114 réponses à ce sujet

[Tidus]

DA:I wouldn't be so bad if one had to find a way to close the breech and find the killer of the Devine  but,it gets tangle up with a Templar/mage war, more demons(replacement for Darkspawn?) bears (why do they attack?) gangs of bandits and for the icing on the cake we have rogue Templars with a sociopathic leader...

 

I do enjoy the hunt for the Elk so the refugees can be fed.

 

I wish Bio Ware would change DA where its not complicated with other major problems or hunting down allies only to have to do their quest before they will help and let's see peace between the Templars and the mages in one game at least. 

[In Exile]

you're thinking retroactively. Flemeth was a powerful shapeshifter and sorceress. She can be killed by the Warden, Oghern, Sten and Zevran with blades and nothing else.

 

But the point is not if Solas can be killed or not, the point is how much magic crap is needed to achive that.

For the archdemon, very little: a simple ritual performed after 5 hours.

 

 

 

the children of the forest were introduced very early. You don't know they are still alive somewhere until ADWD, but you are well aware of their existence.

they are powerful? I don't think so. They're hinding in a hobbit hole under the snow. Have they shown powerful magic that influence the story? Not yet.

They valyrian are gone, and the first man too. Their magic is gone.

 

Yes, magic is returning, but it's still contained. GRRM said so. A little salt, a little spice, nothing more.

 

In the DA Lore magic is far more important and decisive.

 

 

 

what can be done by one mage, can be replicate by another. It usually works this way: a new type of magic is introduced in the lore, and suddenly it's everywhere (like red lyrium).

 

Solas/Fen Harel magic could be unique? I hope so.

 

1. No. You're completely wrong when it comes to Flemeth, and the kind of power we are talking about here. Hakkon in DA:I is an abomination. It's also something the Avaar believe is a literal god. Corypheus is usually immortal and can die from repeated stabbing in the face. You're getting super hung on on label here, but Flemeth in DA:I isn't more powerful than Flemeth in DA:O. 

 

2. There's 0 evidence we need any special magic to kill an Evanuris, including Solas, if that's what he was (notwithstanding what the Dalish remember he never actually says he was a god in the same way)  apart from a good stab to the face. 

 

3. The COTF are said to have obliterated an entire continent from existence, which is what separated Westeros from Essos. That's a WMD the likes of which we have never seen. As I said before, if you take them at their word for what they can do, we are talking about magic comparable to Lord of the Rings.

 

mmm no, there is nothing to interpret or understand.

 

ASOIAF is fantasy, so some amount of magic is needed (or it would be nothing more than a bernard cornwell novel).

 

 

but magic need to be contained, and carefully used. It should never became decisive (deus ex machina etc.) or pivotal.

 

 

As you say, you’re writing fantasy, you could give this story any sort of history that you wanted. Is there something that you gain from borrowing from the template of something we’ve seen in the real world, in our actual history, and using that in this world?

I think you gain a level of, I don’t know, realism. You’re not going to be careful in fantasy because it can easily pull apart. Magic is a particular — I mean, my fantasy is quite low magic compared to the majority of it out there. And in that sense, I was following Tolkien’s footsteps because if you actually look at Lord of the Rings as I did when I was writing this, [Middle Earth is] a very magical world in a sense, it’s a world of wonders and marvels and so forth, but there’s very little onstage magic. You know? You never see Gandalf doing a spell or, or creating throwing fireballs. You know, if there’s a fight, he draws a sword. You know? He does fireworks… his staff will glow. Minor stuff. Even the magic rings, I mean, the big powerful one ring, all we ever see it do is make people invisible.

You know, it’s not you know, it’s supposed to have these great powers for domination, but it’s not like Frodo can put it on and tell the Nazgul what to do. You know it doesn’t work that simply. It’s unknowable, it’s mysterious. And that kind of magic I think is good. One mistake I see over time in bad fantasy is they go for the high magic world. They have really powerful wizards and witches and warlocks who can destroy entire armies–and they still have entire armies! No, you got that A equals B here. If you’ve got one guy who can go, booga-booga, and your 10,000 men army is all dead, you’re not going to get together 10,000 men!

