11 réponses à ce sujet

[Bayonet Hipshot]

From my observation, it seems to me that at the moment, Elves in Thedas have the best chance of having a good life if they are mages.

The same cannot be said for Humans (except in Tevinter where their life improves if they are mages) and Qunari (who get their mouth sewn shut and tongue cut off). Due to the respective social structures, the average Human and Qunari will lead a better life as a non mage.

Why ?

Elves who live among human societies are typically treated like trash and dirt or as slaves.

If they are mages, they get sent to Circles of Magi where they get free education, free food, free shelter and the like. Sure the Circle Tower might be a form of life imprisonment, but it surely is a lot better than being treated like scum and being an indentured servant.

In places like Tevinter, the only real way Elves can make a decent living is to be born as a mage and be part of the Laetans. Otherwise the Elves are just screwed.

As for Elves who live outside of Human socieites like the Dalish, mage life is a bit tricky because some clans have a weird two rule limit on mage apprentices but in general they are accepted by many Dalish clans.

Furthermore, Elves are innately magical and innately attuned to the Fade (check out Sera & Solas banters for more on this). There is also the fact that powerful ancient magics respond better to Elves (the Crossroads looks and feels different for Elves and Humans).

Thoughts & Comments ?

I am interested to see what others think about this.

[Riot Inducer]

On the whole yeah, as mages elves often get all sorts of opportunities and are treated as equals to their human counterparts, that's something that they'd never get in the rest of society. Of course each circle and each mage's experience are different, all it takes is one cruel templar or someone with a touch of wanderlust to make the prison analogy start to feel all too literal. 

 

I've never really thought about that before but it is something to consider. How many mages do you encounter that were unhappy with the circle? How many were humans vs. elves? Be interesting to see if elves were, at least by game encountered examples, more ok with the Circles than humans. 

[In Exile]

On the whole yeah, as mages elves often get all sorts of opportunities and are treated as equals to their human counterparts, that's something that they'd never get in the rest of society. Of course each circle and each mage's experience are different, all it takes is one cruel templar or someone with a touch of wanderlust to make the prison analogy start to feel all too literal. 

 

I've never really thought about that before but it is something to consider. How many mages do you encounter that were unhappy with the circle? How many were humans vs. elves? Be interesting to see if elves were, at least by game encountered examples, more ok with the Circles than humans. 

 

Dalish mages aren't treated as equals. They're a completely privileged class. They're horse-traded like a valuable resource. The Dalish religious narrative frames them as the ubersmench ideal of elves. They have their own distinctive and unique leadership position: the Keeper, who as far as we see in-game rules almost dictatorially. In terms of their relative standard compared with mundanes, the Dalish are on the other end of the scale. More than even the Avaar. 

[GoldenGail3]

Dalish Mages are fine. I suppose.

[Andromelek]

Dalish mages aren't treated as equals. They're a completely privileged class. They're horse-traded like a valuable resource. The Dalish religious narrative frames them as the ubersmench ideal of elves. They have their own distinctive and unique leadership position: the Keeper, who as far as we see in-game rules almost dictatorially. In terms of their relative standard compared with mundanes, the Dalish are on the other end of the scale. More than even the Avaar.

Unless there are many mages, then being a mage it's an automatic ticket for exile.

[vertigomez]

OT, but this makes me wonder about what happens to qunari mages who 1) aren't part of the Qun and 2) don't have the dumb luck of surviving a Conclave explosion and falling out of the Fade. Are they taken to Circles, or just killed on-sight for being too much of an unknown?

[In Exile]

Unless there are many mages, then being a mage it's an automatic ticket for exile.

 

That's still better than the short straw in the Circle, which is automatic lobotomy, or being forcibly turned into an abomination and massacred. Ignoring all the potential for Kirkwall-esque abuse. Lowest person on the Dalish hierarchy still does better, IMO. 

[In Exile]

OT, but this makes me wonder about what happens to qunari mages who 1) aren't part of the Qun and 2) don't have the dumb luck of surviving a Conclave explosion and falling out of the Fade. Are they taken to Circles, or just killed on-sight for being too much of an unknown?

In DA:I? Assuming there even were apostate Qunari/Vashoth mercenaries who didn't splat all over the floor, every mage was an apostate. Just like the Circle mages, they'd probably get rolled into the Inquisition if they signed up.

 

Or do you mean generally? They might just automatically be deemed to be a maleficarum and killed. The Qunquisitor has a story that suggest some... unsavory magic the Chantry wouldn't exactly condone in one war story with Josephine.  

[vertigomez]

In DA:I? Assuming there even were apostate Qunari/Vashoth mercenaries who didn't splat all over the floor, every mage was an apostate. Just like the Circle mages, they'd probably get rolled into the Inquisition if they signed up.
 
Or do you mean generally? They might just automatically be deemed to be a maleficarum and killed. The Qunquisitor has a story that suggest some... unsavory magic the Chantry wouldn't exactly condone in one war story with Josephine.

Thank you. And yeah, I just meant generally. It makes sense that the assumption would be that they're maleficar. And I imagine it'd be difficult to integrate a seven foot tall horned person in a Circle full of elves and humans...

[Ghost Gal]

I hadn't thought of it that way, but yeah... I guess you could make the argument. 

 

I will say though that how great it is being an elven mage in the Circle depends on whether you think racism against elves exists there and to what extent (I personally have a hard time believing human mages and Templars who were raised outside just magically check all their socially ingrained prejudices at the door like a coat), and whether you think Circle life is better than alienage life.

 

While city elves live with poverty, racism, violence-against-elves, etc. at least they're among family, community, and can (more-or-less) choose which craphole they wanna live in. In the Circle, not only is it effective life imprisonment, but they're cut off from their family, their community, they can't safely fall in love, they can't get married, and any children they might have will get taken from them. Sure, they live in more physical comfort, but they lose the things that (arguably) make life worth living. If you talk to some of the mages in Redcliffe in DAI, you'll come across a Circle elf who didn't like the Circle, and who remembers when he came into his magic and the Templars unceremoniously dragged him out of the alienage, where all his family and friends were. "I didn't even get to say good bye."

 

So I guess it depends on how you look at it.

[Patchwork]

However the Circles and the College are set up after DAI (and I doubt we'll find out any time soon) it seems likely that Vashoth mages will be taken in if they don't put up too much of a fight but the obvious Qun/Tal Vashoth ones will probably be killed sooner rather than later.

 

I think on the whole CE do have a better life as a Circle/College mage, it's a higher standard of living and while they probably have to be twice as good as their human peers there's nothing they're barred from solely because of race. A mage is a mage first and foremost. Even the gilded cage of the old Cirlces would be better than the dirty cage of an Alienage.    

[Ashagar]

That's still better than the short straw in the Circle, which is automatic lobotomy, or being forcibly turned into an abomination and massacred. Ignoring all the potential for Kirkwall-esque abuse. Lowest person on the Dalish hierarchy still does better, IMO. 

 

True unless your from the clan of that elven mage apprentice who protected the tranquil and joined the inquisition who got left to die in the woods and got saved by the templars.(Why is the templars can only do good if A. they get killed in game doing it or B. its off screen). Though that clans was likely as much of a odd ball as those elves near that glass making Marquise who offer up their enemies to no known elven gods.

 

I did notice that that only way for city elves to reach any sort of authority is B. be a member of the circles where they can become, a enchanter and even first enchanter or enter the service of the divine as one of her Knight enchanters which like the Knights divine serve the divine directly or B. become Hahren.