114 réponses à ce sujet

[Dai Grepher]

I disagree. Origins and its expansion and DLCs did everything Inquisition did first. Closing Fade Rifts, Blackmarsh. Alternate dimensions, Amgarrack. Eluvians, Witch Hunt. The great war between the evanuris, the gem trapped spirit in the elven ruins in Origins. And as for lyrium-based entities, um... Shale anyone? Aside from all that, Origins also had the taint, lyrium, the Black City, the Fade, etc.

 

So Dragon Age has always been "high fantasy". The thing that grounded it was the medieval theme that ran throughout. In Inquisition this theme is missing. The armors are not particularly medieval, there are almost no large buildings except those seen in Val Royeaux or the Arbor Wilds. These are not medieval themed. They are renaissance and elven fantasy themed, respectively. We only see Redcliffe Castle at a distance, and the interior is FUBAR'd when we get to explore it, so that's nothing to go by. Every other building was some wooden shack. Other than that, it's all wilderness. Rocks, grass, trees, rivers, dirt/sand, repeat. There's the occasional statue here and there, and some elven graffiti, but nothing that portrays the medieval feel.

 

The music is also a major contributor to the fantasy feel. A lot of upbeat and "beautiful" pieces compared to Origins' low and gritty compositions.

 

This is why Inquisition seems more "high fantasy". It lacks the grittiness, darkness, and necessary ugliness of Origins. But as far as storyline elements go, Origins had all the storylines from Inquisition years beforehand.

[KaiserShep]

I like how in DA Awakening, we close fade rifts by slashing at them with swords. That's some sharp ass blade ya got there, Warden. It cuts the very fabric of the universe.

[AlanC9]

So Dragon Age has always been "high fantasy". The thing that grounded it was the medieval theme that ran throughout. In Inquisition this theme is missing. The armors are not particularly medieval, there are almost no large buildings except those seen in Val Royeaux or the Arbor Wilds. These are not medieval themed. They are renaissance and elven fantasy themed, respectively.

I agree with the descriptions, but I don't see how medieval = grounded but Renaissance = not grounded.

[Aren]

1. No. You're completely wrong when it comes to Flemeth,, Flemeth in DA:I isn't more powerful than Flemeth in DA:O. 

 

 

We never saw Flemeth in combat in DAO until the fight against the Warden and in that occasion her soul was splitted in two and probably her powers were also diminished.

You do realize that Solas gained much from Flemeth because he absorbed all of her powers thus made for him possible to neutralize a commando of Qunari like if they were helpless children?

 Mythal at this point is just a fragment but during the battle between the warden and FLemeth,such fragment was even ulteriorly divided.

I can't imagine how powerful the Evanuris were at this point,they have on the paper the potential to wipe out the entire Orlesian army by themselves,thus make magic in dragon age too much exaggerated where one single individual  has the power to change the world..

[Medhia_Nox]

 

This is why Inquisition seems more "high fantasy". It lacks the grittiness, darkness, and necessary ugliness of Origins. But as far as storyline elements go, Origins had all the storylines from Inquisition years beforehand.

Agreed... but I think the quantity and to what extent they take center stage is radically different.

 

Plot rifts are always worse than fade rifts... and they multiply exponentially the more magic you use to explain everything. 

 

My point?

- Meredith was more interesting before "magic" took over her storyline.

- The elven rebellion was more interesting before "magic elf gods" took over their storyline.

- Thedas was more interesting before "magic absolutely everywhere" took over the theme of the world.

- Mages were more interesting before "magic lite" took away anything that made them different from a superhero.

- Spirits were more interesting before "magic tore open the Veil and now they're just a common sight". 

 

And yes... before someone just HAS to remind me this is just my opinion... it is just my opinion.

[Aren]

 

 DA:O was always high fantasy, from the moment we saw a mage cast a spell. 

 

 

 

Yes but DAI brought it to the next level of high fantasy,the breach,the Orb,the pocket dimensions the time travel and the ancient elves luring in their racial magical superiority.

