119 réponses à ce sujet

[Reznore57]

Ugh, the Dwarves suffer from lack of love on so many levels.  I still love them, though.

 

Yeah, elf oppression is one of the more unique things about this series.  It's what makes DA interesting, along with the way magic is feared.  While my views on the elves may seem a bit callous, deep down, I would like to see things improve for city elves.   I just want it to be done in a meaningful way that doesn't feel rushed or deus ex machina-y  the way the mage/templar "war" was ended in DAI, or the Divine Leliana thing. 

 

Well if the elves could rebuild the Eluvian network , this would have serious potential.

They'd have an advantage like the dwarves with lyrium , they don't get sick in there.

They could move goods around rapidly , of course it would probably raise tension with humans already in business in logistics/transport but oh well.

[sandalisthemaker]

Well if the elves could rebuild the Eluvian network , this would have serious potential.

They'd have an advantage like the dwarves with lyrium , they don't get sick in there.

They could move goods around rapidly , of course it would probably raise tension with humans already in business in logistics/transport but oh well.

 

Yeah, this had potential so long as Briala controlled the network, but they threw that out and had Solas take over.  And he doesn't have the modern elves' interests in mind anyway.  

[vertigomez]

Well if the elves could rebuild the Eluvian network , this would have serious potential.
They'd have an advantage like the dwarves with lyrium , they don't get sick in there.
They could move goods around rapidly , of course it would probably raise tension with humans already in business in logistics/transport but oh well.

Aaaaand that's where the problem is. The elves get a boost, the humans get defensive, the elves get haughty, the humans lay the smackdown, the elves get angry and bitter and resentful, the humans wonder why the elves are so grouchy all the time, the elves throw their hands up at human ignorance, etc. etc... it's a vicious cycle and it's not as easy as just giving the elves more power and hoping for the best.

[congokong]

Look how fast Howe purged the Alienage without caring for what happen.. Two CE rescued their women but,kill the Elves anyway.Loghain sold elves into slavery to finance his civil war.

 

People bringing up what the Elves did centuries is making  weak  excuses for allowing the mistreatment of the Elves and to justify their own personal  racism  toward the Elves..

 

So,yeah, raping,beating and killing Elves is a sport since nobody cares.

To reinforce this, the way to earn the most points in the Landsmeet ironically is not to even mention the elves being sold into slavery in the alienage. People there cared more about Arl Eamon being poisoned and Howe torturing nobles.

[Lady Artifice]

Aaaaand that's where the problem is. The elves get a boost, the humans get defensive, the elves get haughty, the humans lay the smackdown, the elves get angry and bitter and resentful, the humans wonder why the elves are so grouchy all the time, the elves throw their hands up at human ignorance, etc. etc... it's a vicious cycle and it's not as easy as just giving the elves more power and hoping for the best.

 

Exactly. It's all intended to be a story of complex prejudice, where neither race is depicted as wholly innocent.

 

The Elves are the underdogs, the side that's currently marginalized by Thedasian society, but it would be absurdly simplisitc if the Devs decided to portray every one of them as heroic or victimized. There are plenty of prominent portrayals of Elves in the story, and a wide range regarding how much sympathy those portrayals are designed to illicit.

[Ghost Gal]

A recurring theme of the series, already hinted at during Origins and openly displayed with the Hawke Tragedy is how powerful History's Inertia is, that merely being a formidable warrior doesn't suffice to put an end to centuries' old prejudice and hatred, because you simply can't bully people into becoming decent.

 

Well, I know that NOW. I didn't know that's where the writers were headed when I first played DAO.

 

But, since you and the writers are so good at pointing out how the player character CAN'T make lasting changes, why don't you actually be helpful and point out how we CAN? Oh wait, you can't, because the writers have no intention of changing things for the better in Thedas. Every game, they like to constantly point out how elves and mages and whoever are degraded and oppressed. Then, if they're being generous, they might let players TRY to change things for the better, but they have no intention of following through.

