Cullen will literally tell the Warden that he would’ve killed her, but he’ll feel bad about it. And its “nothing personal” as if that makes it ok. He also tells the Warden that he has a duty towards the Maker. Considering what the Harrowing actually is, that is one hell of a problematic view.
Then jump to the scene where we find him in the cage. He refers to the Warden as a “thing” he can’t have. And how shameful it is for him to have feelings for a mage “of all things.” So his dehumanizing view of mages existed long before Meredith and Kirkwall. And the Warden can react uncomfortably to this, so the game is aware that this is a, to put it mildly, problematic view.
With that in mind, his running away from the Warden if she flirts with him is less cute and more disturbing. Its easier for him to deal with his crush on the Warden as an unattainable thing. But if she flirts with him, she is suddenly acting like a person with wants and desires. And he can’t deal with that. Then add Sheryl Chee’s comments on what she thought would happen should Cullen decide to that he needs to “get the Warden out if his system.”
She clearly didn’t write him with the intention that it would or should be seen as cute.
Then in DA2, we’re told in a codex that he still holding on to his obsessions with the Warden. While allowing horrible abuses to occur because mages are not people. And comparing mages to a plague, by saying that they are fighting a losing battle since more mages are born everyday. This is continued in DAI where he compares Templars to Grey Wardens. Saying they devote their lives to fighting evil. Which implies that he thinks darkspawn/Blight and mages are basically the same thing. But where DA2 frames this opinion as negative, DA:I just lets it slide.
In DA:I, the mage Inquisitor can romance Cullen. Despite the fact that he clearly holds extreme views of mages. And despite the fact that he lies about his involvement in Kirkwall. That’s the only explanation that makes sense. Because if he isn’t lying, then his incompetence led to mages being raped/abused and murdered for years in Kirkwall. The Divine knew and sent Leliana to investigate. The Seekers knew and investigated. Anders knew and he lived in a sewer. But the man who was the second highest ranked Templar in Kirkwall didn’t know. And, logically, when Cullen says that Meredith kept things from him, the Inquisitor should be able to say “like what?”
The abuses at Kirkwall are widely known, what could Meredith possibly be doing that she kept it a secret? Even from her biggest fan? And since Cullen flatly informs you that Meredith kept things from him, you can assume that he has since found out what those things are. But does the game let you question him? Nope.
Though that conversation would be hilarious:
“Meredith lied to me.”
“About what?”
“I don’t know.”
Anyway... he lies to the Inquisitor about his involvement in Kirkwall. He also claims to have only treated mages with distrust and will try not to do so here. A promise he later breaks if you recruit the mages as allies. Or recruit the Avvar mage. Or ask his opinions on mages/templars in general. But he plays chess with Dorian so its all good!
The Inquisition is trying to end the mage/templar war. Kirkwall played a big part in that and Cullen was the Knight-Captain there. Which makes his recruitment even more shady. Yes, the mages would totally approach the organization who has the Knight-Captain from Kirkwall leading its armies. They would not feel threatened or suspect that the Inquisition is already allied with the Templars at all!
In fact, DAI completely fails at giving you a believable reason why Cullen is even there. Leliana is trained spy with years of experience and contacts and, with Cassandra, she is the backbone of the Inquisition. Josephine became the Antivan Ambassador when she was 18-19, has years of experience dealing with nobility and politics and is very much the reason the Inquisition doesn’t fall apart. While Cullen…was a prison guard who apparently impressed Cassandra with his "efforts" at rebuilding Kirkwall. Efforts that Varric shoots down since he makes it clear that things in Kirkwall are still ****. And the proper rebuilding doesn’t start until Varric starts paying for it himself. And Cullen’s approach to everything is “hit it with a sword until it does what I want” which tells me everything I needed to know about his skill or knowledge as a military commander.
Then the romance with a mage Inquisitor. Sure, the Inquisitor is the one pursuing him, but Cullen lacks the insight to wonder why a mage would want to be with him.
If he really felt as bad about Kirkwall as the game keeps telling (but never showing) us, then he would be concerned about what she thinks of him, of the things he has been apart of. There is no “are you sure about this? About me?” scene with Cullen.
