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[paramitch]

Did Dorian have a slight crush on Solas?

I would. And it would give me such adorable feels if he does.

Especially when travelling and Dorian tries smoothing things. "I....just wanted to find common ground, that's all." And then Solas is aloof and curtly replies.

 

I think it's an interesting idea. I would certainly say that Dorian wants Solas's approval. And Solas does mellow with him a bit in the conversation after that (I always find it rather sweet that Solas tells him, "Hush," when he expresses guilt about Tevinter). 

 

If I quint a bit I can see where the Cullen/Dorian shippers are coming from but Dorian and Solas just seems like mage nerds being mage nerds with a dose of Tevinter guilt. 

 

I love this description of Solas and Dorian because their conversations about magic technique are pretty nerdy in the best way.

 

His tone in this banter says it all, and captures it in a way that reading it really can't. It's pretty unfortunate that Solas rebuffs him. This is actually one of my favorite Dorian banters because you can see that he is trying. He knows how people look at him as a Tevinter mage and yet wants to make friends despite that.

 

I do think Dorian's such a nice person at heart, and it's a bummer when Solas sort of shuts him down there. I do think they become friendlier after that banter (the one where Solas tells him "Hush," that I mentioned above, to me, shows some affection from Solas, if exasperated). They ultimately seem to connect happily on the whole nerd-magic-technique angle. (I also love that Dorian is knowlegeable enough that he actually wonders aloud about the possible origins of the orb, making Solas pretty uncomfortable <and it's even better in retrospect>.)

 

I actually think Dorian looks up to Solas a little, or at least respects him enough to wish for his approval. Some of the later banters take on a very slight mentoring quality.

 

This, exactly. You put it perfectly. 

 

It's interesting that Solas will really thaw with certain characters and yet with others, he never loses his cool reserve. He gets exasperated with Sera and Bull, but you can also see a real affection and caring from him for them as well (if we save the Chargers and Bull goes Tal-Vashoth). He cares deeply for Cole, and shows increasing friendship and appreciation for Cassandra and Varric too. He is kind to Blackwall even after the revelations about him (first judging him harshly then apologizing).

 

But Solas will remain fairly chilly to a Qun-loyal Bull, to Vivienne, and (slightly) to Dorian.

[Qun00]

Dorian does crush... Solas' self-worth by pointing out his questionable fashion sense.

[fhs33721]

SOMEONE SAID "HI" TO SOMEONE ELSE

CLEARLY THEY WANT TO BONE

Don't you know that saying Hi to someone is a form of foreplay that will lead to sexual intercourse with a certainty of 57% ? At least according to fangirls and fanboys.

[NKnight7]

I don't think so no, but hey fan art can make any ship possible.

[Addictress]

I think it's an interesting idea. I would certainly say that Dorian wants Solas's approval. And Solas does mellow with him a bit in the conversation after that (I always find it rather sweet that Solas tells him, "Hush," when he expresses guilt about Tevinter).


I love this description of Solas and Dorian because their conversations about magic technique are pretty nerdy in the best way.


I do think Dorian's such a nice person at heart, and it's a bummer when Solas sort of shuts him down there. I do think they become friendlier after that banter (the one where Solas tells him "Hush," that I mentioned above, to me, shows some affection from Solas, if exasperated). They ultimately seem to connect happily on the whole nerd-magic-technique angle. (I also love that Dorian is knowlegeable enough that he actually wonders aloud about the possible origins of the orb, making Solas pretty uncomfortable <and it's even better in retrospect>.)


This, exactly. You put it perfectly.

It's interesting that Solas will really thaw with certain characters and yet with others, he never loses his cool reserve. He gets exasperated with Sera and Bull, but you can also see a real affection and caring from him for them as well (if we save the Chargers and Bull goes Tal-Vashoth). He cares deeply for Cole, and shows increasing friendship and appreciation for Cassandra and Varric too. He is kind to Blackwall even after the revelations about him (first judging him harshly then apologizing).