 

Which, AGAIN, makes me bother: why bother caring? If I'm not allowed to actually help them, then I just have to sit there helplessly watching them being herded into alienages and Circles and getting purged and annulled and having their rights and dignity stripped away. I can either just sit there and feel helpless and frustrated, or just stop caring because it's easier than having my helpless frustration rubbed in my face. (I feel that way ALL THE TIME in real life; I don't play an escapist fantasy game to be made to feel that way again.)

 

So, OH WISE ONE, if being a "formidable warrior" (joke's on you, I never played a warrior; all rogues and mages) is not enough to make lasting changes, WHAT IS?

[ComedicSociopathy]

Well, I know that NOW. I didn't know that's where the writers were headed when I first played DAO.

 

But, since you and the writers are so good at pointing out how the player character CAN'T make lasting changes, why don't you actually be helpful and point out how we CAN? Oh wait, you can't, because the writers have no intention of changing things for the better in Thedas. Every game, they like to constantly point out how elves and mages and whoever are degraded and oppressed. Then, if they're being generous, they might let players TRY to change things for the better, but they have no intention of following through.

 

Which, AGAIN, makes me bother: why bother caring? If I'm not allowed to actually help them, then I just have to sit there helplessly watching them being herded into alienages and Circles and getting purged and annulled and having their rights and dignity stripped away. I can either just sit there and feel helpless and frustrated, or just stop caring because it's easier than having my helpless frustration rubbed in my face. (I feel that way ALL THE TIME in real life; I don't play an escapist fantasy game to be made to feel that way again.)

 

So, OH WISE ONE, if being a "formidable warrior" (joke's on you, I never played a warrior; all rogues and mages) is not enough to make lasting changes, WHAT IS?

 

You can be patient and optimistic and willing to wait for an another opportunity to create real change. Besides, while Solas and his tomfoolery may be detrimental to Briala's efforts, the fact remains that if you picked her as ruler of Orlais she's been made marquise of the Dales and has taken down alienage walls throughout Orlais. By the end of Trespasser those alienages have not been said to be rebuilt on account of Solas, so until we learn otherwise the the elves of Orlais have greater freedom because of YOUR noble actions. 

 

So, yeah, you can't pretend that everything still sucks forever and that elves will always be doomed without the slightest chances of betterment. You've already seen it Inquisition. 

 

Furthermore, you learn that the Dalish religion is a disgusting lie and the vallaslin are marks of slavery and oppression. That is great! Why? Because as Solas so eloquently put it knowledge is the greatest gift of all and I'm sure that City Elves and especially the Dalish will appreciate learning the truth. 

 

So don't be so glum, chum! Cheer up! Some good things have happened in Thedas for the elves and once Solas is dealt with there's no telling what awesome things can happen next for them in DA 4!

 

Got to stay positive! 

[Reznore57]

Aaaaand that's where the problem is. The elves get a boost, the humans get defensive, the elves get haughty, the humans lay the smackdown, the elves get angry and bitter and resentful, the humans wonder why the elves are so grouchy all the time, the elves throw their hands up at human ignorance, etc. etc... it's a vicious cycle and it's not as easy as just giving the elves more power and hoping for the best.

 

That would raise tension even between humans , some people would loose their jobs and money and no one like that ever.

Things is the elves are the more suited to work the network no matter what  so they would end up in there , problem is keeping the network under elven control.

Everyone wants the goddam thing because it's so practical , Briala wanted it , Celene and Gaspard wanted it and of course Solas wanted it.

Even Dorian now thinks it would be great if he could build his own network.

 

In a perfect world (I know lol) the Dalish would grab the things , and get more pragmatic with their old elven knowledge.They would still fill their role of keeper of the lost lore , meaning they would defend eluvians from grabby hands and employ city elves to work in there and share profits.

A few varterrals helping defends those artifacts would also do wonders.Then they would open the market to all humans countries.

Hell they could even team up with dwarves to move lyrium around and ask to help them with diplomacy and being ruthless entrepreneur.

[sandalisthemaker]

Well, I know that NOW. I didn't know that's where the writers were headed when I first played DAO.

