Yah, the Renaissance was when Europeans decided the frequent bathing that happened in ancient times and medieval times was also suddenly bad because of what passed for medical science at the time decided it caused evil masma to enter the body and make people sick.
Also generally though its subjective dark fantasy tends to come from incorporating elements of the horror genre into fantasy not how the living conditions of the poor are depicted.
I don't see what actually changed; do you have examples? Sure, some stuff became more evident, but that isn't the same thing.
The biggest thing that comes to mind are topics like rape and torture (issues that appeared in Origins and The Calling and probably elsewhere). Gaider has apparently removed his blog but you've probably been around long enough to recall the episode on the forums before Inquisition's release about removing/editing content because a female writer pointed out that a situation in game could be construed as a form of rape.
Now, whether or not that edit was necessary or made the game better I'll never know, but to me it highlights a shift in BioWare's willingness to touch on that topic.
On torture, in all the pre-release speculation about Inquisition the topic came up here in the forums several times. After all, when one hears Inquisition they immediately draw parallels to real life inquisitions and what those entailed. These threads would get locked in short order and Gaider in particular seemed vehemently offended by the question on if torture would be in the game or not. I found this to be really odd, again, considering past material written by Gaider himself. Torture was never shown in the act in Origins but its aftermath played a pretty huge part in setting the scene for both Fort Drakon and Howe's estate.
Come Inquisition we see Leliana being "tortured" for useless information a year after the fact while fully armored. Compare this to the beginning of the Witcher 2 and this difference in presentation is staggering. BioWare would have been better off just tossing Leliana into a cell to be freed rather than attempt a torture scene they were unwilling to present in a way that didn't break immersion.
Now some other things...
Being evil and doing self-serving things...it's not really an option in Inquisition. Almost all decisions you can make are limited to the main story or companion quests. Emprise du Lion is the biggest exception with Imshael and the options are laughable.
Riches: 3 gems to vendor
Power: Sure, here's an amulet of power...for Cole
Virgins: He doesn't even give you virgins and I'll get to this point later
Origins let you do a bunch of assholish or just plain evil things for various motives and personal gain.
Sex and flirting - it's limited to your inner circle/companions and Harding. There's no brothel (in Val Royeaux c'mon!) and there's no flirting or bedding the various nobodies you come across in your travels like in Origins. There's also no stupid but funny sex option like the desire demon in Origins or Morinth in ME2. Imshael could have served that purpose but he didn't.
Then there's the "Sexuality in Thedas" codex and it's established as well that Orlesian nobles don't care if you sleep around outside of marriage. Homosexuality being completely accepted was something that was really introduced in DA2 and carried on into Inquisition. Zevran and Leliana in Origins didn't leave the same kind of impression.
And in regards to nobles and their paramours it's just too far beyond belief that issues of paternity aren't a concern.
So right there you've cut out two major sources of conflict, and dark fantasy is dark because it contains such conflicts and social issues.
And again, Orlais' portrayal was horrendous. They really dropped the ball there.
But, you know, the Renaissance was a real era too. It happened.
But the Renaissance represented an explosion of art, creativity, and prosperity. It was was hopeful time. Anything was possible, anything you could imagine, you could paint or compose. Medieval times were harsh, dangerous, and full of despair. That's why a medieval setting seems more realistic and dark, while a Renaissance setting seems more fantasy-like.
But the Renaissance represented an explosion of art, creativity, and prosperity. It was was hopeful time. Anything was possible, anything you could imagine, you could paint or compose. Medieval times were harsh, dangerous, and full of despair. That's why a medieval setting seems more realistic and dark, while a Renaissance setting seems more fantasy-like.
But the Renaissance represented an explosion of art, creativity, and prosperity. It was was hopeful time. Anything was possible, anything you could imagine, you could paint or compose. Medieval times were harsh, dangerous, and full of despair. That's why a medieval setting seems more realistic and dark, while a Renaissance setting seems more fantasy-like.
Poverty, warfare, religious and political persecution got worse during the Renaissance. It saw the wars of religion, brutal Turkish expansion into Europe, the rise of Machiavellian politics, the corruption of the papacy at the hands of the Italian nobility, a obsession with witchcraft that saw thousands hung or burned at the stake along with a obsession with werewolves in France that saw many people beheaded or imprisoned for being suspected werewolves and the end of regular and frequent bathing... at the hands of medical science no less.
Also I would note that it was wasn't the first Renaissance, there were no less than three during the medieval period and it didn't begin all in one place and in fact overlapped the medieval period. The famous Renaissance begin in Italy in the fourteenth century but didn't reach some countries like England until the the beginning 16th century and a few countries not until the 17th century.