But Solas will remain fairly chilly to a Qun-loyal Bull, to Vivienne, and (slightly) to Dorian.

I like how Solas is indeed particularly encouraging to / vested in Thom Rainier considering he finds Thom's arc of hiding a dark secret and covering up an identity familiar.

[midnight tea]

I like how Solas is indeed particularly encouraging to / vested in Thom Rainier considering he finds Thom's arc of hiding a dark secret and covering up an identity familiar.

 

Which is really sad if you think about it. He may try and tell himself that they're not-people (if Inky screws their relationship up), but he still wants to feel that connection and familiarity with someone - so much that he takes Blackwall's feeling of guilt and hiding dark secrets and traumatic experiences from war as something comforting, since through it he feels connected to someone.

 

... Jesus Christ, Solas. Just how lonely are you, you poor sap?

 

And how much a friendship with Inquisitor (or Cassandra; let's face it, they'e always on good terms, no matter of playthrough) - a person he must feel genuine connection to, romanced or not - must really mean to you?

[Gervaise]

Which is why I find the revelation at the end of Trespasser so hard to take.   I could understand him waking from sleep, being appalled at what he found and deciding the reverse what he had done then, because he didn't have a personal connection with anyone in the modern world.    However, having got to connect with them, respect them and possibly even fall in love with one of them, instead of saying: "I was going to let the world burn but now I must find another way", he just says, "You deserve better" and "I will never forget you" but nevertheless I am going ahead with the plan regardless.    If you ask why it is necessary, he says that is a good question but I'm not giving any further information in case you figure things out, but good luck with trying to prove me wrong because I'll appreciate the effort.

 

This is why I look upon Solas as a genuine split personality, whatever he may maintain: Solas my friend who cares about all people and the Dread Wolf who cares only about the ancient world of the elves.

 

I think whatever respect Dorian had for Solas in the main game pretty much went to zero by the end of Trespasser as well.

[nightscrawl]

I think whatever respect Dorian had for Solas in the main game pretty much went to zero by the end of Trespasser as well.

Then there is the whole Inquisitor hand thing... which, yeah I know he saves the Inquisitor's life, but still. Then again, Solas is responsible for the entire circumstance in the first place. So, no Solas, no orb, no Corypheus, no Inquisitor, no boyfriend, and no boyfriend with a missing hand. Kind of a mixed bag of emotions with that one.

I can't remember from the actual DLC. What causes it to start going haywire in the first place? Is that something Solas can manipulate at all?

[Gervaise]

I'm not sure when it happens exactly.   I thought it was when you first enter the Crossroads but there is a point in the first session of the Council when the Inquisitor looks as though something is paining them, so may be it is then when they first notice it.   Solas does say it would have killed them eventually regardless because ultimately he is the only one who could have had it and lived, so even without the events  of Trespasser it would have happened.   As he says, drawing them to him allowed him to save them.

 

As for Dorian's respect for Solas, I know the Inquisitor says he wouldn't change a thing and that is true, otherwise they would not have met, but I think it is more the level of deception that is the final straw for Dorian plus the fact that Solas actually gave the orb to Corypheus, which is pretty hard to accept.   I based this off the fact that when my female Lavellan says: "We must save Solas," Dorian (along with practically everyone else but Cole) disapproves.   However, he has no problem with you saying I have to save Solas because he is the only person who can fix my hand.

[paramitch]

I like how Solas is indeed particularly encouraging to / vested in Thom Rainier considering he finds Thom's arc of hiding a dark secret and covering up an identity familiar.

 

I never quite warmed to Blackwall in my first playthrough, so I missed a lot of great conversations there. In my Solasmance, I took Blackwall out more and began to see how much Solas really talks to him. This for instance was another key moment:

 

Solas: I will remember this. When it is over.

Blackwall: This? This war? The Inquisition?

Solas: The people. How you fought against the tide. It is... courageous.

