17 réponses à ce sujet

[Quill74Pen]

Ladies and gentlemen:

 

I think it's fair to say that there were quite a few revelations and new information in the aforementioned "Trespasser" DLC. After playing through it, allow me to ask some questions and seek enlightenment from my fellow forumites:

 

1. We learn that the Elven gods and goddesses weren't always as such. They started out as war leaders, eventually becoming kings, queens and then, lastly, so-called gods. So, this begs the question: Who were the elves fighting? Is it a power that they themselves utterly destroyed? Or is that power still out there, somewhere else upon the world that Thedas is a part of?

 

2. Solas said that it was he who brought the Veil into being, thereby severing the physical world from the nonphysical world of the Fade. In doing so, he inadvertently destroyed the Elven nation(s), as they no longer had access to the source that powered their ambitions. But this, too, begs a question: Did Solas truly bring the Veil into existence, or did it already exist, but was "lifted" over the portion of the world that was ruled by the elves? I ask because Solas indicates that "lifting" the Veil once again will destroy the known world, rendering humanity extinct (and maybe Dwarves, too). But how is this possible? It's been indicated in past DA games that humans existed in the time when the elves were at the height of their power. Yes, humans were tribal back then, and therefore no real threat to the elves of that time. But, they existed, and they did have access to magic.

 

3. In the reference work "The World of Thedas, Volume 2," it's learned that there are lands — inhabited and not — outside of Thedas. To the east, across the Amaranthine Ocean, supposedly lies an idyllic land, but one's that's oddly empty. To the west, there is at least one nation, where dwarves live on the surface and are usually at the helms of ships arriving from that place.

 

Does this somehow tie into No. 1? Perhaps, the the ancient elven generals who fought that war so long ago, the one that would eventually see them raised to godhood, fight battles against peoples outside of continental Thedas? Is Thedas actually a world experiencing a Dark Age of sorts, after suffering some sort of calamity thousands upon thousands of years ago?

 

And how the heck do the Titans fit into this puzzle?

[thats1evildude]

I suspect the war was with the Titans. There's a reference in a Codex to Mythal striking down the Pillars of the Earth and "rendering their demesne (domain)" unto the elves.

After an eon, something happened that forced the elves to abandon the underground realm to the Titans and the dwarves.

Did they uncover the darkspawn? The Old Gods? Or did they realize the Titans were far stronger than they first appeared?

[Satihis]

1:  I understood the elves fought one another, not an external enemy. Although they did fight the Titans at some point?

 

2: I had no idea the humans already existed then. Since the world of the ancient elves had no distinction between the spiritual and concrete realms, the elves were sort of  spirits in flesh, hence their immortality?

[ModernAcademic]

What if the Titans were on the surface and Mythal condemned them to remain imprisoned underground, in deep slumber?

[Ambient_Riot]

As for number two, the act of tearing down the Veil isn't going to kill everyone by itself. After all, humans, dwarves, and even Qunari have physically entered the Fade without suffering any negative effects. People are most likely going to bite it either because of the massive influx of spirits and demons into the physical world, or because of some other aspect of Solas' plan we don't currently know about.

[Dai Grepher]

Ladies and gentlemen:

 

I think it's fair to say that there were quite a few revelations and new information in the aforementioned "Trespasser" DLC. After playing through it, allow me to ask some questions and seek enlightenment from my fellow forumites:

 

1. We learn that the Elven gods and goddesses weren't always as such. They started out as war leaders, eventually becoming kings, queens and then, lastly, so-called gods. So, this begs the question: Who were the elves fighting? Is it a power that they themselves utterly destroyed? Or is that power still out there, somewhere else upon the world that Thedas is a part of?

 

2. Solas said that it was he who brought the Veil into being, thereby severing the physical world from the nonphysical world of the Fade. In doing so, he inadvertently destroyed the Elven nation(s), as they no longer had access to the source that powered their ambitions. But this, too, begs a question: Did Solas truly bring the Veil into existence, or did it already exist, but was "lifted" over the portion of the world that was ruled by the elves? I ask because Solas indicates that "lifting" the Veil once again will destroy the known world, rendering humanity extinct (and maybe Dwarves, too). But how is this possible? It's been indicated in past DA games that humans existed in the time when the elves were at the height of their power. Yes, humans were tribal back then, and therefore no real threat to the elves of that time. But, they existed, and they did have access to magic.

