9 réponses à ce sujet

[capn233]

Was this something that anybody ever tested?

 

The reason I ask is because I was digging through some old threads looking for different information, but kept running into comments that the advantage of Cryo Blast over Neural Shock was the frozen damage bonus.  But ragdoll damage bonus is identical to frozen damage bonus.  These threads were from years ago, and it wouldn't make a lot of sense to bump them.

 

If I get some time I will look into it myself if nobody else had.  I was trying to look at some vids, but it is hard to tell in uncontrolled setting.  I would have assumed that NS got the ragdoll bonus since it ragdolls.  If not applied in initial "paralyze," at the least when target falls over.  It does instakill husks near instantly though.

 

EDIT

 

You can jump to below for the test.  The answer is that you do get 100% additive ragdoll bonus after target falls to ground.

[RedCaesar97]

I thought the thing with Neural Shock is that enemies in the shock state were not ragdolled until they fell to the ground (and that it is organic only).

 

Or maybe I am not remembering it correctly.

[a_mouse]

Not much help here, I'm afraid.  Almost never used Neural shock, since Slam and Pull serve kind of a similar purpose, but are not limited to organics (and can prime warp bombs...)

[capn233]

I thought the thing with Neural Shock is that enemies in the shock state were not ragdolled until they fell to the ground (and that it is organic only).

 

Or maybe I am not remembering it correctly.

 

That's what I would have assumed, and then bonus damage on ground.  Not no bonus whatsoever.

 

Husks of course die right away, which is why I am wondering if paralyzed might actually count as ragdolled.  It has been nearly 4 years since I really used NS consistently on a character.

[RedCaesar97]

That's what I would have assumed, and then bonus damage on ground.  Not no bonus whatsoever.

 

I thought that just lying on the ground did not count as a ragdoll state? I thought you had to be falling or knocked back from melee, or frozen, or lifted from Pull/Singularity/Slam to be considered ragdolled? Maybe I am remembering it wrong.

[capn233]

I thought that just lying on the ground did not count as a ragdoll state? I thought you had to be falling or knocked back from melee, or frozen, or lifted from Pull/Singularity/Slam to be considered ragdolled? Maybe I am remembering it wrong.

 

I don't remember.

[capn233]

I started NG+ with an infiltrator to fight some guys without weapon damage upgrades (ragdoll bonus adds to same part of damage formula, making double damage decrease as you increase bonuses).  I also had Heavy Disruptor enabled, which is part of why the total damage wasn't actually "doubled."  Also not sure how much range bonus I lost when target was on the ground.

 

Anyway I guess I should have left passive blank as well, but I guess I could do a test again.  In any event, against the Turian Blue Suns in Mordin's mission (Level 30), Carnifex took off around 26 pixel width of health with a body shot at their shotgun range regularly, and if they were in their "paralyzed lean back" stance, but more like 40 pixels width after they fall all the way to the ground.  Of course, they don't always fall all the way to the ground the first NS.

 

Regular Bodyshot

 

Paralyzed Bodyshot

 

On Ground Bodyshot

 

Obviously it would be a little better to redo this with absolutely no weapon damage bonus, the Viper probably, and no ammo.  I might try that later.  But damage was higher when target was on the ground.

[capn233]

Ok I did the "better" test.

 

Level 30 Infiltrator (NG+)

 

Used Gibbed to remove squadmates, and all powers except 1pt NS.

 

After shield stripping a basic Blue Suns Merc on Professor, I shot them in the body with the Widow (no ammo, no upgrades).

 

Standard body shot would leave them with something like 40% health.  If I hit them with NS and then let them fall to ground, Widow would one-shot their health with bodyshot.

 

[capn233]

Maths:

Weapon Damage Formula

 

Damage = B * (1+SumDamageMod+HeadShotBonus+RangeMod) * DefenseModifier.

