295 réponses à ce sujet

[straykat]

That doesn't really make sense though because even Conan the Barbarian is fairly world shattering and epic at times, Thulsa Doom is a mad cultist possessed on taking over this and that.

 

Sword & Sorcery can mean a lot of things really, they often aren't that different from each other.

 

Thulsa wasn't a big feature of the original stories though. But either way, Conan was scared of magic. I don't know who borrowed from who, but they corresponded.. but there's a similarity to Lovecraft there. Like it's a maddening thing that the hero would rather flee. Some of the stories come off more like horror.

[Seraphim24]

Thulsa wasn't a big feature of the original stories though. But either way, Conan was scared of magic. I don't know who borrowed from who, but they corresponded.. but there's a similarity to Lovecraft there. Like it's a maddening thing that the hero would rather flee. Some of the stories come off more like horror.

 

Lovecraft is pure deep threat Reaperness, it's simply a product of extremism in storytelling not dynamism.

 

I don't hate Lovecraft but it's really never been all that entertaining.

 

It's probably also worth nothing the unoriginality of the deeper threat Reaper arc generally, considering it's virtually identical to that of Star Control 3....

 

but also brings me back to my point, those aren't the games they want to make anyway. Whether it's a D&D clone, a Star Wars clone, or a Star Control 3 fanfic or something... it's all reducible to them not doing precisely what they want to be doing, which to me, is clearly evidenced by Dragon Age 2 or in the subset alternative Mass Effect 2.

 

The entire purpose of the OP was to point out that the fans or whatever people clamoring for the alternatives frankly probably haven't played or really care deeply about hardcore RPG mechancis, or they would of noticed Bioware games are essentially all similar in his regard.

 

I will very temporarly revist another point which was that a lot of people didn't like the all bisexual players in Dragon Age 2, which I was trying to say is just silly, as I said before, all Bioware games have like "Bisexual" characters, Dragon Age 2 just threw out the labels.

 

That seemed to get very not where I wanted to go though, and there's really no reason for me to get into it more.

[straykat]

but since I can't really find anything that truly encapsulates Conan, I wouldn't even know where to place it really anyway.

 

Queen of the Black Coast maybe. It's a short story. Most of his stuff was easy to digest..it's probably online somewhere. But he had a cool vision for his world (almost historical fiction) and could write some great action scenes.

[Lucca_de_Neon]

As mentioned in more detail later, None of Bioware's games are super complex RPGs, all of them are already simplified going all the way back to Baldur's Gate 1.

 

How many zones are there in KOTOR, 5? 6?

 

All Bioware games are super small, they've only recently dedicated themselves towards the illusion of space.

I have no idea because i'm no developer or designer or anything like that. What i do know is that i've never felt like that with DA:O and that's why i'll say all these thing about DA2 but not other games (since i haven't played DA:I yet)

[GoldenGail3]

I have no idea because i'm no developer or designer or anything like that. What i do know is that i've never felt like that with DA:O and that's why i'll say all these thing about DA2 but not other games (since i haven't played DA:I yet)

No wonder why you friended me!

[Seraphim24]

I have no idea because i'm no developer or designer or anything like that. What i do know is that i've never felt like that with DA:O and that's why i'll say all these thing about DA2 but not other games (since i haven't played DA:I yet)

 

Well as I was explaining to someone else, your problems with DA2 or other games could be more directly traceable to design philosophies emanating from DA1, depending, just because something is in one game or not the other doesn't mean it would logically be more directly tied to that game or the other.

 

No wonder why you friended me!

 

That someone who just happened to re-appear.

 

[Seraphim24]

Like, it should be obvious I'm not saying "Make Dragon Age 2 again"

 

I'm saying capture the essence of some of the most critically desired and appreciated elements of Dragon Age 2 and apply them to other games going forward.

[GoldenGail3]

 
That someone who just happened to re-appear.
 

Maybe Maybe I'm a likable person. That is a possibility!

[Seraphim24]

Queen of the Black Coast maybe. It's a short story. Most of his stuff was easy to digest..it's probably online somewhere. But he had a cool vision for his world (almost historical fiction) and could write some great action scenes. Mixed with the horror of the odd and fantastic.

 

I did come across some Conan stories in some other context than the movie, the problem though was it was so ruddy and flimsy at times, it seemed to me it had some notion of antiheroism that ultimately transformed into Tolkien superheroism before I knew it.