 

3. In the reference work "The World of Thedas, Volume 2," it's learned that there are lands — inhabited and not — outside of Thedas. To the east, across the Amaranthine Ocean, supposedly lies an idyllic land, but one's that's oddly empty. To the west, there is at least one nation, where dwarves live on the surface and are usually at the helms of ships arriving from that place.

 

Does this somehow tie into No. 1? Perhaps, the the ancient elven generals who fought that war so long ago, the one that would eventually see them raised to godhood, fight battles against peoples outside of continental Thedas? Is Thedas actually a world experiencing a Dark Age of sorts, after suffering some sort of calamity thousands upon thousands of years ago?

 

And how the heck do the Titans fit into this puzzle?

 

1. Assuming Solas' claims are true, it is hard to say who was involved in the first conflicts. It's possible that the evanuris themselves were the first war leaders against each other. Elgar'nan and Falon'Din come to mind. Mythal is said to have interceded and suggested they choose champions to fight on their behalf, and this was done to prevent war. So this may have been the beginning.

 

Then there are stories of some of the later evanuris messing with each other, like how Orlesian nobles play the Grand Game. Sylaise convinced a servant of Dirthamen to take the form of a dragon, which is reserved for "divine" beings like Mythal. He appealed to Mythal for mercy, but she denied it and let Elgar'nan judge him. The texts suggest that Elgar'nan messed him up but good.

 

Solas claims that Falon'Din once invaded Mythal's lands and started taking her followers, which resulted in her allegedly bloodying him in his own temple (though I think Dirthamen took Falon'Din's place in secret, tricking Mythal. Just my theory.)
 

Then there are the Forgotten Ones, who had always denied the divinity of the evanuris. They warred with them constantly. Allegedly, Andruil even almost fell victim to their schemes, until Mythal intervened again and sapped Andriul's power and made her forget how to get to the Void.

 

But perhaps before any of this there may have been a war with the dwarves. Supposedly the dwarves were once "little stones", though even in this story made of flesh. They were mindless, filled with nothing. They toiled under the mantra of the titans that made them flesh. Mythal came and slayed the titan. Perhaps the story is saying this is where bodies of flesh and blood came from. Mythal could then make bodies of flesh for the spirits of the Fade to inhabit. If so, then this was first, as the Vir Dirthara states that the Forbidden One Xebenkeck gave up physical form to flee to the furthest reaches of the Fade in the People's hour of greatest need. She did this to escape the "Earth", which could mean the titans. So maybe the titans didn't come first.

 

There also seems to be a period where the evanuris hunted mortal men. I don't know if this is referring to humans, or just elves in physical form.

 

But whatever the case, the last round of battles seems to be between the evanuris. Or so Solas claims. He worked to free the People from the false gods. The Forgotten Ones may have seen Solas as one of them because of this.

 

2. I have theorized on this too, and I think it's clear that the Veil existed long before Solas did. He merely discovered the Veil, just as Sylaise is speculated to have discovered fire. They didn't create it or invent it. They just figured out how to bring it forth. I believe that the world Solas remembers is one where the Fade and the Real existed parallel to each other, but had to be separated by something in order to exist parallel. That separating force was the Veil. The reason why the ancient elves and spirits were able to move from the Fade to the Real and create physical structures from mana is because there were connection points that crossed the Veil. The Crossroads was sort of like a nexus for these connections. I believe these connections were sort of like the Breach, but much larger and orderly structured. From Solas's perspective, this connection was the normal state of the world, ignorant to the fact that there was a point where the Fade stopped and only the Real existed. This boundary could be called the Veil.

 

It is clear that the Fade and the Real existed independently from each other during this time. The Vir'Dirthara gives an account of an educated spirit giving a lecture to elves and spirits alike about the unchanging world and how to manipulate it. The spirit clearly states that the Earth has gravity that makes fire resist running like water, or forbids stones from rising like mist. It says the Real has its own harmony.