 

Which is really sad if you think about it. He may try and tell himself that they're not-people (if Inky screws their relationship up), but he still wants to feel that connection and familiarity with someone - so much that he takes Blackwall's feeling of guilt and hiding dark secrets and traumatic experiences from war as something comforting, since through it he feels connected to someone.

 

... Jesus Christ, Solas. Just how lonely are you, you poor sap?

 

And how much a friendship with Inquisitor (or Cassandra; let's face it, they'e always on good terms, no matter of playthrough) - a person he must feel genuine connection to, romanced or not - must really mean to you?

It's interesting that you mention loneliness, since this has always been Solas's defining characteristic to me. Even in my first totally clueless playthrough with a Bullmancer, I kept going to talk to Solas simply because he seemed so lonely. I mean, heartbreakingly so. The nuance he put into every quiet "goodbye" kind of got to me. 

 

So one thing about replaying with a Solasmancer -- we do get to see a few more shades of Solas there (more mischievous, sarcastic and lighter sides). It's part of the reason I think a Solas romance is essential to playthrough even once -- it's the only way to get a really complex picture of who Solas really is (and what he chooses to show).

 

Which is why I find the revelation at the end of Trespasser so hard to take.   I could understand him waking from sleep, being appalled at what he found and deciding the reverse what he had done then, because he didn't have a personal connection with anyone in the modern world.    However, having got to connect with them, respect them and possibly even fall in love with one of them, instead of saying: "I was going to let the world burn but now I must find another way", he just says, "You deserve better" and "I will never forget you" but nevertheless I am going ahead with the plan regardless.    If you ask why it is necessary, he says that is a good question but I'm not giving any further information in case you figure things out, but good luck with trying to prove me wrong because I'll appreciate the effort.

 

This is why I look upon Solas as a genuine split personality, whatever he may maintain: Solas my friend who cares about all people and the Dread Wolf who cares only about the ancient world of the elves.

 

I think whatever respect Dorian had for Solas in the main game pretty much went to zero by the end of Trespasser as well.

 

I think the split personality idea is interesting -- I definitely agree that there is the Solas we know (and I 100% believe that person was pretty genuine), and then the Dread Wolf we don't quite know (and only got glimpses of). And the Dread Wolf started out as a good -- even heroic -- person! Saving and rescuing enslaved elves, removing the marks of slavery, giving them refuge and purpose. But that side of him is also the ruthless revolutionary.

 

As in this convo with Dorian:

 

Dorian: Solas, for what it's worth, I'm sorry. The elven city of Arlathan sounds like a magical place, and for my ancestors to have destroyed it...

Solas: Dorian... hush. Empires rise and fall. Arlathan was no more "innocent" than your own Tevinter in its time. Your nostalgia for the ancient elves, however romanticized, is pointless. If you wish to make amends for past transgressions, free the slaves of all races who live in Tevinter today.

Dorian: I... don't know that I can do that.

Solas: Then how sorry are you?

 

 

I can't remember from the actual DLC. What causes it to start going haywire in the first place? Is that something Solas can manipulate at all?

 

Solas first stabilized the Inquisitor's hand and kept it from killing them after that first big confrontation in the intro (that leads to Quizzie waking up in Haven). We later learn Solas sat with them all night, etc. It's evidently stable the rest of the game (although we get those additional powers as DAI moves forward, so that could be a sign of subtle destabilization).

 

But after Solas departs at the end of DAI, Sera's diary in "Trespasser" implies that 'the hand' has been getting progressively worse. Sera's diary entry on it is something like, "Don't say anything about the hand. It's bad. It's very bad. And it's getting worse."

 

So it appears that in "Trespasser" that Quizzie's hand has been increasingly unstable and worrying her friends, even before the reunions at the Winter Palace.