The biggest thing that comes to mind are topics like rape and torture (issues that appeared in Origins and The Calling and probably elsewhere). Gaider has apparently removed his blog but you've probably been around long enough to recall the episode on the forums before Inquisition's release about removing/editing content because a female writer pointed out that a situation in game could be construed as a form of rape.
Now, whether or not that edit was necessary or made the game better I'll never know, but to me it highlights a shift in BioWare's willingness to touch on that topic.
On torture, in all the pre-release speculation about Inquisition the topic came up here in the forums several times. After all, when one hears Inquisition they immediately draw parallels to real life inquisitions and what those entailed. These threads would get locked in short order and Gaider in particular seemed vehemently offended by the question on if torture would be in the game or not. I found this to be really odd, again, considering past material written by Gaider himself. Torture was never shown in the act in Origins but its aftermath played a pretty huge part in setting the scene for both Fort Drakon and Howe's estate.
Come Inquisition we see Leliana being "tortured" for useless information a year after the fact while fully armored. Compare this to the beginning of the Witcher 2 and this difference in presentation is staggering. BioWare would have been better off just tossing Leliana into a cell to be freed rather than attempt a torture scene they were unwilling to present in a way that didn't break immersion.
Now some other things...
Being evil and doing self-serving things...it's not really an option in Inquisition. Almost all decisions you can make are limited to the main story or companion quests. Emprise du Lion is the biggest exception with Imshael and the options are laughable.
Riches: 3 gems to vendor
Power: Sure, here's an amulet of power...for Cole
Virgins: He doesn't even give you virgins and I'll get to this point later
Origins let you do a bunch of assholish or just plain evil things for various motives and personal gain.
Sex and flirting - it's limited to your inner circle/companions and Harding. There's no brothel (in Val Royeaux c'mon!) and there's no flirting or bedding the various nobodies you come across in your travels like in Origins. There's also no stupid but funny sex option like the desire demon in Origins or Morinth in ME2. Imshael could have served that purpose but he didn't.
Then there's the "Sexuality in Thedas" codex and it's established as well that Orlesian nobles don't care if you sleep around outside of marriage. Homosexuality being completely accepted was something that was really introduced in DA2 and carried on into Inquisition. Zevran and Leliana in Origins didn't leave the same kind of impression.
And in regards to nobles and their paramours it's just too far beyond belief that issues of paternity aren't a concern.
So right there you've cut out two major sources of conflict, and dark fantasy is dark because it contains such conflicts and social issues.
And again, Orlais' portrayal was horrendous. They really dropped the ball there.
But Gaider said, to his credit, that he would never remove a rape storyline out of fear of offending. It was a question of if it benefited the game or hindered it, and he believed that the rape storyline would have detracted from the main story. My theory on this is it may have been Thom Rainier's original storyline. There is a woman who sells flowers in Denerim who talks about how the Orlesian Chevaliers basically have a license to rape, and it was her brother who fought one and saved her from that fate. So maybe Thom was supposed to have done this when he first became a Chevalier, and that is the bad thing you fight out about him (other than the fact he isn't a Warden). But as it turned out he was approached through the game to kill one target, then realized there were children involved only after he was in too deep to pull out of it without repercussions from his own men. Having a remorseful war criminal on your team isn't as bad as having a rapist, who you might even be in a relationship with. But that's just my speculation.
Right. Leliana was tortured just as a matter of making her lose her faith in the Maker. I think the armor was a matter of game design and BioWare's laziness. Most of IHW is just terribly done. But DA:I had torture. The red templars, the people of Sahrnia, the slaves Vicinius had, Erastinies, the people of Olde Crestwood, and I remember some cave I think in the Western Approach or Forbidden Oasis where people were being strapped to tables and infused with red lyrium via some Tevinter kill-ray machine that was hanging over them. So I think this actually refutes your point about torture in the series. DA:I had at torture, as DA:O did.
I agree on the evil and self-serving things. At most, the evil things you do are just ignore people's problems and let them die or suffer.
My Inquisitor would have made the deal with Imshael had he offered knowledge on how to cure red lyrium.
It would have been funny to return to Skyhold and find a bunch of virgins in your room. None of which will agree to have sex, since they wouldn't be virgins anymore in that case.
Lack of booty calls also stinks. What a waste of divine blessing.
I don't think Sexuality in Thedas changed anything. Orlais still doesn't mind, Ferelden still doesn't like it, and Antiva is still full of Antivans.
