The same thing can be said of swearing and profanity.
Possibly if it's out of place or excessive. Maybe. And even then, that's on the listener. I would argue that it's far more subjective than robotic, computerized bleep that would be completely at odds with every organic aspect of the music or dialogue into which its insinuating itself.
They should use riff censoring like Metalocalypse.
I can get behind this.
Possibly if it's out of place or excessive. Maybe. And even then, that's on the listener. I would argue that it's far more subjective than robotic, computerized bleep that would be completely at odds with every organic aspect of the music or dialogue into which its insinuating itself.
So kinda like Harrison Ford's narration of Blade Runner?
So kinda like Harrison Ford's narration of Blade Runner?
Example of a reasonable justification for a toggle.
Not really. Or at least how I sa your point. Your point seemed to be the norm was swearing like people are swearing so often it's hard to believe you can get through a single day without it. My point is it's actually not the common, that people in situations where swearing would be fairly justified still don't do it that often.
Does it exist, sure. Do some people swear more than others, sure. No one denied or even tried to argue that wasn't true.
I personally am fine with swearing and I expect it would happen at the getting shot at stage of stress. But I don't think it's such a common occurrence that I can argue it's lack would be overly strange.
The fact that swearing exists and people should expect to hear it occasionally in a truly realistic script IS my point. I've already said I don't personally care if there's swearing in this game. I've already said that different people swear in different amounts. What's so hard for you to understand? You don't hear cuss words very often? Congratulations, YOU specifically don't hear them very often. The more widespread and varied a group of people is, the more likely it is that someone amongst them is going to swear. That is perhaps one of the most basic forms of common sense I can think of and people are still struggling to grasp it.
I personally hear cuss words all the time. I've already made it clear that I'm aware of the fact that my normal is not always going to be the same as someone else's normal. If you think I'm saying that "realistic = constant swearing" then you've either ignored what I've been saying this whole time or you're not understanding it. You've got some people saying it happens all the time, you've got some people saying it happens only occasionally and you've got some people saying it happens very rarely. NOBODY is saying that it NEVER happens.
The conclusion is obvious, swearing happens. The amount heard or the amount spoken varies from person to person, but it DOES happen frequently enough that you can safely assume that every single person you meet has heard it and/or said it. More importantly to the topic at hand, it's safe to assume that a space-faring team of battle-hardened killers/explorers can be realistically expected to swear at some point. AT SOME POINT. Not constantly, for AS I HAVE ALREADY SAID BEFORE, constant swearing would be just as unrealistic as no swearing at all. Even I don't hear action movie levels of constant swearing in real life.
Now, is my point clear enough? I hope so, because I honestly don't see how it could become any easier to understand.
True, but I personally think spoken language is slightly less jarring than a loud beep which always startles me, haha.The same thing can be said of swearing and profanity.
BioWare staff already said several months ago that a censor toggle was not feasible. They also said that recording two versions of lines was too expensive. The point of arguing for these in the game is moot.
Basically if they put swearing in the game and you don't like it don't buy the game. Or you can pile up fences next to you when you take offense at each incident.
Well, the argument against him seems to be the exact same premise...
Shows how much attention you're paying. The difference is that I acknowledge that what I experience is not the same thing as what somebody else experiences. That acknowledgement is the exact reason why I believe you simply cannot have a truly realistic script without some swearing at some point. He believes that his own specific life is what sets the basis for "real". And even he doesn't deny that swearing DOES happen. The single most anti-swearing person in this topic knows that he cannot pretend that swearing never happens at all. What does that tell you about the expectation of occasional swearing in a truly realistic script?
To be quite frank, assuming that one's own, almost no swearing at all reality is "more real" than someone else's is the only argument someone could have for the idea that a script for a Mass Effect game could be truly realistic with no swearing at all. To say that it's realistic for nobody in a game about realistic character interaction to swear even once at any point is like saying that it's realistic to expect a first person shooter to have no guns.
A script with no swearing isn't inferior by any means. It's not inherently a lower quality than a script that does have swearing. But it is simply NOT realistic. Spend ten minutes in a relaxed, casual environment with ten people outside of your normal social group and there's an extremely high chance that you will hear at least one word that qualifies as "cussing".
Shows how much attention you're paying. The difference is that I acknowledge that what I experience is not the same thing as what somebody else experiences. That acknowledgement is the exact reason why I believe you simply cannot have a truly realistic script without some swearing at some point. He believes that his own specific life is what sets the basis for "real". And even he doesn't deny that swearing DOES happen. The single most anti-swearing person in this topic knows that he cannot pretend that swearing never happens at all. What does that tell you about the expectation of occasional swearing in a truly realistic script?
He lived his life. It's "real" enough for him. Just as your life is real for you.
And yes, he does admit swearing happens. I don't think anyone has denied that.
But that doesn't change his preferences. He doesn't like swearing. It's his right to not like it, and his right to provide that feedback.
To be quite frank, assuming that one's own, almost no swearing at all reality is "more real" than someone else's is the only argument someone could have for the idea that a script for a Mass Effect game could be truly realistic with no swearing at all. To say that it's realistic for nobody in a game about realistic character interaction to swear even once at any point is like saying that it's realistic to expect a first person shooter to have no guns.
You don't get more real than real life. And there are people who go through life with little or no swearing in their lives.
Me, I find it a fascinating thought exercise on alternatives to harsh language.
A script with no swearing isn't inferior by any means. It's not inherently a lower quality than a script that does have swearing. But it is simply NOT realistic. Spend ten minutes in a relaxed, casual environment with ten people outside of your normal social group and there's an extremely high chance that you will hear at least one word that qualifies as "cussing".
