119 réponses à ce sujet

[Seraphim24]

So, it's no secret to anyone who has played a few DA games or read some of the background that DA is human focused and centric, all the characters of great importance tend to be human, and so on.

 

It's equally known that the story of Elves in DA is one of kind of destruction and mutilation, as well as hatred that continues up to and including the parts of the main DA series.

 

I don't know, it just makes me feel weird now thinking about DA games, thinking that I'm helping the likes of the Arls or people of Denerim and all these  people who are fundamentally it seems guilty of terrible crimes of violence and hatred fueled mistreatment.

 

I said are/were because the reality on the ground sort of changes and isn't always the same, but fundamentally, why does DA as a whole embrace such an anti-elf concept, and why is it expected that the players generally support the notion of Humans first, or that this is an acceptable status quo?

 

From what I've seen, there is literally no justification for the treatment of the Elves in DA, it's a case of pure envy, hatred, and all kinds of other things that is a pretty heavy blight on the lore, to be honest.

 

It seems to encourage the notion that you should hate people just because of their history or origin, as well as the notion that so long as you can keep someone down, you are justified in doing so, messages I don't think DA (or any franchise) should be promoting.

 

I also found it very strange that the Elves were supposedly inspired by ghettos in Medieval times, Elves, like all Elves, were clearly on some level inspired by Tolkiens' Elves in LOTR.

 

 

 

 

 

[Seraphim24]

I should note that, Elf hate (or, er, hatred in general) is a common thing, certainly not limited to DA.

 

People may also point to the prominence of Solas in DA, but it's still the Inquisitor's power, the Inquisitor's decisions, and really just Inquisitor/Inquisitor...

 

I also edited in to add...

 

I guess it's not really just why are/were Elves treated so terribly, but why would people in the past in the present and future continue to kind of forsake the value and potency of magic or the products of that existence? It seems like a useful thing to improve the world... but most people (Elves, Dwarves, Humans, whoever) don't care or view an attempt to restore and discover those magical powers as bad.

 

I guess my problem isn't one of treatment per se but just the irrationality of the people of Thedas. If what was called "Elven Civilization" had powers of immortality and magic that could transform things, shouldn't everyone have been excited to have that.

 

And why did Tevinter want to destroy these powerful things anyway? Couldn't they have made use of those things? If they are a civilization bent on power, which they apparently are overall.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I believe one of the intentions that Gaider and Laidlaw and the rest of the writers had for Dragon Age was that it was similar enough to standard fantasy tropes to be familiar, but also deconstructing them just enough to have it's own unique spin on things. 

[Medhia_Nox]

It's interesting you suggest "envy" as one of your reasons for elf hate.

 

I would suggest that because the elf mindset expects envy from its lessers... is the reason for at least some of the elf hate.

 

Elves - even Tolkien elves - are a commentary on hubris.  Even Tolkien's elves are colossal failures (moreso in the books - the movies take some liberties that go far in "redeeming" them beyond their measure from the books). 

 

NOTE:  I like Tolkiens' elves, Warhammer Fantasy High Elves and 40Ks Eldar... even though all of them fell because of hubris. 

 

D&D elves, Dalish,  elves in most other fantasy... hate as much as I hate any totally fictitious race of beings.

 

DA elves I liked because that hubris WAS stripped from them... but, as the series continued it came back with a vengeance.

[sandalisthemaker]

Remember that the elves brought about their own destruction in the first place: the Evanuris and Solas.  This set the stage for their current condition. 

 

Had they not destroyed themselves, they would have in all likelihood wiped out the fledgling Tevinters.  And as far as the Tevinter humans taking advantage of the weakened elven empire and enslaving them, there are lots of examples of that IRL.  Why do any groups of people war with one another and conquer eachother?  For land, resources, etc.  

 

That the elves are the downtrodden ones in this series is just a change of pace since they tend to be super special, magical, mystical, perfect beings of perfectness who view humans as children in other fantasy settings.  They actually used to be something like that in DA until they did themselves in.   

[ComedicSociopathy]

The reason humans treat elves so badly is because it's socially acceptable in Thedas.

 

Tell people that it's fine to beat, harass, torture and rape members of a certain group or race of people with little to no consequences for doing it and you'll quickly see many people take that opportunity to be a sadistic monster, or at very least a bully. I mean, it's not as if any of the humans we've seen in this franchise use Red Crossing or the Second Exalted March as an excuse as to why they felt they needed to treat an innocent elf badly. 

