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Companions turned Gods


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#26
ModernAcademic

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Except his people can't, because they are trapped. Cole mentions that the people Solas wants to save are trapped and sleeping behind the mirrors. So no, they are not perfectly capable to to live in this world with the current situation. And we have no idea how many people are there.

 

Trapped and sleeping...

 

the slumbering Old Gods, in their underground prisons...

 

Tamlen finds an eluvian (a mirror) that leads to a terrible dark place and becomes tainted...

 

Nothing in the lore of my people connects the Elven Gods to dragons.

                                                                                                           - Solas

 

 

Could he be lying or really not know?



#27
TheKomandorShepard

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Except his people can't, because they are trapped. Cole mentions that the people Solas wants to save are trapped and sleeping behind the mirrors. So no, they are not perfectly capable to to live in this world with the current situation. And we have no idea how many people are there.

 

I have little knowledge of Spider man, but I believe this is a situation where the Green Goblin kills either Gwen, or a bunch of innocent people? Then I don't class that as Spider Man killing Gwen because another took direct action to take that life. In this situation there is no other element. Solas either leaves his people to effective death behind the mirrors, or directly kills all the people in the modern world. Whichever choice he makes, a bunch of people have died because of his choice with no outside interference. So I class it as killing them. It's just a question of which people to kill.

 

Fair enough about neutral not having to be self serving with "serving a nation", but I disagree with "not being nice" about a good cause making it less good. Good can be harsh.

 

This is all a bit irrelevant though, as my basic stance is that "good" means acting with good intentions. I don't think taking an evil/neutral action makes that person neutral/evil, it just means they made a mistake for whatever reason. For example, there are plenty of heroic figures that are tricked into doing something evil by the villain, but that doesn't then make them evil. Likewise, a good person who makes a bad judgement call isn't evil to me.

 

Except they can as we can see Solas, Abelas ,his elves as well Felassan (who was probably ancient elf himself) were perfectly capable to live in current world, same for elves that survived fall of Arlathan. Also where Cole said it give link or at least exact quote. 

 

Im talking about movie spider-man (not the amazing spider man) , where he has to chose between saving Mary Jane or Kids i won't tell how that ended because spoiler but it wouldn't be spider-man who killed them.Even if your theory is correct , his people aren't in danger of dying in first place he is only one who enforces "We or Them" situation when he decides to kill everyone else ,so by any mean he isn't forced between chosing between lives.

 

Not by D&D alignment standards.

 

Being tricked into doing "evil" and chosing to do "evil" are 2 different things.



#28
ComedicSociopathy

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Looks like my post has started a class alignment argument. Awesome!

 

Anyways, I think you guys make a good point as why Solas isn't exactly Chaotic Good anymore on account of his crazy plan, and while I gave him that alignment because his personal philosophy and thoughts seemed to just seemed to scream CG to me I can totally see how he's gone darker and turned Chaotic Neutral or even True Neutral, which is an alignment I never would of thought to give him. It's just that to me Chaotic Neutral characters are pretty indifferent to helping people and value their own freedom and happiness but rarely others. Solas at the very at least wants to help restore his people, which it definitely selfish (which a lot of Chaotic characters including Good ones are) since it would involve the deaths of millions, but still isn't quite Chaotic Neutral since he's doing it help others and not necessarily himself. It's sort of the same reason why I ultimately gave Sera Chaotic Good even through she's quite selfish at times and kind of an ass. At the end of the day she wants to help people, certain people mind you, but still she has that desire to help others even when it doesn't actually profit her all the time.

 

But, hey, YMMV, so I can totally get way people reach a different conclusion.

 

 

Lovely topic :)

 

Just a question: why Sebastian enemy/rivalry with Aveline?

 

Aveline surprisingly has something of a Blackwall thing going on in that she doesn't really like nobles that act like their above everyone else. Her banters with Sebastian are typically hostile.

 

 

I disagree with Vivienne being a rival to Dorian and vice versa since she seemed to show both respect and concern for him in Trespasser.   Not attending the leaving party means nothing since she never seems to socialise; she didn't do Wicked Grace either.   I reckon their relationship would be no worse than neutral.  

 

However, I do think she would be a rival to Cole; she really wasn't happy about having him around the place and you show Cole as one of her rivals.   Generally in D&D they tend to mirror one another.

 

 True. But I'd imagine that even Vivienne would at least attend possibly last social engagement that she'd ever have with Dorian if they did have anything beyond caustic banter between one another. I see them as friendly rivals, but still definitely rivals in terms of politics and treatment. 

 

I didn't gave Cole any Enemies/Rivals even through they typically are mirrored in D&D because Cole himself doesn't really treat or view Vivienne, or anyone else for that, as an enemy/rival of any kind. 


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#29
TheKomandorShepard

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Looks like my post has started a class alignment argument. Awesome!

 

Anyways, I think you guys make a good point as why Solas isn't exactly Chaotic Good anymore on account of his crazy plan, and while I gave him that alignment because his personal philosophy and thoughts seemed to just seemed to scream CG to me I can totally see how he's gone darker and turned Chaotic Neutral or even True Neutral, which is an alignment I never would of thought to give him. It's just that to me Chaotic Neutral characters are pretty indifferent to helping people and value their own freedom and happiness but rarely others. Solas at the very at least wants to help restore his people, which it definitely selfish (which a lot of Chaotic characters including Good ones are) since it would involve the deaths of millions, but still isn't quite Chaotic Neutral since he's doing it help others and not necessarily himself. It's sort of the same reason why I ultimately gave Sera Chaotic Good even through she's quite selfish at times and kind of an ass. At the end of the day she wants to help people, certain people mind you, but still she has that desire to help others even when it doesn't actually profit her all the time.

 

Neutral characters aren't necessarily self-centred , neutral can be loyal to group/race/person/cause (for example true neutral may be dedicated to keep balance in the world) , being chaotic in short means to value freedoom , Chaotic Good would never hurt deliberately innocent person and would want happiness and freedoom for everyone (with exception of evil alignments) , Solas wants it only for himself and his people. Sera never allows her desires to hurt innocent people, at least not deliberately despite she favors certain groups over others (what can be true for any alignment) but personally would label Sera as CG with low intelligence and wisdom thus her actions often unintentionally end harming others and her words end causing pain. 



#30
ComedicSociopathy

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Neutral characters aren't necessarily self-centred , neutral can be loyal to group/race/person/cause (for example true neutral may be dedicated to keep balance in the world) , being chaotic in short means to value freedoom , Chaotic Good would never hurt deliberately innocent person and would want happiness and freedoom for everyone (with exception of evil alignments) , Solas wants it only for himself and his people. Sera never allows her desires to hurt innocent people, at least not deliberately despite she favors certain groups over others (what can be true for any alignment) but personally would label Sera as CG with low intelligence and wisdom thus her actions often unintentionally end harming others and her words end causing pain. 

 

Fair enough. 



#31
Nimlowyn

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Trapped and sleeping...

 

the slumbering Old Gods, in their underground prisons...

 

Tamlen finds an eluvian (a mirror) that leads to a terrible dark place and becomes tainted...

 

Nothing in the lore of my people connects the Elven Gods to dragons.

                                                                                                           - Solas

 

 

Could he be lying or really not know?

Seeing that he says "Nothing in the lore" he could be using sneaky, sneaky language... :bandit:

 

Anyway, it's cool to read the debate about Solas' alignment. Kind of shows how successful of a character he is.  :lol:


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#32
GoldenGail3

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Yeah; good post. I like it, OP. It's awesome to image.