75 réponses à ce sujet

[Calders]

It's hard to know if it's a good thing or a bad think when some of the senior team moves on. In my opinion Bioware's biggest problem is there central story telling which is surely written by these guys. They do create some great characters and sub plots but the main plots have been poor since ME1 and DAO. Those first two games had effective main plots, but ME2 hardly has a main plot and what is there makes little sense (you could go from ME1 to ME3 and not miss much). DA2 had a very ambitious idea for an episodal plot but it failed to make it work. ME3 started badly but most of the game was quite solid plot wise (although Cerberus shouldn't have been the main antagonists), but the ending was a car crash. DAI also had a really poor plot especially after Haven when we seemed to lose any motivation for the protagonists actions and it became one long anti-climax. So maybe some new writers can do better.

[Arcian]

Mac's antagonists have sucked, but I loved Zaeed and Garrus. I think if they find someone to write the bad guys it won't be too bad. I thought his Miranda was vastly better than ME3's too. I'm willing to give him another shot, and I'm curious to see how his writing goes without Casey Hudson's influence.

 

The Dragon Age team bounced back pretty well after all the harsh criticisms that stemmed from Dragon Age 2. I hope the Mass Effect team does too.

They abandoned the Milky Way and ignored pretty much all feedback except that one voice that said "I like the endings and don't want you to mess with them" (which, incidentally, belongs to Super MAC).

 

They haven't bounced back, they've dug themselves even deeper than they did with ME3.

[AresKeith]

They abandoned the Milky Way and ignored pretty much all feedback except that one voice that said "I like the endings and don't want you to mess with them" (which, incidentally, belongs to Super MAC).

 

They haven't bounced back, they've dug themselves even deeper than they did with ME3.

 

So you actually expected them to change the ending?

[Arcian]

So you actually expected them to change the ending?

Change them, ignore them, I expected them to do something else than building the entire f***ing franchise around them. Do you think Mass Effect: Andromeda is set in the Andromeda galaxy because it's a cool setting? F**k no, it's set in the Andromeda setting because Super MAC refuses to let BioWare change, ignore or otherwise marginalize his and Casey's magnum opus, thereby preventing the Milky Way from being used as a setting without canonizing one of the four endings, which they also refuse to do because "player choice is sacred", despite the Rachni being conspicuous in their absence in the ending after Super MAC touted them as being incredibly important.

[AlanC9]

Change them, ignore them, I expected them to do something else than building the entire f***ing franchise around them.

Changing or ignoring would have meant doing the same thing in practice -- a massive retcon. You actually expected a massive retcon? Or did you just want one?

[Arcian]

Changing or ignoring would have meant doing the same thing in practice -- a massive retcon.

A retcon would be BioWare going into the new game stating Shepard defeated the Reapers conventionally. BioWare ignoring the choices would be them going into the new game stating Shepard defeated the Reapers using the Crucible without specifying how the Crucible defeated them.

 

A retcon introduces new information that overrides old information. What I suggest is omitting old information that's irrelevant in the new game. That is not a retcon, though in your BioWare-whiteknighting dictionary it might be.

 

You actually expected a massive retcon? Or did you just want one?

I expected them to listen to fan feedback and ensure the Mass Effect saga could be continued in the Milky Way without accounting for ANY player choice, including the endings everyone hate. So no, I didn't expect a retcon, let alone a massive one. I expected the scenario I described above, where the endings simply aren't mentioned or even referenced at all beyond general elements or information present in all iterations, like for example the existence and use of the Crucible. This is how pre-Mass Effect RPGs have handled multi-game narratives before, so why the actual f**k couldn't BioWare do it now?

 

I wanted them to fire Casey and Mac and publically apologize for letting them ruin Mass Effect with their garbage writing, and then release a free DLC with new and vastly improved endings so that ME3 won't be held up as an eternal example of how to royally and irreparably f**k up a beloved sci-fi trilogy. So yes, I wanted a full-blown retcon, because that would show that BioWare cares for their fans. Instead, they slapped a bandaid on a gushing wound with the pathetically inadequate Extended Cut.

[SofaJockey]

I expected them to listen to fan feedback and ensure the Mass Effect saga could be continued in the Milky Way...

 

I wanted them to fire Casey and Mac and publically apologize ....

 

Meanwhile in the real world, the franchise continues with the next game.

Unrealistic expectations only lead to disappointment.

 

I'm sure the next game will be enjoyable.

[KaiserShep]

A retcon would be BioWare going into the new game stating Shepard defeated the Reapers conventionally. BioWare ignoring the choices would be them going into the new game stating Shepard defeated the Reapers using the Crucible without specifying how the Crucible defeated them.

 

A retcon introduces new information that overrides old information. What I suggest is omitting old information that's irrelevant in the new game. That is not a retcon, though in your BioWare-whiteknighting dictionary it might be.