 

I don't know since he died at 30 if these were all ultimately bending towards some kind of different universe and the ideas were just like floating around unfinished, which is why I didn't mind treating the movie as somewhat symbolic since there was

 

Quoting from Wikipedia

 

"Queen of the Black Coast" is one of the original short stories about Conan the Cimmerian, written by American author Robert E. Howard and first published in Weird Tales magazine c. May 1934. It is set in the pseudo-historical Hyborian Age and concerns Conan becoming a notorious pirate and plundering the coastal villages of Kush alongside Bêlit, a head-strong femme fatale.

 

Lol seriously? That's almost exactly my silly idea, the mercenary who rolls along with their femme-fatalecompanion for MEA.

 

See I don't think it's hard antiheroism like Stormbringer necessarily it's more comic and silly antiheroism not too far removed from Firefly just 100 years ago or something.

 

Yeah... Conan and Robert E. Howards were basically Joss Whedon and Firefly in 1910 Texas.

[straykat]

I did come across some Conan stories in some other context than the movie, the problem though was it was so ruddy and flimsy at times, it seemed to me it had some notion of antiheroism that ultimately transformed into Tolkien superheroism before I knew it.

 

I don't know since he died at 30 if these were all ultimately bending towards some kind of different universe and the ideas were just like floating around unfinished, which is why I didn't mind treating the movie as somewhat symbolic since there was

 

Quoting from Wikipedia

 

"Queen of the Black Coast" is one of the original short stories about Conan the Cimmerian, written by American author Robert E. Howard and first published in Weird Tales magazine c. May 1934. It is set in the pseudo-historical Hyborian Age and concerns Conan becoming a notorious pirate and plundering the coastal villages of Kush alongside Bêlit, a head-strong femme fatale.

 

Lol seriously? That's almost exactly my silly idea, the mercenary who rolls along with their femme-fatalecompanion for MEA.

 

See I don't think it's hard antiheroism like Stormbringer necessarily it's more comic and silly antiheroism not too far removed from Firefly just 100 years ago or something.

 

Yeah... Conan and Robert E. Howards were basically Joss Whedon and Firefly in 1910 Texas.

 

It's not like Joss Whedon though. You should read it to compare. It's only 30 pages.

 

It's not high art though. It appeared in Weird Tales.. from a pessimistic, ultra conservative writer in the 1930s. It's pure pulp.

[Seraphim24]

It's pure pulp.

 

So is Joss Whedon.

 

I'm not sure what to make of your "high art" comment, which seems to otherwise imply a standard that cannot possibly be referenced for someone like me, given that I don' accept most conventionally or even alternatively accepted "high art" as in any way pertaining to their actual quality of the experience...

[straykat]

So is Joss Whedon.

 

Dude is weak. Like literally. Look at him.

 

Of course, Howard blew himself away with a shotgun.. so that's kind of a weak too. Just in a different way.

[OdanUrr]

And guess what they did in ME3? They went back to save the world and we all see how that freaking went.

 

In all fairness, that's not a problem with the "save the world" story but rather how it was executed. Furthermore, I enjoyed ME3 even if I found the endings disappointing.

[Lucca_de_Neon]

No wonder why you friended me!

I did it because i think you are fun

 

Well as I was explaining to someone else, your problems with DA2 or other games could be more directly traceable to design philosophies emanating from DA1, depending, just because something is in one game or not the other doesn't mean it would logically be more directly tied to that game or the other.

"other games"? no other game EVER made me think, after 50 hours of gameplay: "Mmmm i wonder what kind of creatures do i need to kick out of my cave this time :D". I think you are thinking about it in the wrong way. I just don't like to go into the same cave for hours and hours and unlock new sections of the cave as i progress through the game. If i wanted that, i would still be playing the very first Prince of Persia (that 2D beauty). It's not about the technical aspects, it's not about a design problem...it's about the simple fact that i don't want to be in the same cave for +80 hours xD just NO

[straykat]

In all fairness, that's not a problem with the "save the world story" but rather how it was executed. Furthermore, I enjoyed ME3 even if I found the endings disappointing.

 

I always feel different there than many. I don't care about the endings. I'm mostly bummed because ME2 and it's crew were forgotten.

[OdanUrr]

But that does look to me like the "choices don't matter" complaint was misunderstood. For example, I felt that my choices mattered little in DA2 because in the end, I had to off both Meredith and Orsino anyway. Leandra always died. Grace always turned against you. It would be nice it there could have been different outcomes to those things. It does not really follow that this complaint comes from a desire for more epic events. But that's just me, of course.

