167 réponses à ce sujet

[straykat]

Do you mean ignoring most of the crew you'd built up and sweeping Cerberus aside even if your Shep liked them?  If so then yeah, I get that.  Tho personally I like the fact that ME3 looked back to ME1 more than ME2, but I can understand your point of view.   It's a slap in the face for those who loved 2 more than 1 I guess.

 

They could have started out with a section where you could role-play that you were grateful to Cerberus for fighting the collectors.  That you felt some loyalty to them, then when you met TIM you realised he was a lost cause and you'd have to work with the alliance even if you didn't like them anymore.  That would have helped.  I can't understand why a renegade Shep isn't kicking and screaming at being locked up for 6 months 'because bureaucracy' but by the way the world is ending!  I'd like to be super annoyed at the alliance with at least one of my Shepards.

 

I didn't like Cerberus, no. But prefer that crew. And Jack was my romance. It was lame in ME3. And if I have any "bro" character, it's Grunt. But probably more like a little bro that embarrasses you sometimes and you can't keep in line.

[ArcadiaGrey]

I didn't like Cerberus, no. But prefer that crew. And Jack was my romance. It was lame in ME3. And if I have any "bro" character, it's Grunt. But probably more like a little bro that embarrasses you sometimes and you can't keep in line.

 

Yeah, that would suck.  Jack is awesome, I played a few arena matches with her just so we could hang out.  

[fraggle]

Small world!  It was the same for me.  My first ever foray in to being anything other than nice was my first ME run.  I decided to try and be more assertive, and having Jen Hale voice femShep makes that really fun.  So I went for rene-gon.  Nice to aliens and a good guy, but hated politicians, had a short fuse and was willing to make sacrifices for the greater good.  It's so much easier to push someone through a window than arrest them, you save on the paperwork. 

 

It was honestly inspiring, I loved being much more assertive and confident than I am irl.  It set me off on a journey of playing all sorts of characters.  Coupled with Bioware's different choices written through the games and I started dreaming up lots of different Wardens/Hawkes/Sheps.  Now I find it way more fun to be them than to be me.  In fact the one DA:O world that I don't plan to take in to DAI is the first where I played as myself.  Apparently I'm nowhere near as interesting as the new characters I rpg-ed.  

 

I've saved Kaidan twice, now it's Ash's turn.  First time I'm gonna save her cause I wanna bang, okay?  But on my next Shep...well she'll prefer Kaidan but will have sent Ash with the Salarians.  She'll be such a bleeding heart paragon that she can't bear to let them die so has to reluctantly go help them, with Kaidan dying in the process.  I'll then play the rest of game hating Ash for surviving and being super mean to her.  Is it bad that I'm looking forward to seeing how that works out?

 

Now I'm addicted to there being a cost and no world ever being perfect.   Only 1 out of my 4 Sheps leaves the SM with every squad member alive.  The pay off is that the whole crew dies, including Dr.Chakwas, which breaks her heart as they were super close.  But I like the idea that the victims you lose along the way are sitting on your shoulders weighing you down, but also pushing you on, to the end.  And I wanna see what happens when each individual person dies.  Except Garrus.  He ain't ever dying cause I heard that it makes no damn difference.  In that case I won't bother, I don't want to know that he's just decorative and not actually a crucial part of the plot in ME3.  

 

Haha, I specifically chose FemShep because I thought I could pull off being more Renegade/emotionally unstable/cruel when playing as a woman, and she was very good for that

 

Haha, I totally get what you say. First time playing I pretty much always play how I would react and answer, and I like that too! But ever since I started with all these different characters, I get much more out of it, it's hilarious at times

 

Banging Ash, yeah, I can get that, that was my current Shep's goal as well (only to abandon her in ME2 for Jack).

I love what you plan with hating on Ash for surviving, that sounds like some great stuff! And no, it's not bad that you look forward to it, I tend to do the same things sometimes (and I'd like to see how this plays out so maybe I'll go that route soon as well).

 

So much this, yes! I love sacrifices, people left behind, feeling this war taking a toll on Shepard. I like fluff, but I learned I enjoy the drama more, for some weird reason.

I've yet to kill off Dr. Chakwas, but parts of the crew already died in my playthroughs

Yeah, Garrus dead is interesting only for two occasions imo. Seeing Liara during the whole Menae mission and Traynor checking out your ass as FemShep instead of Garrus telling you to go sleep, hahaha. But both are rather short and you also miss out on some other things if he's not there, so... I'm not sure I'll ever leave him behind as well.

 

You're making me want to fire up ME3 and figure out where the dreams are in the save files.....Miranda, Thane and Legion died in the SM so I wanna hear them now.  Or maybe I can be lazy and Youtube it.  

 

You might be interested in this

Spoiler

 

It was a really great idea but it sucks that it's in a section everyone hates. Seeing that kid is worse after seeing the Catalyst take his form and nobody likes slow down sections. If you could move at full speed or if they were just cutscenes, I think they might get hated less.

 

I feel like a freak for liking so much that others hate with a passion. I love the nightmare sections, haha. When I play I'd love to run around in the forest much longer than I usually do (because I also want to continue the game of course), just to listen to dead squadmates and also that haunting music in the background. Great atmosphere. I get it though why people hate it.

 

I interpreted it as the intelligence trying to get into Shep's head by using an ickle kid that he happened to see die.  Somehow it knew Shep felt bad about the kid so used it to manipulate him....which just made me mad and I dug my heels in.  Were we supposed to feel sorry for the kid?  Or, like me, are we supposed to be mad that we're being manipulated in such an obvious way?

 

I'm also fairly sure that the Catalyst takes on the kid's appearance to appeal to Shepard to trust it. I don't actually mind the form as much, because we don't need to trust it if we don't want to, and I picked Destroy so far for all my Sheps anyway, but yeah... the kid, I actually dislike (I never care for kids in videogames, they are annoying). Even though I'm also somewhat okay with that it represents the trigger for the nightmares. I guess we can't control what affects us, and I think there can be a lot of random crap triggering certain things, so that is still okay-ish for me. I've also read in a post that people/soldiers with PTSD often dream in those colours and I can get behind that and see why BW used it. Running after something Shepard just cannot save, something they can't change. It's pretty sad, it's just too bad that it had to be a frigging kid.

[The Real Pearl #2]

that video...

