1204 réponses à ce sujet

[SentinelMacDeath]

a lot of games were ruined by "requested" features but really ... who buys a game like GoW but expects it to be something it clearly isn't? Tough bara dudes, cussing and gore. It's like buying FIFA and being outraged by all the soccer (Fußball! wohooo)

[Lady Artifice]

Quite true, and it's because of its nowadays vulgar use that I don't like hearing it or using it, rather than the history - which I do find interesting.

 

For my part, I would be no more endeared by being called a less vulgar synonym. I mean, if someone is being called a sexual organ, how much does it really matter whether the particular variation of the name is considered appropriate in conversation?

[Elhanan]

Only by you, and maybe a couple of others. The unwashed masses aren't clamoring for it, apparently. It also seems to have been dropped as of the third game. The last few installments haven't had it.
 
Possibly because it's a pointless feature.
 
Edit to add that the Penny Arcade comic is spot on. If the context and intent of the curse words remains completely intact... how is that necessarily any different? If you hear the bleep, you're gonna mentally fill in the blank.
 
I just don't get it.

Obviously. I do not even play the GoW series, yet the language toggle remains a feature in those games. If nobody wants it, it would seem to be an expense that that company could eliminate quickly. But it appears to remain.

There is an audience for such a feature, and hope that Bioware will be the ones to advance the cRPG market.

[Sartoz]

Going a bit OT, but are there any Ben Bova fans here? I thought As On a Darkling Plain had one of the best uses of profaniity-for-emphasis that I've ever seen in any medium. The protagonist drops the F-bomb, for the first time anyone does in the entire work, about two pages from the end of the book.

And yes, it's one of those occasions where, really, nothing else would do.

Incidentally, that book shares some plot elements with ME, though I'm not aware of the staff citing it as inspiration.

                                                                                                   <<<<<<<<<<(0)>>>>>>>>>>

 

Leaving home, I took about 2,400 sci-fi paperbacks with me (many, many 2nd hand at 35 cents). Ben Bova was in there, somewhere.   Haven't stopped reading.

 

Interesting enough, I don't recall sci-fi literature from Jules Verne to the 70s,  containing F-Bombs. I'm saying, in a roundabout way, that  a good story can be F-Bombless and so can ME:A if the writers are any good. Besides, the game is targeted at teenagers as well and what kind of example is writing a game with F-Bombs in it?

[FKA_Servo]

Obviously. I do not even play the GoW series, yet the language toggle remains a feature in those games. If nobody wants it, it would seem to be an expense that that company could eliminate quickly. But it appears to remain.

 

They did eliminate it. I just said that they did.

 

I guess they could build a time machine and use that to travel back in time to remove it from the first three games that did have it, but that seems like an even more frivolous expense.

 

There is an audience for such a feature, and hope that Bioware will be the ones to advance the cRPG market.

 

The age old question is whether the audience is large enough that catering to them is worthwhile. I highly doubt it. And obviously, I hope they don't on principle, because again - pointless.

[Malleficae]

If you get beaten up and still want to get up one f-word won't be bad - it would be actually good. Or when you're training, running low on energy and still want to keep up. Just don't do it in DAI way - all "bad" words were awkward, like in kid's mouth. 

[Lady Artifice]

And yet note the complete omission of the term in the first two games, expansions, and DLC. That is again omitted in the lore that does appear seems to support the extant euphemism; not the modern utterance. And I am unaware of Varric ever using the bomb.

 

This is completely nonsensical. If a word is compatible with the era that the story is loosely based on, there's no reason to assume it doesn't exist within that story universe. Writers don't need to establish every word they intend to use early on, that would be absurd. There's just too many possible words, even just counting curses and slang.

 

Prefer not to include it.

 

 

No kidding.

[FKA_Servo]

Interesting enough, I don't recall sci-fi literature from Jules Verne to the 70s,  containing F-Bombs. I'm saying, in a roundabout way, that  a good story can be F-Bombless and so can ME:A if the writers are any good. Besides, the game is targeted at teenagers as well and what kind of example is writing a game with F-Bombs in it?

 

Ok, but does having a little bit (and let's face it, it's just a little bit) of "objectionable" language then invalidate its worth? And would you really consider anything that Bioware has released to be gratuitous? If we're worried about F bombs, well, you can count those dropped in DAI on one hand.