[Milana]

Why would he?? I dont understand why he would crush on Bull though either, but developers ship it, so its canon...urgh

[paramitch]

Why would he?? I dont understand why he would crush on Bull though either, but developers ship it, so its canon...urgh

 

Oh, I definitely get why Dorian would crush on Bull. From the first banters, they are both at odds yet completely fascinated with each other as the rival empires, as the people they should be fighting. And yet immediately, Bull notes how pretty Dorian is, and Dorian conversely immediately starts needling Bull about posturing or sweating or standing too close, etc. They start out bristling at each other and yet there's a sexual undercurrent. It is very very apparent that the two are attracted, whether or not they end up liking each other.

 

I played a Bullmancer my first playthrough (currently on a Cullenmance after Solasmance last time), and actually really enjoy that they DO end up liking each other. And enjoy the forbidden aspect (that Bull savvily notes) -- that they are at odds, opposed. But Bull is fine with it (because Bull is utterly confident about himself, his sexuality, and his flexible alignments until pushed during 'Demands of the Qun'), while Dorian is self-hating and conflicted. So I love how Bull is just like, "I'm the forbidden. If you ever want to explore that, my door is open." While Dorian is terrified and worried and scared, and yet as we learn, he does in fact go to Bull and find companionship. To me it's all very believable as at least one potential romantic timeline in DAI as we play.

[midnight tea]

Oh, I definitely get why Dorian would crush on Bull. From the first banters, they are both at odds yet completely fascinated with each other as the rival empires, as the people they should be fighting. And yet immediately, Bull notes how pretty Dorian is, and Dorian conversely immediately starts needling Bull about posturing or sweating or standing too close, etc. They start out bristling at each other and yet there's a sexual undercurrent. It is very very apparent that the two are attracted, whether or not they end up liking each other.

 

I played a Bullmancer my first playthrough (currently on a Cullenmance after Solasmance last time), and actually really enjoy that they DO end up liking each other. And enjoy the forbidden aspect (that Bull savvily notes) -- that they are at odds, opposed. But Bull is fine with it (because Bull is utterly confident about himself, his sexuality, and his flexible alignments until pushed during 'Demands of the Qun'), while Dorian is self-hating and conflicted. So I love how Bull is just like, "I'm the forbidden. If you ever want to explore that, my door is open." While Dorian is terrified and worried and scared, and yet as we learn, he does in fact go to Bull and find companionship. To me it's all very believable as at least one potential romantic timeline in DAI as we play.

 

I like these two together so much I actually have problem romancing either of them  You're right about noticeable chemistry between one another and from what I've heard, the romance came naturally between writers, when they've noticed the potential for that chemistry between the two.

 

They're so... well.. adoribull together. Trespasser doesn't help, with their few strategic banters and epilogue slides - unlike Josie and Blackwall, we can see that no matter how much stands between them, they're still drawn to one another and care for one another deeply, d'awwwww.

[Gervaise]

Unless Bull is still with the Qun, in which case he says all the same things but is clearly just playing Dorian because when he turns on the party, he tries to kill Dorian first.   Can you imagine the emotional damage that does to Dorian?   Not adorable at all.     Mind you I think it should never have been Dorian hooking up with Bull if he was still in the Qun, particularly after Dorian had ranted away at Gaatt about how terrible the Qun is, because Dorian is an intelligent guy and I don't care how much sexual chemistry there is there, he knows that Bull is a full paid up spy for a regime that actively wants to destroy his beloved country, where Dorian just happens to come from one of the most strategically important areas, Qarinus and that if they took over Dorian would have his mind destroyed by the Ben Hassrath because that is what they do to mages raised outside the Qun.   Then in Trespasser when Dorian is now a Magister and official Ambassador for Tevinter, he says Bull doesn't understand why it is impossible for them to be together in Tevinter.   Like hell he doesn't.  

 

So Bull as Tal'Vashoth is credible but Bull still in Qun is not.  