 

I agree with you that what pissed me off about DA2 no end was that no matter what you did the outcome was fixed. Try to save your mother? She dies anyway. Try to keep your brother/sister safe? The plot takes them away from you. Try to settle the conflict between the mages and the templars peacefully? F*** that, the plot requires you to murder everyone.

[GoldenGail3]

I did it because i think you are fun
 

I like the sound of that. Lol!

[GoldenGail3]

I agree with you that what pissed me off about DA2 no end was that no matter what you did the outcome was fixed. Try to save your mother? She dies anyway. Try to keep your brother/sister safe? The plot takes them away from you. Try to settle the conflict between the mages and the templars peacefully? F*** that, the plot requires you to murder everyone.

I love you people. Seriously; I wish you were there when the DA2 fans tried to gang up on me and failed becuase I simply didn't care enough. (No Cat; you weren't involved. It was me and AnimalBoy and he got all the likes and eventualily ended up telling me to go away XD It wasn't my fault he choice to agrue with me....)

[N7-MB]

I agree with you that what pissed me off about DA2 no end was that no matter what you did the outcome was fixed. Try to save your mother? She dies anyway. Try to keep your brother/sister safe? The plot takes them away from you. Try to settle the conflict between the mages and the templars peacefully? F*** that, the plot requires you to murder everyone.

agreed, too much railroading kills the mood to play

not having any feeling you have an impact upon the game story is the worse that can happen in these kind of games

[OdanUrr]

agreed, too much railroading kills the mood to play

 

It certainly does when you're going into a game expecting that you will be able to change the outcome somehow based on your choices. It would be a different thing entirely if I were playing, say, a Halo game where the story (what little there is of it nowadays) is fixed and I basically shoot my way from one cutscene to the next. It comes down to what fans expect from a game and how you handle those expectations.

[OdanUrr]

I love you people. Seriously; I wish you were there when the DA2 fans tried to gang up on me and failed becuase I simply didn't care enough. (No Cat; you weren't involved. It was me and AnimalBoy and he got all the likes and eventualily ended up telling me to go away XD It wasn't my fault he choice to agrue with me....)

 

I hazily recall discussing a lot about DA2 when it came out and the theme of choices and consequences. I gave up eventually because the discussion was becoming more heated and less productive, plus there's only so many times you can say the same thing before you start sounding like a broken record.

[N7-MB]

It certainly does when you're going into a game expecting that you will be able to change the outcome somehow based on your choices. It would be a different thing entirely if I were playing, say, a Halo game where the story (what little there is of it nowadays) is fixed and I basically shoot my way from one cutscene to the next. It comes down to what fans expect from a game and how you handle those expectations.

certainly, but I try to avoid these kind of games, because once I've gone through it, well I don't play them anymore, already seen it all

games where you have an impact on are better for me. played through it like this? taking totally different options next, plot stays the same but so much details vary I get satisfied with playing it again (that 's why I plan to start a femShep trilogy after my vacation)

[GoldenGail3]

I hazily recall discussing a lot about DA2 when it came out and the theme of choices and consequences. I gave up eventually because the discussion was becoming more heated and less productive, plus there's only so many times you can say the same thing before you start sounding like a broken record.

Yeah... I know. It's now funny to me (it's becuase I enjoy fighting with people on the interent probaly, lol). But anyhow, I probaly got my first blockage from that person anyhow. Yeah; I understand, they sure cared about my opinion on a game moving on...

[legbamel]

For me, DA2 and ME3 shared something I don't see on most games: the idea that my amazing, epic character is doomed to fail. Shep was done and I assumed from early in the game that she was going to die. With Hawke they had me going for a bit but on the end my earth-shaking prowess came to little more than a footnote, a bedtime story. I don't always want to fail in video games but if BioWare can keep coming up with reasons for me to want to try even in the face of certain death/doom, I'll keep buying their games.

[KaiserShep]

Like, it should be obvious I'm not saying "Make Dragon Age 2 again"

 

I'm saying capture the essence of some of the most critically desired and appreciated elements of Dragon Age 2 and apply them to other games going forward.

 

This is how I feel about it. Like, when I read something along the lines of making a game more like DA2, I don't think of the slapdash mob encounter designs, low-res polygon NPC's and the one cave of perpetual conflict, since those are obvious fail points, but rather the central cast dynamic,  and multi-stage companion quests (Fenris is not my favorite character, but probably has one of my favorite companion quest chains among all the cast members of the series). Plus, I greatly appreciate large doses of sarcasm and flippancy, which Hawke provides in spades.