1204 réponses à ce sujet

[SlottsMachine]

Spoiler

 

 

It's usually someone else's gif, but what the hell:

 

LOL. That never gets old.

 

Yeah, we already had some 'drunk Hei' in this thread. Always room for more though. 

 

Season 2 spawned that gif so it can't be all bad. 

[Laughing_Man]

It actually makes lethal options really dark when non lethal options are as effective or more effective.

 

But that's just it, it's illogical / unrealistic, and therefore the whole "darkness" feels contrived.

 

(It's easier to punch someone hard enough to cause real damage than it is to precisely hit him in a spot that will cause only unconsciousness,

same with weapons)

 

 

Yeah, we already had some 'drunk Hei' in this thread. Always room for more though. LOL. That never gets old.

 

I don't even know who that is, just searched for "drunk anime guy" or something.

[Lady Artifice]

I have no illusions about the logical failings of the Batman mythos, especially as applies to the Arkham series, but I still love it so so much.

[FKA_Servo]

I have no illusions about the logical failings of the Batman mythos, especially as applies to the Arkham series, but I still love it so so much.

 

I really want to play Arkham Knight, but... PC. I'm not even going there. Not even now that it's ostensibly been "fixed." Hopefully, I'll snag a PS4 at some point, at which time it'll be a no-brainer.

 

I also have Arkham Origins, but I've never actually played it. It came with a GPU a couple of years ago. Any good?

[Iakus]

Maybe. Even in ME2, I'd hardly call it excessive, though. Just a little bit clumsy in its application (and subsequently improved).

 

I'd still rather the language suit the character, and that the cast of characters include characters like that, although I am still obviously on board with such characters (any characters really) being optional to recruit. For all the dramatics, I can't imagine the Aria scene playing out with a more lightweight term. "Don't screw with Aria" just makes me snicker.

Jack, of course, was required to recruit, though.

 

And while I don't think "Don't screw with Aria" would be all that bad, the use of her phrase is an example of emphasis.  

 

I much prefer the Precision F-Strike to the Cluster F-Bomb, however "justified"

[Laughing_Man]

Not even now that it's ostensibly been "fixed."

 

I don't think this term is accurate...

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Never said that. I'm just skeptical, and also wouldn't want this to become the standard in gameplay. In special situations, sure,

but I still want to be able to shoot hostiles with a shotgun in my FPS/TPS games without being called a monster by the game for not

resorting to some implausible non-lethal solution. (because I bet that like in deus ex the game will react to the "selflessness" of shooting people with the magic non-lethal gun instead of real bullets)

I never said you should be seen as a monster for using lethal means. If anything, both ways should gain you enemies and friends among your peers, depending on their views on things. 

 

But that's just it, it's illogical / unrealistic, and therefore the whole "darkness" feels contrived.

How is it illogical/unrealistic for lethal options being more effective? You've been arguing that this whole time. 

[Dalakaar]

I don't even know who that is, just searched for "drunk anime guy" or something.

If you replace "anime" with "ME3MPer" google just links to my profile here for some reason.

 

Okay I lied it links to Deckardwasareplicant. Close enough.

[FKA_Servo]

I don't think this term is accurate...

 

Yeah. Hence the scare quotes. It's a damn shame, though.

 

Jack, of course, was required to recruit, though.

 

And while I don't think "Don't screw with Aria" would be all that bad, the use of her phrase is an example of emphasis.  

 

I much prefer the Precision F-Strike to the Cluster F-Bomb, however "justified"

 

Yeah - making that whole mess of people optional would have gone a long way to improving ME2. They fixed that in DA. Though with the smaller cast of MEA (which I'm in favor of) that might be a little tougher to balance.

 

I think "Don't Mess with Aria" would have been fine. Unremarkable, but not as silly as "screw." If I heard "Don't screw with Aria" I would have just said to myself "What the hell, why wouldn't they just go the whole hog?"