 

And I believe this is why Elvhenan fell. Solas merely pulled the Veil in from its preset boundaries. Like how we open the dam in Crestwood and force the dragon to wake up because it was being drowned. It was a similar case with the elvhen kingdoms. Like the dragon, they relied on the preset conditions of the Veil staying away from where they were. When the Veil flooded in like water, they had no choice but to move from where they were. Like the spirit said, the Real has its own harmony. So when the Veil cut things off, part of the elvhen kingdoms stayed in the Real, and thus were destroyed by the fact that Reality doesn't allow such structures to exist. Where tiny spires of glass could hold giant spheres of metal when magic allowed it, Reality forbade such things from existing as they were. Fire could no longer wrap around trees like walkways. Instead it engulfed the trees and reduced them to ashes. Water could no longer flow through the air like beams of light. Now they run along the rocks and always run downhill, while also evaporating into the air, forming clouds and then collecting together to fall down to the rocks again in an ordered system.

 

So no, Solas did not create the Veil. He merely figured out how to redraw its boundaries without knowing it existed already. He is under the mistaken impression that he created it using his magic. No different from the first man of his tribe banging the right kind of rocks together and seeing sparks set a pile of dry grass aflame. The laws of thermodynamics existed before the man, just as the laws of the Veil existed before Solas.

 

However, just as the Real has a harmony, so too does the Fade. Just as how spirits cannot manipulate the Real with thoughts, physical beings cannot survive in a dimension made entirely of thought. Or at least, not for long. It was suggested that those in Inquisition were only able to exist in the Fade because of the Inquisitor's mark. But who knows? Maybe they can exist, they just can't change anything unless they have magic.

 

3. Don't take anything written in World of Thedas as fact. WoT is full of timeline and storyline errors. But in this case it happens to be right. There are other lands out there on the same planet as Thedas. I wonder if the Hero will discover anything interesting about the Veil in the far west. But it seems the evanuris activity was mainly centered around Thedas.

 

As for the titans, I think they are just a combination of rock from the Real, Fade energy (which turned the rocks into Lyrium), and spirits (either from the Fade or the Real that got trapped in the lyrium). So once the lyrium fills with enough souls (return to the stone), then the lyrium grows and develops a collective consciousness. Just a theory.

[kimgoold]

1. Assuming Solas' claims are true, it is hard to say who was involved in the first conflicts. It's possible that the evanuris themselves were the first war leaders against each other. Elgar'nan and Falon'Din come to mind. Mythal is said to have interceded and suggested they choose champions to fight on their behalf, and this was done to prevent war. So this may have been the beginning.

 

Then there are stories of some of the later evanuris messing with each other, like how Orlesian nobles play the Grand Game. Sylaise convinced a servant of Dirthamen to take the form of a dragon, which is reserved for "divine" beings like Mythal. He appealed to Mythal for mercy, but she denied it and let Elgar'nan judge him. The texts suggest that Elgar'nan messed him up but good.

 

Solas claims that Falon'Din once invaded Mythal's lands and started taking her followers, which resulted in her allegedly bloodying him in his own temple (though I think Dirthamen took Falon'Din's place in secret, tricking Mythal. Just my theory.)
 

Then there are the Forgotten Ones, who had always denied the divinity of the evanuris. They warred with them constantly. Allegedly, Andruil even almost fell victim to their schemes, until Mythal intervened again and sapped Andriul's power and made her forget how to get to the Void.

 

But perhaps before any of this there may have been a war with the dwarves. Supposedly the dwarves were once "little stones", though even in this story made of flesh. They were mindless, filled with nothing. They toiled under the mantra of the titans that made them flesh. Mythal came and slayed the titan. Perhaps the story is saying this is where bodies of flesh and blood came from. Mythal could then make bodies of flesh for the spirits of the Fade to inhabit. If so, then this was first, as the Vir Dirthara states that the Forbidden One Xebenkeck gave up physical form to flee to the furthest reaches of the Fade in the People's hour of greatest need. She did this to escape the "Earth", which could mean the titans. So maybe the titans didn't come first.