All things pointed out that we haven't see nothing since all the others Evanuris as well as all the fade are still locked,this mean that the series is going to be even more and more high fantasy than it already was to the point of the realising of the dream world of wonderland into the reality and spirits,spirits,spirist everywhere.

I don't call it high fantasy i call it an exaggeration and an abuse of magic.

[KaiserShep]

Breaches in the fade aren't anything new; it's just that the one in Inquisition is the biggest and most widespread. Funnily, characters actually in the game also refer to this as an abuse of magic, so at least it's not lacking for self-awareness.

[German Soldier]

The difference between say Lord of the Rings and Dragon Age is that in the former the world is in fact becoming less magical.    In the past magic was far more prevalent with far more magical being roaming the world generally but most of these have gone or only exist in small enclaves, like the Ents, Rivendell, etc.  Most of what can be produced in the way of magic in LotR has its origins in the rings of power.   Elrond admits at the Council that he suspects that if the One Ring is destroyed, then the Three will lose their power as well and magic will go out of Middle Earth and the elves will go with it.   He says that the elves are prepared to make this sacrifice if it removes the evil.    At the end this comes true.   In a way it is Tolkein's way of explaining why our world no longer has magic.

 

By contrast Dragon Age is now working in the opposite direction.   True a lot of mages in Origins could throw fire balls but in a way that made it a level playing field.   In any case, because non-mages realised the advantage that this gave over them, that is why the mages were locked up and closely guarded, to prevent another Tevinter Imperium.   The mages there are reduced in power from of old and in any case have their own problem in a magic fearing political regime, but technically superior in mundane power, that has been embroiled in an ongoing war with them for several hundred years.   The elves claimed they were magical in the past and had a powerful, magical Empire, but this was gone and their status in the world had gone with it, even though some of them can still do magic.    The important difference with D&D is that whatever gods were in the setting no longer answered prayers, so you couldn't look to them for amazing powers.   So there was enough magic to make it interesting without thinking that one person, with a powerful artefact, could change the world.

 

That is the difference that DAI introduced.   One person with a powerful artefact could change the world.    It is only through an accidental series of events and misjudgement on the part of Solas that the world wasn't already burning.     Thedas hadn't always existed as Fade, Veil, Material World.     It wasn't one powerful magical empire that defeated another powerful magical empire by using different magic but one individual altering the nature of reality.    It may be possible to kill Solas by sticking a knife to the face but you have to get close enough first.    He can now turn individuals to stone permanently with just a thought.   He doesn't even have to be looking at them to do this.   He is also a Dreamer who can walk into your dreams and your mind and kill you there.  Plus he has control of a network of magical mirrors and the alternate reality that links them so he and his follows can travel anywhere in Thedas in days whilst the rest of us should take weeks.   And the orb wasn't a one off because Dorian has seen pictures of them in the Tevinter archives and Solas says they were likely acquired by those early Tevinter mages, not made by them.   So the likelihood is there are others out there.    

 

There is also the fact that we were told that it was the great sin of actually walking physically in the Fade, where people are not meant to go, that caused the corruption of the Magisters and that to get there they had to use half the lyrium supplies of Tevinter and the blood of hundreds of slaves.    Then the Inquisitor just waves their hand and suddenly we are walking physically in the Fade, all of us not just the Inquisitor, and with no adverse consequences.  Of course it turns out in the past the elves did this all the time because there was no Veil.    We also know that if you have enough magic you can even stop time in a localised area (the Tevinter mages in the Western Approach did it without a rift) or even travel through time.    Plus you can now levitate objects (big ones) provided you have enough magical power.

 

So whilst you can look back at the lore and say that the hints were there that this was possible, it does make it different from the setting we knew back in DAO.   There is no longer a level playing field with regard to magical ability and at the end of the day it is about one individual with the knowledge of how to alter reality if he can only acquire sufficient power again and you trying to stop them from doing so.   

Dragon age is clearly exaggerating with magic ot the point that single individuals can achieve by themselves absurd results with cheats,see the Inquisitor who achieved what Corypheus and the Architect achieved with the lyrium of the entire tevinter imperium and many blood sacrifices.

Not to mention the powers of that little elf girl in the movie who was commanding an army of high dragons thus make armies and soldiers of the world completely useless against those kind of uber mages.