 

They do because they can and because no one will say anything if they do. 

[Nimlowyn]

As an elf player, I don't think Dragon Age is anti-elf at all. That they are oppressed is part of the setting and the larger story Dragon Age is telling; that it is depicted does not mean it is promoted or approved of. Elves as second class citizens and slaves is, in my view, an interesting spin on the modern concept of elves first established by Tolkien. That they were instrumental in their own demise gives them even more agency. With the end of Inquisition, we are just beginning to see how elven history will play in the wider scheme of things, and the socio-political ramifications for modern Thedas is something I'd be really interested to see. 

 

Alienages were inspired by Medieval Jewish ghettos, yes. This was part of Bioware's own spin on the elves. 

[TheKomandorShepard]

It seems to encourage the notion that you should hate people just because of their history or origin, as well as the notion that so long as you can keep someone down, you are justified in doing so, messages I don't think DA (or any franchise) should be promoting.

 

Why not, it is exactly how real world works.

 

Elves are treated badly because they are weak and can't do anything, message is don't be weak or you will get crushed by others and don't start fight with stronger than you if you don't want beating what is fair and realistic message. 

[congokong]

The reason for it is similar to why women have been more oppressed than men historically in the real world.

 

Firstly, men, and humans in general in DA, are naturally more aggressive. Thus, to avoid oppression the elves would have to become more aggressive themselves.

 

Second, elves are the physically weakest race, and thanks to Solas their elfy perks have been nerfed as well. The qunari, for example, don't get pushed around for one large reason being that they're so much larger than other races. Elves are the opposite; shorter and more emaciated.

[Ghost Gal]

I don't know, it just makes me feel weird now thinking about DA games, thinking that I'm helping the likes of the Arls or people of Denerim and all these  people who are fundamentally it seems guilty of terrible crimes of violence and hatred fueled mistreatment.

 

I said are/were because the reality on the ground sort of changes and isn't always the same, but fundamentally, why does DA as a whole embrace such an anti-elf concept, and why is it expected that the players generally support the notion of Humans first, or that this is an acceptable status quo?

 

I've been thinking something similar. Honestly, it's making me question why I like this series so much, and why bother being emotionally invested in anything.

 

The first game introduced a narrative of oppression and oppressors. Nobles oppress peasants, humans oppress elves, Templars oppress mages, casted dwarves oppress casteless dwarves, etc. I played the City Elf Origin thinking I'd eventually be able to make life better for elves, and mages. Three games later, the "mage revolution" has come full circle (we give power back to the Templars in DAO, Anders blows up the Chantry in DA2, the Inquisitor picks a side in DAI, but no matter what the Circle is restored and the College is created in Trespasser), and life hasn't gotten better for elves. What little progress an Elven Warden could have made in DAO backslid by DAI, and what little good the Inquisitor could have done for Orlesian elves is rendered moot by Trespasser.

 

It really makes me wonder, why bother caring what happens to these people?

 

Why bother being emotionally invested in any of these groups, knowing nothing I do is going to make a difference and/or will be undone by the next game?

 

It's pretty clear the devs have no intention of giving elves their fair share, since they go to such lengths to excuse all human flaws and crimes with "well, not all are like this" but then crack down on elf flaws and crimes with "See? They're all like that!" or "There, that's proof they bring their fate onto themselves."

 

What a load of crap.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Why bother being emotionally invested in any of these groups, knowing nothing I do is going to make a difference and/or will be undone by the next game?

 

It's pretty clear the devs have no intention of giving elves their fair share, since they go to such lengths to excuse all human flaws and crimes with "well, not all are like this" but then crack down on elf flaws and crimes with "See? They're all like that!" or "There, that's proof they bring their fate onto themselves."

 

What a load of crap.

 

Welcome to dragon age where none of your choices matter longer than 1 game , not only those concerning elves.

 

From what i know they don't excuse human crimes in any way or rather should i say they don't excuse humans actions anymore than actions of elves. Once again reason why elves lives suck is because elves are weak and can't do anything about it not beacause elves are evil and humans are good , and even Solas can't change it without blowing up world. 

 

If i were you i wouldn't count on making things nice and dandy for elves as it is one of most important source of conflicts in daverse.