[ArcadiaGrey]

Haha, I specifically chose FemShep because I thought I could pull off being more Renegade/emotionally unstable/cruel when playing as a woman, and she was very good for that

 

Haha, I totally get what you say. First time playing I pretty much always play how I would react and answer, and I like that too! But ever since I started with all these different characters, I get much more out of it, it's hilarious at times

 

Banging Ash, yeah, I can get that, that was my current Shep's goal as well (only to abandon her in ME2 for Jack).

I love what you plan with hating on Ash for surviving, that sounds like some great stuff! And no, it's not bad that you look forward to it, I tend to do the same things sometimes (and I'd like to see how this plays out so maybe I'll go that route soon as well).

 

So much this, yes! I love sacrifices, people left behind, feeling this war taking a toll on Shepard. I like fluff, but I learned I enjoy the drama more, for some weird reason.

I've yet to kill off Dr. Chakwas, but parts of the crew already died in my playthroughs

Yeah, Garrus dead is interesting only for two occasions imo. Seeing Liara during the whole Menae mission and Traynor checking out your ass as FemShep instead of Garrus telling you to go sleep, hahaha. But both are rather short and you also miss out on some other things if he's not there, so... I'm not sure I'll ever leave him behind as well.

 

I've read so many posts from ppl saying they can't bear to be mean, that they always save Connor or always side with the mages etc... It's refreshing to see someone who plays the same way I do.  Doing hard things sometimes and playing on to see the consequences and having different personalities, it really is a wonderful way to experience both games.  I wish more folks would try it.

 

Jennifer Hale is just so good at being a bad-ass.   I really feel for all those players who've only ever been maleShep, or a nice femShep.  You're missing out guys, you really are.

[RedCaesar97]

I've read so many posts from ppl saying they can't bear to be mean, that they always save Connor or always side with the mages etc... It's refreshing to see someone who plays the same way I do.  Doing hard things sometimes and playing on to see the consequences and having different personalities, it really is a wonderful way to experience both games.  I wish more folks would try it.

 

Jennifer Hale is just so good at being a bad-ass.   I really feel for all those players who've only ever been maleShep, or a nice femShep.  You're missing out guys, you really are.

 

Totally agree. i can never understand the "I always play MaleShep/FemShep" or "I always play Paragon". (Or even "I always play Soldier" or "I never play <insert class here>".) So many things you will miss only doing that. If you have a game -- or in this case, a series of games -- that lets you influence the story, why not explore a bunch of the options in different playthroughs?

 

I always like mixing it up. It keeps the games fresh and at least somewhat interesting. I would have gotten sick of Mass Effect years ago if I did not constantly change things up.

[ArcadiaGrey]

Totally agree. i can never understand the "I always play MaleShep/FemShep" or "I always play Paragon". (Or even "I always play Soldier" or "I never play <insert class here>".) So many things you will miss only doing that. If you have a game -- or in this case, a series of games -- that lets you influence the story, why not explore a bunch of the options in different playthroughs?

 

I always like mixing it up. It keeps the games fresh and at least somewhat interesting. I would have gotten sick of Mass Effect years ago if I did not constantly change things up.

 

Yup yup yup yup and yup.  I've lost count of the amount of times I thought I didn't like something in a game until I actually gave it a go and realised I was wrong.

 

There was a woman on YT who said she'd played Bioware games a lot but always romanced Alistair, Cullen and Kaidan.  Why?  I have favourites of course, but if I didn't decide to try lots of different options then I would never have made myself romance Zevran.  I didn't like him at all, wasn't into it, but ppl said it was great so I gave him a chance.  It was awesome and now I have a soft spot for the randy Antivan.

I didn't like dwarves, have never liked dwarves, but made a Dwarven Noble anyway and it ended up being one of my favourite playthrus so far (and now I have a soft spot for dwarves too   ).

 

That was a lesson to me.  If there's a choice, race, class, faction or LI I'm not really into, try it anyway.  You never know, it could be great, and if you love Bioware games then why wouldn't you want to experience all the writing that there is on offer?  

 

Just once try saving Loghain and taking him round Ferelden, chatting as much as you can.  

Just once get super pissed at the Alliance for forsaking your memory and go full throttle Cerberus supporter.

Just once leave Redcliffe to die because you're a super important busy Warden and then experience what happens next. 

 

None of those things make you a monster, there is almost always a justified or unfortunate reason to do all of them.  And it can be powerful storytelling.

[Natureguy85]

I interpreted it as the intelligence trying to get into Shep's head by using an ickle kid that he happened to see die.  Somehow it knew Shep felt bad about the kid so used it to manipulate him....which just made me mad and I dug my heels in.  Were we supposed to feel sorry for the kid?  Or, like me, are we supposed to be mad that we're being manipulated in such an obvious way?  

 

The problem with the scene is that it is less an attempt to manipulate Shepard and more of an attempt to manipulate the player. Shepard reacts to the child's death and shows a bit of reaction to the dreams, but shows absolutely no reaction when confronted with the holoprojection of this very same child.

 

 

You know, I would be even more emotionally invested if the starchild turned out to be mini version of the ones you left on Virmire. The boy would look more like Mini-Kaidan with dark curls or a little girl who look like a mini-Ashley (dunno why they can't use the little sunflower girl from the trailer). Kinda wasted.

 

But I head canon-ed the nightmare boy was Shepard's deepest desire to save her future in the form a phantom son. And that Harbinger pick up that desire and try to fool her into choosing the future it wanted. Like, daring to kill the little dream boy or save him. 

 

That's an interesting idea to use a child still. I had always considered making it an adult version. And not just the Starchild. Chasing the person left on Virmire in the dreams would have meant a lot more, just like how I got a little emotional punch when they flashed pictures of that person and Presley at the Normandy Crash Site in ME2.

 

Something like this, from back when LOST was good. Jack was flying home from Australia with his dead father in a coffin.

 

 

 

 
I think these things are up to your headcanon. I cannot say what the truth is. Maybe they actually want us to speculate. I've always seen it as a cheap move to make me care. I think that what they tried to express, though, was that Shepard might be showing signs of post-traumatic stress disorder which I've seen people theorise about here, as well. Other people said the child represents Earth or life on Earth that Shepard feels she abandoned or couldn't save. Fans of the Indoctrination Theory see the child as a sign of Shepard's gradual indoctrination. I think the important thing is that your theory is as valid as others'. I don't think we have been given a clear answer. So believe in what works for you.