 

There also seems to be a period where the evanuris hunted mortal men. I don't know if this is referring to humans, or just elves in physical form.

 

But whatever the case, the last round of battles seems to be between the evanuris. Or so Solas claims. He worked to free the People from the false gods. The Forgotten Ones may have seen Solas as one of them because of this.

 

2. I have theorized on this too, and I think it's clear that the Veil existed long before Solas did. He merely discovered the Veil, just as Sylaise is speculated to have discovered fire. They didn't create it or invent it. They just figured out how to bring it forth. I believe that the world Solas remembers is one where the Fade and the Real existed parallel to each other, but had to be separated by something in order to exist parallel. That separating force was the Veil. The reason why the ancient elves and spirits were able to move from the Fade to the Real and create physical structures from mana is because there were connection points that crossed the Veil. The Crossroads was sort of like a nexus for these connections. I believe these connections were sort of like the Breach, but much larger and orderly structured. From Solas's perspective, this connection was the normal state of the world, ignorant to the fact that there was a point where the Fade stopped and only the Real existed. This boundary could be called the Veil.

 

It is clear that the Fade and the Real existed independently from each other during this time. The Vir'Dirthara gives an account of an educated spirit giving a lecture to elves and spirits alike about the unchanging world and how to manipulate it. The spirit clearly states that the Earth has gravity that makes fire resist running like water, or forbids stones from rising like mist. It says the Real has its own harmony.

 

And I believe this is why Elvhenan fell. Solas merely pulled the Veil in from its preset boundaries. Like how we open the dam in Crestwood and force the dragon to wake up because it was being drowned. It was a similar case with the elvhen kingdoms. Like the dragon, they relied on the preset conditions of the Veil staying away from where they were. When the Veil flooded in like water, they had no choice but to move from where they were. Like the spirit said, the Real has its own harmony. So when the Veil cut things off, part of the elvhen kingdoms stayed in the Real, and thus were destroyed by the fact that Reality doesn't allow such structures to exist. Where tiny spires of glass could hold giant spheres of metal when magic allowed it, Reality forbade such things from existing as they were. Fire could no longer wrap around trees like walkways. Instead it engulfed the trees and reduced them to ashes. Water could no longer flow through the air like beams of light. Now they run along the rocks and always run downhill, while also evaporating into the air, forming clouds and then collecting together to fall down to the rocks again in an ordered system.

 

So no, Solas did not create the Veil. He merely figured out how to redraw its boundaries without knowing it existed already. He is under the mistaken impression that he created it using his magic. No different from the first man of his tribe banging the right kind of rocks together and seeing sparks set a pile of dry grass aflame. The laws of thermodynamics existed before the man, just as the laws of the Veil existed before Solas.

 

However, just as the Real has a harmony, so too does the Fade. Just as how spirits cannot manipulate the Real with thoughts, physical beings cannot survive in a dimension made entirely of thought. Or at least, not for long. It was suggested that those in Inquisition were only able to exist in the Fade because of the Inquisitor's mark. But who knows? Maybe they can exist, they just can't change anything unless they have magic.

 

3. Don't take anything written in World of Thedas as fact. WoT is full of timeline and storyline errors. But in this case it happens to be right. There are other lands out there on the same planet as Thedas. I wonder if the Hero will discover anything interesting about the Veil in the far west. But it seems the evanuris activity was mainly centered around Thedas.

 

As for the titans, I think they are just a combination of rock from the Real, Fade energy (which turned the rocks into Lyrium), and spirits (either from the Fade or the Real that got trapped in the lyrium). So once the lyrium fills with enough souls (return to the stone), then the lyrium grows and develops a collective consciousness. Just a theory.

Can I just say WOW,  that was beautifully theorised and explained. My only question is where do humans come into this, are they a later version of spirits made flesh?.