[In Exile]

From what I've seen, there is literally no justification for the treatment of the Elves in DA, it's a case of pure envy, hatred, and all kinds of other things that is a pretty heavy blight on the lore, to be honest.

 

There's a clear justification: racism (and misfortune). In the South, the elves were concentrated in the ultimately isolationist and xenophobic Dales. The elves have the misfortune of looking different and being culturally different, which is something the rest of southern Thedas is not (apart from when Rivan converted to the Qun - and we saw the genocide that followed there). 

 

The Dales lost a war with Orlais, and the end result was a boot straight to the bottom of the social hierarchy. Then we had exactly the same dynamic we have IRL with different minority groups. The justification is racism. 

 

Recall that Tevinter is universal in its historical mistreatment of elves, and doesn't have alienages. And the qunari don't treat elves any worse than they treat anyone (assuming the elves abandon their culture). 

 

It's pretty clear the devs have no intention of giving elves their fair share, since they go to such lengths to excuse all human flaws and crimes with "well, not all are like this" but then crack down on elf flaws and crimes with "See? They're all like that!" or "There, that's proof they bring their fate onto themselves."

 

What a load of crap.

 

Huh? There's no crackdown on "elven" flaws, any more than "humans" are excused. The games are universal in portraying the CEs as victims of the racist humans and qunari. It's the Dalish that get smacked down for their flaws on occasion, but DA:I pretty much vindicated most of their core beliefs. What it didn't vindicate is their IRL morally objectionable views, like their actual racist theology. 

[Nixou]

Three games later, the "mage revolution" has come full circle (we give power back to the Templars in DAO, Anders blows up the Chantry in DA2, the Inquisitor picks a side in DAI, but no matter what the Circle is restored and the College is created in Trespasser), and life hasn't gotten better for elves. What little progress an Elven Warden could have made in DAO backslid by DAI, and what little good the Inquisitor could have done for Orlesian elves is rendered moot by Trespasser.

 

 

A recurring theme of the series, already hinted at during Origins and openly displayed with the Hawke Tragedy is how powerful History's Inertia is, that merely being a formidable warrior doesn't suffice to put an end to centuries' old prejudice and hatred, because you simply can't bully people into becoming decent.

[Tidus]

Look how fast Howe purged the Alienage without caring for what happen.. Two CE rescued their women but,kill the Elves anyway.Loghain sold elves into slavery to finance his civil war.

 

People bringing up what the Elves did centuries is making  weak  excuses for allowing the mistreatment of the Elves and to justify their own personal  racism  toward the Elves..

 

So,yeah, raping,beating and killing Elves is a sport since nobody cares.

[Gervaise]

Actually I am hopeful that in some way we will be able to help the elves in the future in a lasting way.   

 

Back in DAO none of the boons you earn as Warden seem to have a lasting effect.   A mage Warden can ask for freedom for the Circle but it comes to nothing.    A Dalish Warden gets an area given over to them (not entirely generous since it is down near Ostagar and therefore Blight ridden but it is something) but by the time you meet Alistair in DA2 it has apparently gone wrong.    With the city elf boon even in the epilogue to DAO it seems to have come to naught.

 

In DA2 we have Anders banging on about mage freedom but no one seems to be doing anything particular about making life better for the elves.   Averline doesn't even bother investigating properly an accusation of rape against one of her guards on an elf girl, until the elves take the law into their own hands.   Upshot of this is that the elves join the Qun, which still has ramifications down the line in Trespasser.

 

Now in DAI no matter what you do, the mages finally get their freedom, even though the mage rebellion sold out to Tevinter.   Regardless of any decision by the end of Trespasser there is a Circle for those who wish to remain loyal to the Chantry and a College of Enchanters for those who do not. 

 

Yet despite their best efforts my elf Inquisitors really achieved very little on behalf of their people because events seem stacked against them and then Solas ensured that any residual good will was negated.    Whatever might have been achieved through the choice of ruler in Orlais was effectively undone, since if you put Briala on the throne it had already been stated it only worked because of the influence of the elven Inquisitor and the Inquisition, so with power stripped away her days would be numbered, whilst Masked Empire had made it clear that Celene would backtrack on any concessions if she felt her position threatened by anti-elf sentiment.