 

But, since you and the writers are so good at pointing out how the player character CAN'T make lasting changes, why don't you actually be helpful and point out how we CAN? Oh wait, you can't, because the writers have no intention of changing things for the better in Thedas. Every game, they like to constantly point out how elves and mages and whoever are degraded and oppressed. Then, if they're being generous, they might let players TRY to change things for the better, but they have no intention of following through.

 

Which, AGAIN, makes me bother: why bother caring? If I'm not allowed to actually help them, then I just have to sit there helplessly watching them being herded into alienages and Circles and getting purged and annulled and having their rights and dignity stripped away. I can either just sit there and feel helpless and frustrated, or just stop caring because it's easier than having my helpless frustration rubbed in my face. (I feel that way ALL THE TIME in real life; I don't play an escapist fantasy game to be made to feel that way again.)

 

So, OH WISE ONE, if being a "formidable warrior" (joke's on you, I never played a warrior; all rogues and mages) is not enough to make lasting changes, WHAT IS?

 

Without conflict, there is no interesting story.  If they resolve everything, then the series ends. 

[Illegitimus]

courage the notion that you should hate people just because of their history or origin, as well as the notion that so long as you can keep someone down, you are justified in doing so, messages I don't think DA (or any franchise) should be promoting.

 

<snort>  Don't be silly.  What's a fantasy adventure without evils to fight against?

[Illegitimus]

Actually I am hopeful that in some way we will be able to help the elves in the future in a lasting way.   

 

Back in DAO none of the boons you earn as Warden seem to have a lasting effect.   A mage Warden can ask for freedom for the Circle but it comes to nothing.    A Dalish Warden gets an area given over to them (not entirely generous since it is down near Ostagar and therefore Blight ridden but it is something) but by the time you meet Alistair in DA2 it has apparently gone wrong.    With the city elf boon even in the epilogue to DAO it seems to have come to naught.

 

 

Each subsequent game is only one possible future.  I prefer to take the epilogs at face value and not assume the situation in the next game is not a one true future but just the one the game makers chose to follow

[Patchwork]

That would raise tension even between humans , some people would loose their jobs and money and no one like that ever.

Things is the elves are the more suited to work the network no matter what  so they would end up in there , problem is keeping the network under elven control.

Everyone wants the goddam thing because it's so practical , Briala wanted it , Celene and Gaspard wanted it and of course Solas wanted it.

Even Dorian now thinks it would be great if he could build his own network.

 

In a perfect world (I know lol) the Dalish would grab the things , and get more pragmatic with their old elven knowledge.They would still fill their role of keeper of the lost lore , meaning they would defend eluvians from grabby hands and employ city elves to work in there and share profits.

A few varterrals helping defends those artifacts would also do wonders.Then they would open the market to all humans countries.

Hell they could even team up with dwarves to move lyrium around and ask to help them with diplomacy and being ruthless entrepreneur.

 

I vaguely remember discussing this before but here I go again, teaming up with the Dwarven Merchant Guild (and dwarfs rather than humans in general) is the best option for modern elves in possession of the eluvian network. 

 

The dwarves have the money, the connections and the muscle to make sure that humans behave themselves. Being couriers for the Guild isn't ideal but there's a higher chance of success than if they try to go it alone.

 

I'm pretty sure Tresspasser doesn't back me up with this bit, which could be down to game mechanics rather than lore but who knows, however in The Masked Empire the humans in the group were really struggling in the eluvian network and I can only imagine it being worse for dwarves who are even less connected to the Fade. If so then the elves could be treated more as partners rather than subordinates to the Guild if someone cut-throat like Briala does the negotiation. 

