71 réponses à ce sujet

[Mikoto8472]

Actually there are a couple things I don't understand about Corypheus. 

 

 

Starting with that, well, he's a sapient Darkspawn as well as a Magister. In fact he seems quite similar to the Architect or Mother who could control large numbers of Darkspawn through their shared taint. So I don't understand why Corypheus was so obsessed with raising a demon army when his very nature would allow him a Darkspawn army. Especially if he had Nightmare helping him make a false calling. Mimicking the call of an Archdemon?

 

Or at least if his control over fellow Darkspawn is limited he could at least supplement his army with Darkspawn. Is there a reason why he doesn't?

[vbibbi]

Baldur's Gate I & II, Icewind Dale, Neverwinter Nights and Jade Empire to name some titles runs counter to the idea Bioware is incapable of writing good narrative and plot. Wonder if any of it is interference from above like what made KOTR II such a troubled release for Obsidian.

I don't consider Icewind Dale to be an example of good writing. Its plot is barely there.

[ShadowLordXII]

Actually there are a couple things I don't understand about Corypheus. 

 

 

Starting with that, well, he's a sapient Darkspawn as well as a Magister. In fact he seems quite similar to the Architect or Mother who could control large numbers of Darkspawn through their shared taint. So I don't understand why Corypheus was so obsessed with raising a demon army when his very nature would allow him a Darkspawn army. Especially if he had Nightmare helping him make a false calling. Mimicking the call of an Archdemon?

 

Or at least if his control over fellow Darkspawn is limited he could at least supplement his army with Darkspawn. Is there a reason why he doesn't?

 

Plot.

 

There honestly isn't any reason that Corypheus couldn't or wouldn't exploit his ability to control darkspawn.

[Ashagar]

Actually there are a couple things I don't understand about Corypheus. 

 

 

Starting with that, well, he's a sapient Darkspawn as well as a Magister. In fact he seems quite similar to the Architect or Mother who could control large numbers of Darkspawn through their shared taint. So I don't understand why Corypheus was so obsessed with raising a demon army when his very nature would allow him a Darkspawn army. Especially if he had Nightmare helping him make a false calling. Mimicking the call of an Archdemon?

 

Or at least if his control over fellow Darkspawn is limited he could at least supplement his army with Darkspawn. Is there a reason why he doesn't?

 

It might have to do with the damage the darkspawn did to his beloved old Tevinter that he obsesses over restoring,

 

I mean the first blight did quite a number on the Tevinter Imperium amd Andreste's holy war likely wouldn't have done nearly as well as it did if the Imperium wasn't still recovering from that even with the natural disasters that struck it which of course led to what he considers a world filled with chaos.

[ThePhoenixKing]

Enough "humanizing" and "historical twists". You do it too often and it gets old, predictable and won't elicit it's intended impact because people are expecting it.

Coryfish is fine as an evil overlord with no redeemable qualities, it's a character style can can work if enough effort is put into it and it fits well with his role and characterization.

Cory is way too prideful to feel remorse for the Second Sin, the only thing that he regrets is that he didn't get to see his god and he just takes that episode to mean that he would have to become a god himself. The game shouldn't try to waste its time trying to rub Cory's sob story in our faces and browbeat us into feeling bad for Corypheus when he's trying to destroy the world.

I don't think it's 100% necessary to form an emotional bond or mental connection to a villain in order to hate them, disavow their actions, or even understand them. We didn't need to understand Ultimecia to know that the Time Compression was seriously going to screw with the world, or that Lucien Fairfax's idea of an "orderly world" meant the deaths of thousands at the cost of reactivating an old kingdom weapon, or even Bowser who continues to kidnap the princess for the lulz. Some villains are just a-holes and no amount of depth will make them redeemable or lovable. 

 

Agree with both of you here. There's a significant difference between making a morally ambiguous villain, and @%*#ing in the audience's ear and calling it rain, and lately, it seems like Bioware is confusing the two. They had the same problem with the Reapers, really: they kept trying to suggest that the omnicidal Mecha-Old Ones that were manipulating the technological evolution of endless species for their own ends, transforming people into various techno-organic horrors or simply melting us down into goo might have some sort of semi-valid justification for doing so. When it comes to things like destroying the world, rationalizations can only take you so far, and to be frank, I'd rather they just presented an unambiguous villain in honest terms instead of constantly pretending like the Dark Lord Murder Von Rapingstein had a perfect valid reason for blowing up that school full of disabled orphans.