[midnight tea]

Here's the thing - Iron Bull "given" to the Qun is not Iron Bull any longer, merely a facade. According to Cole after the fight the "Qun Bull" is pretty much empty inside. Therefore I never spoke of the "Qun Bull", only the actual Iron Bull - free of the Qun and their destructive influences.

[paramitch]

Unless Bull is still with the Qun, in which case he says all the same things but is clearly just playing Dorian because when he turns on the party, he tries to kill Dorian first.   Can you imagine the emotional damage that does to Dorian?   Not adorable at all.     Mind you I think it should never have been Dorian hooking up with Bull if he was still in the Qun, particularly after Dorian had ranted away at Gaatt about how terrible the Qun is, because Dorian is an intelligent guy and I don't care how much sexual chemistry there is there, he knows that Bull is a full paid up spy for a regime that actively wants to destroy his beloved country, where Dorian just happens to come from one of the most strategically important areas, Qarinus and that if they took over Dorian would have his mind destroyed by the Ben Hassrath because that is what they do to mages raised outside the Qun.   Then in Trespasser when Dorian is now a Magister and official Ambassador for Tevinter, he says Bull doesn't understand why it is impossible for them to be together in Tevinter.   Like hell he doesn't.  

 

So Bull as Tal'Vashoth is credible but Bull still in Qun is not.  

 

Here's my take, which is more in the middle, not quite as tragic.

 

I think Bull DOES fall for Dorian (or Quizzie) despite the events of "Demands of the Qun."

 

But the loss of the Chargers devastates him. Love isn't enough to fill the emptiness. He has learned terrible things about himself (and the emptiness of the Qun) that he can't live with or carry comfortably.

 

So my headcanon is that Bull has a satisfying and real romance (despite an inner emptiness), and that his feelings are genuine. But that sometime shortly before the reunion in "Trespasser," he puts himself through reeducation.

 

And emerges: Empty. He goes to the Winter Palace expecting to die and feeling as little as possible. I do think he feels something about the betrayals but... he's not him anymore. He needed us to help him remember that by saving the Chargers. (And by the way, I'm vague because I cannot, cannot, ever, ever bring myself to watch the damn videos of Bull betraying us -- I can't. I love Bull.)

 

Here's the thing - Iron Bull "given" to the Qun is not Iron Bull any longer, merely a facade. According to Cole after the fight the "Qun Bull" is pretty much empty inside. Therefore I never spoke of the "Qun Bull", only the actual Iron Bull - free of the Qun and their destructive influences.

 

See above. I think he's still him to a degree. But the inner fortress is gone. He needed us and the Chargers to be his best self. He lost too much. So I think he does feel actual love for our Quizzies or Dorian. But it's not enough. He lost his family and his faith at the same moment. He betrayed himself when he lost them because he already knew what he wanted to do -- but couldn't.

 

Just my take on it.

[SwobyJ]

Oh, I definitely get why Dorian would crush on Bull. From the first banters, they are both at odds yet completely fascinated with each other as the rival empires, as the people they should be fighting. And yet immediately, Bull notes how pretty Dorian is, and Dorian conversely immediately starts needling Bull about posturing or sweating or standing too close, etc. They start out bristling at each other and yet there's a sexual undercurrent. It is very very apparent that the two are attracted, whether or not they end up liking each other.

 

I played a Bullmancer my first playthrough (currently on a Cullenmance after Solasmance last time), and actually really enjoy that they DO end up liking each other. And enjoy the forbidden aspect (that Bull savvily notes) -- that they are at odds, opposed. But Bull is fine with it (because Bull is utterly confident about himself, his sexuality, and his flexible alignments until pushed during 'Demands of the Qun'), while Dorian is self-hating and conflicted. So I love how Bull is just like, "I'm the forbidden. If you ever want to explore that, my door is open." While Dorian is terrified and worried and scared, and yet as we learn, he does in fact go to Bull and find companionship. To me it's all very believable as at least one potential romantic timeline in DAI as we play.

 

I really like that Bull is so canonically bi, not just convenient-to-design bi (like DAO and DA2 was more like).