[Gervaise]

Slightly off topic but I did raise it above.   One thing I find hard to understand is how the Orlesian Chantry version of Andrastrianism was the one which everyone else adopted.   Wouldn't Ferelden have had their own version since that is where it all began?    What about the Freemarches which were ruled by one of Maferath's sons?   Why did Tevinter feel it was necessary to fall in line at first even if they did change their minds later?    Why wasn't Hessarian and his successors sending out missionaries for the Maker during the period between Tevinter adopting the Maker/Andraste as their religious focus and Drakon getting in on the act?    And since Orlais was the only country affected by the Dalish attack and the only nation which supplied forces for an Exalted March, why did the other nations feel obliged to hate the elves as a result?  It is odd but Josephine kept banging on about how the Chantry was a unifying force but the various nations have been warring with each other down the years despite their common religion and it would seem the only unifying thing they do have in common is their denigration of the elves.

 

One of the oddest things in DAI, considering it was meant to be heresy to even speak about Shartan and in Masked Empire it was stated that all images showing him were either destroyed or altered to make him look human, was walking into the Chantry in Redcliffe and seeing the most important stained glass window at the head of the isle depicting an elf, which WoT2 confirmed was definitely Shartan.    That was really weird because it suggested that in Redcliffe, Shartan was considered the most important figure in their religion and I really don't think the designers intended to suggest that, because according to all previous lore on the subject he shouldn't have been depicted at all.

[congokong]

Well, I know that NOW. I didn't know that's where the writers were headed when I first played DAO.

 

But, since you and the writers are so good at pointing out how the player character CAN'T make lasting changes, why don't you actually be helpful and point out how we CAN? Oh wait, you can't, because the writers have no intention of changing things for the better in Thedas. Every game, they like to constantly point out how elves and mages and whoever are degraded and oppressed. Then, if they're being generous, they might let players TRY to change things for the better, but they have no intention of following through.

 

Which, AGAIN, makes me bother: why bother caring? If I'm not allowed to actually help them, then I just have to sit there helplessly watching them being herded into alienages and Circles and getting purged and annulled and having their rights and dignity stripped away. I can either just sit there and feel helpless and frustrated, or just stop caring because it's easier than having my helpless frustration rubbed in my face. (I feel that way ALL THE TIME in real life; I don't play an escapist fantasy game to be made to feel that way again.)

 

So, OH WISE ONE, if being a "formidable warrior" (joke's on you, I never played a warrior; all rogues and mages) is not enough to make lasting changes, WHAT IS?

If a hobby is bothering you like this then ...maybe you should find another? Just a thought.

 

What you're expecting is unrealistic; both practically and lore-wise. Ex: An elven Warden and/or Inquisitor being enough to completely change people's outlook on elves. You can head-canon, supported by a few lines here and there, that some sympathy is earned for elves, mages, etc. based on that. Ex: The blacksmith in DA:I being less opposed to mages squatting in Redcliffe when a mage stopped the blight. Just don't expect Bioware to make huge changes to cater to past game decisions. It would be a monstrous undertaking. I agree that they could do a better job than they have though. Bioware could at least try to emulate Mass Effect's respect of continuity more.

[dgcatanisiri]

See, the way I see it is that the idea with the elves in Dragon Age Origins, when the major things like the distinction of Dalish and city elves and the cause of the fall of Arlathan being their own pride and hubris instead of the official story of Tevinter destroying them, when they mapped all this out, was to subvert traditional elven narratives in fantasy. In fantasy settings, we usually see elves as these proud people, how even with that pride, they are also at least grudgingly respected by those around them for the knowledge that they have, because they're such an integral part of the landscape, that they've seen and done so much over their many, many years.

 

The problem with that, though, is that in response to Dragon Age 2, which really focused on deconstruction of fantasy tropes, they responded by playing them much straighter in Inquisition, adhering to them, rather than subverting them. Which made Inquisition a game that was about how proud and arrogant the elves are while they're being portrayed as the underclass. Where in other fantasy settings, we accept a great degree of racism and badmouthing of elves, that's because there, elves are members of these great, ancient civilizations that have knowledge and information that the main characters need and have to ask for. In the Dragon Age setting, though, they have a patchwork of history, and anything that the humans in the settings want, they have or can easily take.