 

I expected them to listen to fan feedback and ensure the Mass Effect saga could be continued in the Milky Way without accounting for ANY player choice, including the endings everyone hate. So no, I didn't expect a retcon, let alone a massive one. I expected the scenario I described above, where the endings simply aren't mentioned or even referenced at all beyond general elements or information present in all iterations, like for example the existence and use of the Crucible. This is how pre-Mass Effect RPGs have handled multi-game narratives before, so why the actual f**k couldn't BioWare do it now?

 

I wanted them to fire Casey and Mac and publically apologize for letting them ruin Mass Effect with their garbage writing, and then release a free DLC with new and vastly improved endings so that ME3 won't be held up as an eternal example of how to royally and irreparably f**k up a beloved sci-fi trilogy. So yes, I wanted a full-blown retcon, because that would show that BioWare cares for their fans. Instead, they slapped a bandaid on a gushing wound with the pathetically inadequate Extended Cut.

 

Do you have an example of a pre-Mass Effect RPG that did this sort of thing on that sort of scale particularly well? I mean, how would you present places like the Citadel, Omega, etc. set in the future where everyone just carries on like nothing ever happened without coming off like a total retcon?  I guess there's canonization of a choice, or simply doing another game set in the past, forever trapping the franchise in the reaper war timeline, but let's be honest: BioWare would get sh*t for any decision that they make in that respect. There's just no winning, even if you personally might approve of such alternatives. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Do you have an example of a pre-Mass Effect RPG that did this sort of thing on that sort of scale particularly well?

Deus Ex: Invisible War. 

The Deus Ex franchise is also doing it again with Deus Ex: Mankind Divided. 

[goofyomnivore]

They abandoned the Milky Way and ignored pretty much all feedback except that one voice that said "I like the endings and don't want you to mess with them" (which, incidentally, belongs to Super MAC).

 

They haven't bounced back, they've dug themselves even deeper than they did with ME3.

I hated the endings as much as the next person, but you can't say they've ignored the majority of user feedback based off of two vague trailers. I don't think you're ever going to get them to acknowledge the black hole of failed logic that is the last 4 or 5 hours of Mass Effect 3.

 

The way I see it is they switched galaxies for a clean slate narratively and creatively. Its a pretty crummy way to get out of the hole they dug, but whatever I'd rather just get away from the Reapers, Catalyst, and Cerberus than wade through that bs again. It may be weak storytelling loading all the 'good' from the Milky Way on the Ark such as the races, cultures, etc, and leaving the 'bad' things like the catalyst, reaper conclusion, and Cerberus behind and starting over. But if the rest of game is good I'm willing to live with that cop out.

[Lucca_de_Neon]

I hated the endings as much as the next person, but you can't say they've ignored the majority of user feedback based off of two vague trailers. I don't think you're ever going to get them to acknowledge the back hole of failed logic that is the last 4 or 5 hours of Mass Effect 3.

 

The way I see it is they switched galaxies for a clean slate narratively and creatively. Its a pretty crummy way to get out of the hole they dug, but whatever I'd rather just get away from the Reapers, Catalyst, and Cerberus than wade through that bs again. It may be weak storytelling loading all the 'good' from the Milky Way on the Ark such as the races, cultures, etc, and leaving the bad things like the catalyst, reaper conclusion, and Cerberus behind and starting over. But if the rest of game is good I'm willing to live with that cop out.

My thoughts exactly

[SarenDidNothingWrong]

Change them, ignore them, I expected them to do something else than building the entire f***ing franchise around them. Do you think Mass Effect: Andromeda is set in the Andromeda galaxy because it's a cool setting? F**k no, it's set in the Andromeda setting because Super MAC refuses to let BioWare change, ignore or otherwise marginalize his and Casey's magnum opus, thereby preventing the Milky Way from being used as a setting without canonizing one of the four endings, which they also refuse to do because "player choice is sacred", despite the Rachni being conspicuous in their absence in the ending after Super MAC touted them as being incredibly important.

 

How do you know the ending won't be totally retconned?

[Addictress]

Fantastic mate, i'm definitely more at ease. Thanks for the info.

Haha, exactly my feels.

[Addictress]

Patrick Weekes is the new lead writer of Dragon Age, David Gaider moved on to Bioware's secret IP.

*faints* The sexy Solas writer Patrick Weekes!!!! Still my heart hnng!!

...pretty sure Bioware is legit creeper out by my flood of creepy fangirl posts about Solas the past month.

I have it under control. I promise.

[Nohvarr]

Deus Ex: Invisible War. 

The Deus Ex franchise is also doing it again with Deus Ex: Mankind Divided. 

I'm not sure that counts as doing it well.

[Lord Bolton]

*faints* The sexy Solas writer Patrick Weekes!!!! Still my heart hnng!!

...pretty sure Bioware is legit creeper out by my flood of creepy fangirl posts about Solas the past month.

I have it under control. I promise.

I hope so 

[LinksOcarina]

A retcon would be BioWare going into the new game stating Shepard defeated the Reapers conventionally. BioWare ignoring the choices would be them going into the new game stating Shepard defeated the Reapers using the Crucible without specifying how the Crucible defeated them.

