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[Setitimer]

So I just finished Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts tonight.  I found it confusing and weird, and I ended up using TiffanyID's excellent Simplified Walkthrough from this site to get me through the Servants' Quarters part.  After that I managed the rest on my own.  I found a bunch of loot, evidently found enough evidence to end the quest, kept Celene on the throne, unwittingly forced Briala into exile, and had a 100 approval for a while.  Good enough I guess, I accomplished my goal of defeating Corypheus' plans.  But then, I read the Wiki page about the quest, and noticed all the possible alternate endings, the quantities of loot behind the various Halla doors, the different combinations of evidence and dialogue that lead to different outcomes.

 

Which leads me to my topic: is there anything in the actual game that tells you what to do to, either to advance the quest or to get a particular outcome?  It seems to me like the whole thing relies on trial and error, requiring multiple playthroughs before you have enough information to make decisions.  A few examples:

 

• There didn't seem to be anything to indicate whether a door was going to consume Halla statues before I tried to open it, so I couldn't really "choose" which ones to open to get whichever loot or evidence;
• There isn't anything to indicate what evidence I need to influence which ending;
• Dialogue choices for approval / disapproval are not intuitive at all; "Phillippe is a jerk" doesn't seem very diplomatic, and as a player you know nothing about that noble nor about Phillippe, yet it's the correct choice;
• I completely missed that I needed to go back and talk to two different people after exploring the Grand Apartments in order to get Briala and Celene back together;
• For that matter there was nothing to tell me that getting Briala and Celene was even a possible outcome until I read the wiki;
• etc.

 

In other words, it seems to me that this quest gives you limited resources (e.g. a max of 10 Halla but you would need 23 to open all the doors) but not enough information to properly decide how to use it.  Obviously, if you read a walkthrough or play it 10 different times 10 different ways you can find out for yourself, but neither of those options has anything to do with role-playing.

 

It would be great to get some insight from the designers on this one, because my only reaction really is "What were you thinking?"

[Gervaise]

Add to that they put a timer on the whole thing and then put at least one of the statues in a very frustrating place (the rafters) that I have only managed to get to once in about 10 playthroughs (is it easier on console than PC?) and it is really annoying.   Like you, I went through first time blind and was really taking pot luck on the doors, didn't get anywhere near the result I wanted, only to find out that it would have been different if only I'd not wasted the statues.   Completing the secrets quest was daft as well, since you had to break off from exploring (no sense of urgency?) and return to Leliana after entering the Royal suite because the last pages were there but you could only get them all if you did open a certain door.  

 

I would agree that it is virtually impossible to do this without meta gaming or consulting the forums and getting anywhere near the outcome you want.   It is all very well setting it up for multiple play throughs but it is irritating when it is so much a matter of trial and error just to find out the combinations needed to access certain doors and you aren't even aware that using them in an obvious place (like the garden) is going to prevent you from doing so later on doors that are important and without which it doesn't matter what your choice might be.

[Krypplingz]

I found the quest fairly easy to get through the first time around, but maybe I lucked out on picking the correct paths. WEWH spoilers below. 

 

There didn't seem to be anything to indicate whether a door was going to consume Halla statues before I tried to open it, so I couldn't really "choose" which ones to open to get whichever loot or evidence;

There is a quest for a Halla door in the starting area which spends the one Halla you find on the balcony above. It shows you how the Halla doors look and what happens when you open them. It seems fairly logical that the same applies to the other doors.

The Halla doors are also the only doors with shelves built around the frames. You can count how many Hallas it takes to open it by counting the empty slots around the door or reading the quest notes if you don't have all the required Hallas. 

 

Still I admit that picking the correct doors to open on your first game is quite hard. And the game is quite evil to lock Varric behind a Halla door. 

 

There isn't anything to indicate what evidence I need to influence which ending;

After Florienne's dance your advisers tell you that you can manipulate events so that one of the trio can be in charge of Orlais and the game gives you the evidence you need for free. The only endings you need to work for is Celene and Brialla as lovers and the threeway truce, which are bonus options. 

 

If you find the locket your companions tell you that it is connected to Celene and that keeping it might have been a mistake on her part. This opens up a dialog option on the first wheel with Celenes spokes people and Brialla herself. 

Celene is supposed to be a master of the game, so finding proper blackmail on her is supposed to be an accomplishment and incredibly lucky, not something that should be easily gotten on a first playthrough. 

 

Dialogue choices for approval / disapproval are not intuitive at all; "Phillippe is a jerk" doesn't seem very diplomatic, and as a player you know nothing about that noble nor about Phillippe, yet it's the correct choice;

 

Well he tells you that Phillipe ditched him to bang some servants leaving him to deliver Gaspard's vitriol.

If you were thorough in your questing you should have "The Great Blackmail quest" which tells you that scandalous secrets are everywhere and they will give you power. So secrets=good.

People tend to let things slip when they are emotional (angry, sad, scared). He would probably spill more beans if he was venting to good old Quizzy (Phillipe is a jerk) rather than if he was calmly explaining his problems . And since most of the court knows that Gaspard is sending out threats (background banter) they disapprove of you not being in on the latest gossip. 