 

 

 

 

for the complete interview

http://entertainment...sy-and-history/

 

You just gave a quote that literally said what I told you: GRRM thinks Lord of the Rings is low magic. There's a lot to interpret. 

[Ashagar]

Hmm this is getting into rather subjective territory with all the talk of low, high and dark fantasy which tend mean different things to different people. That being said I always thought Dragon Age was more Heroic fantasy than anything else. I never really viewed in the lenses of being as being high, low or dark fantasy.

[Marshal Moriarty]

As soon as you introduce elements like actual Time Travel, and meeting actual Gods and finding out the real truth about ancient deities and races, then you are putting your story's crediblity into grave difficulties. It locks you into an endless spiral of trying to up the ante, because if a previous character has met Gods and been to heaven itself or learned the truth behind some of the world's biggest mysteries, then the next character must have something equally far fetched and outrageous just to be considered as standing still by many of the fans.

 

Plus people have always refused to seperate what they know and what their characters know. If you tell them the truth about the Warden's powers, the history of the Dalish etc etc they will act like they knew it all along, that every character they play knows it, despite that obviously not being the case. And this is before we even get into the whole issue of retcon and dodgy continuity in general, given that the writers don't always read each other's work, remember it or simply choose to reimagine bits of it.

 

What I'm driving at is that it isn't a good idea to have these kinds of 'Everything you knew is false' revelations. They work for a quick hit of 'Woahhhh!' by the fans, but then it all starts to unravel and/or becomes an inconvenient millstone around the writer's necks which they cannot escape from. The 'higher mysteries' of the world (i.e the truth of the Gods, their existence and to what extent they act on the world, the histories of ancient times etc etc) are things that should be left alone. It isn't helpful or credible to have your characters casually uncovering such enormous secrets like they were nothing. Because the genie will be out of the bottle on it then, and far too many people will assume all their characters know this and will expect it to be addressed and developed in games years and years down the line, long after the writers have stopped being interested in said revelations and just wish they had never mentioned it in the first place.

 

And of course enough, please God enough, with the world threatening menaces and existence destroying, redefining etc ancient evils! The DA world does not need more of that - it needs crediblity, continuity, sensible stories with good characters who are utlized often and well by the narrative to engage and enthrall. Stick to stories about characters, and narratives that focus on motivation, action, drama etc rather than going for 'Bet you never saw this one coming!' revelations about the nature of existence or how the guy selling the apples in the corner of the market IS DUMAT!!!!!

[Addictress]

I personally love the time magic. If cleverly used and carefully, it will make Thedas EXPONENTIALLY more awesome in my eyes.

Again I point to Looking Glass by Feynite.

[Seraphim24]

Yeah, that was kind of my point. The political crisis comes first, and the red lyrium only made the outcome a bit worse than it otherwise would have been. Or maybe even better, since Meredith might have retained some credibility -- after all, Orsino really was involved with crazy murderous blood mage necromancers.
 

You really should puck up Trespasser, at least.

 

I watched the trailer... I don't get it, just like I don't really get a lot of modern Bioware.

[Seraphim24]

You just gave a quote that literally said what I told you: GRRM thinks Lord of the Rings is low magic. There's a lot to interpret. 

 

A lot to interpret, GRRM seems to be pretty clear he wanted to create very low fantasy, he almost didn't even put Dragons into the books at all until someone said apparently "It's fantasy George, you have to put Dragons."

 

GoT was pretty clearly positioned as less magical than LOTR, but I don't think he meant it was "low magic" per se, he just meant the use of magic, in small quantities, made it more impactful and meaningful.