 

Inquisition basically was taking fantasy tropes as they have commonly been applying while the previous games have been about subverting them, and there's a serious clash in portrayals as a result - The elves of the Dragon Age setting have ALREADY been humbled and brought low. And while it's been thousands of years since then, they still are no where near where they were - humans rule the lands, and they're forced to live either in squalor or as nomads. They are now the underclass. When they display pride now, it's not an act of arrogance to those they see as lesser, it's an act of defiance and a demand to be considered equal. That's why there are people are upset about the things in Inquisition, because it comes across as kicking them while they're down, rather than being them reaping what they've sown.

[Gervaise]

Actually there is a disparity between how elven contribution is acknowledged from one game to the next and the contribution of mages.   In DA2 I distinctly remember Anders pointing out how if the Warden was a mage that a mage had stopped the Blight, or if the Warden was not a mage, then mages helped stop the Blight (referring I presume to Wynne, Morrigan and the Circle).      Since Hawke is human, no one thought to mention about how a Warden elf stopped the Blight in connection with the mistreatment of elves, or the Dalish contributed to the war effort.      There has been a precedent set in giving the mages a better outlook in southern Thedas post DAI/Trespasser, so there is no reason why they couldn't make the outcome better for the elves in the future without it ruining the setting.    You just need to have a committed hero with a conscience who can persuade people to their point of view: it doesn't even have to be done with violence, although generally that does seem to be what it takes in Thedas.  

 

Since we have a keep that records everything nice and neatly now,  I hope that if you had an elven Warden, an elven Inquisitor and asked for the truth to be made known about Ameridan that it is at least acknowledged at some point in the future.   I felt really bad for poor Ameridan when you have to tell him that Drakon's son destroyed the Dales.      I wouldn't mind knowing what did happen to Briala post Trespasser if you made Gaspard her puppet, although I'm pretty sure I know the answer.  

[myahele]

In regards to City Elves, it's probably due to systematic discrimination against Elves.

 

Even if they manage to do great things, their accomplishments will be hidden away. Either a human takes credit or history will be write that Elf as a human (like Ameridan)

 

We see similar thing in real life. Many Latin America nations have had Black founding fathers, yet they're depicted as White and that was a few centuries ago. Granted, I'm no historian just saw a pbs documentary about it.

 

Other than Circles or Assassin Guild, City Elves never are in positions of power/ authority. Always servitude. 

[Gervaise]

Well Garahel was a city elf and all of Thedas apparently turned out to honour him at his funeral after defeating the arch demon.   Luckily that is something that couldn't be erased from history.   Then they all went back to treating elves as before.    It is noticeable that the Grey Wardens used to do rather well recruiting among the city elves, probably because the elves knew they would be treated as equals, even if the downside was a reduced life expectancy.   Mind you, I dare say life expectancy isn't much better in the alienages.

[Qun00]

Which, AGAIN, makes me bother: why bother caring? If I'm not allowed to actually help them, then I just have to sit there helplessly watching them being herded into alienages and Circles and getting purged and annulled and having their rights and dignity stripped away. I can either just sit there and feel helpless and frustrated, or just stop caring because it's easier than having my helpless frustration rubbed in my face. (I feel that way ALL THE TIME in real life; I don't play an escapist fantasy game to be made to feel that way again.)

Oh? How is your life even remotely close to a casteless dwarf or a circle mage's?

You know nothing of real oppression.

[nightscrawl]

Slightly off topic but I did raise it above.   One thing I find hard to understand is how the Orlesian Chantry version of Andrastrianism was the one which everyone else adopted.   Wouldn't Ferelden have had their own version since that is where it all began?    What about the Freemarches which were ruled by one of Maferath's sons?   Why did Tevinter feel it was necessary to fall in line at first even if they did change their minds later?    Why wasn't Hessarian and his successors sending out missionaries for the Maker during the period between Tevinter adopting the Maker/Andraste as their religious focus and Drakon getting in on the act?    And since Orlais was the only country affected by the Dalish attack and the only nation which supplied forces for an Exalted March, why did the other nations feel obliged to hate the elves as a result?  It is odd but Josephine kept banging on about how the Chantry was a unifying force but the various nations have been warring with each other down the years despite their common religion and it would seem the only unifying thing they do have in common is their denigration of the elves.
 
