31 réponses à ce sujet

[feudaljune]

So is the type of lyrium the Templars use to enhance their abilities the same type the mages use for spells? The box Cullen looks at when referencing his lyrium withdrawal has a lot of items in it that make it seem as if it's some sort of injection, or at least reminiscent of it. Whereas the mages have mana potions which they drink... Not to mention dialogue and codex entries that mention mages needing a lot of lyrium for big spells. I understand lyrium comes in all different kinds of forms buts it's not clear to me if the lyrium "liquid" both Templars and mages use are one in the same?

And added note - for someone like Cullen who is in lyrium withdrawal, wouldn't that make them sensitive to the lyrium potions used by mages? Or the lyrium that would inevitably be leeched into the environment once casting spells? It seems like a person suffering from lyrium withdrawals would have a difficult time fighting along side mages using it frequently.

[ArcadiaGrey]

If you do Champions of the Just you have to go get some lyrium for the Templars so they can do a ritual.  IIRC they drink it from little bottles.  I seem to remember Samson in DA2 refer to needing some 'powder' so maybe it's a powder mixed with liquid so you can easily swallow it perhaps?

 

Both the Templars and Mages get their Lyrium from Orzammar so I assume they use the same variety.  When you save Connor in Origins the mages of the tower say that they need to get enough lyrium together to save him.  I got the impression that mages don't use it that often, that they keep lyrium for difficult spells that need extra power.  Whereas Templars use lyrium regularly as they believe it gives them the power they need to fight magic (although some think they could do it without it).

 

That's all I know on the matter, maybe someone more versed in the lore knows more....

 

Oh, and Cullen seems to stay back with the troops, he may not be on the field fighting with mages but instead leading them and overseeing the whole operation....so maybe he's not in contact with them much?

[DarkAmaranth1966]

I don't know that that has officially been clarified. I assume both are the same refined lyrium. Potions for mages are an already liquified form, probably with other herbs to keep it stable in the bottles. The stuff Cullen used to take is liquified right before drinking it. (we know they drink it because we see it if we do CoJ (side with Templars.)

 

Nothing has said that it isn't difficult for cullen to be close to mages using potions but, he knows he's got to find a way to deal with it. It's just headcannon but, to me that makes it even more surprising and challenging for him if he is romanced by a mage Inquisitor.

[ModernAcademic]

If it's a powder - the dust, as Samson calls it -, maybe they inhale it?

 

[feudaljune]

All interesting points! I haven't played through siding with the Templars, so anything shown in those quests I've yet to see. I do recall the bit from Origins about the mages needing mass quantities of lyrium to perform the ritual for Conner, but I always assumed it was the liquid "mana potion" form, just in large amounts.

I again bring up Cullen's lyrium kit that shows up in his personal quest. There seems to be some sort of heating spoon inside and a syringe of sorts which made me wonder if it was injected intravenously. Looks like a heroin kit to be honest.

If they do drink it, it makes me wonder if it's not one and the same as the mana potion the mages use. In that case, why wouldn't Templars carry and use mana potions as well? There's been lore implying Templar abilities are not too far from the magic mages use. Good point from DarkAmaranth1966 about mana potions possibly containing other herbs for preservative qualities!

Nothing has said that it isn't difficult for cullen to be close to mages using potions but, he knows he's got to find a way to deal with it. It's just headcannon but, to me that makes it even more surprising and challenging for him if he is romanced by a mage Inquisitor.

I have this headcanon as well! Mine was a mage with quite an explosive magic catalogue so I imagine her need for mana potions is great. Imagining Cullen dealing with these potions being used on a regular basis in the field as well in more intimate settings adds an interesting layer of self control on his part. That is assuming the liquid form isn't too far from what he himself used.

[feudaljune]

http://i65.tinypic.com/2cfqjao.png

Hmmm, well there's a picture of his kit. Not quite a syringe like I thought, but there is a heating spoon as well as the more worrying blade "tools" beside it. Looks like a lot of utensils for a powder? Unless it's heated to form some sort of liquid which would the be applied in whatever fashion involved those weird knives.

[ModernAcademic]

http://i65.tinypic.com/2cfqjao.png

Hmmm, well there's a picture of his kit. Not quite a syringe like I thought, but there is a heating spoon as well as the more worrying blade "tools" beside it. Looks like a lot of utensils for a powder? Unless it's heated to form some sort of liquid which would the be applied in whatever fashion involved those weird knives.

 

In a few scenes from Breaking Bad, Jesse prepares his heroin using a spoon. The powder is heated until liquefied and then is injected with a syringe.

 

Like you said, It may be the same process with lyrium. If that's the case, then lyrium is a highly addictive drug. 

No wonder it does so much damage to the poor templars. 