We're crossing into another galaxy in MEA. That's not realistic even by the soft scifi of the setting. I hardly think "no swearing isn't realistic" holds a lot of water as an argument 
He lived his life. It's "real" enough for him. Just as your life is real for you.
And yes, he does admit swearing happens. I don't think anyone has denied that.
But that doesn't change his preferences. He doesn't like swearing. It's his right to not like it, and his right to provide that feedback.
You don't get more real than real life. And there are people who go through life with little or no swearing in their lives.
Me, I find it a fascinating thought exercise on alternatives to harsh language.
We're crossing into another galaxy in MEA. That's not realistic even by the soft scifi of the setting. I hardly think "no swearing isn't realistic" holds a lot of water as an argument
"His preferences" have nothing whatsoever to do with whether or not swearing is realistic. I don't care if there's any swearing at all nor do I care whether people are OK with the thought that there might be swearing in this game. In case you haven't noticed, the one and only point I'm arguing on is whether or not swearing is realistic.
There ARE people who go through life with little or no swearing. There are ALSO people who go through life with a lot of swearing. Unless somebody's swearing history disqualifies them from a spot, then I think any mature human can agree that it's realistic to assume that somebody who cusses is going to be on our ship in this game. If you were trying to make a point here then you failed miserably.
"Crossing into another galaxy" changes how people talk amongst themselves......how exactly? So Mass Effect has a sci-fi setting? And? It's always taken pride in it's above average dialogue, writing and ability to make characters in a videogame seem like, wait for it.............REAL people. If you hardly think that "no swearing isn't realistic" holds any water with regards to this franchise then I'm afraid I'm starting to get the impression that you hardly think at all.
I think we just need to not lose sight of the fact that a ME2 script without swearing would have been unambiguously inferior. As just one example.
I think we just need to not lose sight of the fact that a ME2 script without swearing would have been unambiguously inferior. As just one example.
ME2 had a script?
I think we just need to not lose sight of the fact that a ME2 script without swearing would have been unambiguously inferior. As just one example.
"His preferences" have nothing whatsoever to do with whether or not swearing is realistic. I don't care if there's any swearing at all nor do I care whether people are OK with the thought that there might be swearing in this game. In case you haven't noticed, the one and only point I'm arguing on is whether or not swearing is realistic.
Some people swear a lot. Therefore swearing is realistic
Some people don't swear at all. Therefore not swearing is realistic
Both statements are true. Therefore, arguing that one is valid and the other is not is pointless
There ARE people who go through life with little or no swearing. There are ALSO people who go through life with a lot of swearing. Unless somebody's swearing history disqualifies them from a spot, then I think any mature human can agree that it's realistic to assume that somebody who cusses is going to be on our ship in this game. If you were trying to make a point here then you failed miserably.
I don't think the point here is expelling all swearing from the game so much as "How can it be avoided or at least minimized?"
"Crossing into another galaxy" changes how people talk amongst themselves......how exactly? So Mass Effect has a sci-fi setting? And? It's always taken pride in it's above average dialogue, writing and ability to make characters in a videogame seem like, wait for it.............REAL people. If you hardly think that "no swearing isn't realistic" holds any water with regards to this franchise then I'm afraid I'm starting to get the impression that you hardly think at all.
Actually as I said before, if different races are going to be living and working that closely together, it's entirely possible that they'll adopt words from each others' languages. Including swear words.
But the point was if you're going to complain about lack of swearing as being unrealistic, I could point at some other things about the setting that are even less so, even taking into account things like eezo 
I think we just need to not lose sight of the fact that a ME2 script without swearing would have been unambiguously inferior. As just one example.
ME2's script had bigger problems than an over or under-abundance of swearing
Discussing of "realistic" or not "realistic" in a game labeled Mass Effect is like pin pointing the center of the sun with a laser pen.
Nobody cries if a character swears because he's mad like a mad dog, but if he's swearing for the eleventh time in a row because the bartender put a slice of lemon in his coke, that's bad taste.
True, but I personally think spoken language is slightly less jarring than a loud beep which always startles me, haha.
ME2's script had bigger problems than an over or under-abundance of swearing
Only if the toggle is feasible with both budgetary and time constraints. If it can be implemented without impacting the rest of the game negatively then I am all for it.But you would not hear the distracting beeps with a Toggle, and I would not hear the jarring use of profanity. Win-Win.
Only if the toggle is feasible with both budgetary and time constraints. If it can be implemented without impacting the rest of the game negatively then I am all for it.
My pleasure.And that is more than fair. Thanks!
But you would not hear the distracting beeps with a Toggle, and I would not hear the jarring use of profanity. Win-Win.
I told you. There will be no toggle. There will be no alternative script without profanity if there is profanity in the script. It would cost too much money, and take away resources that are needed elsewhere. BioWare folks said so several months ago on this forum. You'll have to search for it because I'm not about to. So give up.
True, but I personally think spoken language is slightly less jarring than a loud beep which always startles me, haha.
And for other people it can be the other way around. Every person is different and have different levels of distraction and detraction.
Possibly if it's out of place or excessive. Maybe. And even then, that's on the listener. I would argue that it's far more subjective than robotic, computerized bleep that would be completely at odds with every organic aspect of the music or dialogue into which its insinuating itself.
No, I mean in any case. In any case it is on the listener, since again every person is an individual and thus have individual levels of distraction and detraction.
I think we just need to not lose sight of the fact that a ME2 script without swearing would have been unambiguously inferior. As just one example.
I disagree. It would have been better without it in my opinion.
Still would be the worst game of the Shepard Trilogy, but that's for a variety of reasons.
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