 

But we're discussing Dragon Age right? Dragon Age has lots of magic spells but magic in the world is extremely limited, any "city" in Fereldan resembles like a monastery or small township in like Medieval Germany or something, at best, you have a chanter who casts minor blessings but all the magic is contained entirely by the Circle, and almost entirely within the Circle Towers, which are pretty much all almost completely like Templar bases.

 

The theme of Dragon Age is basically one of permitting magic in an extremely regulated, highly constrained, and often contentious context.

 

The one exception is the Tevinter Imperium, and yet they haven't showed up in the games at all, as it's presented in the codices they are possibly just one rag-tag renegade group of just random mages really. The conflict between Tevinter and Elhaven is kind of the creation mythology of Dragon Age and probably the most magical moment, but as stated, hasn't really been shown in any detail.

 

The fade is arguably an exception but it's relevance tends to pertain exactly in relationship to those who invoke it, i.e. in dreams or through the use of regular magic. It's vague to the point where you could argue it's function is no more potent in practice than ordinary dreams and nightmares.

[ModernAcademic]

Yes, and they're losing me because of it.

 

It's not having magical elements that makes something "blatantly" high fantasy... it's the level to which magic is always utilized, and moreso how much it is a solution.

 

DA:2 starts it

 

- Meredith Super Saiyan

- Fenris Lyrium Super Soldier (lesser extent)

- impossible teleporting magic that's actually illusion

 

But DA:I just goes mad with it

 

- The Breach

- The Orb

- spirits... Spirits... SPIRITS EVERYWHERE!

- impossible time magic that's now possible

- and, of course, Solas... the character that makes Meredith Super Saiyan look tame.

 

Some of the magical elements are well implemented:

 

- Golems

- Fenris (it's not the lyrium powers - it's how they're presented I think I have an issue with.  The lyrium valaslin are cool in my opinion.)

- The Broken Circle - excellent use of DA's magical elements.

-  Titans.  They're not "usuable" - they're dangerous and mysterious and powerful.  This is good implementation.  Now... if in DA 4 we're taking control of a Titan and riding it to victory against Solas... yeah... horrible. 

 

 

It's also what they DON'T do anymore:

 

-  Where did the abominations go?  The WORST part of DA:I.  All these disoriented demons in pain... and a million mages in distress... and not a single abomination.  What?

 

- Threat of possession.  Now every mage is just SO strong and prepped and not worried. 

 

- Blood magic.  I loathe blood magic... it's the worst part of DA lore in my opinion... and yet, I feel like all the use of magic WITHOUT blood magic being involved... somehow makes it more high fantasy.

 

- Spirits and Demons being rare and dangerous.  Yeah... DA:I basically made spirits/demons canon fodder like your basic darkspawn... lame. 

 

NOTE:  I actually really enjoy DA:I.  But the direction is NOT where I want 4 to go.

 

Agree 100% with all that's said above.

 

Also,

 

Meredith Super Sayan

Fenris Lyrium Super Soldier

- spirits... Spirits... SPIRITS EVERYWHERE!

- impossible time magic that's now possible

- and, of course, Solas... the character that makes Meredith Super Saiyan look tame.

- Threat of possession.  Now every mage is just SO strong and prepped and not worried. 

 

 

 

 

The worst part is that it's all true. Can't even defend BW at this point.

 

Let's not forget the golden topic: Inquisitor goes on foot to pick elfroot, wandering miles and miles in the wilderness right in the middle of a mage-templar war, risking an early death at the start of the game? Seriously? 

 

 

Is anyone at BW paying attention? 

[In Exile]

A lot to interpret, GRRM seems to be pretty clear he wanted to create very low fantasy, he almost didn't even put Dragons into the books at all until someone said apparently "It's fantasy George, you have to put Dragons."

 

GoT was pretty clearly positioned as less magical than LOTR, but I don't think he meant it was "low magic" per se, he just meant the use of magic, in small quantities, made it more impactful and meaningful.