Fenris is concerned about a mage Hawke being with him. Anders and Isabela are both concerned about Hawke being with them in general. Merrill worries her blood magic would put Hawke in danger. Sera warns a human Inquisitor that being with an elf can cause her problems.
No, with Cullen its all about him. How he feels. The line “whatever I fear of mages, I see none of that in you” is not sweet. Its disturbing. Mages are still horrible, but you….you are a unique breed of mage! Anyone who’s ever been “othered” because of their skin tone, religion, sexual orientation or gender knows exactly what the problem with that line is. Its similar to Solas backhanded compliment to the Inquisitor.
And now the subject of the writing in DAI being dishonest. Everyone keeps telling us what a great person Cullen is (Cole especially is used as a mouthpiece for the Cullen whitewash campaign), but the game never attempts to show us any of it. You have Cole saying that some Templars remember that mages are people, which is a clear reference/contradiction to Cullen in DA2, but we’re shown Cullen in DAI stating that there will be abominations among the mages if you allow them to be free allies. Cole’ again, will talk about Cullen being kind and yet we’re shown Cullen showing absolutely no sympathy to Samson in DAI or Keran in DA2.
If the writing for him had been honest, he would’ve been forced to confront his hatred. To confront what he calls torture, a mage would call a Harrowing. He never once deals with his own prejudice. If the Inquisitor has conflicting views with Sera about the Dalish, she will take them to heart. Which means that when you meet up with her in Trespasser, she’s grown up a lot. Thom Rainier goes by his real name in trying to redeem himself instead of hiding behind the real Blackwall. Basically, in Trespasser, some of the issues with the characters is adressed. Except for Cullen.
If a mage Inquisitor snarkily asks him if he would prefer that she was locked up in a tower like a good mage, he will assume the wounded puppy demeanor and change the subject. Basically making the Inquisitor look like an ass for even saying that. Even though they are within their right to have that opinion.
His “bad” ending in Trespasser is all about the horrible Inquisitor forcing an addict back on drugs and nothing about Cullen suffering the consequences of his actions.
Everything about Cullen in DAI is dishonest. The game pretends that you know nothing of the previous two games and makes Cullen’s word on the subject law. Various characters keeps praising him. In fact, the only one stated to not be crazy about him is Leliana. Varric even points out that she might shank Cullen at some point. In my game, this happened right after he had bugged her about my mage Warden, so I had no complains. It made sense. Pester Leliana about her girlfriend and she might shank you.
His entire character design makes no sense. He is going through horrible withdrawals and he should look worn out. Instead he looks perfectly healthy and his addiction is used for some fetishizing angst material. The song scene? Where Cullen sings along looking like he is seconds away from busting a nut? The one everyone made fun of because it looked so silly? Bioware actually made the animators change his animation in that scene and included it in a patch. One of the first patches for the game even. Fixing bugs, glitches and various mistakes in the game was clearly not as important as making sure their new Golden Boy wasn’t made fun of.
His entire section in WoT vol2 re-writes everything in DA2. If they ever do a re-mastered version of DA2, it wouldn’t surprise me if Cullen’s entire character was changed. Instead of beating up Wilmond, he is shown having tea with him or something equally stupid.
*From the Cullen Hate Blog.
Jeez, this is long. Funny how you somehow assume so much from the little thing I posted. I hope you feel better now that you got it out of your system.
I didn't miss the fact that he would probably lop Surana's/Amell's head off if necessary. I am well aware of it as I have ears. That's how things work in the Circles of Thedas. However, I think the entire system is a failure and it's short-sighted to have templars take all the blame because they're mostly tools. (Which doesn't mean they're not responsible in their own way.) It's definitely brutal that there has to be a bunch of guys with swords that need to be ready to kill you. However, I think it's even more brutal that the leaders of the Circle test you by planting a demon inside you which requires them to have templars in the first place. It's an idiotic, risky and broken way to do things overall and templars are part of that system because they're the best ones to make sure it goes relatively safely. Given that mages do happen to become abominations even in natural circumstances, the existence of warriors that can fight magic makes sense, though. Not saying I find the constant threat of decapitation romantic, but this vision of templars as somebody completely evil is rather black and white. (And, btw, what's cute and what isn't is highly subjective.)