[feudaljune]

In a few scenes from Breaking Bad, Jesse prepares his heroin using a spoon. The powder is heated until liquefied and then is injected with a syringe.

Like you said, It may be the same process with lyrium. If that's the case, then lyrium is a highly addictive drug.
No wonder it does so much damage to the poor templars.

For real! Injecting anything straight into your veins, especially a substance that makes people crazy just through contact, is a bad idea no matter how diluted.

Imagine that with the implications of The Descent DLC. If the Templars do use lyrium intravenously and lyrium is the blood of the Titans, then? Templar abilities are from the Stone?

[Dai Grepher]

Those are the tools for making it. You need two parts lyrium dust, one part distillation agent, and a flask to put it in. More potent potions need concentrator agent.

 

I think the pouch with the cap is for holding and measuring the dust. The spoon is for measuring the distillation agent. The yellow thing is for mixing (which is why it has a crank), and it also pours out the bottom into a flask. Not sure what the sharp tool and the stick-looking tool are for. Maybe for cleaning the mixer.

[feudaljune]

Those are the tools for making it. You need two parts lyrium dust, one part distillation agent, and a flask to put it in. More potent potions need concentrator agent.

I think the pouch with the cap is for holding and measuring the dust. The spoon is for measuring the distillation agent. The yellow thing is for mixing (which is why it has a crank), and it also pours out the bottom into a flask. Not sure what the sharp tool and the stick-looking tool are for. Maybe for cleaning the mixer.

Is there a recipe for their lyrium mixture somewhere in lore? If so, that's definitely interesting and supports the drinking method. Again though, it then makes me wonder what the major difference is between the Templars' liquid version compared to the mana potion of the mages.

I thought of the objects in the kit almost like a transfusion set. The flask of the lyrium powder, the spoon for heating, saw the bulb more like that at the end of a blood pressure strap, though I now see the stopper at the end you mentioned... Blades for obvious reasons. Had nothing for the cranked object. Though the intravenous route is much darker, your explanation of the objects in the kit makes more sense.

[ModernAcademic]

For real! Injecting anything straight into your veins, especially a substance that makes people crazy just through contact, is a bad idea no matter how diluted.

Imagine that with the implications of The Descent DLC. If the Templars do use lyrium intravenously and lyrium is the blood of the Titans, then? Templar abilities are from the Stone?

 

Totally. They are draining their life force. 

 

 

PS: At one point, Solas states that lyrium is the source of all magic.

Could it be that the magic realm (the Fade) stems from the Titans?

 

What would be the connection?

 

 

PS²: Could the Fade be the mind of a Titan? Or his soul? Or an immaterial projection of what they perceive in the world through the eyes and ears of the dwarves? And mages can access it somehow, since Titans are telepathic?

 

So would the corruption in the Black City be the result of a titan that was different somehow? Maybe ill or overcome by some condition that manifested itself magically as the taint?

 

(I know those are weak hypothesis, but it's for the sake of debate.)

[Tigress M]

Is there a recipe for their lyrium mixture somewhere in lore? If so, that's definitely interesting and supports the drinking method. Again though, it then makes me wonder what the major difference is between the Templars' liquid version compared to the mana potion of the mages.

 

In origins you made lyrium potions.  Here's the recipe:  http://dragonage.wik...m_Potion_Recipe

[feudaljune]

PS: At one point, Solas states that lyrium is the source of all magic.
Could it be that the magic realm (the Fade) stems from the Titans?

What would be the connection?

So this is a bit off topic, but I just beat Descent so it's fresh on my mind. I had that thought too! If all lyrium is tied to magic and the Fade, but all lyrium is Titan blood... Does that imply a strong link between the earth and the realm of magic? The Titans shaped the earth, the earth shaped the surface, and the surface shaped the Fade, all at once and interwoven. There's mention in Trespasser that the Fade and this realm were once one and the same before the Veil was created and everything was easily formed. I figured the earth, the source of everything, would be tied in. Then again, I have a larger theory that all the religions are partial truths of a larger story so who knows.

[Ashagar]

Also apparently non-corrupted Lyrium can come in different colors according to Sir Barris who comments about it when asked about why the red lyrium didn't raise alarms at first, we can see that as well from the different color lyrium wells in that one expansion to orgins. Blue is just the most common color.

 

Of course the entire upper leadership of the templars getting killed at the conclave or murdered afterwords like the Knight-Vigilant likely also helped with keeping the dangers of the red lyrium secret.

[feudaljune]

In origins you made lyrium potions. Here's the recipe: http://dragonage.wik...m_Potion_Recipe

Isn't this the same thing as the mana potion though? Not necessarily the form the Templars use? If I remember right, those are for mages to use for mana restoration in game.