 

And, you can speed it up on PC, actually.  I don't know about consoles, but those are less likely. You just need to enable the in-game console which basically just consists of dropping some files into your Mass Effect 3\Binaries\Win32 folder, and then, in the game, you use the tilde key (~) to enter the console and use the "slomo" command. For example, "slomo 2" (for 200% speed), "slomo 3" (for 300% speed), "slomo 0.5" (for 50% speed), etc. 

 

The idea with the niece is much cuter, though.   Or maybe evil, I can't decide.

 

They definitely wanted us to speculate. It says so in Walters' notes. However, I disagree that all things are equally valid. While something minor and subtle like aoibhealfae's idea of what is going on in Shepard's head is fine, IT is not because it goes beyond that and makes claims about the plot and things that are actually happening rather than what a character is thinking about.

 

 

I feel like a freak for liking so much that others hate with a passion. I love the nightmare sections, haha. When I play I'd love to run around in the forest much longer than I usually do (because I also want to continue the game of course), just to listen to dead squadmates and also that haunting music in the background. Great atmosphere. I get it though why people hate it.

 

 

I'm also fairly sure that the Catalyst takes on the kid's appearance to appeal to Shepard to trust it. I don't actually mind the form as much, because we don't need to trust it if we don't want to, and I picked Destroy so far for all my Sheps anyway, but yeah... the kid, I actually dislike (I never care for kids in videogames, they are annoying). Even though I'm also somewhat okay with that it represents the trigger for the nightmares. I guess we can't control what affects us, and I think there can be a lot of random crap triggering certain things, so that is still okay-ish for me. I've also read in a post that people/soldiers with PTSD often dream in those colours and I can get behind that and see why BW used it. Running after something Shepard just cannot save, something they can't change. It's pretty sad, it's just too bad that it had to be a frigging kid.

 

Well the lines from the dead squadmates are the good part. But chasing a kid we don't have any investment in when we have these dead characters we care about was foolish. See the above video clip.

[Vanilka]

I like to experiment myself... when I'm ready. On the other hand, people play how they enjoy to play. If they prefer to perfect their ideal playthrough, why not. I tend to replay my favourite Shepard, Warden, Inquisitor, etc. just because I really enjoy their playthroughs that much. It's like watching your favourite movie. I think nobody plays the same, too. That's the beauty of BioWare games. Even if a bunch of people keep replaying the same characters, it's never going to be the same character when compared with one another. My favourite Shepard is dramatically different from my friend's. The content is not wasted.

 

I am in favour of experimenting, though. I'm currently replaying DAI with a human male rogue that's all sass and jokes and favours the templars (and I've really wanted to romance Cassandra) after playing my (pet) elven female mage that was all duty and candy, fell for Cullen, and was rather neutral on mages and templars because that's a human issue. Experimenting can be a lot of fun, but I think that different people simply use their games in different ways. For me it sometimes even backfired. I once made an irresponsible human mage that didn't want anything to do with being a Warden and stopping the Blight. Additionally, she got her panties into twist really easily. God, how I hated that b(cough). Dropped her somewhere in the middle. Never went back. There's only limited amount of irrational bullshit I can have my character do and still enjoy playing them. The fun part is, what's "irrational bullshit" to me is gold to somebody else.

[Vanilka]

They definitely wanted us to speculate. It says so in Walters' notes. However, I disagree that all things are equally valid. While something minor and subtle like aoibhealfae's idea of what is going on in Shepard's head is fine, IT is not because it goes beyond that and makes claims about the plot and things that are actually happening rather than what a character is thinking about.

 

I can't say I disagree. I've got to be honest here. I don't know much about the Indoctrination Theory besides the fact it's about Shepard fighting slow indoctrination and the fact it's supposed to culminate after Shepard gets hit by the beam. I've only watched Angry Joe's short summary of it and I think that it grasps at straws a little too hard. I haven't educated myself beyond that because I don't think it works. My point merely was that since we don't have a clear answer, that scene is open to interpretation. I might have expressed myself clumsily. 

[ArcadiaGrey]

The problem with the scene is that it is less an attempt to manipulate Shepard and more of an attempt to manipulate the player. Shepard reacts to the child's death and shows a bit of reaction to the dreams, but shows absolutely no reaction when confronted with the holoprojection of this very same child.

 

Oh yeah.....now why did you have to point that out, that's all l'm gonna see now.  

Seriously tho, you've got a point.  If he/she had said 'oh bloody hell not you again' or something it would have made more sense.

 

I like to experiment myself... when I'm ready. On the other hand, people play how they enjoy to play. If they prefer to perfect their ideal playthrough, why not. I tend to replay my favourite Shepard, Warden, Inquisitor, etc. just because I really enjoy their playthroughs that much. It's like watching your favourite movie. I think nobody plays the same, too. That's the beauty of BioWare games. Even if a bunch of people keep replaying the same characters, it's never going to be the same character when compared with one another. My favourite Shepard is dramatically different from my friend's. The content is not wasted.

 

I am in favour of experimenting, though. I'm currently replaying DAI with a human male rogue that's all sass and jokes and favours the templars (and I've really wanted to romance Cassandra) after playing my (pet) elven female mage that was all duty and candy, fell for Cullen, and was rather neutral on mages and templars because that's a human issue. Experimenting can be a lot of fun, but I think that different people simply use their games in different ways. For me it sometimes even backfired. I once made an irresponsible human mage that didn't want anything to do with being a Warden and stopping the Blight. Additionally, she got her panties into twist really easily. God, how I hated that b(cough). Dropped her somewhere in the middle. Never went back. There's only limited amount of irrational bullshit I can have my character do and still enjoy playing them. The fun part is, what's "irrational bullshit" to me is gold to somebody else.

 

Good point, I've been thinking of doing that myself.  My first Shep was an amazing playthrough for me but I haven't yet taken her thru to ME3.   I'm very tempted to start over and do the whole trilogy so I can experience 1+2 with her again.

 

All my characters have to have something about them I like, they can be kind or funny, smart or dumb as a brick, but I have to be able to like them for something so I can root for them even when they make a dodgy decision.  I have yet to play a truly bad guy (I have just started a terrible Shep tho, so I'll see how that goes).