I wonder how in the sequels will they justify gameplay wise the others class with the one of the mages,how can a rogue or a skilled warrior compare to mages with this constant magification of the setting?

[German Soldier]

I disagree. Origins and its expansion and DLCs did everything Inquisition did first. Closing Fade Rifts, Blackmarsh. Alternate dimensions, Amgarrack. Eluvians, Witch Hunt. The great war between the evanuris, the gem trapped spirit in the elven ruins in Origins. And as for lyrium-based entities, um... Shale anyone? Aside from all that, Origins also had the taint, lyrium, the Black City, the Fade, etc.

 

So Dragon Age has always been "high fantasy". The thing that grounded it was the medieval theme that ran throughout. In Inquisition this theme is missing. The armors are not particularly medieval, there are almost no large buildings except those seen in Val Royeaux or the Arbor Wilds. These are not medieval themed. They are renaissance and elven fantasy themed, respectively. We only see Redcliffe Castle at a distance, and the interior is FUBAR'd when we get to explore it, so that's nothing to go by. Every other building was some wooden shack. Other than that, it's all wilderness. Rocks, grass, trees, rivers, dirt/sand, repeat. There's the occasional statue here and there, and some elven graffiti, but nothing that portrays the medieval feel.

 

The music is also a major contributor to the fantasy feel. A lot of upbeat and "beautiful" pieces compared to Origins' low and gritty compositions.

 

This is why Inquisition seems more "high fantasy". It lacks the grittiness, darkness, and necessary ugliness of Origins. But as far as storyline elements go, Origins had all the storylines from Inquisition years beforehand.

It was not just that,in DAO the elven gods were just a myth now they are a reality.

There was not any of the things present in DAI,which is by far more high fantasy than DAO which already was high fantasy.

[Dai Grepher]

I like how in DA Awakening, we close fade rifts by slashing at them with swords. That's some sharp ass blade ya got there, Warden. It cuts the very fabric of the universe.

 

Justice empowered the weapons so they could close the rifts.
 

[Dai Grepher]

I agree with the descriptions, but I don't see how medieval = grounded but Renaissance = not grounded.

 

Because the Renaissance advanced society out of the medieval times, thus this makes Inquisition seem more modern than Origins.
 

[Dai Grepher]

 

It was not just that,in DAO the elven gods were just a myth now they are a reality.

There was not any of the things present in DAI,which is by far more high fantasy than DAO which already was high fantasy.

 

 

I'm not sure they were ever just a myth. I think most fans agreed that there was something going on there, but I think we all understood that they weren't actual gods, and many of their stories were absurdly impossible. Come to find out in Inquisition, that's exactly the case. They aren't gods, but they do exist.

 

It is similar to the Chantry account of the Black City. DA2 confirmed that the Chantry was correct, but this didn't make the game seem any more "high fantasy" than before when it was just seen as a theory.

 

Origins had "high fantasy" elements, but it was balanced by medieval elements that kept it dark and more realistic.

[Dai Grepher]

Agreed... but I think the quantity and to what extent they take center stage is radically different.

 

Plot rifts are always worse than fade rifts... and they multiply exponentially the more magic you use to explain everything. 

 

My point?

- Meredith was more interesting before "magic" took over her storyline.

- The elven rebellion was more interesting before "magic elf gods" took over their storyline.

- Thedas was more interesting before "magic absolutely everywhere" took over the theme of the world.

- Mages were more interesting before "magic lite" took away anything that made them different from a superhero.

- Spirits were more interesting before "magic tore open the Veil and now they're just a common sight". 

 

And yes... before someone just HAS to remind me this is just my opinion... it is just my opinion.

 

Ehh, we should separate fantasy storyline from forced storyline. Like how Orsino flips out even if you side with him, or Meredith's sudden drop into madness. They merely needed a way to make you fight Meredith (and Orsino, which they were going to have as optional at first). So handing her the "idiot ball", as I have seen others describe it here before, was the only way BioWare could think of to do this. I don't think this was "high fantasy", it was just forced storyline (and reused in Orsino's case), although with certain choices this can all be mitigated. Side against mages to make Orsino desperate. Go against Meredith on certain things before this, and spare the surrendering mages and Bethany, thus giving Meredith at least some basis for her paranoia.