Also, you do realise that the Circles have rules against fraternisation, right? That it is explained throughout the franchise that templars should stay away from the people they watch because emotional connection could get in the way of their duty and with their line of work they cannot afford to hesitate. In that case, "Sure, it would suck, but I would kill you if you became an abomination," because, you know, it's no longer you any more, is fairly understandable to me. Or do you have a better idea? Have you invented a way to cure abominations? Either way, that may be the reason for the "one thing I can never have" line or whatever that was. (BTW, I think singling out the word "thing" is nitpicking because it may [or may not] be ambiguous. When somebody says, "You're the best thing that's ever happened to me," does that mean the person thinks of me as a thing? I don't know how he meant it, so I don't want to argue about that. Just pointing out that it is rather ambiguous.) The only lines I remember related to this that the Warden can give is something along the lines of, "Stop, you're embarrassing me," and "I probably shouldn't be hearing this," which sure sounds uncomfortable but whether it's the Warden being creeped out or just flustered is a matter of perspective.
I have no idea what Sheryl Chee did or did not say because I don't follow any of the BW staff, so I'd be grateful if you provided a source or something instead of implying... Yeah, I don't know what you're implying. Murder? Alone time? Praying to the Maker? I don't know. (EDIT: Thanks to the info below I see this was merely an asspull on your part that never made it into the games in any shape or form.)
Also, what happens if somebody doesn't even transfer the save with the mage Warden? Like I never have. I've never transferred my mage Warden's save to the following games. However, I get it, it's part of the character under some specific circumstances. That's not to say it is not.
Either way, I've never said that I don't think that's wrong. No idea why you feel the urge to go all preachy on me. Saying that I find him to be an interesting character and/or that I understand what led him to this mindset in one specific situation does not mean that I approve of him keeping it, which is what I feel you're assuming by this huge post. That you're trying to "show me the light" or something. He actually admits in DAI that his treatment and views of mages were awful himself, he admits at different occasions that he was a terrible company back then, which is a good thing because it's true and because he needed to realise it eventually to improve as a person.
"But he plays chess with Dorian so its all good!" Well, that can't be healthy. Where you saw a mage and a templar playing chess, I saw two men enjoying their free time. Maybe because I don't see the mage-templar conflict everywhere. And if you don't have Dorian, he plays chess with Leliana.
Funnily enough, I felt that Kirkwall was an endless battle, too. On one side, stupid, cruel templars with their psycho leader. On the other, dumb as hell mages that turn to blood magic and into abominations like every five minutes. I don't know which side made me roll my eyes back further. I certainly don't remember anything he said being framed as evil because the game gave us rather complicated image of both mages and templars and tried really hard to explain how it's all a vicious circle, how it's all a rather complex issue. Which, to be honest, made me very unwilling to be anywhere near either side despite playing a mage Hawke myself. Thinking of templar work as "fighting evil" is not that much of a stretch, though, considering that templars do fight demons and abominations. I'm not saying what he says can't potentially be problematic, just that it depends.
I'm not sure what "extreme views of mages" you speak of in DAI, though. Actually, I started the game thinking that I was going to be bickering with Cullen about mages and templars all the time, only to find out that he grew out of most of his DAO tantrum. I was pleasantly surprised. He always treated my elven mage with respect and in romance he is completely honest with her about his past, about the fact his views of mages were abhorrent and the fact he realises that now. He may be against gathering a bunch of mages at a hole in the sky that's pouring out demons and gathering this much magic energy because he doesn't know what that's going to do, but that's about it. When I allied with mages, he grumbled for like ten seconds but that was about the most extreme thing I've experienced from him in DAI while playing a mage. He's worried about Inquisition mages possibly becoming abominations and feels there need to be some precautions, but so is Vivienne. Having a few templars just in case is common sense given what's going on in Redcliffe where free mages are causing damage because some of them, like children, having trouble controlling their magic. I disagree with the Circles and templar supervision as much as the next person, but we've seen enough proof that mages do need education at the very least for the sake of their own safety and safety of others and, sadly, Circles for education and templars for safety is the best some parts of Thedas have come up with so far. Dalish provide education for their own and keep the number of mages at minimum within each clan and when one of them becomes an abomination, they have to kill it, too. Not saying any of it is ideal or even good, but that's how it is before somebody comes up with a smarter solution. (I was actually absolutely fascinated with the Avvar because they have a completely different approach to these things [and I wonder how effective it is in general] and I think the rest of Thedas could learn from it. Perhaps even from Tevinter, but Tevinter has problems of its own.)