 

What was noticeable though was even during the game, little respect seemed accorded efforts made by the Dalish to improve relations.    When the clan made a peace offering over the information about Red Crossing, the reaction of the advisors was insulting to my Dalish Inquisitor.   It was either a rather resentful, "if it means that much to you we'll do it" from Cullen, or stressing how much trouble it was going to cause her to get the noble in charge to agree from Josephine, or Leliana actually suggesting lying to the town about the nature of the gift so they would accept it.      A similar thing happened in JoH when Leliana again seemed to advocate a cover up and appeasement of Ameridan's Dalish clan to keep them quiet.     One reason I prefer Cassandra as Divine is that at least she says the truth should be known.  Divine Leliana putting back the Canticle of Shartan was for me too little, too late.

 

The elves have not been entirely responsible for their situation, particularly those who have always been the underclass even under the Evanuris, and there have been elven heroes who have played an important positive role in history: Andraste would have died on the Valarian Fields but for Shartan; Orlais would have been overrun by barbarian Hordes and a dragon god but for Ameridan and it was the leadership of Garahel that brought so many factions together under him to end the 4th Blight.    Only Orlais really suffered at the hands of the Dalish and the other nations have experienced Orlesian expansionism down the years, so it is hard to understand why they should have such a prejudice against elves, even with the Divine's approval.  Mind you it is noticeable that the Dalish have a semi-permanent settlement up in Rivain but of course Rivain has never been wholly committed to the  Chantry.   I would imagine there are no alienages up their either.

 

Mind you, the appalling treatment of elves is actually contrary to the moral teaching of the Chant of Light, but then who in Thedas pays any attention to that?

 

So whilst  I have no objection to the original concept of the downtrodden elves because it was an interesting variant on the normal elf scenario, particularly with the city elves, I would very much like the opportunity of improving their lot at some point in the future and it actually having a lasting effect.     At present it seems if they want to improve their lot in life their choices are supporting either the Qun or Solas, neither of which are particularly appealing to me and thus my elven PCs, and either of which will likely end up with us killing large numbers of them.

 

There does seem to be an elf prejudice in players that is not very pleasant since I have even been insulted on these boards for playing an elf.

[Patchwork]

For the majority of human history in Thedas elves were slaves and in that couple of hundred years when they weren't they dared to get uppity, they didn't help out during the Blight and then they invaded Orlais. 

 

And the humans weren't going to take that kind of thing from their former slaves so it was right back to the bottom of the food chain with them. 

 

Humans treat elves the way they do because they can and an elven god determined to destroy the world probably means a high risk of lynching for the average elf.   

[Gervaise]

I forgot to mention the Night Elves.  They were city elves who helped Maric and Loghain during their rebellion against Orlais and again were important in ensuring their survival.   How were they repaid for their efforts?   Loghain thought it acceptable to sell the elves in Denerim into slavery to fund his war effort.   Then he has the cheek to say that conditions are so bad in the alienage they will probably better off in Tevinter.   Who claims to have been running the country on behalf of Cailen?  His precious daughter Anora.   So if conditions are bad in the alienage then it is down to his pal, Maric, and his daughter for not improving things. 

 

Still, as we know from Trespasser, it turns out the nobles in Ferelden are an ungrateful bunch, not willing to lift a finger to help the common folk themselves, and then wanting to get rid of the only organisation that did.   So stabbing the city elves in the back after their assistance against Orlais is just par for the course.

[Tidus]

Gervaise,I agree with your assessment.. My CE warden does everything he can to end the blight only to return to Denerim to find the Alienage was purged and on his second return finds his/her family and friends is being sold in slavery. After that he/she turns toward the bad and kills Howe,the slavers and finally Loghain. After the Landsmeet he/she rejects every offer Alistair asks of him/her and wants only to end the blight. He/she decides Morrigan's DR is worth it since dying for nothing means nothing and wouldn't change a thing..My female warden cons Alistair into doing the DR.

 

During the victory whoop de do at the castle my warden departs with Leliana back to the Alienage to get drunk with Shianni and all three departs the following morning to travel the world-that part should be in the game.

 

 

I also play a Elf.

[Qun00]

Conquered people are often made slaves. Their defeat after the Exalted March could result in nothing else.

[Nixou]

Back in DAO none of the boons you earn as Warden seem to have a lasting effect.

 

 

A sequel was made, which means pruning the story branches.

[berelinde]

IRL, groups tend to get recognition and acceptance when the "majority" learns to care about what happens to them. For that to happen, the "majority" has to view them in a sympathetic light. Complaining about mistreatment isn't going to help, and it may actually hurt. You might be able to get someone to do what you want in the short term by sending them on a guilt trip, but it causes resentment, and that's anathema to mutual respect and understanding.