 

But then, Bioware making baffling artistic choices is pretty unremarkable at this point as well.

[Lady Artifice]

I really want to play Arkham Knight, but... PC. I'm not even going there. Not even now that it's ostensibly been "fixed." Hopefully, I'll snag a PS4 at some point, at which time it'll be a no-brainer.

 

I also have Arkham Origins, but I've never actually played it. It came with a GPU a couple of years ago. Any good?

 

My feelings about Arkham Origins are conflicted. I think it's the weakest of the series, but considering how high my opinion of the series is, that's not actually a very harsh condemnation.

 

The thing is, you're playing a younger Batman, a less refined and experienced Batman. I didn't enjoy it as much, but in my opinion it's still a valuable contribution to the franchise.

 

Plus, it's the only one where Alfred actually appears and participates in cutscenes. Though that might not count for much to people who aren't me.

[Laughing_Man]

How is it illogical/unrealistic for lethal options being kore effective? You've been arguing that this whole time. 

 

I'll quote my edit:

 

It's easier to punch someone hard enough to cause real damage than it is to precisely hit him in a spot that will cause only unconsciousness, same with weapons.

 

You have to be extremely precise, and also lucky, even when using "non-lethal" weapons not to kill someone, especially when those weapons are powerful enough to punch through serious defenses, as the energy required to do this is more than enough to kill.

[FKA_Servo]

My feelings about Arkham Origins are conflicted. I think it's the weakest of the series, but considering how high my opinion of the series is, that's not actually a very harsh condemnation.

 

The thing is, you're playing a younger Batman, a less refined and experienced Batman. I didn't enjoy it as much, but in my opinion it's still a valuable contribution to the franchise.

 

Plus, it's the only one where Alfred actually appears and participates in cutscenes. Though that might not count for much to people who aren't me.

 

If punching goons is as satisfying as it is in the other games, I'll probably like it. My backlog is just really gross.

[rapscallioness]

I think the amount of swearing in BW games is fine the way it is now. More swearing would not bother me, and less swearing would not bother me....as long as they don't use terms like, "potty mouth". Gods preserve us!

 

Swearing used by the right character at the right times is great by me. Swearing, or the lack of it, is a character trait. It is characterization when one npc will curse with foul language, and another will say, "fudge". Both reactions help in characterization. So, balance. A few nice salty curse words here and there, and a few "fudgecakes and fiddlesticks"! Or a kind of cool, cerebral reaction.

 

It reminds me of a Spock vs Kirk type of thing. One being all in his head, and one all in his heart. Disengaged reason vs entangled emotion. Both people just have very different ways of experiencing, interacting with, and reacting to their world.

 

Although, I'm not sure what swearing has to do with being politically in/correct.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I'll quote my edit:

 

It's easier to punch someone hard enough to cause real damage than it is to precisely hit him in a spot that will cause only unconsciousness, same with weapons.

 

You have to be extremely precise, and also lucky, even when using "non-lethal" weapons not to kill someone, especially when those weapons are powerful enough to punch through serious defenses, as the energy required to do this is more than enough to kill.

The protagonists we play are very skilled and lucky, thus fit the criteria. 

[Laughing_Man]

The protagonists we play are very skilled and lucky, thus fit the criteria. 

 

Come on Hanako, admit it, you know that it's a stretch. We are talking about high energy weapons that can punch through super space armor here, not kung-fu...

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Come on Hanako, admit it, you know that it's a stretch. We are talking about high energy weapons that can punch through super space armor here, not kung-fu...

No more of a stretch than dozens of other things in Mass Effect. At least this one wouldn't shatter the suspension of disbelief like the character outfits in ME2 or ME3. Does it take skill? Yes. But skill is something you can train yourself to improve. So I see no stretch in the protagonist training themselves to be able to do it. And again, if you don't like it, don't do it. That's the glory of options.