 

The biggest problem with Cory is Bioware writing. The power fantasy doesn't work with a narrative where you are fighting an all powerful enemy where the protagonist questions their ability to defeat said enemy. You need to make the player feel unempowered against such an enemy. No one plays ME3 and starts priority: earth thinking "i don't know if I can win." You land thinking "Reapers Smeapers I got this." Yet every fraking conversation is telling you this is a hail mary and long shot we probably wont survive or win. So MAYBE just MAYBE the mechanics of your fraking game should match the feelings you are trying to convey?

 

Horror or survival genre games don't work as power fantasies. It requires that you unempowered to generate horror, if you feel kick ass you don't feel it will be a struggle to survive in a survival genre games.

 

Cory was presented as the one of the great evils out of the past who RUINED the world and caused the blights the single worse thing to ever happen. One who seems immune to death. yet you never once feel out of your depth even though Bioware tried to convey that. Why? because the story and mechanics and plot tell you he is a punching bag. Your overwhelming enemy shouldn't be defeated EVERY FRAKING time you encounter his forces. Seriously the writting in Bioware is shite for plot.

 

Agreed, Cory was a complete pushover, and having you constantly thwart him and his minions at every turn severely undercut the drama. In the future, Bioware may wish to consider having alternate adversaries for you to fight beyond the main antagonists. For example, while the struggle against the Blight was a constant fixture of Origins, it didn't mean you were fighting darkspawn in every single area; often times, you were dealing with alternate threats or issues (like the werewolves or Loghain's tyranny) that while not directly controlled by the darkspawn, did force you to deal with them before they could hinder your efforts against the Blight. Same thing in Mass Effect 2: you really only face the Collectors in the flesh four times, but in each instance, they're used effectively, remain a genuine threat and with the exception of a Suicide Mission where you save everyone, every encounter with them is somewhat pyrrhic in nature.

 

Agree with what others have said; Cory was a huge fountain of disappointment. A lot of the time, his plans came off as particularly foolish or short-sighted.

 

But it's not Cory being a stupid idiot that really bugs me. I'm fine with it. It's the fact that when I was done with him, I didn't feel the sweeping relief of accomplishment afterwards. Like "Look how far I've come." Sort of feeling. 

 

Which is a shame, considering that there was an afterparty meant to establish that it was how the Inquisitor was feeling.

 

Yeah, unfortunately, everything about the end of the game was an anti-climax. There was no great "Hell yeah!" moment as you finally vanquish your hated foe (see the Dead Money DLC for Fallout: New Vegas or the fight against Uldred in Origins for an example of how it should feel like). Like so much of the game, it just felt... empty. Hollow. A mere entry on a to-do list to be checked off, rather than the culmination of all your efforts.

[myahele]

I can imagine him not using darkspawn as a matter of "pride" due to him wanting to distance himself from his past as much as possible and them being "lowly beings"

 

But that falls apart when the Inquisition defeats most of his army. In a desperate attempt he could have resorted to controlling darkspawn, but he never does.

[KaiserShep]

It might have to do with the damage the darkspawn did to his beloved old Tevinter that he obsesses over restoring,

 

I mean the first blight did quite a number on the Tevinter Imperium amd Andreste's holy war likely wouldn't have done nearly as well as it did if the Imperium wasn't still recovering from that even with the natural disasters that struck it which of course led to what he considers a world filled with chaos.

 

I'd say that darkspawn are walking disease bombs of terrible ever-badness that spreads super explosive cooties is the more likely reason he doesn't use them. 

[Melbella]

I'd say that darkspawn are walking disease bombs of terrible ever-badness that spreads super explosive cooties is the more likely reason he doesn't use them.

That may be the best ever description of the Blight.

[AntiChri5]

Where is it ever established that he can control Darkspawn? However he is blighted allows him to reincarnate in the body of other blighted beings but that doesn't necessarily mean he gets the other Archdemon tricks like controlling the horde. He has enthralled Warden mages via the ritual to bind demons, but from the fact that his unlblighted liuetenant could do it I got the sense that it was good old fashioned Tevinter blood magic.

 

Where was it established that the Architect's control over his faction of Darkspawn was magical? It's been a very long time since I last played Awakening. I thought it was simply that he was sane and intelligent and they weren't used to having free will? I remember in The Calling other Darkspawn simply ignored him.