 

But we're discussing Dragon Age right? Dragon Age has lots of magic spells but magic in the world is extremely limited, any "city" in Fereldan resembles like a monastery or small township in like Medieval Germany or something, at best, you have a chanter who casts minor blessings but all the magic is contained entirely by the Circle, and almost entirely within the Circle Towers, which are pretty much all almost completely like Templar bases.

 

The theme of Dragon Age is basically one of permitting magic in an extremely regulated, highly constrained, and often contentious context.

 

The one exception is the Tevinter Imperium, and yet they haven't showed up in the games at all, as it's presented in the codices they are possibly just one rag-tag renegade group of just random mages really. The conflict between Tevinter and Elhaven is kind of the creation mythology of Dragon Age and probably the most magical moment, but as stated, hasn't really been shown in any detail.

 

The fade is arguably an exception but it's relevance tends to pertain exactly in relationship to those who invoke it, i.e. in dreams or through the use of regular magic. It's vague to the point where you could argue it's function is no more potent in practice than ordinary dreams and nightmares.

 

That's not what GRRM means. Here's a better illustration:

 

I think you gain a level of, I don’t know, realism. You’re not going to be careful in fantasy because it can easily pull apart. Magic is a particular — I mean, my fantasy is quite low magic compared to the majority of it out there. And in that sense, I was following Tolkien’s footsteps because if you actually look at Lord of the Rings as I did when I was writing this, [Middle Earth is] a very magical world in a sense, it’s a world of wonders and marvels and so forth, but there’s very little onstage magic. You know? You never see Gandalf doing a spell or, or creating throwing fireballs. You know, if there’s a fight, he draws a sword. You know? He does fireworks… his staff will glow. Minor stuff. Even the magic rings, I mean, the big powerful one ring, all we ever see it do is make people invisible.

You know, it’s not you know, it’s supposed to have these great powers for domination, but it’s not like Frodo can put it on and tell the Nazgul what to do. You know it doesn’t work that simply. It’s unknowable, it’s mysterious. And that kind of magic I think is good. One mistake I see over time in bad fantasy is they go for the high magic world. They have really powerful wizards and witches and warlocks who can destroy entire armies–and they still have entire armies! No, you got that A equals B here. If you’ve got one guy who can go, booga-booga, and your 10,000 men army is all dead, you’re not going to get together 10,000 men!

 

GRRM understands low fantasy to mean something very different from the posters in this thread. And I agree with his view. What he describes is low magic, low fantasy. DA:O was always high fantasy, from the moment we saw a mage cast a spell. 

 

 

[Seraphim24]

 

That's not what GRRM means. Here's a better illustration:

 

I think you gain a level of, I don’t know, realism. You’re not going to be careful in fantasy because it can easily pull apart. Magic is a particular — I mean, my fantasy is quite low magic compared to the majority of it out there. And in that sense, I was following Tolkien’s footsteps because if you actually look at Lord of the Rings as I did when I was writing this, [Middle Earth is] a very magical world in a sense, it’s a world of wonders and marvels and so forth, but there’s very little onstage magic. You know? You never see Gandalf doing a spell or, or creating throwing fireballs. You know, if there’s a fight, he draws a sword. You know? He does fireworks… his staff will glow. Minor stuff. Even the magic rings, I mean, the big powerful one ring, all we ever see it do is make people invisible.

You know, it’s not you know, it’s supposed to have these great powers for domination, but it’s not like Frodo can put it on and tell the Nazgul what to do. You know it doesn’t work that simply. It’s unknowable, it’s mysterious. And that kind of magic I think is good. One mistake I see over time in bad fantasy is they go for the high magic world. They have really powerful wizards and witches and warlocks who can destroy entire armies–and they still have entire armies! No, you got that A equals B here. If you’ve got one guy who can go, booga-booga, and your 10,000 men army is all dead, you’re not going to get together 10,000 men!