 

I agree with what you said.  On the one hand I've come to believe that it's your game, you should do whatever you damn well want with it.  Whatever makes you happy go with it, it's your spare time after all.  But on the other hand, knowing all the cool options and dialogues and outcomes that are available it makes me sad to read people on forums saying things like 'I click paragon for everything and only do the nice stuff'.  It's such a waste.

 

I would always urge people to step a little out of their normal routine and try something new as I never did that.  I was a good guy.  ALL THE TIME.  When I eventually slapped myself out of it and tried a character who wasn't me irl it was so so so wonderful and kind of....liberating to not be myself for once.  Now I want to do all the things, so I can't help but feel sad when someone says they could never do something that I know is actually fantastic because I just tried it myself.

 

Take Bull.  When the game came out I was like 'eww' but then in forums ppl waxed lyrical about the romance.  So I just did it.  And now I'm in love with the guy, it was freaking amazing and not just in a physical way (which I thought was what they all meant) but on a deep emotional level.  He's a wonderful bloke.  And now I want someone just as lovely to get me a dragon's tooth and call me Kadan....wait I've gone off on a tangent....what were we talking about?  

[fraggle]

I've read so many posts from ppl saying they can't bear to be mean, that they always save Connor or always side with the mages etc... It's refreshing to see someone who plays the same way I do.  Doing hard things sometimes and playing on to see the consequences and having different personalities, it really is a wonderful way to experience both games.  I wish more folks would try it.

 

Jennifer Hale is just so good at being a bad-ass.   I really feel for all those players who've only ever been maleShep, or a nice femShep.  You're missing out guys, you really are.

 

I also used to be like that in Dragon Age. Since I played it first and long before I even touched ME, I always stuck to mostly the same options, and never actually really "built" a character I played, it was just a few definitions here and there, and a bit of background story (which were all kinda lame ).

Next time I play DA, I will also try to mix things up more, since that is much more fun to me now.

 

Totally agree. i can never understand the "I always play MaleShep/FemShep" or "I always play Paragon". (Or even "I always play Soldier" or "I never play <insert class here>".) So many things you will miss only doing that. If you have a game -- or in this case, a series of games -- that lets you influence the story, why not explore a bunch of the options in different playthroughs?

 

I always like mixing it up. It keeps the games fresh and at least somewhat interesting. I would have gotten sick of Mass Effect years ago if I did not constantly change things up.

 

I'm glad I got away from this "I always play Paragon". Sure it was tough at times (I still can't get over the fact I didn't give that poor salarian medi-gel during Thane's recruitment mission ), because sometimes it just feels horrible, but all these wonderful renegade options can be justified too. I also was one of those "I guess I'll never play FemShep", I only wanted to try her out once, but my run changed my mind completely, fortunately.

And you are really right in how it keeps things fresh, and I guess that's why I'm currently also not yet sick of ME. Add to all the different dialogue options the 6 classes and way too many talents/powers that one can use and can keep you busy for years, and still with joy

 

Well the lines from the dead squadmates are the good part. But chasing a kid we don't have any investment in when we have these dead characters we care about was foolish. See the above video clip.

 

Maybe they wanted someone neutral, someone outside the squad because some people also don't like neither Kaidan or Ash (I guess not, my bet is still on the "innocence" of a kid as the reason), but agreed. It should've still had a bigger impact on Shepard instead of an unknown kid, and like you, I also liked the Normandy wreckage backflashs. Ah well, it's too late now anyway, but maybe they learned something out of it.

(Also, yay Lost )

 

I like to experiment myself... when I'm ready. On the other hand, people play how they enjoy to play. If they prefer to perfect their ideal playthrough, why not. I tend to replay my favourite Shepard, Warden, Inquisitor, etc. just because I really enjoy their playthroughs that much. It's like watching your favourite movie. I think nobody plays the same, too. That's the beauty of BioWare games. Even if a bunch of people keep replaying the same characters, it's never going to be the same character when compared with one another. My favourite Shepard is dramatically different from my friend's. The content is not wasted.

 

I am in favour of experimenting, though. I'm currently replaying DAI with a human male rogue that's all sass and jokes and favours the templars (and I've really wanted to romance Cassandra) after playing my (pet) elven female mage that was all duty and candy, fell for Cullen, and was rather neutral on mages and templars because that's a human issue. Experimenting can be a lot of fun, but I think that different people simply use their games in different ways. For me it sometimes even backfired. I once made an irresponsible human mage that didn't want anything to do with being a Warden and stopping the Blight. Additionally, she got her panties into twist really easily. God, how I hated that b(cough). Dropped her somewhere in the middle. Never went back. There's only limited amount of irrational bullshit I can have my character do and still enjoy playing them. The fun part is, what's "irrational bullshit" to me is gold to somebody else.

 

I can totally understand this "being ready" thing. I wasn't ready to do Renegade stuff a long time, I never played an evilish guy in DA. Only now with ME I stepped out of it and I never even thought I could leave Kaidan at Virmire, but I did now. I too think that people should try out stuff whenever they feel like it, it's their choice after all.

All I'll say is, if something that I changed up was fun to me, it doesn't mean it's fun for the next person. Some people don't like losing people or not playing a hero type and that's completely fine. We all are different anyway and react to things differently.

 

It's too bad that you had no fun with your Warden, to me it sounds really intriguing and could be something I'd like to try out too the next time I play DAO Maybe with romancing Alistair because he also is not ready for this whole blight thing and would establish a great connection, and they could influence each other a bit.

 

All my characters have to have something about them I like, they can be kind or funny, smart or dumb as a brick, but I have to be able to like them for something so I can root for them even when they make a dodgy decision.  I have yet to play a truly bad guy (I have just started a terrible Shep tho, so I'll see how that goes).

 

I agree with what you said.  On the one hand I've come to believe that it's your game, you should do whatever you damn well want with it.  Whatever makes you happy go with it, it's your spare time after all.  But on the other hand, knowing all the cool options and dialogues and outcomes that are available it makes me sad to read people on forums saying things like 'I click paragon for everything and only do the nice stuff'.  It's such a waste.

 

Same here. Even with my FemShep, I came to like so many things about her, despite mistrusting aliens at the beginning and doing some really bad stuff, just because I liked her background story so much (Colonist/Ruthless is a great combination). But I admit it could've backfired too. Funnily enough this Shepard was only supposed to be a test, a tryout character, but I ended up loving it way too much, who would've thought

 

I agree, people should play how they want. And I can understand playing the same thing over and over, because if it makes you happy, that's a good sign.