[Dai Grepher]

Thanks. Personally, I believe that the Maker exists and plays a part in the creation of spirits and flesh. It just hasn't been explained how it came to be. But I think what humans came from is the same as what the old god dragons came from, the elves, and maybe even the dwarves. I think the Maker created the Real by dividing it from the Fade. The Chantry account of this seems logical. If Fade energy was taken from the Fade and used to make the Real, then lyrium went with it and thus allowed for the creation of the titans eventually. It's possible the old god spirits then took physical form. The evanuris may have arisen from total spirits, or bodies with spirits.

 

As for where humans came from, I don't know it WoT is the only source of this, but it is speculated that human history first records human civilization as Neromenians who came from north of Tevinter and Antiva. Supposedly the elves already occupied the areas of Orlais and Ferelden at this time. Possibly Tevinter too.

 

Supposedly the Neromenians became Tevinter and pushed the elves out and eventually conquered them, but Abelas claims the elvhen destroyed themselves and the humans simply moved in to pick up the broken pieces. Basically, humans looted corpses and got some good items. These Neromenians became Tevinter, established an alliance with the dwarves of Orzammar, which stretched the entirety of the Deep Roads, and the dwarves taught the humans the common tongue so that all societies could trade.

 

Beliefs in a Maker began under Tevinter, though they just saw him as a primary creator. They didn't name him the Maker. Then the old gods came and turned people away from worship to the Creator, the Maker imprisoned the old gods underground, the Magisters Sidereal invaded the Golded City, were sent back as Darkspawn, they dug down to reach the old gods, more Darkspawn started showing up and attacking the dwarves which made their kingdom collapse, then Andraste came along and discovered the Maker and taught others about him. Tevinter killed her, and that's basically where we are now.

 

If the story about Sylaise encouraging Dirthamen's follower to take the form of a dragon is true, then this could point to the old god dragons as being seen as divine by the evanuris. This makes sense in the context of the old gods and dragons in general having powerful magical properties, even if tainted. It would also explain at least another reason why Flemeth was interested in acquiring Urthemial's soul. It's possible the old gods taught spirits how to take physical form, and maybe Elgar'nan and Mythal came from them.

[9TailsFox]

As for number two, the act of tearing down the Veil isn't going to kill everyone by itself. After all, humans, dwarves, and even Qunari have physically entered the Fade without suffering any negative effects. People are most likely going to bite it either because of the massive influx of spirits and demons into the physical world, or because of some other aspect of Solas' plan we don't currently know about.

This removing veil don't end world and i don't think it kill anyone. Main problem will be demons. And need to adapt because everyone have magic.

[In Exile]

1. We learn that the Elven gods and goddesses weren't always as such. They started out as war leaders, eventually becoming kings, queens and then, lastly, so-called gods. So, this begs the question: Who were the elves fighting? Is it a power that they themselves utterly destroyed? Or is that power still out there, somewhere else upon the world that Thedas is a part of?

 

It's not clearly explained what the elves fought. People theorize it was the beings called "Titans" (but keep in mind, we've never really seen one despite being in one) but there's no definitive proof as to whether this came before the Evanuris rose to power or after they rose to power. 

 

There are theories - and I ascribe to them - that the "harvesting" the Titans is part of the process of creating the foci - the orb - that Solas (and likely, the Evanuris as a whole) used, and very likely were part of their godlike power. It explains how they're able to raise other elves to their rank, long after they were established as god kings/queens, and what set them apart from the rest.

 

That doesn't explain the timeline.

 

 

2. Solas said that it was he who brought the Veil into being, thereby severing the physical world from the nonphysical world of the Fade. In doing so, he inadvertently destroyed the Elven nation(s), as they no longer had access to the source that powered their ambitions. But this, too, begs a question: Did Solas truly bring the Veil into existence, or did it already exist, but was "lifted" over the portion of the world that was ruled by the elves? I ask because Solas indicates that "lifting" the Veil once again will destroy the known world, rendering humanity extinct (and maybe Dwarves, too). But how is this possible? It's been indicated in past DA games that humans existed in the time when the elves were at the height of their power. Yes, humans were tribal back then, and therefore no real threat to the elves of that time. But, they existed, and they did have access to magic.