I think the major letdown with Orlais was the Grand Game. It wasn't even a fraction as cutthroat and sinister as it was made out to be.
That doesn't really have much of a connection with reality. That's more the view the Renaissance had about the past that survived with us.
What?
Poverty, warfare, religious and political persecution got worse during the Renaissance. It saw the wars of religion, brutal Turkish expansion into Europe, the rise of Machiavellian politics, the corruption of the papacy at the hands of the Italian nobility, a obsession with witchcraft that saw thousands hung or burned at the stake along with a obsession with werewolves in France that saw many people beheaded or imprisoned for being suspected werewolves and the end of regular and frequent bathing... at the hands of medical science no less.
Also I would note that it was wasn't the first Renaissance, there were no less than three during the medieval period and it didn't begin all in one place and in fact overlapped the medieval period. The famous Renaissance begin in Italy in the fourteenth century but didn't reach some countries like England until the the beginning 16th century and a few countries not until the 17th century.
Maybe, but it isn't what is primarily remembered about it. And even in spite of those things, that era itself was generally seen as better. Compare to the medieval times, which still had wars and persecution and superstition.
I know the dark ages had its own advance of science and knowledge, but it isn't what is primarily remembered about it. Think of these in terms of themes. Inquisition is more artsy, Origins is more brutish.
What?
Maybe, but it isn't what is primarily remembered about it. And even in spite of those things, that era itself was generally seen as better. Compare to the medieval times, which still had wars and persecution and superstition.
I know the dark ages had its own advance of science and knowledge, but it isn't what is primarily remembered about it. Think of these in terms of themes. Inquisition is more artsy, Origins is more brutish.
You addressed the point head on - the idea of a "dark age" was, actually, historical revisionism when the idea of a forlorn longing for Rome (and Greece) came about in the Renaissance. The era saw itself as better, but that doesn't actually mean it's better.
You can create an incredibly gritty modern game, far gritter than a medieval set game. Gritty has nothing to do with the level of technology.
Do you have the same "WTF" feeling?
No.
Gaider has apparently removed his blog but you've probably been around long enough to recall the episode on the forums before Inquisition's release about removing/editing content because a female writer pointed out that a situation in game could be construed as a form of rape.
The content was edited because it came off as rapey when it wasn't intended to. Gaider was very clear that if they had intended for it to be that way, it would have stayed that way.
Its one of the reasons why historians tend to avoid use the term dark ages in history anymore to refer to even the early middle ages. Of course looking at accounts it was only certain while artists, writers, and patrons involved in the Renaissance cultural movement thought they were living in a better age many others apparently didn't think they were living in a golden age and were concerned about the increasing social ills. Still its a matter of reality versus perceptions,
I do admit I find it amusing that all the later writers of the Enlightenment and Renaissance who looked down on the people of the middle ages when at least back then people bathed regularly and didn't just think that having clean cloths and wearing perfume made one clean.
You addressed the point head on - the idea of a "dark age" was, actually, historical revisionism when the idea of a forlorn longing for Rome (and Greece) came about in the Renaissance. The era saw itself as better, but that doesn't actually mean it's better.
You can create an incredibly gritty modern game, far gritter than a medieval set game. Gritty has nothing to do with the level of technology.
That has nothing to do with what I'm discussing. 
Its one of the reasons why historians tend to avoid use the term dark ages in history anymore to refer to even the early middle ages. Of course looking at accounts it was only certain while artists, writers, and patrons involved in the Renaissance cultural movement thought they were living in a better age many others apparently didn't think they were living in a golden age and were concerned about the increasing social ills. Still its a matter of reality versus perceptions,
I do admit I find it amusing that all the later writers of the Enlightenment and Renaissance who looked down on the people of the middle ages when at least back then people bathed regularly and didn't just think that having clean cloths and wearing perfume made one clean.
Okay, but you understand my point about perceptions and themes? Even if Inquisition is set in the same timeframe, it still carries itself as artsy or more fantasy type than Origins which carries itself as dark and gritty. That was my only point here.
I believe this is a tendency in most of BW games (perhaps in many other games too).
In BG we begin our adventures by tracking down an organization of iron smuggler and by the end of ToB we are ascending a throne of a god.
In NWN we begin our tale by finding a cure for an ephidemy and by the end of HotU we are fighting demons in hell
Many games begin with low fantasy settings and in the long way switch to high fantasy setting (or what I am used to call "over-epic"). This is why I have always appreciated DA2 narrative approach, and even if it was a commercial flop (for other reasons, though) I'd like they give another try to that kind of narration.
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