I'm fairly sure many people play videogames to experience some good time and because they want to escape the real world in a way, so I get if they want to have the best possible outcome. I just happen to like non-happy endings and drama, but that doesn't apply to everyone. And I went after the perfect endings too for a long time, because if I have this option, I will likely do that, especially if it's the first 1 or 2 runs. But now it's time to change up things for me in both DA and ME

[Vanilka]

I can totally understand this "being ready" thing. I wasn't ready to do Renegade stuff a long time, I never played an evilish guy in DA. Only now with ME I stepped out of it and I never even thought I could leave Kaidan at Virmire, but I did now. I too think that people should try out stuff whenever they feel like it, it's their choice after all.
All I'll say is, if something that I changed up was fun to me, it doesn't mean it's fun for the next person. Some people don't like losing people or not playing a hero type and that's completely fine. We all are different anyway and react to things differently.
 
It's too bad that you had no fun with your Warden, to me it sounds really intriguing and could be something I'd like to try out too the next time I play DAO Maybe with romancing Alistair because he also is not ready for this whole blight thing and would establish a great connection, and they could influence each other a bit.

 
True. It takes a bit of courage to try the more cruel or seemingly cruel options. Especially if you don't revel in being mean in games. Some people enjoy exactly that, though. I think renegade Shepard is rather popular around here. And renegade is not just about being mean anyway. Sometimes it's about not being a doormat. Sometimes it's about not being stupid. Sometimes the morality just doesn't work. Take the choice between retwriting and destroying the heretics. I believe destroying them is more ethical. (Just my opinion. Not saying I'm right.) Yet I get a ton of renegade points for it. And, to be completely honest, I don't mind because I don't play a paragon or renegade. I play a character of my own. Either way, I understand that it's not easy to try things you find cruel. It's really cool that you find a reason for your character to do them and enjoy the experience in the long run. It really must result in a unique playthrough each time.
 
For me it's mostly about being able to stop doing the thing I enjoy most. When I play a game and I have so much fun during a playthrough and I grow very attached to my character and their friends and love interest... and then... I should do it differently. Well, it's hard. I never play as myself because I don't find that interesting. None of my characters looks or acts like me. And I don't believe I could just go and insert myself into e.g. a Dalish elf or a dwarven commoner because our experiences and lives are so insanely different it just wouldn't work. And I wouldn't want to. But I admit I tend to have a type. I like goody two shoes characters that have a strong sense of responsibility, that are proactive and that wish to do what's right. That's why characters like Cassandra will always be my absolute favourites. And that's also my downfall. I want to play a character that inspires me, that I can be proud of, a character that cares, that will keep going no matter how much it hurts. A power fantasy, perhaps? Not characters that are perfect, because there is hardly any clear right or wrong in BW games anyway and I like to build my characters around their background, environment, experiences, etc., have them make mistakes, but characters that do their best nevertheless. It's always hard for me to play a character that has traits that I find despicable because then they very easily can become a character I dislike - same way I dislike e.g. Isabela in DAII because of what she does at the end of Act II, and because she doesn't care about anything we're doing and sticks around just because I'm convenient, and because everything's a joke to her, all the way down to jesting about Fenris' past as a slave (if you romance him) which should somehow be kinky, ew. (Just to make things clear, I'm not saying she's a bad character or that I want her gone from the game! Or that I think people shouldn't like her. Just that I, personally, dislike her a great deal as a person.) But I do try to play varied characters within what I can handle.
 
[possible DAO spoilers] Another thing is that sometimes I'm not even interested in some of the options. At all. I just don't care and don't want to. Like letting Loghain live. Stabbing Morrigan. Romancing Garrus. Killing the Virmire Survivor during the Citadel coup (because I find that situation too stupid). But I sacrificed Destiny Ascension once. I had a heated argument with Mordin, blaming him for spreading the genophage, called him racist and hypocritical. (That was really interesting!) I killed Isolde in a blood magic ritual once (and I gained a great deal of respect for her that way). I romanced Zevran with a male Warden (finding out he's really sweet) and married Alistair to Anora despite the fact he's my favourite love interest in DAO. Once I had Alistair take the killing blow at the end of the game (when I was planning to sacrifice MY OWN character, lol. I didn't think he wouldn't give me a chance to decide, but I couldn't leave him at the gates because Warden business. My Warden didn't trust Morrigan). And I cried for like two hours afterwards.  But it made me like him all that more, knowing he had it in him, and I thought it was pretty epic. Not my favourite playthrough, but I found the ending beautiful regardless. The other options I don't plan to take because I don't care for whatever reasons, I'm glad they are there for other players and that other players obviously love them. I mean, look at Garrus! So many people adore Garrus, despite the fact his romance does nothing for me. His content definitely doesn't go to waste. I don't like Iron Bull as a character very much, so he's not on my list of characters to romance [For me it's Cullen, Cassandra, Sera, and Dorian. (Can you see the pattern yet? :D ) Maybe Solas, if I ever manage to do that many different playthroughs and feel like playing another Lavellan.], but I don't have to because Arcadia and others have obviously had a wonderful time with his romance. They were all fully worth BioWare's effort and that's great.   The thing is, even if I'm not going to try those things out for personal reasons, I'm happy to hear people have a great time with them. It's awesome we have so many options so everybody can make a bunch of really unique playthroughs in each of the games (and still be far from seeing all the content). Then we can exchange those unique experiences.
 
And, wow, I'm rambling so much! I'm sorry! And nothing of it is even about Jacob. I should fix it. Uh, um, Jacob's romance is one of those options I'm simply not interested in. That fixes it, right? Whew. 

[ArcadiaGrey]

 
[possible DAO spoilers] Another thing is that sometimes I'm not even interested in some of the options. At all. I just don't care and don't want to. Like letting Loghain live. Stabbing Morrigan. Romancing Garrus. Killing the Virmire Survivor during the Citadel coup (because I find that situation too stupid). But I sacrificed Destiny Ascension once. 

<snip>

 

Wait....you'd never save Loghain?  Really?  Never???  Welp, it's your game and I respect the fact that you can do whatever makes you happy.  If you're not interested then fair enough.