[TEWR]

 

 

Where is it ever established that he can control Darkspawn?

 

Legacy, where it says that he's able to control and influence those who bear the Taint.

[In Exile]

Actually there are a couple things I don't understand about Corypheus. 

 

 

Starting with that, well, he's a sapient Darkspawn as well as a Magister. In fact he seems quite similar to the Architect or Mother who could control large numbers of Darkspawn through their shared taint. So I don't understand why Corypheus was so obsessed with raising a demon army when his very nature would allow him a Darkspawn army. Especially if he had Nightmare helping him make a false calling. Mimicking the call of an Archdemon?

 

Or at least if his control over fellow Darkspawn is limited he could at least supplement his army with Darkspawn. Is there a reason why he doesn't?

Plot.

 

There honestly isn't any reason that Corypheus couldn't or wouldn't exploit his ability to control darkspawn.

 

The darkspawn would render the surface an uninhabitable wasteland. Corypheus does turn the world into a wasteland in the bad future, but that's inadvertent. He tries to go back in time to fix it. 

[Aulis Vaara]

Legacy, where it says that he's able to control and influence those who bear the Taint.

That's not exactly right though. He emits a calling while he's locked up, true, but when we free him, he doesn't even KNOW he's a darkspawn, nor does he call them for reinforcements. Unlike an archdemon, who takes mental control of the horde (a portion of the horde?) when he wakes up. Does he do that through the song? That seems unlikely, since we now know the song is a physical thing (the Warden who went after the Old God under the Western Approach could feel the song vibrating through the walls of the deep roads), but no such physical manifestation is present when we fight the archdemon atop Fort Drakon.

[Setitimer]

I liked how I didn't hear this 10 minutes into the game: "Corypheus destroyed Orlais and now you are the only one who stands against him, and we (conveniently) dug up an ancient relic of an elven origin that will (conveniently) destroy Corypheus if you find the catalyst which we have no idea what it is but we (conveniently) have absolute faith that it will work." I also loved how the game doesn't introduce the true evil behind Corypheus 10 minutes before the ending.

 

Yeah.  It waits for Trespasser to do that.

[BSpud]

Characters in a political position of authority whose goals and personality I agree with on at least a partial level and would follow with undying loyalty (for example Loghain Mac Tir, my DN Warden, Tywin Lannister, Stannis the Mannis Baratheon, etc.)

 

But like I said, it's because of how I headcanon the man (his goals, his past, his actions, his regrets, his interactions with other people, etc), not due to the canon's drivel.

 

[Riot Inducer]

The darkspawn would render the surface an uninhabitable wasteland. Corypheus does turn the world into a wasteland in the bad future, but that's inadvertent. He tries to go back in time to fix it. 

Yeah i think that's the big reason he doesn't use darkspawn. In his own words he wants to, "correct this blighted world". I'm inclined to believe purging the darkspawn to the best of his abilities was on his to-do list once he achieved godhood. Not that it mattered much in the bad future since the expanding breach and subsequent flood of demons rendered the world an uninhabitable wasteland anyways. 

[o Ventus]

 

But like I said, it's because of how I headcanon the man (his goals, his past, his actions, his regrets, his interactions with other people, etc), not due to the canon's drivel.

 

I too ignore canon when deciding which characters I like. That's why the Catalyst and Jar Jar Binks are my favorites, because I can just ignore whatever the writer or author or writer made for them and just substitute my own fantasies. In my head, Jar Jar Binks wasn't an annoying and incompetent a**hole who only ever gets in the way of things, instead he is an accomplished general, who has fought and won many battles and is accompanied by a harme of beautiful women.

 

I feel the need to clarify that this is a joke, because I imagine a few people are going to take this at face value and believe it all the way.

[Dean_the_Young]

I don't mind Corypheus per see. I agree he wasn't intimidating enough, considering how we beat him time and time again, but that's not the villain. That's the Bioware writing choice. Some sort of victory for him would have made the final battle a bit more climatic.

 

What I dislike is that the writers couldn't decide on what sort of threat they wanted Corypheus to be. A shadowy insurgency? A major army? Does the Inquisition need a major army to stop a conqueror, or is it cracking down on a conspiracy?

[thats1evildude]

Fittingly for a darkspawn, I think the threat Corypheus poses is as a corrupter, bending all the institutions meant to protect Thedas to work for him. He manages to corrupt the Circle of Magi, the Templars, the Wardens and the royal court of Orlais.