 

For Test Setup:

 

B = 368.3 (Widow Base Damage)

DamageMod = 0 for first two shots, 1 for last shot (most likely)

HeadshotBonus = 0 , N/A (tested bodyshots)

RangeMod = 0, N/A (always 0 for sniper rifles. 0 to 1 for other weapons)

DefenseModifier = 1 (multiplier, health)

 

For no bonus shot, damage is simply 368.3

 

For potential ragdoll damage bonus shot:

 

Damage = 368.3*(1+1+0+0)*1 = 736.6

 

Blue Suns Trooper ->  Likely 645 total health at level 30.

 

(645 - 368.3)/645 = ~43% health remaining for first two shots

 

0 health remaining for last shot.

[capn233]

Warning, wall o' numbers incoming.

 

Repeat of above test using method peddroelm showed me.

 

New Game +, The Professor, same location as previous test.  Level 30 Infiltrator, only 1 pt in NS.  No research.  Kuwashii Visor and Strength Boost Shoulders

 

Target: Turian Blue Suns Trooper

 

Shields: 150

Health: 250

 

I stripped his shields with the Tempest and all tests were on health.

 

Neural Shock - Tempest

 

Time 0 -- Neural Shock  Applied

AT Timediff:    17.645 Turian Health Dmg : 4.253  <-Target in paralyzed animation
AT Timediff:     0.050 Turian Health Dmg : 4.253  
AT Timediff:     0.066 Turian Health Dmg : 4.253  
AT Timediff:     0.066 Turian Health Dmg : 4.253  
AT Timediff:     0.066 Turian Health Dmg : 4.253  
AT Timediff:     0.134 Turian Health Dmg : 4.253  
AT Timediff:     0.065 Turian Health Dmg : 4.253  
AT Timediff:     0.067 Turian Health Dmg : 4.253  
AT Timediff:     0.115 Turian Health Dmg : 4.253  
AT Timediff:     0.200 Turian Health Dmg : 4.253  
AT Timediff:     0.065 Turian Health Dmg : 4.253  
AT Timediff:     0.067 Turian Health Dmg : 4.253  
AT Timediff:     0.249 Turian Health Dmg : 4.253  
AT Timediff:     0.066 Turian Health Dmg : 4.253  
AT Timediff:     0.449 Turian Health Dmg : 4.253  
AT Timediff:     0.065 Turian Health Dmg : 4.253  
AT Timediff:     0.065 Turian Health Dmg : 4.253  
AT Timediff:     0.065 Turian Health Dmg : 4.253  
AT Timediff:     0.066 Turian Health Dmg : 4.253  
AT Timediff:     0.066 Turian Health Dmg : 4.253  
AT Timediff:     0.068 Turian Health Dmg : 4.253  
AT Timediff:     0.063 Turian Health Dmg : 8.506  <-Bonus starts
AT Timediff:     0.116 Turian Health Dmg : 8.506  
AT Timediff:     0.066 Turian Health Dmg : 3.288  <-Fall damage applied?
AT Timediff:     0.581 Turian Health Dmg : 8.506  
AT Timediff:     0.066 Turian Health Dmg : 8.506  
AT Timediff:     0.131 Turian Health Dmg : 8.506  
AT Timediff:     1.080 Turian Health Dmg : 8.506  
AT Timediff:     0.115 Turian Health Dmg : 8.506  
AT Timediff:     0.064 Turian Health Dmg : 8.506  
AT Timediff:     0.064 Turian Health Dmg : 8.506  
AT Timediff:     0.231 Turian Health Dmg : 8.506  
AT Timediff:     0.048 Turian Health Dmg : 8.506  
AT Timediff:     0.064 Turian Health Dmg : 8.506  
AT Timediff:     0.064 Turian Health Dmg : 8.506  
AT Timediff:     0.197 Turian Health Dmg : 8.506  
AT Timediff:     0.248 Turian Health Dmg : 8.506  
AT Timediff:     0.131 Turian Health Dmg : 8.506  
AT Timediff:     0.064 Turian Health Dmg : 8.506  
AT Timediff:     0.198 Turian Health Dmg : 8.506  
AT Timediff:     0.114 Turian Health Dmg : 8.506  
AT Timediff:     0.197 Turian Health Dmg : 8.506  
AT Timediff:     0.199 Turian Health Dmg : 4.253  <-Target starting to stand up, bonus ends
AT Timediff:     0.062 Turian Health Dmg : 4.253  
AT Timediff:     0.064 Turian Health Dmg : 4.253  
AT Timediff:     0.065 Turian Health Dmg : 4.253  
AT Timediff:     0.048 Turian Health Dmg : 4.253  
AT Timediff:     0.063 Turian Health Dmg : 4.253  