 

But....Loghain is my favourite...I....oh....*sniff*  please excuse me while I go weep silently in the corner.  *sob*   (whispers....It's okay buddy, come over to my game, I'll save you!)

[Vanilka]

Wait....you'd never save Loghain?  Really?  Never???  Welp, it's your game and I respect the fact that you can do whatever makes you happy.  If you're not interested then fair enough.
 
But....Loghain is my favourite...I....oh....*sniff*  please excuse me while I go weep silently in the corner.  *sob*   (whispers....It's okay buddy, come over to my game, I'll save you!)

 
Hah, I'm sorry!
 

Spoiler

I just can't find a reason any of the Wardens I've played so far would spare him. I mean, either they're too emotionally invested in fighting him already, they want revenge for themselves or for Loghain's crimes (And there's plenty.) - yes, those might be unprofessional reasons, but in character - or, my favourite, they feel they cannot trust him since he went so far out of his way to be an obstacle in their effort against the Blight they see no reason why that shouldn't continue as he didn't have a problem acting dishonest before when he thought it necessary. In my favourite playthrough, I have Alistair duel him and when he's defeated, my Warden just goes...
 

 
... and Alistair lops his head off. There's no dialogue whatsoever. No input from Riordan. No input from me. Somehow I really love it, their little exchange when they're on exactly the same wavelength. In fact, I saw this scene for the first time during my last playthrough. Never had Alistair duel Loghain before. And yet now it's my favourite way to do it because I feel it gives certain closure to Alistair's story.
 
As for me, I just don't care about Loghain. I mean, he's a fallen hero and a great villain, he's well written, and I love to hate him. But that's also where it ends for me. The Landsmeet is where his purpose is over. For my story anyway.
 
But, hey, Loghain's safe in your game. Remember that, I guess? That also means that Alistair is either dead, exiled, or bangs the queen in your game, too. I don't really like any of those but, I mean, you don't see me complaining.   Your game. Your rules. My Alistair remains a Warden.

 
This turned into a DA thread real fast. I suppose it is true. Nobody cares about Jacob. 

[ArcadiaGrey]

 
Hah, I'm sorry!
 

Spoiler

I just can't find a reason any of the Wardens I've played so far would spare him. I mean, either they're too emotionally invested in fighting him already, they want revenge for themselves or for Loghain's crimes (And there's plenty.) - yes, those might be unprofessional reasons, but in character - or, my favourite, they feel they cannot trust him since he went so far out of his way to be an obstacle in their effort against the Blight they see no reason why that shouldn't continue as he didn't have a problem acting dishonest before when he thought it necessary. In my favourite playthrough, I have Alistair duel him and when he's defeated, my Warden just goes...
 

 
... and Alistair lops his head off. There's no dialogue whatsoever. No input from Riordan. No input from me. Somehow I really love it, their little exchange when they're on exactly the same wavelength. In fact, I saw this scene for the first time during my last playthrough. Never had Alistair duel Loghain before. And yet now it's my favourite way to do it because I feel it gives certain closure to Alistair's story.
 
As for me, I just don't care about Loghain. I mean, he's a fallen hero and a great villain, he's well written, and I love to hate him. But that's also where it ends for me. The Landsmeet is where his purpose is over. For my story anyway.
 
But, hey, Loghain's safe in your game. Remember that, I guess? That also means that Alistair is either dead, exiled, or bangs the queen in your game, too. I don't really like any of those but, I mean, you don't see me complaining.   Your game. Your rules. My Alistair remains a Warden.

 
This turned into a DA thread real fast. I suppose it is true. Nobody cares about Jacob. 

 

Your version is identical to my first playthrough.

 

Spoiler

My canon world has Loghain dead as my warden was a human noble and she hated him. Alistair cut his head off. I'll kill him again with another character but I'm not sure what the reasoning will be yet...maybe a mage who hates Loghain for the destruction at the tower?

The two other wardens save him. One because she's a dwarf who admires his military skill. She has no problem with poisoning Eamon, she's from Orzammar, they do that all the time, so she's okay with most of his crimes and honestly just thinks he'll be useful. Alistair ends up a wandering drunk cause I can't bear to kill him, but my warden thought he was a namby pamby anyway.
The other will save him as it will be a world of second chances. A Dalish elf who is pragmatic and thinks if she saved Sten then heck, she may as well save Loghain. By that point she'll have set Alistair up with Anora so he'll be okay.

That gives me 2 Loghains for DA:I, one left somewhere in particular, the other taken home and still alive and well for any future appearance he may get in another game.

After reading The Stolen Throne I like Loghain a lot, he's a great character, so I wanted to see him survive a couple of times. Plus I LOVE his voice acting, any chance to hear his lovely voice is a bonus.

 

I just wish they hadn't turned him in to a pantomime villain.  Think how much more difficult the end of Origins would be if he hadn't been quite so evil.  If you could prove for example, that Howe did most of the worst things and Loghain didn't know, then he'd be a more believable and sympathetic character.  As he was in the book.  But instead we got 'boo hiss he's a baddie'.

 

Jacob?  Oh yeah this thread was about him wasn't it?   

[Vanilka]

Your version is identical to my first playthrough.

 

Spoiler

My canon world has Loghain dead as my warden was a human noble and she hated him. Alistair cut his head off. I'll kill him again with another character but I'm not sure what the reasoning will be yet...maybe a mage who hates Loghain for the destruction at the tower?

The two other wardens save him. One because she's a dwarf who admires his military skill. She has no problem with poisoning Eamon, she's from Orzammar, they do that all the time, so she's okay with most of his crimes and honestly just thinks he'll be useful. Alistair ends up a wandering drunk cause I can't bear to kill him, but my warden thought he was a namby pamby anyway.
The other will save him as it will be a world of second chances. A Dalish elf who is pragmatic and thinks if she saved Sten then heck, she may as well save Loghain. By that point she'll have set Alistair up with Anora so he'll be okay.

That gives me 2 Loghains for DA:I, one left somewhere in particular, the other taken home and still alive and well for any future appearance he may get in another game.

After reading The Stolen Throne I like Loghain a lot, he's a great character, so I wanted to see him survive a couple of times. Plus I LOVE his voice acting, any chance to hear his lovely voice is a bonus.