As for the "backhanded compliment", you're being ridiculous. Particular skin colour or pointy ears can't kill people. Magic can. Apples and oranges. Most of Thedas' population fears magic. For a reason. Or did you not play through Broken Circle, the entirety of Dragon Age II, In Hushed Whispers where magic destroys the whole world? Cullen answers honestly to a question you're asking, that you brought up. (Paraphrased:) "Do you have a problem with my being a mage, is it a problem for our relationship?" - "Magic might scare me, but you don't, I'm sorry if I gave you a reason to doubt," is a perfectly fair and sweet answer. You're reaching so goddamn hard to be offended, it's not even funny.
I don't believe he lies about his experiences in Kirkwall because he tells the Inquisitor a bunch of other, not exactly flattering things about himself in that regard. If he cared about maintaining image, he probably wouldn't feel like confessing any of that at all. I think it's more that the writing didn't address it or the writers forgot to address it. Am I right? I don't know. Just like you don't know for sure that he lies and you're merely speculating, then presenting it as truth. I sure wouldn't mind getting into it myself, though. Either way, Anders probably knew because he used to live in the Circle and because he kept connections with people from the Kirkwall Circle. The Divine knew something nasty was going on in Kirkwall and, hell, who didn't know something nasty was going on in Kirkwall as regards both templars and mages? As far as I know, there was a talk of an exalted march because of all the trouble with the mages, not templars... which is terrifying. The Seekers were trying to prevent the mage-templar conflict at which they failed. Cassandra herself says the conflict was even beyond the Seekers.
I don't remember anybody mentioning Cullen was helping rebuild. He was merely commanding the remaining templar forces, as far as I know. Also, you did notice that the war table operation advisors are good for different things, yes? Like Josephine fails at some tasks that Cullen succeeds at and vice versa. Which is kind of the point. To be honest though, I've always thought that BW struggled with writing military commanders regardless of game. Look at Loghain in DAO or Anderson and Hackett in ME3. I don't think that the fact Cassandra snatched him away while being in Kirkwall, with him being one of the few remaining authorities there with direct experience of the mage-templar conflict, is so far-fetched, though. Although I do think that commanding templars is much different than commanding military operations. Cullen actually breaks my brain the least from those I've seen so far, however, which is not to say his writing is perfect.
During and outside of romance with Cullen, you can bring your being a mage up several times, actually. (I agree he should bring it up himself, as well.) At some point, he asks her whether she likes him even after everything, so there is some self-reflection from him, even though I wouldn't at all mind if there were more options to talk about it, just like I would like more options to talk about his experiences in the Fereldan and Kirkwall Circles, see how he deals with his lyrium addiction, etc. But I suppose they only had so much time and resources for everything and everyone.
"From the Cullen Hate Blog." Pathetic. All I have to say is that both passionate love and passionate hate blinds you and that you're being a bit emotional here. While I think you definitely point out some issues with the writing and Cullen's flaws as a person and character, I also think that you work under the assumption that people, and characters for that matter, can never change or develop, that they can never improve, that they can't have issues and still be decent people, that they can't be a part of a broken system but with good intentions, that there's only black and white, etc. Worse, you feel the need to school me, assuming I don't know that Cullen is a character with rather problematic past that was, until Inquisition, a part of multiple rather problematic organisations. He's not the only one, either. Just like he's not the only writers' pet in this franchise. (Look at Leliana that wants to solve so many issues just by killing people, cutting their tongues out, etc., etc., etc., that has some internalised racist views in DAO, that killed people and thought it was fun, that was even raised from the dead for some players. And, no, I don't dislike Leliana, either. I appreciate her for what she is.) But, if you felt like venting about how much you dislike him, happy to help.
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