 

GRRM understands low fantasy to mean something very different from the posters in this thread. And I agree with his view. What he describes is low magic, low fantasy. DA:O was always high fantasy, from the moment we saw a mage cast a spell. 

 

Ok, but we're discussing Dragon Age, Dragon Age has mages who cast spells, but certain magical elements in High Fantasy trend towards creating whole lords, things with infinite power, great magical creatures and stuff.

 

Outside of the mages casting spells part, Dragon Age isn't very magical.

[SwobyJ]

Ok, but we're discussing Dragon Age, Dragon Age has mages who cast spells, but certain magical elements in High Fantasy trend towards creating whole lords, things with infinite power, great magical creatures and stuff.

 

Outside of the mages casting spells part, Dragon Age isn't very magical.

All that stuff you listed is in DA (DAO-DAOA) too.

 

[Seraphim24]

All that stuff you listed is in DA (DAO-DAOA) too.

 

 

Well, I think the point of this discussion was to determine just how high fantasy Dragon Age is ultimately.

[M-Taylor]

 

 

2. There's 0 evidence we need any special magic to kill an Evanuris, including Solas, if that's what he was (notwithstanding what the Dalish remember he never actually says he was a god in the same way)  apart from a good stab to the face. 

 

 

 

I agree with everything you have said except that. The entire plot about the Evanuris is based around how they could not be killed; Solas says he had to seal them in the Fade because killing them would be futile. He says something like 'The First of my people are not so easily killed'. Furthermore, Flemeth is living proof that Evanruis are immortal to a point; the wisp of Mythal survived, despite being greatly weakened.

 

So there's actually quite a bit of substantial evidence that special magic is required to kill the Evanuris, however, you are quite right in that Solas has yet to actually been indentified as one of them. I kinda got the vibe that he wasn't. >.>

[SwobyJ]

Well, I think the point of this discussion was to determine just how high fantasy Dragon Age is ultimately.

 

I don't see your point there. This is from DAO. It doesn't get less high fantasy than this.

 

BRB heading into magical dream realm in the Circle Tower, a realm that was magically entered by magisters of the past, in the land that a future game will take place in. Then I'm going to fight the animated trees and change werewolves to elves.

 

I tend to think DA is pretty high fantasy but just takes lessons from lower fantasy in its characterization. People trying to handle a situation and setting that either is, or is being revealed to be more high fantasy than their liking.

[SwobyJ]

I agree with everything you have said except that. The entire plot about the Evanuris is based around how they could not be killed; Solas says he had to seal them in the Fade because killing them would be futile. He says something like 'The First of my people are not so easily killed'. Furthermore, Flemeth is living proof that Evanruis are immortal to a point; the wisp of Mythal survived, despite being greatly weakened.

 

So there's actually quite a bit of substantial evidence that special magic is required to kill the Evanuris, however, you are quite right in that Solas has yet to actually been indentified as one of them. I kinda got the vibe that he wasn't. >.>

 

Solas is Evanuris and is the god of rebellion. However, he had sympathies with the Forgotten Ones (and perhaps was even considered one of them as well) and has severed ties with both in his betrayal of them.

 

During this time and afterward, he stood alone and let others think he allied with them until he would strike.

 

To me he seemed to care about the Evanuris for the sake of Mythal, and the Forgotten Ones for the sake of them overall (but not as much as he cared for Mythal).

 

Given that he could exist among the Evanuris as the god of rebellion, I will presume that at least during ancient times he held the same qualities as them, at least in some guise.

[Nimlowyn]

Solas is Evanuris and is the god of rebellion. However, he had sympathies with the Forgotten Ones (and perhaps was even considered one of them as well) and has severed ties with both in his betrayal of them.

 

During this time and afterward, he stood alone and let others think he allied with them until he would strike.

 

To me he seemed to care about the Evanuris for the sake of Mythal, and the Forgotten Ones for the sake of them overall (but not as much as he cared for Mythal).