 

I figured this was supposed to be one of those dialog minefields that Josephine pulled you aside to warn you about when you entered the palace. 

 

I completely missed that I needed to go back and talk to two different people after exploring the Grand Apartments in order to get Briala and Celene back together;

For that matter there was nothing to tell me that getting Briala and Celene was even a possible outcome until I read the wiki;

When you finish dancing with Florienne the game gives you the quest to Greet the Empress ladies in waiting and Speak with Ambassador Brialla. The dialog option is sitting on the first dialog wheel for both parties. The game figured that you would probably just run through the timer areas once and that you would do the quests as they appeared. 

 

Hopefully this shed some light (or even more confusion) on your questions.

_{And sorry if it comes off as hostile, it's not supposed to but tone is hard to read on the net.} 

[Setitimer]

The Halla doors are also the only doors with shelves built around the frames. You can count how many Hallas it takes to open it by counting the empty slots around the door or reading the quest notes if you don't have all the required Hallas.

Fair enough, I did not notice that.

 

Still I admit that picking the correct doors to open on your first game is quite hard.

How can you intelligently pick the correct doors at all?  You can't know what's behind them, you don't know how many there are, you don't know how many Halla you will ever find, and you don't even know what you are looking for.

 

Well he tells you that Phillipe ditched him to bang some servants leaving him to deliver Gaspard's vitriol.

You only learn that after you have called Philippe a jerk.

 

When you finish dancing with Florienne the game gives you the quest to Greet the Empress ladies in waiting and Speak with Ambassador Brialla. The dialog option is sitting on the first dialog wheel for both parties.

No, you get that quest ("Behind every Empress") after you meet Morrigan.  After you dance with Florienne you get a cut scene with your Advisors and the quest prompts you to investigate the Royal Wing. There is nothing to indicate that new dialogue would be available with Brialla or the Ladies in Waiting after dancing with Florienne.  And it doesn't make much sense to go talking to people again at that point, when you know the assassin is on the move.

 

It is clear that these are all "it's easy when you know how" things but it absolutely sucks for a first playthrough.  Unfortunately, this has been my broader experience with this game; the pacing and drama is frequently ruined by unnecessarily puzzle-like aspects where one mistake wrecks the outcome.  The rescue stuff in In Your Heart Shall Burn, for example, was the same type of thing; what would have been a fast-paced and exciting scene turns into a frustrating slog because you're expected to know that only a fighter can smash a box and you only have X seconds to do it.

[Mikoto8472]

I admit I ran into the same problem with WEaWH, OP.

 

I got kind of lucky though because only a short way into the quest I realised that I was potentially in over my head and was absolutely confused about what I had to do next, where to get it or how much time I had. So I gave in and paused the game, got my laptop out (since I'm playing on PS4, it worked out) and did a hasty search for a suitable walkthrough that would help me avoid me ruining the whole thing by making a mistake at the wrong moment.

 

As it happened my Search tossed up TiffanyD's simplified guide which was sufficient to get me the outcome I wanted. Which was Celene alone on the throne as uncontested Empress. I don't even know what happened to Briala.

[Krypplingz]

How can you intelligently pick the correct doors at all?

It would need video game logic, but when you pick up the first Halla you can see that there are 10 you can collect. The first two doors inside the palace need 3 Halla's so it might make sense to hold on to them for some while in case there are other doors. 

But yeah, it needs some logic stretching.

 

You only learn that after you have called Philippe a jerk.

No, the first thing he says is: "Philippe should have returned hours ago! Dallying with some serving girl while I deal with Gaspard vitriol?"

Then you can pick Philippe is a jerk. 

 

No, you get that quest ("Behind every Empress") after you meet Morrigan.

Ah. It appears after you enter the ballroom after meeting Morrigan. The walkthroughs I was watching did the same as I do and went straight to the servants quarters so the dialog appeared in a smoother manner. 

When you talk to the group and investigate you have the option to say that you found something, which could clue you in that there might be something new at a later date that you can talk about.

But yes it can be something you discover in a later playthrough.

 

 The rescue stuff in In Your Heart Shall Burn, for example, was the same type of thing; what would have been a fast-paced and exciting scene turns into a frustrating slog because you're expected to know that only a fighter can smash a box and you only have X seconds to do it.

Well having x seconds to do something should make it feel more fast paced and exciting? Rather than casually picking up the box, moving it around and then leisurely raising up the fallen. And having people roast alive does score Cory some evil points. 

Harrits boxes can be blasted with immolate, flashfire, default staff attacks, Bianca, explosive shot, long shot, Leaping shot (my favorite) and dagger stabbing. 

Sergrits door is a bit more tricky since the timer is on there so default staff, bow, longshot and leaping shot are out, but immolate, explosive shot and dagger stabs, still work. Throwing daggers also work, but you probably don't have them first time around. 

Then there is also a path you can climb and jump, but you need a good eye and a quick mind for that one first time around. 

So you don't need a fighter to rescue the peeps in Haven.

[AnimalBoy]

I still haven't managed to get Celena and Brialla reunited. All because of one statue i couldn't open that door.