[Laughing_Man]

No more of a stretch than dozens of other things in Mass Effect. At least this one wouldn't shatter the suspension of disbelief like the character outfits in ME2 or ME3. Does it take skill? Yes. But skill is something you can train yourself to improve. So I see no stretch in the protagonist training themselves to be able to do it.

And again, if you don't like it, don't do it. That's the glory of options. But instead you seem to just want to force what you want on everybody. 

 

I'm equally against those other things that break suspension of disbelief, and I would argue that this breaks suspension of disbelief to the same degree.

 

Also, this is about conservation of energy, not skill.

If your gun is powerful enough to penetrate kinetic barriers and armor, it will be powerful enough to cause damage to a squishy human.

 

But we can agree to disagree, I'm completely fine with that, I wouldn't want to force you to do anything.

[FKA_Servo]

No more of a stretch than dozens of other things in Mass Effect. At least this one wouldn't shatter the suspension of disbelief like the character outfits in ME2 or ME3. Does it take skill? Yes. But skill is something you can train yourself to improve. So I see no stretch in the protagonist training themselves to be able to do it. 

 

If a stealthy playstyle ends up being a legitimate and workable option open to the player, maybe. But I think that - in a party based shooter like Mass Effect, based on what we can infer from precedent and from what we know about MEA - the notion of a completely non-lethal path through the game is a pretty huge stretch. Again, that doesn't extend to story decisions and scenarios like Feros (which I'd love to see more of), but every combat encounter? I haven't played DEHR, but at least in Dishonored, every enemy encounter is like a setpiece - they're not set up as cannon fodder like they are in ME (and most other shooters that come to mind). It would either be extremely weird and out of place, or it would require a drastic re-design of the fundamental gameplay.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I'm equally against those other things that break suspension of disbelief, and I would argue that this breaks suspension of disbelief to the same degree.

 

Also, this is about conservation of energy, not skill.

If your gun is powerful enough to penetrate kinetic barriers and armor, it will be powerful enough to cause damage to a squishy human.

 

But we can agree to disagree, I'm completely fine with that, I wouldn't want to force you to do anything.

How are outfits that defy the laws of the universe equal to non-lethal combat options? The former is impossible and goes against the lore, while the other while challenging is possible in the lore. 

 

If its not about skill, then why did you bring up precision earlier?

Except it wouldn't need to penetrate armor. The example I used involved shorting the armor out making the person unable to move thus unable to fight. You don't need to fully penetrate armor to do that. 

 

Yeah, agree to disagree. 

Well, other than things like experience the game have swearing and profanity you mean. 

 

If a stealthy playstyle ends up being a legitimate and workable option open to the player, maybe. But I think that - in a party based shooter like Mass Effect, based on what we can infer from precedent and from what we know about MEA - the notion of a completely non-lethal path through the game is a pretty huge stretch. Again, that doesn't extend to story decisions and scenarios like Feros (which I'd love to see more of), but every combat encounter? I haven't played DEHR, but at least in Dishonored, every enemy encounter is like a setpiece - they're not set up as cannon fodder like they are in ME (and most other shooters that come to mind). It would either be extremely weird and out of place, or it would require a drastic re-design of the fundamental gameplay.

No, it wouldn't. All Bioware would have to do is make it a mod for the gun and/or ammo. Shoot the target, and they slump to the ground like they would if killed by normal shots. That's less of a redesign to the gameplay than using ammo like pyro or cryo or the gore shots(heads exploding if headshot by a powerful weapon), which has to add more effects and trigger more things. Story-wise it may take more effort, but I stand by that with how they game may be set up, having how you deal with enemies could be beneficial to the story and roleplaying.

[Ahglock]

Maybe because I grew up on Star Trek but energy weapons being able to stun/knock out people doesn't seem far fetched for
Sci Fi. Blunt trauma knocking people out when they get rattled in their armor without breaking bones doesn't seem that far out there either.

[Lady Artifice]

If punching goons is as satisfying as it is in the other games, I'll probably like it. My backlog is just really gross.