 

I just wish they hadn't turned him in to a pantomime villain.  Think how much more difficult the end of Origins would be if he hadn't been quite so evil.  If you could prove for example, that Howe did most of the worst things and Loghain didn't know, then he'd be a more believable and sympathetic character.  As he was in the book.  But instead we got 'boo hiss he's a baddie'.

 

Jacob?  Oh yeah this thread was about him wasn't it?   

 

Lol, let's take it to PMs or something and give Jacob some space. Not that he seems to need it. 

[DebatableBubble]

Hah, I'm sorry!
 

Spoiler

I just can't find a reason any of the Wardens I've played so far would spare him. I mean, either they're too emotionally invested in fighting him already, they want revenge for themselves or for Loghain's crimes (And there's plenty.) - yes, those might be unprofessional reasons, but in character - or, my favourite, they feel they cannot trust him since he went so far out of his way to be an obstacle in their effort against the Blight they see no reason why that shouldn't continue as he didn't have a problem acting dishonest before when he thought it necessary. In my favourite playthrough, I have Alistair duel him and when he's defeated, my Warden just goes...
 
 
... and Alistair lops his head off. There's no dialogue whatsoever. No input from Riordan. No input from me. Somehow I really love it, their little exchange when they're on exactly the same wavelength. In fact, I saw this scene for the first time during my last playthrough. Never had Alistair duel Loghain before. And yet now it's my favourite way to do it because I feel it gives certain closure to Alistair's story.
 
As for me, I just don't care about Loghain. I mean, he's a fallen hero and a great villain, he's well written, and I love to hate him. But that's also where it ends for me. The Landsmeet is where his purpose is over. For my story anyway.
 
But, hey, Loghain's safe in your game. Remember that, I guess? That also means that Alistair is either dead, exiled, or bangs the queen in your game, too. I don't really like any of those but, I mean, you don't see me complaining.   Your game. Your rules. My Alistair remains a Warden.

 
This turned into a DA thread real fast. I suppose it is true. Nobody cares about Jacob. 

I understand your reasons but it's worth sparing Loghain and taking him all the way to Inquisition at least once.

[obbie31]

I'm new to the series, and I'm happy to say I have done quite a bit of experimenting. I originally played as a Paragon femshep and thought that I would never change that. But outside of letting Garrus die in ME2 (seriously, I will never let that turian die), I've done almost everything in the series. I found out I cannot stand Renegade femshep. Her "tough guy" voice is not very convincing, and I find femshep better as Paragon. Broshep is a better renegade IMO. I've also found out while I prefer Paragon, some of the renegade lines are flat out better or are just more convincing than Paragon (ending the geth/quarian conflict is a prime example of this).

 

I've also discovered, I slightly prefer broshep because I can relate to the character better since I'm male. The relationships between characters feel more personal. Love interests hold more weight, and characters like Garrus, Wrex, Kaiden, and James feel like bros to me. Also choices tend to hold more weight as it feels like I'm choosing them. 

 

I know the Jacob thing has died out, but just to add my two cents: I almost romanced him in ME2 in my first run. I'm a big fan of inter-racial romances. But something about Jacob rubbed me the wrong way, so I backed out. He didn't seem too happy if I recall. And I'm glad I did because I found out later what he does in ME3. And its not just a black guy thing. In ME3 there's a white female and an asari who is planning to cheat/leave her husband while he is away fighting the war because "she's not happy." I've been in the military and I've seen this destroy other guys. Those two characters are far more despicable than Jacob. I secretly wished they both died. 

[ArcadiaGrey]

I'm new to the series, and I'm happy to say I have done quite a bit of experimenting. I originally played as a Paragon femshep and thought that I would never change that. But outside of letting Garrus die in ME2 (seriously, I will never let that turian die), I've done almost everything in the series. I found out I cannot stand Renegade femshep. Her "tough guy" voice is not very convincing, and I find femshep better as Paragon. Broshep is a better renegade IMO. I've also found out while I prefer Paragon, some of the renegade lines are flat out better or are just more convincing than Paragon (ending the geth/quarian conflict is a prime example of this).

 

I've also discovered, I slightly prefer broshep because I can relate to the character better since I'm male. The relationships between characters feel more personal. Love interests hold more weight, and characters like Garrus, Wrex, Kaiden, and James feel like bros to me. Also choices tend to hold more weight as it feels like I'm choosing them. 

 

I know the Jacob thing has died out, but just to add my two cents: I almost romanced him in ME2 in my first run. I'm a big fan of inter-racial romances. But something about Jacob rubbed me the wrong way, so I backed out. He didn't seem too happy if I recall. And I'm glad I did because I found out later what he does in ME3. And its not just a black guy thing. In ME3 there's a white female and an asari who is planning to cheat/leave her husband while he is away fighting the war because "she's not happy." I've been in the military and I've seen this destroy other guys. Those two characters are far more despicable than Jacob. I secretly wished they both died. 

 

Good man, I'm all about experimenting.  If Bioware make it an option, I'm gonna do it.  However you seem to be misinformed....you think Garrus can die?  Nonononono you've got that wrong, never happens.  Ever.  Nuh-uh.  Not a thing.  Nope.   

 

While I couldn't disagree more about Renegade FemShep (she's freaking awesome), I totally understand the same gender thing.  I always lean towards female characters and their romances and friendships do mean a little more.  I prefer Tali as a best friend/sister than a girlfriend for example.  I have played maleShep but I just ended up fancying him.  Seeing how he was me that's a teensy bit screwed up.  

 

You dodged a bullet with Jacob.  As for the women on the Citadel, look on the bright side, maybe they got chopped up by the Keepers and recycled.  

[Vanilka]

In ME3 there's a white female and an asari who is planning to cheat/leave her husband while he is away fighting the war because "she's not happy." I've been in the military and I've seen this destroy other guys. Those two characters are far more despicable than Jacob. I secretly wished they both died. 

 

How are they "far more despicable"? Cheating is cheating. (Shep's also military.) Both parties are despicable and disgusting.

 

 

I understand your reasons but it's worth sparing Loghain and taking him all the way to Inquisition at least once.

 

About 300 hours is a lot of time to live with a decision I'm not particularly interested in, though. I appreciate the tip, however.

[ArcadiaGrey]

How are they "far more despicable"? Cheating is cheating. (Shep's also military.) Both parties are despicable and disgusting.

 

Hah!  I was wondering the same thing myself.  Shep is away under lock and key, trying to save the galaxy, when Jacob cheats cause he 'can't wait 6 months' even though he's supposed to love you.