 

Given that he could exist among the Evanuris as the god of rebellion, I will presume that at least during ancient times he held the same qualities as them, at least in some guise.

Solas had sympathies with the Forgotten Ones? Where are you getting this? I'm genuinely curious. 

[Gervaise]

The difference between say Lord of the Rings and Dragon Age is that in the former the world is in fact becoming less magical.    In the past magic was far more prevalent with far more magical being roaming the world generally but most of these have gone or only exist in small enclaves, like the Ents, Rivendell, etc.  Most of what can be produced in the way of magic in LotR has its origins in the rings of power.   Elrond admits at the Council that he suspects that if the One Ring is destroyed, then the Three will lose their power as well and magic will go out of Middle Earth and the elves will go with it.   He says that the elves are prepared to make this sacrifice if it removes the evil.    At the end this comes true.   In a way it is Tolkein's way of explaining why our world no longer has magic.

 

By contrast Dragon Age is now working in the opposite direction.   True a lot of mages in Origins could throw fire balls but in a way that made it a level playing field.   In any case, because non-mages realised the advantage that this gave over them, that is why the mages were locked up and closely guarded, to prevent another Tevinter Imperium.   The mages there are reduced in power from of old and in any case have their own problem in a magic fearing political regime, but technically superior in mundane power, that has been embroiled in an ongoing war with them for several hundred years.   The elves claimed they were magical in the past and had a powerful, magical Empire, but this was gone and their status in the world had gone with it, even though some of them can still do magic.    The important difference with D&D is that whatever gods were in the setting no longer answered prayers, so you couldn't look to them for amazing powers.   So there was enough magic to make it interesting without thinking that one person, with a powerful artefact, could change the world.

 

That is the difference that DAI introduced.   One person with a powerful artefact could change the world.    It is only through an accidental series of events and misjudgement on the part of Solas that the world wasn't already burning.     Thedas hadn't always existed as Fade, Veil, Material World.     It wasn't one powerful magical empire that defeated another powerful magical empire by using different magic but one individual altering the nature of reality.    It may be possible to kill Solas by sticking a knife to the face but you have to get close enough first.    He can now turn individuals to stone permanently with just a thought.   He doesn't even have to be looking at them to do this.   He is also a Dreamer who can walk into your dreams and your mind and kill you there.  Plus he has control of a network of magical mirrors and the alternate reality that links them so he and his follows can travel anywhere in Thedas in days whilst the rest of us should take weeks.   And the orb wasn't a one off because Dorian has seen pictures of them in the Tevinter archives and Solas says they were likely acquired by those early Tevinter mages, not made by them.   So the likelihood is there are others out there.    

 

There is also the fact that we were told that it was the great sin of actually walking physically in the Fade, where people are not meant to go, that caused the corruption of the Magisters and that to get there they had to use half the lyrium supplies of Tevinter and the blood of hundreds of slaves.    Then the Inquisitor just waves their hand and suddenly we are walking physically in the Fade, all of us not just the Inquisitor, and with no adverse consequences.  Of course it turns out in the past the elves did this all the time because there was no Veil.    We also know that if you have enough magic you can even stop time in a localised area (the Tevinter mages in the Western Approach did it without a rift) or even travel through time.    Plus you can now levitate objects (big ones) provided you have enough magical power.

 

So whilst you can look back at the lore and say that the hints were there that this was possible, it does make it different from the setting we knew back in DAO.   There is no longer a level playing field with regard to magical ability and at the end of the day it is about one individual with the knowledge of how to alter reality if he can only acquire sufficient power again and you trying to stop them from doing so.   

[kal_reegar]

 

1. No. You're completely wrong when it comes to Flemeth, and the kind of power we are talking about here. Hakkon in DA:I is an abomination. It's also something the Avaar believe is a literal god. Corypheus is usually immortal and can die from repeated stabbing in the face. You're getting super hung on on label here, but Flemeth in DA:I isn't more powerful than Flemeth in DA:O. 