 

He enjoys the women around Haven and Skyhold, but more just for fun. He enjoys Dorian for romance, if you let him. He enjoys the Inquisitor, male or female, for either/both purposes.

 

I also like that it reminds me of a bi friend; he thinks in similar ways in that regard.

 

Also unlike (ME3 spoilers)

Spoiler

Garrus+Tali

, IronBull+Dorian doesn't feel like something you're actually intruding on from happening. Instead, its something you as the player has some agency over. On one hand it takes a little control out of the writers. On the other, it increases the way the player can manipulate their personal version of the story.

 

I was Bullmancer and it was hot/cold in different ways, but at least one future playthrough will be fully into taking Bull and Dorian along enough for them to click.

[Hazegurl]

No just something I found online credit goes to sebesun @tumblr

 

Anyways, here's another one I found for the Solas x Dorian shippers out there:

Spoiler

Don't make me start shipping Solas and Dorian....don't...make...me....

 

Now I wonder how it would have been if Dorian and Solas had hooked up.

 

 

Unless Bull is still with the Qun, in which case he says all the same things but is clearly just playing Dorian because when he turns on the party, he tries to kill Dorian first.   Can you imagine the emotional damage that does to Dorian?   Not adorable at all.     Mind you I think it should never have been Dorian hooking up with Bull if he was still in the Qun, particularly after Dorian had ranted away at Gaatt about how terrible the Qun is, because Dorian is an intelligent guy and I don't care how much sexual chemistry there is there, he knows that Bull is a full paid up spy for a regime that actively wants to destroy his beloved country, where Dorian just happens to come from one of the most strategically important areas, Qarinus and that if they took over Dorian would have his mind destroyed by the Ben Hassrath because that is what they do to mages raised outside the Qun.   Then in Trespasser when Dorian is now a Magister and official Ambassador for Tevinter, he says Bull doesn't understand why it is impossible for them to be together in Tevinter.   Like hell he doesn't.  

 

So Bull as Tal'Vashoth is credible but Bull still in Qun is not.

 

Well, Dorian is written as being stuck on all kinds of stupid with Qun Bull and not just during Trespasser.  I'm in the middle of my romance Cullen run and I'm at a point where Dorian and Bull have flirted a great deal and the relationship should be locking in soon, in addition to the flirting we've heard Bull's bragging about how great of a liar he is et al. I've been taking Bull and Dorian everywhere so it feels almost like he's dropping major hint bombs at Dorian and the IQ.  I'm not planning on doing Bull's personal quest so the Chargers are gonna live and Bull will still betray us in Trespasser.  I'm looking forward it. lol!

 

Right now it's like watching Dorian operate a train that's about to collide into something and he's too dim witted or desperate to hit the brakes. A sadistic part of me is oddly enjoying this.

[Milana]

Kudos to all you guys for loving abusive relationship. They may have tried to sweeten it in Trespasser, but for me Dorian seemed very uncomfortable with Bull's flirting,and not in a good way. His reactions to Inquisitor's flirting are way different.

[Milana]

In fact, just this ship played a big role in my despising of the game, developers making it canon, and a lot of people shipping it, made me feel like im in personal hell again.

[Gervaise]

That's part of the reason why I've always disliked the Bull/Dorian narrative because it makes Dorian look so stupid and has reverted to the sort of self destructive, hedonistic character he was back in Tevinter, where he really couldn't care less.    Now I could be wrong here, but I believe Dorian can only hook up with Bull long term (rather than just a one night stand) if he is on good terms with the Inquisitior (or at least he will only admit it to you if his is).   So that means you should have got him to a better place about himself by now and, by the end, he knows what it is to have a good, loyal friend backing him up and has been inspired by them to return to Tevinter and work to makes things better.   That means having to take control of his life and look at the wider picture.  That more responsible, confident Dorian doesn't really match with the Bull romance, where even as Tal'Vashoth he has to keep him hidden and can't admit it to anyone in Tevinter, which is odd when you think about it, because the Inquisitor romance can be a Vashoth qunari and he can admit to him to his allies.