 

A retcon introduces new information that overrides old information. What I suggest is omitting old information that's irrelevant in the new game. That is not a retcon, though in your BioWare-whiteknighting dictionary it might be.

 

I expected them to listen to fan feedback and ensure the Mass Effect saga could be continued in the Milky Way without accounting for ANY player choice, including the endings everyone hate. So no, I didn't expect a retcon, let alone a massive one. I expected the scenario I described above, where the endings simply aren't mentioned or even referenced at all beyond general elements or information present in all iterations, like for example the existence and use of the Crucible. This is how pre-Mass Effect RPGs have handled multi-game narratives before, so why the actual f**k couldn't BioWare do it now?

 

I wanted them to fire Casey and Mac and publically apologize for letting them ruin Mass Effect with their garbage writing, and then release a free DLC with new and vastly improved endings so that ME3 won't be held up as an eternal example of how to royally and irreparably f**k up a beloved sci-fi trilogy. So yes, I wanted a full-blown retcon, because that would show that BioWare cares for their fans. Instead, they slapped a bandaid on a gushing wound with the pathetically inadequate Extended Cut.

 

Well...too bad then? We can't always get what we want.

 

Like, for example, blaming Walters all the time like he murdered your first born and deserves to be crucified for it. I would think people wouldn't want that.

 

I also never can believe the "BioWare doesn't care about it's fans" line, since almost everything they do showcases listening to fan feedback time after time (throwing out the baby with the bathwater on game features, fan-service lines and easter eggs, Citadel DLC, playing it safe with Inquisition, of course...), and like battered wives they take the abuse time after time because us nerds are fickle, angry throngs of know-it-alls who think we can do better. 

 

I think the real issue stems from that in the end; the fans inability to let go of a grudge, to look beyond the perspectives of what they see in front of them and think about whole pictures at times, to accept that some things will never work but salting the earth like a diehard grognard is not going to get you anywhere because BioWare, like any other company out there, has made decisions already without your approval; decisions that will never please everyone. And through that, we should maybe just enjoy what does work, and think about that bigger picture on the whole sometimes, the good and the bad.

 

In truth, that will never happen, but hey, one can hope people will wise up finally and just calm the **** down. 

[KaiserShep]

I doubt very much that BioWare cares about its fans any less than the other devs do.

[This is the End My Friend]

Changing or ignoring would have meant doing the same thing in practice -- a massive retcon. You actually expected a massive retcon? Or did you just want one?

 

That's what they've done to pretty much every major choice in any of there games, so how's this different? Personally I've come around on the whole Andromeda thing, though I was hoping for wormhole theory. Building an ark just seems so uninspired.  

[Mummy22kids]

TBH, I'm glad that they are moving out of the Milky Way,I'm looking for something new.  I feel that the Shepard/MW story is over, I was satisfied with the ending and I don't need the story re-opened.  If they had another Shepard story after defeating the reapers I'd be much less likely to play it because, after beating the reapers, what can Shepard do that exceeds that moment? Besides most of my Shepards sacrificed themselves in the synthesis ending, so bringing them back wouldn't work.  

[kalikilic]

Patrick Weekes is the new lead writer of Dragon Age, David Gaider moved on to Bioware's secret IP. 

ohrlynow? interesting. if this is true then i'm definitely looking forward to the next installment in DA. currently enjoying DA:I.

 

Mac's antagonists have sucked, but I loved Zaeed and Garrus. I think if they find someone to write the bad guys it won't be too bad. I thought his Miranda was vastly better than ME3's too. I'm willing to give him another shot, and I'm curious to see how his writing goes without Casey Hudson's influence.

 

The Dragon Age team bounced back pretty well after all the harsh criticisms that stemmed from Dragon Age 2. I hope the Mass Effect team does too.

yup. definitely loved ME 2 Miranda. honestly dont care how many times they shoved her bubble butt into my face. she was well written back then.

[laudable11]

Weeks and Gaider are on the new IP? The SJWs must be throwing a party. Hell, why dont we just call it 'project tumblr'

Tumblr will be delighted.

EDIT* Weeks stayed as Dragon Age's lead writer.

[Evamitchelle]

Weeks and Gaider are on the new IP? The SJWs must be throwing a party. Hell, why dont we just call it 'project tumblr'

Tumblr will be delighted.

 

Weekes is Dragon Age's new lead writer.

[AlanC9]

A retcon would be BioWare going into the new game stating Shepard defeated the Reapers conventionally. BioWare ignoring the choices would be them going into the new game stating Shepard defeated the Reapers using the Crucible without specifying how the Crucible defeated them.
 
A retcon introduces new information that overrides old information. What I suggest is omitting old information that's irrelevant in the new game. That is not a retcon, though in your BioWare-whiteknighting dictionary it might be.

I have no idea what you're proposing here. The various means by which the Crucible can defeat the Reapers have consequences. Exactly how did you expect Bio to not tell us what those consequences were while still setting the game in the Milky Way?


 

[Addictress]

Nvm