One of the oddest things in DAI, considering it was meant to be heresy to even speak about Shartan and in Masked Empire it was stated that all images showing him were either destroyed or altered to make him look human, was walking into the Chantry in Redcliffe and seeing the most important stained glass window at the head of the isle depicting an elf, which WoT2 confirmed was definitely Shartan.    That was really weird because it suggested that in Redcliffe, Shartan was considered the most important figure in their religion and I really don't think the designers intended to suggest that, because according to all previous lore on the subject he shouldn't have been depicted at all.

 
Andraste is from Ferelden, but the religious institution of the Chantry did not originate there. Just like Jesus was from Galilee but Catholicism is based in Rome.
 
Kordillus Drakon (you know, Inquisitor Ameridan's bff) founded the modern Chantry. Before him, the cult of the Maker had no real leadership or organization.

Drakon was a fervent believer in the Maker and often claimed that the Maker had personally charged him with spreading the Chant of Light. He was instrumental in turning the cult of the Maker (which had no central leadership at the time) into the Chantry. Because of his actions, he was declared "Anointed" by the Chantry and is revered as much as Andraste by many of its members. Drakon was also a brilliant general, leading the newly founded empire to rapid expansion.

To me, the "had no real leadership," is the key thing. Sure you had all of these groups believing the the Maker, but it took the original Inquisition and Drakon spreading the Chant of Light "by force" to get everyone to worship Him in the singular way.
 
Now, how that relates to Tevinter and your questions regarding them, I have no idea. I also find it odd.

[ShadowLordXII]

Without conflict, there is no interesting story.  If they resolve everything, then the series ends. 

 

Missing the point.

 

Conflict also requires an attachment and investment or there's no reason to care about the conflict.

 

If nothing is meaningfully changing for the better despite your best efforts, then what's the point of trying?

[Nimlowyn]

OP, you mentioned the message of Dragon Age and your concern that it is lauding oppression. 

 

People will continue to debate Dragon Age's message, and I think that is great. I do want to point out a single sentence by Art Director Matthew Goldman, taken from the introduction of the The Art of Dragon Age: Inquisition:

 

"Dragon Age is at its heart a cautionary tale about the weakness of people". 

 

Take that as you will. 

[vertigomez]

If nothing is meaningfully changing for the better despite your best efforts, then what's the point of trying?

Depends how meaningful you need the change to be. I found meaning helping Zerlinda and her son, comforting Athras when his wife died horribly and painfully as a werewolf, taking off Vaughan's head for hurting Shianni, making sure Merrill and Fenris and Sera had some sort of safe haven and support system, freeing Zevran from the Crows, saving the lives of mages three games in a row, giving Briala more political clout through Celene or Gaspard, protecting the casteless from Harrowmont's... everything, etc.

You don't have to enact big, sweeping change to make a difference in someone's life.

[Ghost Gal]

You can be patient and optimistic and willing to wait for an another opportunity to create real change. 

 

I have been patient and optimistic. It's been three ****** games and nothing has gotten better. The few times it seems like things are getting marginally better, they're back to where they started within a few years.

 

Besides, while Solas and his tomfoolery may be detrimental to Briala's efforts, the fact remains that if you picked her as ruler of Orlais she's been made marquise of the Dales and has taken down alienage walls throughout Orlais. 

By the end of Trespasser those alienages have not been said to be rebuilt on account of Solas, so until we learn otherwise the the elves of Orlais have greater freedom because of YOUR noble actions. 

 

Until humans take it back the way they took back the Dales from the elves, then took back the better treatment they promised the Denerim Alienage for a City Elf Bann, or they took back the Hinterlands they promised to a Dalish Warden.

 

Also, what happened for an Inquisitor who sided with mages and elected someone besides Vivienne as Divine? Didn't mages also get to enjoy "greater freedom"? How long did that last? Two years, until Vivienne restored the Circles.

