295 réponses à ce sujet

[Seraphim24]

Wow. Yep, I do like this, but really; I do still say firmly no. It's just... There are too many things to dislike about DA2 for me to ever say yep.

 

Well like what are the other things you dislike about DA2? I can think of a few things... but to my mind they are traceable more towards large-scale efforts not small scale elements.

 

Look, I think some people just hated how ME3's ending not that it was large scale, but that you don't get to kind of win.

 

Well unfortunately, the answer to that it is simply... yes... well... not an answer people want to hear, but not really within their grasp. It's not within a lot of medias grasp, hence the focus on smaller scale stuff.

 

That doesn't diminish their power, there is stuff like Neon Genesis Evangelion which is (spoiler) an anime about kind of a similar failure at the end of the world stakes, but it's still essentially one of the best anime ever made, it doesn't become valueless because it doesn't have this mega level ending.

 

Most media opts to, what are most Hollywood movies? I mean, something like "Neighbors" avoids the issues entirely, DA/ME isn't avoiding the issues entirely, they are attacking them, but being more realistic.

 

Moreover, there are media which involve the kind of end of the world, but then people should go play those instead of trying to force Bioware to be the round peg in the square hole.

[straykat]

I wouldn't need an exact DA2 replica to cheer up about the setting.

 

If I played a City Elf in Tevinter, with an origin story, that would suit me fine. And by origin story, I mean something playable and personal and fairly down to earth. And not a codex. And I don't necessarily want to rule over everyone. Although I can't rule that out with Bioware. I'd probably dictate how dwarves and Qunari live or something... just because.

[GoldenGail3]

Well like what are the other things you dislike about DA2? I can think of a few things... but to my mind they are traceable more towards large-scale efforts not small scale elements.

Lol. I love how awesome people are at typing. Really; I feel in the mood for respecting people with better typing skills then I am.

And your right; actually.

[Gileadan]

I wouldn't need an exact DA2 replica to cheer up about the setting.

 

If I played a City Elf in Tevinter, with an origin story, that would suit me fine. And by origin story, I mean something playable and personal. Not a codex. And I don't necessarily want to rule over everyone. Although I can't rule that out. I'd probably dictate how dwarves and Qunari live or something... just because.

Playable origins make everything better.

 

And I wouldn't mind an ending where the protagonist kinda disappears into obscurity again, at least for a while, instead of ending up in any position of prominence.

 

One ending I imagine once in a while is someone else taking all the credit for the protagonist's deeds, coming home to find out your house was rented out to someone else, and the last shot being our hero picking up another low level job as a caravan escort or some such, credits rolling as he / she walks off to see the new employers 

[Seraphim24]

I wouldn't need an exact DA2 replica to cheer up about the setting.

 

If I played a City Elf in Tevinter, with an origin story, that would suit me fine. And by origin story, I mean something playable and personal and fairly down to earth. And not a codex. And I don't necessarily want to rule over everyone. Although I can't rule that out with Bioware. I'd probably dictate how dwarves and Qunari live or something... just because.

 

You are right, there are ways of having a City Elf not feel all awkward and hamfisted.

 

I just mean, whenever the "stakes" are raised in Bioware games, which is too often, it tends to go badly, for like, eveyone, but there's no need to play that game.

 

Hollywood doesn't play it all, Bioware doesn't have to, or they can kind of go partway, halfway, 3/4, no need to keep seesawing around.

 

Frankly, Tevinter would be a nightmare. Tevinter is already just a super intense concept and would very likely only make things worse, the equivalent in MEA would be like going to center of Asari civilization or something.

[N7-MB]

I read the whole thread, here's what it inspires me

 

1- OP is nearly incomprehensible: "make it more like DA2, but I hated DA2", this is what I understood of it

2- I never played the DA series, for the mechanics you're trying to compare an action rpg to an action FPS. you won't ever go anywhere with this in my opinion

3- ppl seem to want a character driven story & more character development, I'd be fine with that as stories are what drive me to games.

 

I don't agree with what some seem to ask, that the story shouldn't have any impact on the universe. An epic "save the universe" story I can certainly live without, but nearly no impact at all except your characters' life? If that's it I can just go on the street outside

I'm not saying that our every action should have universe shattering consequences but a "play the story & universe stays on the same rails whatever you do" isn't really attractive to most of the player's base i think

[straykat]

 

 

I just mean, whenever the "stakes" are raised in Bioware games, which is too often, it tends to go badly, for like, eveyone, but there's no need to play that game.

 

There's no need, you're right. I just had no idea DAI would be that way.. at least this to extent. I expected more intrigue, considering the stories that led up to it (Asunder/Masked/DA2). I don't want to play something like that again.

