1204 réponses à ce sujet

[Il Divo]

It would be better if a lot of underage kids would play one of the many games that are created for them, I think.

 

An option like that though? If I were a writer on a game like this, and they wanted to throw a clown filter over the (mild, let's be realistic, it's Bioware) profanity that found its way into the dialogue, I'd be livid.

 

As always, we need to get past this idea that it's the game developer's responsibility to play the role of parent. If the content is mature enough to get an M rating, then it's not designed for children. And if parents, knowingly or unknowingly, let it happen the onus is on them to take responsibility. 

[Iakus]

As always, we need to get past this idea that it's the game developer's responsibility to play the role of parent. If the content is mature enough to get an M rating, then it's not designed for children. And if parents, knowingly or unknowingly, let it happen the onus is on them to take responsibility. 

Certainly an "M" rating allows for swearing and other harsh language.  And in some cases it is entirely appropriate.

 

But it's also something that can be overdone.  Far too often I see programs and games which use language (among other things) as a bludgeon, for no other purpose than because they can.  

 

So while the onus of the parents is to be mindful of the content of the games they buy their kids, it's the onus of the game designers to be responsible with the content they produce.  

 

Use a pinch of salt when it would intensify the flavor do the meal, rather than dumping the whole shaker into the pot.

[FKA_Servo]

Certainly an "M" rating allows for swearing and other harsh language.  And in some cases it is entirely appropriate.

 

But it's also something that can be overdone.  Far too often I see programs and games which use language (among other things) as a bludgeon, for no other purpose than because they can.  

 

So while the onus of the parents is to be mindful of the content of the games they buy their kids, it's the onus of the game designers to be responsible with the content they produce.  

 

Use a pinch of salt when it would intensify the flavor do the meal, rather than dumping the whole shaker into the pot.

 

I'm not sure anyone seriously discussing this in the topic wants them to dump the whole shaker in the pot. Just that they retain the freedom to season it as their recipe warrants.

 

I take issue with the idea that Bioware should resort to serving up dry toast exclusively to everyone because one or two (but really, just one) forumites regard all preferences that aren't precisely in line with their own as invalid.

[agonis]

Certainly an "M" rating allows for swearing and other harsh language.  And in some cases it is entirely appropriate.

 

But it's also something that can be overdone.  Far too often I see programs and games which use language (among other things) as a bludgeon, for no other purpose than because they can.  

 

So while the onus of the parents is to be mindful of the content of the games they buy their kids, it's the onus of the game designers to be responsible with the content they produce.  

 

Use a pinch of salt when it would intensify the flavor do the meal, rather than dumping the whole shaker into the pot.

Swearing is pepper.

 

Definitly pepper.

 

Because with salt the meal won´t be edible at some point, while some people can stomach a lot of pepper.

 

But I get your point.

[FKA_Servo]

^If they're gonna ban and warn people all willy nilly, they should really fix their damn filter. It has funny priorities.

 

But yeah, you might want to look into that last sentence.

[Hammerstorm]

In games, I prefer expressions of the setting like 'Maker's Breath', 'Bosh'tet', and 'By the Stone'; seems more immersive, and far less offensive to me personally as the Player.

 

I can see that aliens using human swearing can be weird (even if we HAVE a translator in our head so we can understand them), but that don't affect the humans. Maybe if they invented new words but even then it should be the same thing as if they said the F-bomb. And why should the humans in ME suddenly make new word when they have a lot of them that have the same purpose?

[Iakus]

Swearing is pepper.

 

Definitly pepper.

 

Because with salt the meal won´t be edible at some point, while some people can stomach a lot of pepper.

 

But I get your point.

I was going for a "salty language" parallel 

[Il Divo]

Certainly an "M" rating allows for swearing and other harsh language.  And in some cases it is entirely appropriate.

 

But it's also something that can be overdone.  Far too often I see programs and games which use language (among other things) as a bludgeon, for no other purpose than because they can.  

 

So while the onus of the parents is to be mindful of the content of the games they buy their kids, it's the onus of the game designers to be responsible with the content they produce.  

 

Use a pinch of salt when it would intensify the flavor do the meal, rather than dumping the whole shaker into the pot.

 

 

But that would also be a completely different argument. Saying "swearing can be overplayed" is very different from suggesting that developers have to hold back because some kid might get their hands on the game. That should never be the game developer's responsibility, regardless of previous posts trying to use it as a smokescreen to justify removing foul language. 

 

That aside, tolerances for flavor vary across the spectrum. Bioware games are relatively mild with their language. In keeping with your analogy, Pulp Fiction might be the equivalent of drowning your food with salt. But that also has its own huge appeal to certain fan groups, just judging by the film's overall popularity. 