 

This has been playing out in Orlais quite recently. City elves are just now starting to have their rights acknowledged and they're beginning to gain privileges because Celene cared (and maybe still cares, depending) about Briala. Whether they remain together or not, Celene is now more aware of the challenges and hardships Briala's people face, and she was/is trying to remedy that. She isn't doing it because city elves stormed the palace or because they're picketing outside the university. She's doing it because she cares about an individual. And that's what has to happen. The privileged - especially the most prominent among them - have to respect and care about city elves as individuals. Of course, everyone can't hop in bed with an empress for the cause, but anything that lets people see them as individuals instead of an anonymous "group" will help.

 

City elves could draw positive attention to themselves by being seen outside alienages doing things to help other city residents. Lia's acceptance in the Kirkwall City Guard is a great first step. The problem here is that city elves are prevented from doing a lot of things that would gain them positive recognition as individuals. They're prevented from joining the police or the chantry. Buuut, depending on who's Divine, the latter may change. If enough elves do join the Chantry and if they do good works for the people, it will help.

 

Alienages are not helping and may actually be harming their cause. Out of sight, out of mind. Outsiders have no reason to go there for any positive reason. It might be possible to attract people in for more peaceful reasons - poetry readings, a tea shop, art displays - but it would take some planning. If the organizers could gain the patronage of a prosperous, well known sponsor, it would help.

 

The Dalish are trickier. They have made it clear that they want nothing to do with outsiders. "If I don't get close, we'll always be strangers." I'm guessing that refraining from threatening everyone who gets within bowshot might be a good first step.

 

I'm not pulling all of this out of thin air. It's happening in cities all over the place, and it's a good way to revitalize a neighborhood. A good way that doesn't involve bulldozing all of it and putting up expensive condos, which would be bad.

[duckley]

Hate, intolerance, racism are a part of life, here in our world, and in the fantasy world of Thedas. It is an unfortunate part of the "human" condition. Honor, love, justice are also part of the human condition, The juxtaposition between the two is what creates an interesting world indeed.

[vertigomez]

The absolute most you can do to improve the lot of casteless dwarves is to have Bhelen recruit them for darkspawn fodder, but you don't see people ragequitting the series over that.

People may also point to the prominence of Solas in DA, but it's still the Inquisitor's power, the Inquisitor's decisions, and really just Inquisitor/Inquisitor.

But... the Inquisitor can be an elf..?

Honestly, the biggest issue here - why we can't really change things - is that DA has its own unique spin on races, classes, cultures, etc. and if we change those things, we fundamentally change the setting. Suddenly we're in the Forgotten Realms where elves aren't oppressed, mages are casting Charm Person indiscriminately, and dwarves are always noble and proud and Scottish.

[In Exile]

Actually I am hopeful that in some way we will be able to help the elves in the future in a lasting way.   

 

Back in DAO none of the boons you earn as Warden seem to have a lasting effect.   A mage Warden can ask for freedom for the Circle but it comes to nothing.    A Dalish Warden gets an area given over to them (not entirely generous since it is down near Ostagar and therefore Blight ridden but it is something) but by the time you meet Alistair in DA2 it has apparently gone wrong.    With the city elf boon even in the epilogue to DAO it seems to have come to naught.

 

In DA2 we have Anders banging on about mage freedom but no one seems to be doing anything particular about making life better for the elves.   Averline doesn't even bother investigating properly an accusation of rape against one of her guards on an elf girl, until the elves take the law into their own hands.   Upshot of this is that the elves join the Qun, which still has ramifications down the line in Trespasser.

 

Now in DAI no matter what you do, the mages finally get their freedom, even though the mage rebellion sold out to Tevinter.   Regardless of any decision by the end of Trespasser there is a Circle for those who wish to remain loyal to the Chantry and a College of Enchanters for those who do not. 

 

Yet despite their best efforts my elf Inquisitors really achieved very little on behalf of their people because events seem stacked against them and then Solas ensured that any residual good will was negated.    Whatever might have been achieved through the choice of ruler in Orlais was effectively undone, since if you put Briala on the throne it had already been stated it only worked because of the influence of the elven Inquisitor and the Inquisition, so with power stripped away her days would be numbered, whilst Masked Empire had made it clear that Celene would backtrack on any concessions if she felt her position threatened by anti-elf sentiment.