[ModernAcademic]

Also apparently non-corrupted Lyrium can come in different colors according to Sir Barris who comments about it when asked about why the red lyrium didn't raise alarms at first, we can see that as well from the different color lyrium wells in that one expansion to orgins. Blue is just the most common color.

 

Fade lyrium = green.

(Though I have no idea if Fade lyrium is actually real or just a spiritual projection...  )

[Ashagar]

Isn't this the same thing as the mana potion though? Not necessarily the form the Templars use? If I remember right, those are for mages to use for mana restoration in game.

 

Yes though in champions of the just the templars are seen drinking the lyrium you found for them before they work on breaking envy's barrier so its likely a similar process.
 

[feudaljune]

Also apparently non-corrupted Lyrium can come in different colors according to Sir Barris who comments about it when asked about why the red lyrium didn't raise alarms at first, we can see that as well from the different color lyrium wells in that one expansion to orgins. Blue is just the most common color.

Oooh, I do not remember this! Which expansion was it? I love the idea of different colors of lyrium with different properties. If the red is Blighted, what would that make other colors?

Further, how would it affect its enhancement of magic? Different colors offer different strengths of mana? Special, more powerful spells? *puts on Magister mustache*

[feudaljune]

Yes though in champions of the just the templars are seen drinking the lyrium you found for them before they work on breaking envy's barrier so its likely a similar process.

See, this is what I was curious about. If it truly is the same liquid form of lyrium, shouldn't Templars also then carry lyrium potions to renew mana? Though them actually using lyrium in that context might admit far too much about their own link to magic. It also makes it seem that, despite the Chantry's tight control on the lyrium trade, access to standard mana potions out of the Chantry's view would be simple. It's not much of a leash if you can just whip up your own flask with the rich ingredientsor buy it off some standard merchant in a hole in Dererim.

[Ashagar]

It was the Golems of Amgarrak as I recall for orgins, the different color lyrium wells would alter reality when activated as I recalled allowing certain areas and devices in the Thaig to be interacted with.

[feudaljune]

It was the Golems of Amgarrak as I recall for orgins, the different color lyrium wells would alter reality when activated as I recalled allowing certain areas and devices in the Thaig to be interacted with.

Sounds very Fade-y, like Broken Circle Fade-y. That was one of the few Origins DLCs I never played.

[Ashagar]

Its also the DLCs that introduced the Harvester and left open the possible there is now unknown number of Harvestors roaming the deep roads because of the warden actions which is likely bad given the harvester apparently managed to scare the darkspawn...

[ArcadiaGrey]

Sounds very Fade-y, like Broken Circle Fade-y. That was one of the few Origins DLCs I never played.

You're not missing anything, that expansion is as mad as a box of lyrium addled frogs.

You know there is another possibility. Maybe someone at bioware said 'er can someone make Cullen a drug kit', they googled it and just came up with something cool. It may not necessarily be an accurate representation of the lyrium process. David Gaider might look at it and go 'ppfffft that's not right'

So don’t take it as canon, just try and look at the games/books/comics as a whole and reach some kind of consensus. I'd guess there are a lot of voices and artistic visions jostling for position over the franchise as a whole.

[Dai Grepher]

Is there a recipe for their lyrium mixture somewhere in lore? If so, that's definitely interesting and supports the drinking method. Again though, it then makes me wonder what the major difference is between the Templars' liquid version compared to the mana potion of the mages.

I thought of the objects in the kit almost like a transfusion set. The flask of the lyrium powder, the spoon for heating, saw the bulb more like that at the end of a blood pressure strap, though I now see the stopper at the end you mentioned... Blades for obvious reasons. Had nothing for the cranked object. Though the intravenous route is much darker, your explanation of the objects in the kit makes more sense.

 

Origins had it, and it's the same recipe. Gaider said they were going to have the game allow warriors in the party drink lyrium if they were templars, but it proved too difficult and antithetical to gameplay to implement. But this means its all the same stuff.

 

Thanks. On thinking about it further, I think the stick might be a brush for sweeping any dust that remains in the mixer. It could also fit into a hole on the end of the crank to give it a handle that makes turning it easier.

 

As for your question on different colors of lyrium, I don't think GoA showed different colored lyrium. Those colors were just to signify different dimensions. But Origins itself showed that raw lyrium can be purple. There is a dwarf in Dust Town named Rogek, or something like that, who will make a deal with you to buy his raw lyrium and sell it to Godwin at the Circle. The icon of the raw lyrium in the inventory shows it as purple.

 

Also, Justice's lyrium ring looks blackish red.

 

World of Thedas has a depiction showing it as bright white with a lavender hue.

[The Baconer]

I wouldn't expect a detailed explanation of the kit. It's paraphernalia shown to us for the purpose of big implications.