 

I can't see the Dorian who is mixed up with a Qun Bull, having the political savvy or credibility to be heading up (with Maevaris) the lucerni party or making a success of it but I suppose that would be down to his relationship with the Inquisitor, who puts him back on track after the major setback over Bull.

 

Incidentally, I don't like that way Bull speaks to Dorian much of the time and feel he is demeaning him, as well as embarrassing him talking about intimate aspects of their relationship in front of other people, when Dorian clearly seems uncomfortable with that, (and behind Dorian's back to the Inquisitor) and that as a result Dorian becomes a much more passive, submissive person in his company, so that in fact he is a different person to how he develops in an Inquisitor/Dorian romance, which is why I find the writers promoting of the Bull one is so disappointing.  

[Andraste_Reborn]

Kudos to all you guys for loving abusive relationship. They may have tried to sweeten it in Trespasser, but for me Dorian seemed very uncomfortable with Bull's flirting,and not in a good way. His reactions to Inquisitor's flirting are way different.

 

Dorian often says one thing and means another. Remember that thing where he tells the Inquisitor 'you're terribly boring and I hate you?' It's the same thing with his attraction to Bull. He is uncomfortable with it at first, but in the same way he's uncomfortable with enjoying Ferelden beer. Bull flirts, but he backs off the one time he pushes it too far and Dorian reacts negatively.

 

Bull says 'if you're interested, my door is open', then Dorian shows up at said door, has reportedly enthusiastic sex with Bull three times and leaves his silky underwear behind. If Bull leaves the Qun, they end up happy together. There's no indication that the relationship is abusive.

[Gervaise]

The word "abusive" gets bandied about a lot and people immediately get defensive, which is why I avoid using the word.

 

The thing about Bull is that you could accept his indiscrete way of operating if he really was just a big, loud, not very socially astute, simple warrior, but he isn't.   He is a very observant, experienced, skilful agent.    He knows how people behave, how they react and how to push them so far but no further.     Dorian's embarrassment isn't an act; he is uncomfortable with Bull flaunting their intimate details in pubic and thus by continuing to do so, Bull is acting in a very unpleasant way because it is deliberate, not unknowing or oblivious.     

 

Then there is an earlier conversation where Bull talks to Dorian suggesting how Dorian views him as being some washed up individual (which Dorian has never given any indication of in front of the Inquisitor) and then says that he is holding up a mirror to Dorian.   That is deliberately putting ideas in is head to make him think less of himself.   Which is even more unsettling when you consider that Bull is a member of the Ben Hassrath, the Qunari thought police, and is well versed in their methods of manipulating people's minds.       That is what I don't like about his interactions with Dorian; the shades of the Qunari spy using his expertise to control Dorian. 

 

Then there is the incident of the drapes catching fire during sex because, according to Bull, Dorian is so worked up and excited.   There are several things to note here.   First, no mage of Dorian's experience would lose control of their magic during sex in that way, no matter how aroused they are.   To lose control in that way you need to be either in extreme physical or mental distress so that you are no longer in control of your mind.   If you are not in control of your mind then you are in danger of possession.   So whatever Bull was doing to Dorian was putting them both at risk.    I originally thought Bull wouldn't be aware of this, which is why he makes so light of it.   Then I read again about the Qun's attitude to magic and how they believe a saarebas, or mage, must be carefully controlled by someone else "because they cannot truly control themselves".   Which means Bull should have been freaking out about Dorian's loss of control, not joking about it.   Yet he is meant to care about Dorian.