 

It was? The elven rebellion seemed pretty dull and vague. We had always heard the "creators" warred with the Forgotten Ones, but I think making the "creators" war with each other enhanced this plot.

 

Not sure what you mean by "magic everywhere". I think veil fire is the only real addition of magic being found anywhere. If you mean mages, well, that's because of the Mage Templar War. Before, mages were confined to Circles. But there was plenty of magic elsewhere in DA:O. The Bracilian Forest. The Places of Power. Lake Calenhad around the Circle Tower (from which Calenhad's enchanted armor was made). The Wilds. The Deep Roads. The orphanage in the alienage. Heck, even the door keeping Anora trapped had a magical barrier.

 

Not sure what you mean with the superhero and "magic lite" comment.

 

Spirits did seem to lose their charm after about the 30th rift closure. They should have mixed it up better than just having demons spawn. The rifts should have also included various effects on the surrounding environment that the Inquisitor would have to manage and correct. I thought Cole was good. The Fade Spirit who copied Justinia was a little much. The spirit that watched over Telanna was good, although I disliked that it and the Spirit of Command shared the same model as the enemy Wraiths.

[In Exile]

I disagree. Origins and its expansion and DLCs did everything Inquisition did first. Closing Fade Rifts, Blackmarsh. Alternate dimensions, Amgarrack. Eluvians, Witch Hunt. The great war between the evanuris, the gem trapped spirit in the elven ruins in Origins. And as for lyrium-based entities, um... Shale anyone? Aside from all that, Origins also had the taint, lyrium, the Black City, the Fade, etc.

So Dragon Age has always been "high fantasy". The thing that grounded it was the medieval theme that ran throughout. In Inquisition this theme is missing. The armors are not particularly medieval, there are almost no large buildings except those seen in Val Royeaux or the Arbor Wilds. These are not medieval themed. They are renaissance and elven fantasy themed, respectively. We only see Redcliffe Castle at a distance, and the interior is FUBAR'd when we get to explore it, so that's nothing to go by. Every other building was some wooden shack. Other than that, it's all wilderness. Rocks, grass, trees, rivers, dirt/sand, repeat. There's the occasional statue here and there, and some elven graffiti, but nothing that portrays the medieval feel.

The music is also a major contributor to the fantasy feel. A lot of upbeat and "beautiful" pieces compared to Origins' low and gritty compositions.

This is why Inquisition seems more "high fantasy". It lacks the grittiness, darkness, and necessary ugliness of Origins. But as far as storyline elements go, Origins had all the storylines from Inquisition years beforehand.

I feel compelled to point out that DAO was not actually medieval in its aesthetic. It was a pastiche of a lot of different periods.

And it wasn't particularly gritty. It had one story about rape: the CE origin. And it had one very well done story about body horror: the deep roads. DAI actually copies all of the body horror of DAO with red lyrium. It just doesn't do a good job of showing it.

What DAI doesn't do well is show things visually, because it's very static. But it's about as tonically dark as DAO, which is to say "not very".

I'm not sure I agree with the music. What tracks do you have in mind?

[In Exile]

It was not just that,in DAO the elven gods were just a myth now they are a reality.
There was not any of the things present in DAI,which is by far more high fantasy than DAO which already was high fantasy.

I wouldn't say the beings whose existence is confirmed are "gods" anymore than Corypheus is a God or anymore than the Archon would be a god if he declared himself one, even though all these beings IRL would have an arguable claim to godhood.

[German Soldier]

I'm not sure they were ever just a myth. I think most fans agreed that there was something going on there, but I think we all understood that they weren't actual gods, and many of their stories were absurdly impossible. Come to find out in Inquisition, that's exactly the case. They aren't gods, but they do exist.

 

It is similar to the Chantry account of the Black City. DA2 confirmed that the Chantry was correct, but this didn't make the game seem any more "high fantasy" than before when it was just seen as a theory.