[Seraphim24]

 

I don't agree with what some seem to ask, that the story shouldn't have any impact on the universe. An epic "save the universe" story I can certainly live without, but nearly no impact at all except your characters' life? If that's it I can just go on the street outside

I'm not saying that our every action should have universe shattering consequences but a "play the story & universe stays on the same rails whatever you do" isn't really attractive to most of the player's base i think

 

Why is it always either/or? Why is everything either save the world or you are the postman of the Sci fi universe? I admit the OP does not contain all my ideas in the same clarity, but there are places in between.

[N7-MB]

Why is it always either/or? Why is everything either save the world or you are the postman of the Sci fi universe? I admit the OP does not contain all my ideas in the same clarity, but there are places in between.

never said it has to

as I told I never played the DA series, I don't know it at all

but from what posts implied it suggested the story had happened & player just skirted the edge of it without any influence whatsoever on the universe after

[straykat]

never said it has to

as I told I never played the DA series, I don't know it at all

but from what posts implied it suggested the story had happened & player just skirted the edge of it without any influence whatsoever on the universe after

 

Some of the lack of effect is because they wrote it that way AFTER the fact. When it came out, I think they might've had higher hopes. They billed Hawke as the most important person in Thedas. They also planned an expansion, but it got canceled. It probably would have had big choices too. They recycled some of it in DAI (like the Flemeth stuff).

[Seraphim24]

never said it has to

as I told I never played the DA series, I don't know it at all

but from what posts implied it suggested the story had happened & player just skirted the edge of it without any influence whatsoever on the universe after

 

Well, that's just.... false

[Seraphim24]

Some of the lack of effect is because they wrote it that way AFTER the fact. When it came out, I think they might've had higher hopes. They billed Hawke as the most important person in Thedas. They also planned an expansion, but it got canceled. It probably would have had big choices too. They recycled some of it in DAI (like the Flemeth stuff).

 

Yeah Bioware used to have a lot of expansions, NWN etc, in retrospect those were often the fun parts because they always dumped their BIG RPG schtick and just made something simpler and more fun.

 

Like is Increased Alacrity a spell from D&D? Probably not, but like, who cares right at that point, it was fun, it's fine, jeez. I mean it's not like every encounter was so greatly balanced in the first place, it's not like Thieves in Athkatla didn't abuse invisibility potions in super cheap ways while you fought them or it didn't have other issues, so what's wrong with a little just spic and span and acceleration anyway?

[N7-MB]

Well, that's just.... false

then what is IT exactly that all you ppl ask for? I'm afraid I can't understand anything as a non-DA player

[Seraphim24]

then what is IT exactly that all you ppl ask for? I'm afraid I can't understand anything as a non-DA player

 

Mass Effect 2 has more of a slice of life than an epic world shattering adventure, make MEA more like that.

[N7-MB]

Mass Effect 2 has more of a slice of life than an epic world shattering adventure, make MEA more like that.

should have simply told that, I agree scenario-wise ME2 was the best of the series

[Seraphim24]

The thing about DA2 is that it was a cave management simulator. It did some things right, some of them were excellent but the progression and repeated landscapes and the constant errands...uff..those things needed work

 

As mentioned in more detail later, None of Bioware's games are super complex RPGs, all of them are already simplified going all the way back to Baldur's Gate 1.

 

How many zones are there in KOTOR, 5? 6?

 

All Bioware games are super small, they've only recently dedicated themselves towards the illusion of space.

[Seraphim24]

should have simply told that, I agree scenario-wise ME2 was the best of the series

 

Sorry, most people associate Dragon Age 2 with smaller scale stuff, which makes some sense, Mass Effect 2 tacked on pretty flimsy collector thing and was more tethered to that in general, it's not as good an example but it would be more easy to compare it to MEA.

 

I'm going to edit my post again.

[straykat]

Sorry, most people associate Dragon Age 2 with smaller scale stuff, which makes some sense, Mass Effect 2 tacked on pretty flimsy collector thing. 

 

I'm going to edit my post again.

 

It's the Blues Brothers story in space. The collector stuff fills it out, but it's mostly about recruitments and seeing the world..and their personal stories. If anything, the fault was with some of the personal stories focusing on family too much. So called "daddy issues".

[Seraphim24]

It's the Blues Brothers story in space. The collector stuff fills it out, but it's mostly about recruitments and seeing the world..and their personal stories. If anything, the fault was with some of the personal stories focusing on family too much. So called "daddy issues".

 

Well remember also for me I am personally not so invested in the notion that "small scale" is the way, but clearly it works best for this company and their fans.

 

In general, the ME series is like a messy second cousin to DA, the trajectories and concepts are fundamentally identical, but the latter clearly gave birth to the former, and just like the relationship between DA and NWN, and possibly NWN and BG. 

 

Not trying to turn this into ME vs DA or something either, but yeah pretty much everything is the same, it's just slightly watered down, so that's why I don't think ME2 is as good an example.