Tempest Base 14

14*0.303798 = 4.253172

 

14*(1+1)*0.303798=8.506344

 

**Neural Shock will apply 100% additive ragdoll bonus to target if it falls to the ground.  Bonus removed when target starts to stand back up.

 

Damage Scaling - Grenade Launcher

AT Timediff:   170.127 Turian Health Dmg : 151.899  
AT Timediff:     0.034 Turian Health Dmg : 6.828  <-Fall damage?
AT Timediff:    31.356 Turian Health Dmg : 151.899  
AT Timediff:     0.034 Turian Health Dmg : 9.981  <-Fall damage?

AT Timediff:    68.100 Turian Health Dmg : 151.899  
AT Timediff:     0.033 Turian Health Dmg : 12.570  <-Fall damage
AT Timediff:     1.482 Turian Health Dmg : 151.899 <- On ground, no bonus
AT Timediff:     0.033 Turian Health Dmg : 20.060  <-Fall damage

 

Calculate Damage Scalar

 

Grenade Launcher: 500 dmg, 1x health

500x = 151.899
x = 0.303798

 

Grenade Launcher Knockdown - Tempest

 

AT Timediff:     5.703 Turian Health Dmg : 151.899 <-Grenade shot
AT Timediff:     0.017 Turian Health Dmg : 5.542  <-Fall Damage?
AT Timediff:     2.667 Turian Health Dmg : 12.122  <-errant headshot?
AT Timediff:     0.383 Turian Health Dmg : 8.506  <-Tempest bonus damage on ground
AT Timediff:     0.066 Turian Health Dmg : 8.506  
AT Timediff:     0.065 Turian Health Dmg : 8.506

 

Tempest shot with ragdoll bonus, and headshot with Kuwashii Visor

14*(1+1+0.75+0.1)*0.303798=12.122

 

Oh, I actually totally meant to get that headshot to test the visor...

 

**Grenade Launcher knockdown can cause ragdoll damage bonus, but it does not benefit from that bonus itself.

**Kuwashii Visor 10% additive headshot bonus probably works.

 

Neural Shock - Widow

 

AT Timediff:   134.118 Turian Health Dmg : 111.889  
- Neural Shock Applied -
AT Timediff:     3.420 Turian Health Dmg : 111.889  <-Target in paralyzed stance
AT Timediff:     1.865 Turian Health Dmg : 3.055  <-Fall Damage
AT Timediff:     1.600 Turian Health Dmg : 223.777  <-On ground

Widow Base 368.3

368.3*(1)*0.303798=111.889

368.3*(1+1)*0.303798=223.7776

 

Neural Shock with Carnifex (in case you haven't fallen asleep)

 

AT Timediff:     0.650 Turian Health Dmg : 25.690 <-Slightly inside optimal ?
AT Timediff:     0.016 Turian Health Dmg : 3.709  <-Fall?
AT Timediff:     0.533 Turian Health Dmg : 51.889  <-On ground
AT Timediff:     2.150 Turian Health Dmg : 51.889  
AT Timediff:     0.533 Turian Health Dmg : 51.889  
AT Timediff:     0.633 Turian Health Dmg : 51.889  
AT Timediff:     0.683 Turian Health Dmg : 25.944  <-Standing up
AT Timediff:     0.632 Turian Health Dmg : 25.944  

Carnifex Base 85.4

85.4*(1)*0.303798=25.944

85.4*(1+1)*0.303798=51.889