 

Origins had "high fantasy" elements, but it was balanced by medieval elements that kept it dark and more realistic.

DAI feel more magical than DAO was,not only because there are 3 supposed god into it (Flemeth,Solas,The elder one) but also because the protagonist is intrinsically tied with magic and there are several dragons,they aren't anymore this rare creatures.

Flemeth wasn't to any player a goddess just an abomination/dragon who used to have immortality because kidnapped young girls or her daughters.

Now she is a an uber legend mage worshipped as a god by immortal elves and her extensive knowledge is the product of only jesus know how many servants of her who dedicated to her their life.

In DAO there is no one comparable to Abelas,Solas,the titan in descent,the nightmare demon,at best we had the archdemon and wasn't so formidable,at least no more than an high dragon(the one of the temple was even more powerful) .

All those are magical beings far above the one in DAO.

 

I wouldn't say the beings whose existence is confirmed are "gods" anymore than Corypheus is a God or anymore than the Archon would be a god if he declared himself one, even though all these beings IRL would have an arguable claim to godhood.

Solas can be considered as such Irl,just like the greek gods were considered as gods.

[Wulfram]

I do think there's been something of a shift, but the setting was kinda boring to me before and now I'm finding it interesting.

[KaiserShep]

Personally I think the DAverse is more interesting the way it is now. Origins was good and all, but I think I had my fill of just having lots of backwater turnip doglords and orcs.

[SwobyJ]

Solas had sympathies with the Forgotten Ones? Where are you getting this? I'm genuinely curious.

 
Speculation tbh. Sure he may have only been playing the Forgotten Ones like he played the Evanuris, but if he was able to walk among the Forgotten Ones just as the Evanuris, I can see him having something he agreed with them on. (IMO it may have to do with them all being part of the fight against Titans?)
 

Fen'Harel was clever. He could walk among both clans of gods without fear, and both believed he was one of them. He went to each side, and told them the other had forged a terrible weapon, a blade that would end the war. He told the Creators it was forged in the heavens, and the Forgotten Ones, that it was hidden in the abyss. And when the gods went seeking it, he sealed them both in their realms forever. Now he alone is left in the world.

[Nimlowyn]

 
Speculation tbh. Sure he may have only been playing the Forgotten Ones like he played the Evanuris, but if he was able to walk among the Forgotten Ones just as the Evanuris, I can see him having something he agreed with them on. (IMO it may have to do with them all being part of the fight against Titans?)
 

Well he certainly seems to be upset with what the Wardens are doing. And the Old Gods may be the Forgotten Ones, or an aspect of them, or something. Of course, he may not be upset that they are being destroyed because he cares for them, but wants their power. or something...aggh so many questions! DA4 now please!

[SwobyJ]

I disagree. Origins and its expansion and DLCs did everything Inquisition did first. Closing Fade Rifts, Blackmarsh. Alternate dimensions, Amgarrack. Eluvians, Witch Hunt. The great war between the evanuris, the gem trapped spirit in the elven ruins in Origins. And as for lyrium-based entities, um... Shale anyone? Aside from all that, Origins also had the taint, lyrium, the Black City, the Fade, etc.

 

So Dragon Age has always been "high fantasy". The thing that grounded it was the medieval theme that ran throughout. In Inquisition this theme is missing. The armors are not particularly medieval, there are almost no large buildings except those seen in Val Royeaux or the Arbor Wilds. These are not medieval themed. They are renaissance and elven fantasy themed, respectively. We only see Redcliffe Castle at a distance, and the interior is FUBAR'd when we get to explore it, so that's nothing to go by. Every other building was some wooden shack. Other than that, it's all wilderness. Rocks, grass, trees, rivers, dirt/sand, repeat. There's the occasional statue here and there, and some elven graffiti, but nothing that portrays the medieval feel.

 

The music is also a major contributor to the fantasy feel. A lot of upbeat and "beautiful" pieces compared to Origins' low and gritty compositions.

 

This is why Inquisition seems more "high fantasy". It lacks the grittiness, darkness, and necessary ugliness of Origins. But as far as storyline elements go, Origins had all the storylines from Inquisition years beforehand.