[N7-MB]

It's the Blues Brothers story in space. The collector stuff fills it out, but it's mostly about recruitments and seeing the world..and their personal stories. If anything, the fault was with some of the personal stories focusing on family too much. So called "daddy issues".

while playing the warrior therapist recruiting sergeant wasn't all that fun, there was a sense of story: build the team, build the pressure, go with a bang & the fight goes on. the "outside the normal boundaries law" feeling was also nice. but the concept of loyalty missions was pretty new at the time

 

Sorry, most people associate Dragon Age 2 with smaller scale stuff, which makes some sense, Mass Effect 2 tacked on pretty flimsy collector thing and was more tethered to that in general, it's not as good an example but it would be more easy to compare it to MEA.

 

I'm going to edit my post again.

yet must wonder, in that case what kind of story would you have had for ME3?

because although the epic galactic scale isn't everybody's cup of tea, it was somehow the logical evolution of the series

anyway I doubt they'll give us an epic galaxy scale conflict right in the (hopefully) 1st game of this new series

[straykat]

Well remember also for me I am personally not so invested in the notion that "small scale" is the way, but clearly it works best for this company and their fans.

 

In general, the ME series is like a messy second cousin to DA, the trajectories and concepts are fundamentally identical, but the latter clearly gave birth to the former, and just like the relationship between DA and NWN, and possibly NWN and BG. 

 

I'm not sure it works best. It works best for me, but like the other guy earlier said, there's this other fanbase that loves that epic stuff.

 

It's kind of like the difference between me and other fantasy fans in general. I don't really like Tolkien either. I'm a Robert E Howard fan, as far as that early stuff goes. It's kind of the same thing. Small scale vs the epic/high fantasy stuff.

[Seraphim24]

yet must wonder, in that case what kind of story would you have had for ME3?

because although the epic galactic scale isn't everybody's cup of tea, it was somehow the logical evolution of the series

anyway I doubt they'll give us an epic galaxy scale conflict right in the (hopefully) 1st game of this new series

 

It seems like they could of invented someone else to deal it all, if that was within their purview, instead of Starchild have like a sci-Fi Gandalf just come down and handle of everything, it doesn't have to be the player or their allies themselves that triumph.

[Seraphim24]

I'm not sure it works best. It works best for me, but like the other guy earlier said, there's this other fanbase that loves that epic stuff.

 

It's kind of like the difference between me and other fantasy fans in general. I don't really like Tolkien either. I'm a Robert E Howard fan, as far as that early stuff goes. It's kind of the same thing. Small scale vs the epic/high fantasy stuff.

 

Well like Suikoden 2 is an example of a game that has pretty high stakes but in contrast to ME3, it was not ultimately an empty experience. It's possible to have larger scale stuff without it feeling kinda wacky, or say that the idea in general will always be a bad one.

 

I wasn't necessarily thinking of Tolkien is a good example, it's more like a story of a grand scale conflict that reached a resolution, not that anything about that process was clean or totally comprehensible.

 

The Hobbit is fairly superior to LOTR at any rate....

 

for... well.. pretty much the exact same reasons actually.

 

Or think about how bad Harry Potter was in the later books? Once it evolved past the ins and outs of Boarding School life and dating and became a more explicit Tolkien thing.. as if that wasn't clear based on things like Dumbledore = Gandalf etc.

[straykat]

Well like Suikoden 2 is an example of a game that has pretty high stakes but I don't think the trajectory was bungled necessarily. It's possible to have larger scale stuff without it feeling kinda wacky, or say that the idea in general will always be a bad one.

 

I wasn't necessarily thinking of Tolkien is a good example, it's more like a story of a grand scale conflict that reached a resolution, not that anything about that process was clean or totally comprehensible.

 

The Hobbit is fairly superior to LOTR at any rate.

 

I like the Hobbit more too.

 

It's more like I'm comparing sword+sorc vs high fantasy. The former is always more small scale and personal. Otherwise, both have magic and all of the other trappings.

[Seraphim24]

I like Hobbit more too.

 

It's more like I'm comparing sword+sorc vs high fantasy. The former is always more small scale and personal. Otherwise, both have magic and all of the other trappings.

 

That doesn't really make sense though because even Conan the Barbarian is fairly world shattering and epic at times, Thulsa Doom is a mad cultist possessed on fighting all kinds of people etc. It's probably much more heavily camoflauged though.

 

Sword & Sorcery can mean a lot of things really, they often aren't that different from each other.

 

Actually everyone in the universe would be offended by the example, but Dragon Ball Z Goku vs Freiza is actually another instance where the media alternately reflects a realistic view of the cost of saving the world similar to a Bioware game but instead actually the ultimate act of saving the world (well, or what's left of it)

 

Mass Effect is more akin to Evangelion, on the other side of that divide.

 

I'm not going to mince the comparision, Dragon Ball Z is a better anime than Evangelion, but by how much... and... who really cares anyway? All these things are pretty entertaining and interesting relative to the norm.