that you speak of yourself

Edit: i'll say it again since it summarizes so well the nature of this discussion: "Some guy just thought you were pretty. Is not that terrible, mate."

[Hammerstorm]

 

I agree with OP, they should look over how they make the romance quest.

 

 

 "Some guy just thought you were pretty. Is not that terrible, mate."

 

But but, I want to be called handsome. 

[spockjedi]

your "opinion" includes adding a division and separating entire groups of people

This a pure example of hysteria. This guy really wants to compare disabling romance dialogue in NPCs inside a VIDEO GAME to SEPARATING REAL PEOPLE, FROM THE REAL WORLD from one another.
How do I even argue with something like that?

and you base it on how awkward it makes you feel when a guy says something to you! xd it's an opinion beyond ridiculous and close to fanatic that you try to disguise as concern for others, knowing fully well that you speak of yourself

And there you go again, pretending to know my feelings in order to frame me as a gay-hater, just because you can't argue as civilized person. Tell me how many times I've complained about being hit by Kaidan or Cortez when playing as a male Shepard. You can't, because I never did so.
As I said, we can't have any kind of civilized discussion involving homosexuality when people behave like that.