 

I completely agree.

 

And besides, DAO made continued points that Ferelden and its troubles is the BACKWATER of Thedas. From the start. Its important elements are:

-current home of dwarves

-where Andraste started and where her ashes lay

-some smaller rebellious kingdom

-Flemeth hangs out there

-I dunno, some dalish chill too

-A couple tribes yo

 

DAO had the first Blight that centered on it, and that's possibly because of the Awakening explanation with the Architect instigating it.

 

Ferelden is, again the backwater. This isn't important in itself, but for the series and world, this means that its the pale, poor extent of what is REALLY out there - in geography, politics, magic, creatures, history.

 

Its the ORIGIN of the series story, but it had tendrils and precedent for all sorts of things in DAI, all over the place.

 

I get people were hoping every PLOT and SETTING would be so 'low' fantasy as DAO was (or seemed like it was, but really wasn't), but the lore itself has been nearly as crazy as DAI itself ended up.

 

Some things like time magic are nearly new though, the only things remotely hinting the possibility of it, is the relatively vague explanation of the Fade itself in DAO.

 

DAI upped power level but rarely was it done to a level that actually broke lore and narrative. Majority of rules set by DAO aren't just not broken, but even barely bent.

 

DAO started with precedent like magisters physically entering the Fade, for example. Our character in DAI successfully does it? Well so apparently did the elven gods, even if they're trapped there now. Oh and they traveled through realms in the eluvians, even if DAO only teases us with entering one only if we're a Warden romancing Morrigan.

 

 

I get complaints that DAI changes tone though. I don't agree fully with them, but I get them and I also hope that this same tone won't exist in DA4. But I think at least by now, people hanging on to the series can understand that the developers don't want every game to be Origins2, Origins3, Origins4. Its Dragon Age, and they may very well have a different vision.

 

Oh and to respond to the 'hope we don't fight OP mages all the time' stuff? I actually think that will end as a focus in DA4. The games shift topics from title to title IMO, and I think DA4 will continue this in terms of moving from the mage-god stuff into, well, some of the things we've seen more recently in the dwarf Descent DLC, and increased explanation of the Qun and Qunari origins and purpose. By that I mean that I think Bioware is quite aware that they can't go on fighting (what could be boiled down to being) powerful mages forever, but they're just in a phase of the series that inclines in that direction. You know, the 'magic is coming back' phase. Once its all back, then we can move on to even more interesting things (not necessarily just 'magical/mages').

[SwobyJ]

 

We never saw Flemeth in combat in DAO until the fight against the Warden and in that occasion her soul was splitted in two and probably her powers were also diminished.

You do realize that Solas gained much from Flemeth because he absorbed all of her powers thus made for him possible to neutralize a commando of Qunari like if they were helpless children?

 Mythal at this point is just a fragment but during the battle between the warden and FLemeth,such fragment was even ulteriorly divided.

I can't imagine how powerful the Evanuris were at this point,they have on the paper the potential to wipe out the entire Orlesian army by themselves,thus make magic in dragon age too much exaggerated where one single individual  has the power to change the world..

 

 

Andraste says what.

[KaiserShep]

Justice empowered the weapons so they could close the rifts.
 

 

Heh, forgot all about that. Goes to show how much I dislike Justice I can seldom remember much of what it says. 

[SwobyJ]

Heh, forgot all about that. Goes to show how much I dislike Justice I can seldom remember much of what it says. 

 

I love Justice!!!

 

Even though he's not my favorite kind of spirit, I LOVED even getting ANY spirit as a companion (Wynne and Anders doesn't count, mostly).

 

Cole takes over that now, but I still love seeing a Justice as my super tank in battle more.

[KaiserShep]

I love Justice!!!

 

Even though he's not my favorite kind of spirit, I LOVED even getting ANY spirit as a companion (Wynne and Anders doesn't count, mostly).

 

Cole takes over that now, but I still love seeing a Justice as my super tank in battle more.

 

Cole is much more interesting, but I can never bother to bring him on any missions whatsoever. Varric, Sera, Cassandra and Dorian dominate lot that I cycle through for most of the game.