 

I find it impossible to care about impressionable teenagers. If they're old enough to play the game, then they're old enough to know what's appropriate and when.

[Elhanan]

This is completely nonsensical. If a word is compatible with the era that the story is loosely based on, there's no reason to assume it doesn't exist within that story universe. Writers don't need to establish every word they intend to use early on, that would be absurd. There's just too many possible words, even just counting curses and slang....

And yet they already have. Wish they would have stuck with it.

[FKA_Servo]

And yet they already have. Wish they would have stuck with it.

 

Where on earth did they do this?

 

Not in the codex you posted earlier (which I believe is from DAI, and not an earlier game).

[Elhanan]

Where on earth did they do this?
 
Not the codex you posted earlier.

In DAO, the Dwarves used another term for the bomb. And the insult about being the King's Wiper was far more effective than actually using vulgarity.

[FKA_Servo]

In DAO, the Dwarves used another term for the bomb. And the insult about being the King's Wiper was far more effective than actually using vulgarity.

 

Ok? That's supposed to be conclusive? Elves use elven curses, dwarves use dwarven curses, and apparently humans (like Blackwall) use human curses? And sometimes there's even crossover apparently. You're just not very convincing, here.

 

The king's wiper line is funny though. It was written that way for a specific effect - namely, humor. Just like other lines may be written to elicit a specific reaction.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

And obviously, I hope they don't on principle, because again - pointless.

Why would you want to deny people something they could like but you don't on principle? That's awfully jerky of you. "I don't want it, so those who do will just have to suffer." What's pointless to you is not pointless to others, so why is your position more valid than theirs? 

[FKA_Servo]

Why would you want to deny people something they could like but you don't on principle? That's awfully jerky of you. "I don't want it, so those who do will just have to suffer." 

 

What I don't want on principle is for Bioware to be constrained in the stories they want to tell or the characters they want to write. I believe you were hanging around the first thread about this, Hanako, so maybe you remember that much of the discussion for a time was centered around whether or not such a thing would be artistically viable and cost effective, taking into consideration bleeps (which are aesthetically dumb and would result in poor presentation) to rewriting, rescripting and reanimating cutscenes (which would likely be prohibitively expensive). A Bioware developer even chimed in suggesting it would not, and it seems like if faced with such a choice, the sensible and efficient approach would be to universally tone down the content. Which is what I oppose.

 

I think the quality of the game would suffer if this was implemented. I think the sensible and "mature" approach, if the content is objectionable, would be to ignore those instances of objectionable content, which I believe was your position on it (and to be clear, I support being able to self-censor as far as not recruiting a given character... not participating in a romance, or offering varied romance paths... etc. Clearly delineating where you might encounter such content for the most part). But scrubbing every single instance of explicit or potentially offensive content (and let's face it, has Bioware given any indication that they intend to go the route of much more explicit titles like the Witcher or Game of Thrones? I doubt it)? Or insisting on silly measures like toggles as opposed to just getting up and grabbing a drink? No, I think that's an unreasonable position.

 

I believe it's far more accurate to ascribe that position to the few who seem to want to sterilize the content across the board.

 

What's pointless to you is not pointless to others, so why is your position more valid than theirs? 

 

I never claimed it was. I am just stating my own preferences and pointing out what I perceive to be problems with others when it tickles me to do so, same as everyone else in this crazy place.

 

Toggles are silly, though. You've been here long enough to know that.

[Dabrikishaw]

I don't care.

[Il Divo]

Why would you want to deny people something they could like but you don't on principle? That's awfully jerky of you. "I don't want it, so those who do will just have to suffer." What's pointless to you is not pointless to others, so why is your position more valid than theirs? 

 

Validity isn't really the issue. Everyone has a right to advocate for the feature they want. 

 

But games require resources to develop and that indicates opportunity costs. The more features you are uninterested in that get added, the less likely you are to enjoy the final product. This is additive for each feature to be considered. 

 

This is far from the only issue on these forums that would be considered optional which I wouldn't want Bioware to touch with a ten foot pole. 