[Iakus]

But that would also be a completely different argument. Saying "swearing can be overplayed" is very different from suggesting that developers have to hold back because some kid might get their hands on the game. That should never be the game developer's responsibility, regardless of previous posts trying to use it as a smokescreen to justify removing foul language. 

 

That aside, tolerances for flavor vary across the spectrum. Bioware games are relatively mild with their language. In keeping with your analogy, Pulp Fiction might be the equivalent of drowning your food with salt. But that also has its own huge appeal to certain fan groups, just judging by the film's overall popularity. 

 

I do agree that Bioware is (usually) pretty good about their use of language.  But I also see people constantly pushing Bioware to push the envelope further and further.  I just want them to not go overboard in the future.

 

Edit:  And Resevoir Dogs was the only really good Tarantino film, imo.  

[KaiserShep]

Right, when the average age of a gamer is now 32 or something.
 
Right, we need to protect those kids.

Won't someone please think of the millennials?!

[Il Divo]

I do agree that Bioware is (usually) pretty good about their use of language.  But I also see people constantly pushing Bioware to push the envelope further and further.  I just want them to not go overboard in the future.

 

For what it's worth, Bioware isn't really my "go to" for M-rated language either. I'm not opposed, but I can't say I'm dying for them to up the ante. They could take it back to KotOR levels and I'd likely remain comfortable. 

[Elhanan]

I do agree that Bioware is (usually) pretty good about their use of language.  But I also see people constantly pushing Bioware to push the envelope further and further.  I just want them to not go overboard in the future.
 
Edit:  And Resevoir Dogs was the only really good Tarantino film, imo.  

Agreed. Using the DA series, this envelope gets pushed further to capacity with each title. When Bioware is encouraged to be more like some other games (eg; TW3), this becomes something I no longer wish to own and play.

As for QT, I enjoyed Crimson Tide; believe he helped write it.

[FKA_Servo]

I do agree that Bioware is (usually) pretty good about their use of language.  But I also see people constantly pushing Bioware to push the envelope further and further.  I just want them to not go overboard in the future.

 

Edit:  And Resevoir Dogs was the only really good Tarantino film, imo.  

 

I favor Death Proof, because I'm weird.

[Il Divo]

^At least you didn't say Jackie Brown. 

[FKA_Servo]

^At least you didn't say Jackie Brown. 

 

Hey, Jackie Brown has more heart than most of them. More Pam Grier, too.

[KaiserShep]

I favor Death Proof, because I'm weird.

 

I actually really love Death Proof, but I love Django as well. 

[AlanC9]

What's wrong with Pulp Fiction?

[FKA_Servo]

What's wrong with Pulp Fiction?

I'm a contrarian hipster.

[von uber]

I wouldn't say sod is a particularly strong swearword here at all.
It's quite common to say "oh sod it" when you decide to give up on something for example.
Like using bollocks isn't particularly strong nowadays either.

Incidentally Elhanan, did you find that offensive? You shouldn't if you are an American, but they are English swearwords.

Incidentally you lot calling them 'fanny packs' never ceases to amuse.

[Lady Artifice]

What can I say?  I'm not British.

 

It's a completely understandable misconception. The thing I enjoy about it is how well I think it helps demonstrate my overall point. What qualifies as bad language is extremely arbitrary and subject to cultural variation. Even someone who is generally very careful to use only appropriate language, like you, can inadvertently use something as scandalously synonymous with the f-word as "sod," very easily and innocently. Elhanan has been holding up DAO as an example of a Bioware game that didn't include an example of the "f-bomb," but it did, in fact, include an explicit version of it (sod) that he apparently didn't notice. 

 

As an aside, considering the way so many Thedasian areas serve as loose regional counterparts of places in our own world, it's interesting that "sod" is used in a game that specifically takes place in Ferelden (England-ish) while the f-word variation is used by someone from the Free Marches. 

 

One country to the next, or one century to the next, what words are considered swears can change drastically. So can the degree to which those swears are considered socially acceptable. That makes defining a hard line against all profanity really difficult and potentially foolish, because one individual's idea of profanity isn't going to be the same as someone else's. 

[Elhanan]

If DAO used the bomb, I certainly do not recall, and I would support a toggle to overlook it.

And based on the wide usage of the word, sod can mean many varied things. It certainly is far better than the bomb.

[Lady Artifice]

Right, it could mean so many different things. That NPC might have been suggesting there was some grass that needed watering. 

[FKA_Servo]

Incidentally you lot calling them 'fanny packs' never ceases to amuse.

Not an inaccurate name, still.

[Lady Artifice]

 

"Well, ****."

 

I have never encountered an image that made me want to learn what happens next quite like this does before. 

[straykat]

Won't someone please think of the millennials?!

 

To hell with all of them.

 

 

....You're one, aren't you?