 

2. There's 0 evidence we need any special magic to kill an Evanuris, including Solas, if that's what he was (notwithstanding what the Dalish remember he never actually says he was a god in the same way)  apart from a good stab to the face. 

 

3. The COTF are said to have obliterated an entire continent from existence, which is what separated Westeros from Essos. That's a WMD the likes of which we have never seen. As I said before, if you take them at their word for what they can do, we are talking about magic comparable to Lord of the Rings.

 

1) Flemeth in DA:O is presented as an old, powerful abomination living in a hut in the swamp. Not even close to a god/demi-god. She is also easily killable. This cannot be said for the Flemeth of DA2 and DA:I

 

2) there are a lot of evidence. Even Solas tell us that.

 

3) Yes, they did, 10000 years ago. The past legends/myths/events doesn't count. I'm talking about the influence/impact of the magic on the story, the actual storu.

The Silmarillion is full of magic and wierd things, flying boats, Gods, Demi gods etc acting in first person and reshaping the World. This doesn't make LOTR a novel with huge amount of magic.

 

 

 

 

You just gave a quote that literally said what I told you: GRRM thinks Lord of the Rings is low magic. There's a lot to interpre

 

 

my fantasy is quite low magic compared to the majority of it out there. 

He's talking about ASOIAF.

 

Come on man, the meaning of the interview it's clear and simple: Tolkien's moderate and cautious use of magic is inspiring GRRM, who is trying to do the same thing. Little magic, used carefully.

 

 

 

 

What he describes is low magic, low fantasy. DA:O was always high fantasy, from the moment we saw a mage cast a spell. 

 

I can agree on that. DA was always high fantasy, from the very beginning. Surely more high fantasy than LOTR or ASOIAF. Yes, we can say that.

 

But, dropping the issue of the academic definition of high/low fantasy, I ask you... do you really think that "introducing elements like actual Time Travel, and meeting actual Gods and finding out the real truth about ancient deities and races (and the possibility of reshaping the very fabric of reality)" doesn't make the DA LORE more "fantasy?" Less "realistic"? More "magic-centric"?

[Gordon_4]

I always figured that Dragon Age was using Dark/Low Fantasy as it's foundation, walls and roof but all the fittings and decor were from Epic/High Fantasy with an appropriate layer of grime.

[Medhia_Nox]

Sure we never "see" Gandalf cast a spell... but we know there is a lightning storm on Weathertop when Gandalf is fighting the Ring Wraiths... and I have this sneaky suspicion it wasn't just some crazy weather coincidence. 

 

Also... there's a very clear reason he can fight a Balrog and everyone else can't.

 

The point for me is that magic isn't easy in LoTR or ASOIAF... it costs, it isn't flashy and it isn't common or easy.

 

In DA:O... magic was not common.  It was centralized in a Circle Tower.... and the rest of the world had a smattering of wandering mages who never seemed to really do much.  Wilhelm in Honnleath... Jowan in Redcliff. 

 

We are presented with a VERY different magic in the Circle Tower of the mage origin than what we get by Tresspasser. 

 

In DA:O... magic was dangerous... but by DA:I every mage just "knows" they're capable of fighting off demon possession... and, not an abomination in sight. 

 

In DA:O... yes, there are smatterings of fantastical creatures.  You have pockets of demons, glowing dragons, etc. but by DA:I spirits and demons are littering the place... the spirit realm is wide open... but the world far more resembles D&D by the end of DA:I than it does what was presented in DA:O.

 

In DA:O the main quests are:

 

- Decide who becomes King of Orzammar and get the allegiance of the dwarves.

- Unite Ferelden and get the allegiance of humanity.

- End an ancient curse and gain allegiance of the Dalish.