 

Oh, it's every bit as satisfying. He moves like a dancer, hits like a train, and they just...crumple. Like paper. It's such a good way to unwind at the end of a frustrating day.

[FKA_Servo]

No, it wouldn't. All Bioware would have to do is make it a mod for the gun and/or ammo. Shoot the target, and they slump to the ground like they would if killed by normal shots. That's less of a redesign to the gameplay than using ammo like pyro or cryo or the gore shots(heads exploding if headshot by a powerful weapon), which has to add more effects and trigger more things. Story-wise it may take more effort, but I stand by that with how they game may be set up, having how you deal with enemies could be beneficial to the story and roleplaying.

 

Story-wise, I feel like they'd have to twist themselves in knots to justify such a thing. If we're the MW's last hope for re-establishing civilization in Andromeda, the stakes are high enough that someone who insisted on tranking every last hostile they encountered would be relieved of command tuite de suite. There will be plenty of opportunities for benevolence (as there should be), but having that extend to the combat, where you're facing a wide variety of different enemies and you've got two party members in tow, I just don't see how it makes sense. That's based on the assumption that the game will be set up more or less the same as the three prior games.

 

If you were a single character, under extremely different circumstances, it would be an entirely different story. There are reasons why a non-lethal run might be desirable and consistent in Dishonored. But frankly, in a party game with no real stealth approach open to us, I can't see how it would make any sense.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Story-wise, I feel like they'd have to twist themselves in knots to justify such a thing. If we're the MW's last hope for re-establishing civilization in Andromeda, the stakes are high enough that someone who insisted on tranking every last hostile they encountered would be relieved of command tuite de suite. There will be plenty of opportunities for benevolence (as there should be), but having that extend to the combat, where you're facing a wide variety of different enemies and you've got two party members in tow, I just don't see how it makes sense. That's based on the assumption that the game will be set up more or less the same as the three prior games.

 

If you were a single character, under extremely different circumstances, it would be an entirely different story. There are reasons why a non-lethal run might be desirable and consistent in Dishonored. But frankly, in a party game with no real stealth approach open to us, I can't see how it would make any sense.

*Disgusted noise*, Ark Theory. 

 

I don't see why they would be relieved of command. If they get the job done, what's the problem? 

[Laughing_Man]

Well, other than things like experience the game have swearing and profanity you mean. 

 

For me it's similar, but the issue of swearing is even more destructive to suspension of disbelief than other things that can be handwaved with Sci-fi explanations.

 

It is most likely that the human condition will not be drastically dissimilar from today in 200 years, even if technology changes.

 

I also don't want to see religious views dictating what goes into video games, if it offends your sensibilities / religion, just don't play it.

(just like there are many types of entertainment I don't partake in)

[Lady Artifice]

Story-wise, I feel like they'd have to twist themselves in knots to justify such a thing. If we're the MW's last hope for re-establishing civilization in Andromeda, the stakes are high enough that someone who insisted on tranking every last hostile they encountered would be relieved of command tuite de suite. There will be plenty of opportunities for benevolence (as there should be), but having that extend to the combat, where you're facing a wide variety of different enemies and you've got two party members in tow, I just don't see how it makes sense. That's based on the assumption that the game will be set up more or less the same as the three prior games.

 

If you were a single character, under extremely different circumstances, it would be an entirely different story. There are reasons why a non-lethal run might be desirable and consistent in Dishonored. But frankly, in a party game with no real stealth approach open to us, I can't see how it would make any sense.

 

It would, at the very least, become a really significant plot decision. I don't know about Deus Ex, but in the Arkham games it's a very important aspect of the story. People are constantly berating/applauding Batman for his no kill policy, or trying to tempt and harass him into breaking it.

 

Someone who is associated with a millitary endeavor, even tangentally, refusing to engage in life or death combat would be a seriously controversial figure. Someo people might approve, but a lot of others would dismiss them as dangerously naive and criminally negligent, especially considering how often terrorism has come up in this series.