 

Like I said, no meaningful, lasting change.

 

Don't bother getting your hopes up, because it's not going to last.

 

Without conflict, there is no interesting story.  If they resolve everything, then the series ends. 

 

I'm not saying all conflict should be magically resolved and everything should be all hunky-dory, but by the same token, when they constantly rub our faces in how much life sucks for everyone but non-magic humans then give us a chance to try to help them, I'd like things to actually get better and actually stay better for longer than just a few years at most.

 

It's never new conflicts with new challenges for these games (like "mages are no longer locked in towers; now we need to figure out how to integrate them into non-magic society" or "elves have increased legal rights, and humans don't like this; we have to figure out how to get these two to coexist"), it's the same old conflict with the same old song and dance because the writers keep finding new ways to completely undo any progress the player character makes for a group and just restore the previous game's status quo.

 

It's the exact same conflict game after game after game ("Templars lock mages in Circles" "humans herd elves into alienages or out of human settlements", etc), and after a while you get tired of taking the exact same stance in the exact same conflict the fourth game in a row, since you already know nothing you do is going to make a meaningful impact, and any new development will be undone by the next game, so why bother caring?

 

If a hobby is bothering you like this then ...maybe you should find another? Just a thought.

 

That's what I'm seriously considering. Learn to read.

 

Oh? How is your life even remotely close to a casteless dwarf or a circle mage's?

You know nothing of real oppression.

 

You have no idea what my real life has been like.

 

Don't go making assumptions.

 

Depends how meaningful you need the change to be. I found meaning helping Zerlinda and her son, comforting Athras when his wife died horribly and painfully as a werewolf, taking off Vaughan's head for hurting Shianni, making sure Merrill and Fenris and Sera had some sort of safe haven and support system, freeing Zevran from the Crows, saving the lives of mages three games in a row, giving Briala more political clout through Celene or Gaspard, protecting the casteless from Harrowmont's... everything, etc.

You don't have to enact big, sweeping change to make a difference in someone's life.

 

And then the second you take out these individual oppressors, new ones will just fill in to take their place.

 

It's like stomping on an anthill; you might take out a few individual ants, but there's a whole system colony underneath with a queen ant breeding a hundred new ones to replace the old ones. The system of Thedas' socioeconomic hierarchy breeds this level of injustice, so just taking out one or two here or there doesn't make a meaningful, lasting change.

[ComedicSociopathy]

I have been patient and optimistic. It's been three ****** games and nothing has gotten better. The few times it seems like things are getting marginally better, they're back to where they started within a few years.

 

 

 

By the end of Trespasser those alienages have not been said to be rebuilt on account of Solas, so until we learn otherwise the the elves of Orlais have greater freedom because of YOUR noble actions. 

 

Until humans take it back the way they took back the Dales from the elves, then took back the better treatment they promised the Denerim Alienage for a City Elf Bann, or they took back the Hinterlands they promised to a Dalish Warden.

 

Actually they never crack down on Denerim's alienage if the Warden is Bann. There's a riot, but the city elves there still have access to their own militia and the ability to trade with other alienages across Thedas. Since there's been no mention of anything going wrong in that alienage in Inquisition we can assume that things are still going fine. There's also the Lavellan elves that  have a seat in Wycome's council and possibly an alliance with Kirkwall and the support of the Red Jennies. 

 

Anyways, have you played DA 4? I'm guessing no so you can't just assume that things will revert back to how it was before until the next game tells you that those alienages have been restored. 

 

 

Also, what happened for an Inquisitor who sided with mages and elected someone besides Vivienne as Divine? Didn't mages also get to enjoy "greater freedom"? How long did that last? Two years, until Vivienne restored the Circles.

 

Like I said, no meaningful, lasting change.

 

Don't bother getting your hopes up, because it's not going to last.

 

Yes, Vivienne restores the Circles, but regardless of her efforts an organization of legally free mages ends up existing in Southern Thedas where once there was no such. That is meaningful change no matter how you slice it. So yes, many mages did get and still have greater freedom.