 

Was DA:O "low fantasy"?  No.  But it was a marked step down from D&D.

 

In DA:I the main quest is:

 

- Stop an uber mage from conquering Thedas.

- Close the magical tear into the realm of magic.

- Fight off Inky, Blinky and Clyde

- Discovery the uber mage you defeated was being played by an EVEN MORE UBER MAGE GOD mwaahaha!

 

I think DA:I suffers from the same thing a lot of stories do.  Power creep to make the story feel "more important". 

 

Maybe we need more than two classifications of fantasy:

 

- low magic

- high magic

- preposterous magic (I actually don't mind it for worlds based of fairy tale concepts - but that's not the premise of the original DA)

[kal_reegar]

 

- Discovery the uber mage you defeated was being played by an EVEN MORE UBER MAGE GOD mwaahaha!

 

I think DA:I suffers from the same thing a lot of stories do.  Power creep to make the story feel "more important". 

 

 

I totally agree.

 

I enjoyed DA:I very much, but the path they've taken is dangerous, IMO.

 

Solas is a great character, and he can ben a great, interesting, charismatic and uber powerful villain. But (IMO) he should be the last "Thedas potential distructor" (at least for a while).

A world that need to be saved from some crazy/corrupted god-mage every 5 years is simply ridicoulus.

 

DA Lore is a really good fantasy lore, with great potential: complex, varied, for the most part, still unexplored. Tevinter, the Quanari threat, the Armada pirates, Weisshaupt, Antiva/Crows, the Deep Roads, Kal Sharok etc.... all of this can be interweaved in one, two, three beautiful stories.

We saved the world twice: in DA:O and DA:I. Probably we'll save it again in DA4.

 

DA2 and Awekening prove that also minor/local threats can be a good basis for good, epic stories. Yeah, DA2 has many defects and act3 is rushed, but fighting the arishok and expelling the qunari from kirkwall was as epic as destroying a magister on a floating mountain. Maybe more epic.

 

I think that also other RPG videogames (like ME2, or Fallout 3 and FAllout NV) proves that.

Saving humany is fun, but not all the time. And not if the "price" is constantly creating more and more OP, magical enemies that change the rules of the Lore. In the end, you will always need a magical Crucible to defeat them.

[Donquijote and 59 others]

and the answer is always "the explanations behind ____________ is a great, ancient, superpowerful magic".

 

It's something cheap, if abused.

i would like to fill the blank space.

The elves probably did it,no a bald  elf with the messiah complex did it.

[Donquijote and 59 others]

DAI showed that Dragon Age used to be a High Fantasy setting with some Dark Fantasy elements that was changed irrevocably into a Dark Fantasy setting with some High Fantasy elements. The lingering remnants of that old world are starting to come back, however, and the new world is desperately fighting to survive as those vestiges try to bring the old world back.

Except that the lingering remnants of that old world aren't starting to come back specifically from the Dragon age,each age of the past had a crisis related to the surface of the traditions as well as the magic of the ancient world.

The archdemons of the past ages,the elves who founded the Dales,the magister trying to recover the secrets of the golden city.

At each age in Thedas there was some kind of resurface of the ancient world,even when Solas and FLemeth weren't around.

So it is a mistake to believe that is is something inherent to the Dragon age,since during the history of Thedas there were plenty of this ancient world remnants who tried to resurface included dragons who were mostly killed by the Phentagast family and dragon hunters..

[KaiserShep]

1) Flemeth in DA:O is presented as an old, powerful abomination living in a hut in the swamp. Not even close to a god/demi-god. She is also easily killable. This cannot be said for the Flemeth of DA2 and DA:I

Flemeth's survival is hinted at pretty strongly in Origins, and just about confirmed in Witch Hunt. So she was never truly easily killable; she only seemed that way.

[9TailsFox]

and the answer is always "the explanations behind ____________ is a great, ancient, superpowerful magic".

 

It's something cheap, if abused.