[Elhanan]

Ok? That's supposed to be conclusive? Elves use elven curses, dwarves use dwarven curses, and apparently humans (like Blackwall) use human curses? And sometimes there's even crossover apparently. You're just not very convincing, here.
 
The king's wiper line is funny though. It was written that way for a specific effect - namely, humor. Just like other lines may be written to elicit a specific reaction.

Except the humans do not use the bomb until DAI. How very forgetful of them....

[KaiserShep]

IIRC, it's some bleeping (or covering it up with static or other sound effects), and rarely rewritten.

 

It's also really stupid and pointless, but there you go.

 

They should use riff censoring like Metalocalypse. 

 

[Wulfram]

I'd prefer it if I could generally avoid dialogue in which our protagonist swears. Otherwise I don't mind.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

What I don't want on principle is for Bioware to be constrained in the stories they want to tell or the characters they want to write. I believe you were hanging around the first thread about this, Hanako, so maybe you remember that much of the discussion for a time was centered around whether or not such a thing would be artistically viable and cost effective, taking into consideration bleeps (which are aesthetically dumb and would result in poor presentation) to rewriting, rescripting and reanimating cutscenes (which would likely be prohibitively expensive). A Bioware developer even chimed in suggesting it would not, and it seems like if faced with such a choice, the sensible and efficient approach would be to universally tone down the content. Which is what I oppose.

Yeah, I remember that thread. That thread had quite a few good discussions. 

 

I think the quality of the game would suffer if this was implemented. I think the sensible and "mature" approach, if the content is objectionable, would be to ignore those instances of objectionable content, which I believe was your position on it (and to be clear, I support being able to self-censor as far as not recruiting a given character... not participating in a romance, or offering varied romance paths... etc. Clearly delineating where you might encounter such content for the most part). But scrubbing every single instance of explicit or potentially offensive content (and let's face it, has Bioware given any indication that they intend to go the route of much more explicit titles like the Witcher or Game of Thrones? I doubt it)? Or insisting on silly measures like toggles as opposed to just getting up and grabbing a drink? No, I think that's an unreasonable position.

 

I believe it's far more accurate to ascribe that position to the few who seem to want to sterilize the content across the board.

I disagree the quality would suffer, but at this point it is personal preference so we'll have to agree to disagree on that front. But yeah, I have never wanted a game to be completely sterilized of content others may find enjoyable, other than perhaps very disturbing things like the "I want to rape/torture/etc" suggestions. As I said in this thread, if they allow the player to play the protagonist as one who doesn't swear and has a few companions who don't as well, I'm fine with it since then I can enjoy the game and those who want swearing and profanity can enjoy the game. 

 

Toggles are silly, though. You've been here long enough to know that.

I disagree. Some toggles may be silly certainly, but not toggles in general. Some toggles can improve a game, like for example the gore toggle. 

[FKA_Servo]

Except the humans do not use the bomb until DAI. How very forgetful of them....

Shrug.

That's not a compelling argument against its prior existence. Apparently in the first two games, we just didn't meet anyone prone to such colorful exclamations. Which is not implausible. I personally went all day without hearing it once.

Besides, I can think of several less offensive synonyms for the "bomb" that coexist peacefully along with it. Do you have any evidence that the dwarf in your go to example wasn't just self-censoring with a weaker epithet than the one he might have chosen?

[Sartoz]

Ok, but does having a little bit (and let's face it, it's just a little bit) of "objectionable" language then invalidate its worth? And would you really consider anything that Bioware has released to be gratuitous? If we're worried about F bombs, well, you can count those dropped in DAI on one hand.

 

I find it impossible to care about impressionable teenagers. If they're old enough to play the game, then they're old enough to know what's appropriate and when.

                                                                                                  <<<<<<<<<<(0)>>>>>>>>>>

 

Nevertheless, I stand by "lead by example".

[Lady Artifice]

And yet they already have. Wish they would have stuck with it.

 

They really didn't, though. The existence of one term does not preclude the existence of other synonymous terms. Language doesn't work that way.

[Elhanan]

They really didn't, though. The existence of one term does not preclude the existence of other synonymous terms. Language doesn't work that way.

It may when it covers more than a decade.

[FKA_Servo]

It may when it covers more than a decade.

Apparently not, in this case.