Even his use of the orb is an extension of that role, as he is using elven magics to fuel his quest to rule the world.

[Evan_the_mechanic]

My girlfriend said she killed him in dragon age 2, and he was reallly hard to kill, she said in this game he was really easy to kill, in 3, making it a reason ( of many) she hated this game, I have yet to proceed to far in this game so no opinion as of yet, although if she killed him in 2, why didn't they have a different villian? I only 'met' him once, before skyhold, ugly sob, just curious as to why they brought him back? She was annoyed leliana was alive (she said she killed her) since if you killed rex (no idea who that is, some mass effect guy?) that they put another character to replace him, why didn't they do that in this since leliana is just a war table character? I don't know the dragonage history, when I finish this, maybe I'll try 1 and 2, but I'll probably do this one again, lol

[thats1evildude]

My girlfriend said she killed him in dragon age 2, and he was reallly hard to kill, she said in this game he was really easy to kill, in 3, making it a reason ( of many) she hated this game, I have yet to proceed to far in this game so no opinion as of yet, although if she killed him in 2, why didn't they have a different villian? I only 'met' him once, before skyhold, ugly sob, just curious as to why they brought him back? She was annoyed leliana was alive (she said she killed her) since if you killed rex (no idea who that is, some mass effect guy?) that they put another character to replace him, why didn't they do that in this since leliana is just a war table character? I don't know the dragonage history, when I finish this, maybe I'll try 1 and 2, but I'll probably do this one again, lol

Your girlfriend should have played Trespasser, where it's revealed how Leliana is still alive.

They also explain how Corypheus came back from the dead. Just keep playing.

[BSpud]

But don't play too much, Evan, because then you'll neglect working on your cars, and how else will you make enough money to get your girlfriend--who is clearly a real and separate human being who exists--a birthday present on her next birthday that won't make her cry and post a crazy ass thread about her birthday being ruined because she didn't like DAI, which you, Evan--being a totally different person than your very real girlfriend--seem to enjoy, on the other hand, even though you're not used to using the web super wide highway internet information computer machine (or even playing video games in general for that matter) because you mostly work on cars.

[TEWR]

I too ignore canon when deciding which characters I like. That's why the Catalyst and Jar Jar Binks are my favorites, because I can just ignore whatever the writer or author or writer made for them and just substitute my own fantasies. In my head, Jar Jar Binks wasn't an annoying and incompetent a**hole who only ever gets in the way of things, instead he is an accomplished general, who has fought and won many battles and is accompanied by a harme of beautiful women.

 

I feel the need to clarify that this is a joke, because I imagine a few people are going to take this at face value and believe it all the way.

 

I mean, I see Jar Jar Binks as the true Sith Overlord of the entire franchise .

 

I'm allowed though to ignore what I want when it comes to Bioware's writing, which let's be honest if I took their writing and accepted it I'd be banging my head against the wall because they feel the way to make a compelling story is "lol let's make everyone insane." and they can't write a compelling story about a war AT ALL. Even DAO was more a lucky fluke then anything intentional (their original ideas were godawful and even then some of them were still left in the game and are part of why people see it as a clusterfuck).

 

When it comes to my 'Verse, which had already diverged heavily from established canon for DAO, I do what I want as a means to expand my creative influence and writing skills. And I honestly couldn't give a **** if people on the BSN had a problem with that. They want to accept canon, they can. I however see far more potential in Dragon Age then just accepting what BW is trying to spoonfeed me (I did the same thing with DAII and DAO).

 

I do however base my headcanons on Corypheus around his actual canon statements -- or those in regards to him. He's afraid right now and was when he breached the Golden City -- in regards to the Inquisitor saying they're not afraid of him, he goes "Words mortals often hurl at the darkness. Once they were mine. They are always lies. -- and both Cole and developers have stated that this new era scares the **** out of him.

 

That is just one thing out of the many that I see about him. And I expand on it.

 

I mean, I'm not going to imagine Corypheus as someone who likes Elves -- he was a slave owner in Tevinter like anyone else. At best he would be kind to them and still see them as inferior, like the Claws of Dumat codex talked about -- and I'm not gonna try and paint him as a saint but I do want to make him what he is: a human being.

 

Well, figuratively. Now he's just a lich. But part of what I do is have him adamantly try and distance himself from his human origins only for my Inquisitor Nasir Cadash to point out that 1) he can't escape them and 2) everything he's doing stems from his human origins.