 

Sounds like the same thing to me.

[Natureguy85]

 
True. It takes a bit of courage to try the more cruel or seemingly cruel options. Especially if you don't revel in being mean in games. Some people enjoy exactly that, though. I think renegade Shepard is rather popular around here. And renegade is not just about being mean anyway. Sometimes it's about not being a doormat. Sometimes it's about not being stupid. Sometimes the morality just doesn't work. Take the choice between retwriting and destroying the heretics. I believe destroying them is more ethical. (Just my opinion. Not saying I'm right.) Yet I get a ton of renegade points for it. And, to be completely honest, I don't mind because I don't play a paragon or renegade. I play a character of my own. Either way, I understand that it's not easy to try things you find cruel. It's really cool that you find a reason for your character to do them and enjoy the experience in the long run. It really must result in a unique playthrough each time.

 

See, I like being mean in games sometimes and doing things I normally wouldn't. Sometimes it's just to see what happens and sometimes it's to RP someone doing things I'd never consider. Unfortunately, as my guy Mr. Btongue points out in his excellent Choice and Consequence video, the differences are a small part of what will otherwise be the same game each time. So playthroughs get limited simply by burn-out. I haven't done many things in games simply for lack of enough playthroughs to do them all. I'd like to revisit DAO but I have a backlog of games I haven't played once. I just replayed Metro Last Light and played it's DLC levels for the first time, two of which were amazing and gave me more of what the main game didn't have enough of.

 

There are only two things I can recall saying "F you, game" and not playing them because they were too awful, both of which were in Far Cry 3. The first was one of the hunting missions, which I was already annoyed with. The game has a "warrior" narrative going and many side missions have the premise of you proving yourself as a warrior. Well, I don't find killing animals with high powered military weapons to be very honorable or sporting. So when one came up to kill wild dogs with a rocket launcher, I was done.

 

The second was at the end

Spoiler

where you have the choice to slit your girlfriend's throat, and I assume those of your brother and other friends, to stay with the indigenous tribe as a warrior. The whole game has been spent rescuing these people from the bad guys. The natives were your allies and have just betrayed you, murdering an extremely sad and sympathetic character. When I went there, I wanted to kill their entire tribe, so joining them was out of the question even if it didn't involve murdering all my friends.

In fairness to the game, there is the idea that the character is in a drug induced stupor for some important events, including the end, but it doesn't present it very well.

 

After reading The Stolen Throne I like Loghain a lot, he's a great character, so I wanted to see him survive a couple of times. Plus I LOVE his voice acting, any chance to hear his lovely voice is a bonus. [/spoiler]

 

I just wish they hadn't turned him in to a pantomime villain.  Think how much more difficult the end of Origins would be if he hadn't been quite so evil.  If you could prove for example, that Howe did most of the worst things and Loghain didn't know, then he'd be a more believable and sympathetic character.  As he was in the book.  But instead we got 'boo hiss he's a baddie'.

 

 I have come to like Loghain more over time or at least what he was probably intended to be. I was happy to lop of his traitorous head the first time through. Initially he seemed more power hungry, but now I try to see him more as a well intentioned extremist. I don't think they should have made the worst things Howe doing it behind his back because that would absolve him completely. However, they should have made it more of Howe being the snake in his ear, like Wormtongue in LotR or Korbut in Metro Last Light. In the latter case, he had damning information about the leader he was using to blackmail him. For Loghain to remain sympathetic, we needed to see more scenes that show that these decisions weigh heavily on Loghain and he sees themas a necessary evil. The one example we got was when Howe hired Zevran. Loghain doesn't seem to like it very much and seems to agree only reluctantly. We should have been shown a desperate man, rather than a tyrant cracking down on dissidents.

 

 

 

 

 
And, wow, I'm rambling so much! I'm sorry! And nothing of it is even about Jacob. I should fix it. Uh, um, Jacob's romance is one of those options I'm simply not interested in. That fixes it, right? Whew. 

Jacob?  Oh yeah this thread was about him wasn't it?   

Lol, let's take it to PMs or something and give Jacob some space. Not that he seems to need it. 

 

To quote my guy Smudboy, who cares about Jacob?

[Vanilka]

Hah!  I was wondering the same thing myself.  Shep is away under lock and key, trying to save the galaxy, when Jacob cheats cause he 'can't wait 6 months' even though he's supposed to love you.

 

Sounds like the same thing to me.

 

Yes. I think both the girls on the Citadel and Jacob did something incredibly hurtful. The thing is, one of the girls was at least planning to tell her boyfriend. Which doesn't make it much better since she'd already cheated, but it's still more than what Jacob tried to do. However, I don't see any of them better or worse because they're all bad. In both cases, I just want to throw things at them and yell, "YOU BASTAD, DO YOU KNOW WHAT YOU DID?!" Bleh.

[obbie31]

Ha. Silly me. I totally forgot Garrus never dies. He's too good for that. 

 

I personally don't get the love for Renegade femshep and why everyone thinks she's so cool. But more power to you if you think that. I see what you are saying about Tali though. But I personally felt her progression and her feelings for you are the most natural in the series. And her arc with Shepard is just too good to ignore. Miranda is another character that I originally didn't care too much about as femshep. But when I played broshep, I totally got into the character. And despite a lack of content in ME3, I feel has great chemistry with male Shepard. A good romance that could have been made better with more screen time.

 

The difference between the two females and Jacob is a personal one for me. Remember I said I've seen it destroy guys in the military? Anyone watch Jarhead? You should know what scene I'm referring to if you did. There is also a key difference between Jacob and the two females. Jacob is still a jerk, but Shepard was safely locked up when he cheated (as far as I know). The other female had a husband that was active duty and fighting for his life against husks and marauders. Don't you think springing that on someone in the middle of a war is basically killing them? Don't you think one of his reasons for potentially coming back alive is seeing his wife again, even if they may not have left under the best of terms? What if they had kids? While Shepard is understandably upset at what Jacob did, they aren't bound together like the married couple is. Again, not saying what Jacob did was better. I'm just saying the deployed husband has it worse. 

 

And Jacob... well Jacob is just a moron in my opinion. Who in their right might would cheat on Commander Shepard? And for a nobody to boot? I sure as hell wouldn't cheat on my Shepard.  I'd wait for her even if it killed me.