 

What was noticeable though was even during the game, little respect seemed accorded efforts made by the Dalish to improve relations.    When the clan made a peace offering over the information about Red Crossing, the reaction of the advisors was insulting to my Dalish Inquisitor.   It was either a rather resentful, "if it means that much to you we'll do it" from Cullen, or stressing how much trouble it was going to cause her to get the noble in charge to agree from Josephine, or Leliana actually suggesting lying to the town about the nature of the gift so they would accept it.      A similar thing happened in JoH when Leliana again seemed to advocate a cover up and appeasement of Ameridan's Dalish clan to keep them quiet.     One reason I prefer Cassandra as Divine is that at least she says the truth should be known.  Divine Leliana putting back the Canticle of Shartan was for me too little, too late.

 

The elves have not been entirely responsible for their situation, particularly those who have always been the underclass even under the Evanuris, and there have been elven heroes who have played an important positive role in history: Andraste would have died on the Valarian Fields but for Shartan; Orlais would have been overrun by barbarian Hordes and a dragon god but for Ameridan and it was the leadership of Garahel that brought so many factions together under him to end the 4th Blight.    Only Orlais really suffered at the hands of the Dalish and the other nations have experienced Orlesian expansionism down the years, so it is hard to understand why they should have such a prejudice against elves, even with the Divine's approval.  Mind you it is noticeable that the Dalish have a semi-permanent settlement up in Rivain but of course Rivain has never been wholly committed to the  Chantry.   I would imagine there are no alienages up their either.

 

Mind you, the appalling treatment of elves is actually contrary to the moral teaching of the Chant of Light, but then who in Thedas pays any attention to that?

 

So whilst  I have no objection to the original concept of the downtrodden elves because it was an interesting variant on the normal elf scenario, particularly with the city elves, I would very much like the opportunity of improving their lot at some point in the future and it actually having a lasting effect.     At present it seems if they want to improve their lot in life their choices are supporting either the Qun or Solas, neither of which are particularly appealing to me and thus my elven PCs, and either of which will likely end up with us killing large numbers of them.

 

There does seem to be an elf prejudice in players that is not very pleasant since I have even been insulted on these boards for playing an elf.

 

The answer is pretty simple as to why you can't actually change things for the elves, and that's the because the plight of elves wasn't the focus of a game. It's why you can't actually change the plight of mages in DA:O really, either (albeit the epilogue slider is a bit nicer for mages than elves, which says something about racism in Thedas). 

 

It's not hard to understand why elves are mistreated: there was a historical cultural divide that was fed by both the elves and humans. After the retreat of Tevinter in the south, the elves created a culturally distinct country that also happened to be isolationist. That build up walls between people. You also have racial essentialists among the elves in a way you don't have among humans but you do, for example, have in IRL racists. 

 

All of this leads to an obvious division between humans/elves, which makes it an obvious target for the particular kind of racism-infused exploitation you see with the poor. 

 

The poor in Thedas, after all, don't have it much better. We hear for example about what the Chevaliers do. We see what happens to Fereldan refugees in Kirkwall - it's awful for a full on decade; it never gets better. But with elves, there's the extra layer of racism. 

 

This we see with the very wealthy CE merchant we meet in DA2, who is still mistreated despite wealth (and unlike an upstart Hawke). 

[sandalisthemaker]

The absolute most you can do to improve the lot of casteless dwarves is to have Bhelen recruit them for darkspawn fodder, but you don't see people ragequitting the series over that.


But... the Inquisitor can be an elf..?

Honestly, the biggest issue here - why we can't really change things - is that DA has its own unique spin on races, classes, cultures, etc. and if we change those things, we fundamentally change the setting. Suddenly we're in the Forgotten Realms where elves aren't oppressed, mages are casting Charm Person indiscriminately, and dwarves are always noble and proud and Scottish.

 

Ugh, the Dwarves suffer from lack of love on so many levels.  I still love them, though.

 

Yeah, elf oppression is one of the more unique things about this series.  It's what makes DA interesting, along with the way magic is feared.  While my views on the elves may seem a bit callous, deep down, I would like to see things improve for city elves.   I just want it to be done in a meaningful way that doesn't feel rushed or deus ex machina-y  like how the mage/templar "war" was ended in DAI, or the Divine Leliana thing.