 

Now the thing is the writer would probably argue he never intended these examples to be taken that way.   It is all perfectly innocent and light hearted banter and in another setting it might be.   However, we are in this setting and so I am deeply disturbed by it.   I didn't make the lore we are working in and the characters should be responding to, the writers did.     I can't help it if I immerse myself in the setting to properly role play the game and am thus unhappy with how one character is treating another.    I just wish I could tell the writers this (I don't do Facebook or Twitter), so they understand why I don't appreciate the Bull/Dorian relationship and can't understand why they don't make more of what I feel is the far more positive gay relationship between Dorian and the Inquisitor.

[midnight tea]

Kudos to all you guys for loving abusive relationship. They may have tried to sweeten it in Trespasser, but for me Dorian seemed very uncomfortable with Bull's flirting,and not in a good way. His reactions to Inquisitor's flirting are way different.

 

It's different, because both people are different. Inquisitor will never react the way Bull is, nor is the other way around. Relationship with Bull is, after all, also different with BullxInquisitor than it is with DorianxInquisitor.

 

The relationship is also hardly abusive IMO - the reason the romance is interesting is because there's a lot of insecurity and uncertainty on both sides. We can see that despite the Bull being apparently a skillful Ben Hassarath he gets flustered by Dorian and his responses and vice versa. But flustered and confused hardly means uncomfortable - Solas is flustered and confused and could be read as very uncomfortable at times with Lavellan's advances, but would you really call their relationship "abusive"? 

 

No, you wouldn't. Because it's silly.

 

So no - I didn't read as Dorian being uncomfortable in relationship. I've read it as being confused and unsure what to think, with massive trust issues on both sides (that are there no matter the romance) and with one of them being a Tevinter nobility and another a Ben-Hassarath/Tal Vashoth, in service of the Qun through at least a good portion of the game. There are a lot of things that is supposed to keep them apart - yet they work through it and find themselves drawn to themselves, and in Trespasser (if Buull is Tal-Vashoth) we see that this is indeed a relationship that seems to work out well.

 

 

Then there is the incident of the drapes catching fire during sex because, according to Bull, Dorian is so worked up and excited.   There are several things to note here.   First, no mage of Dorian's experience would lose control of their magic during sex in that way, no matter how aroused they are.

 

Er, no, not really. Just because a mage has great experience doesn't mean that they don't briefly lose control when they're really excited. Why do I say it?

Well, how does Solas flirts with mage Lavellan? He suggests that she has an indomitable focus and says that it would be fascinating to see it dominated. And since it's a flirt, it's hard to assume that he means anything other than being intimate with her and he'd find it exciting to see if he'd work her up so much that she'd lose control over herself. 

 

So yes, apparently, a good response of a mage of having really good time is apparently fireworks in bed

 

Plus, we do have a suggestion that Dorian is apparently pretty excitable in bed - if I recall from WOT2 there's a situation described that makes it pretty clear than when Dorian's in bed, he pretty much forgets about the whole world and just completely gives himself to having fun ;P

[Gervaise]

There is a difference between losing yourself in the moment as any person can do and losing control of your mind.   Normally a mage has to consciously want to produce magic and in so doing they draw on mana and also become connected with the Fade.   Because they are in conscious control, they are not in danger from the spirits that hover there.  Spirits are particularly attracted to mage because they can sense the magical signature attached to them, which is why they are in greater danger than non-mages of possession.   When a mage is under extreme duress, they connect with the Fade sub-consciously, may manifest magic without meaning to and are more vulnerable to possession.   

 

I've played a lot of mages and never has it been suggested before that if we became extremely sexually aroused we might suddenly start firing off spells without meaning to.  When Dorian was so totally engaged with that guy in WoT2, they simply weren't aware or didn't care what was going on beyond their door.   That didn't mean Dorian was firing off spells or not under mental control of his magic.     I like to think that my Inquisitor and Dorian have a very active and intense sex life and it is true that when they are together it allows both to forget the world outside and be wholly focussed on each other,  but it has never been suggested by the writers that anything untoward happens in the way of unexpected and unplanned magical activity.   Nor would I want them to because it would go against everything they have previously indicated regarding mages and magic.