 

Solas doesn't suggest that removing the Veil would exterminate non-elves. Just that it would cause death on a massive scale. The suggestion from the dialogue is that Solas created the Veil wholesale. He suggests as much himself, and so does the Librarian in Trespasser. 

 

The Veil over the entire word is likely Solas having things go horridly right on him. He likely only wanted to do something to the Evanuris, but managed to be so effective he affected all of Thedas. 

 

 

3. In the reference work "The World of Thedas, Volume 2," it's learned that there are lands — inhabited and not — outside of Thedas. To the east, across the Amaranthine Ocean, supposedly lies an idyllic land, but one's that's oddly empty. To the west, there is at least one nation, where dwarves live on the surface and are usually at the helms of ships arriving from that place.

 

Does this somehow tie into No. 1? Perhaps, the the ancient elven generals who fought that war so long ago, the one that would eventually see them raised to godhood, fight battles against peoples outside of continental Thedas? Is Thedas actually a world experiencing a Dark Age of sorts, after suffering some sort of calamity thousands upon thousands of years ago?

 

That's all probably too speculative at this point. Apart from the core continent, we probably can't guess at anything. 

[In Exile]

I have theorized on this too, and I think it's clear that the Veil existed long before Solas did. He merely discovered the Veil, just as Sylaise is speculated to have discovered fire. They didn't create it or invent it. They just figured out how to bring it forth. I believe that the world Solas remembers is one where the Fade and the Real existed parallel to each other, but had to be separated by something in order to exist parallel. That separating force was the Veil. The reason why the ancient elves and spirits were able to move from the Fade to the Real and create physical structures from mana is because there were connection points that crossed the Veil. The Crossroads was sort of like a nexus for these connections. I believe these connections were sort of like the Breach, but much larger and orderly structured. From Solas's perspective, this connection was the normal state of the world, ignorant to the fact that there was a point where the Fade stopped and only the Real existed. This boundary could be called the Veil.

 

It is clear that the Fade and the Real existed independently from each other during this time. The Vir'Dirthara gives an account of an educated spirit giving a lecture to elves and spirits alike about the unchanging world and how to manipulate it. The spirit clearly states that the Earth has gravity that makes fire resist running like water, or forbids stones from rising like mist. It says the Real has its own harmony.

 

And I believe this is why Elvhenan fell. Solas merely pulled the Veil in from its preset boundaries. Like how we open the dam in Crestwood and force the dragon to wake up because it was being drowned. It was a similar case with the elvhen kingdoms. Like the dragon, they relied on the preset conditions of the Veil staying away from where they were. When the Veil flooded in like water, they had no choice but to move from where they were. Like the spirit said, the Real has its own harmony. So when the Veil cut things off, part of the elvhen kingdoms stayed in the Real, and thus were destroyed by the fact that Reality doesn't allow such structures to exist. Where tiny spires of glass could hold giant spheres of metal when magic allowed it, Reality forbade such things from existing as they were. Fire could no longer wrap around trees like walkways. Instead it engulfed the trees and reduced them to ashes. Water could no longer flow through the air like beams of light. Now they run along the rocks and always run downhill, while also evaporating into the air, forming clouds and then collecting together to fall down to the rocks again in an ordered system.

 

So no, Solas did not create the Veil. He merely figured out how to redraw its boundaries without knowing it existed already. He is under the mistaken impression that he created it using his magic. No different from the first man of his tribe banging the right kind of rocks together and seeing sparks set a pile of dry grass aflame. The laws of thermodynamics existed before the man, just as the laws of the Veil existed before Solas.

 

The theory-crafting is extensive, but it doesn't line up with what Solas describes of the world he lived in. There was no physical separation of the Fade and the "real" world. They were never the same thing - the Veil didn't create two things were there was one - but it made them less fluid. A better way of describing what it looks like Solas did is take away the part of the world that was the "Fade" and lock it in a single place - the "physical" Fade we see now.

 

The physical Fade looks identical to every other elven pocket dimension we visit, and this is the one thing consistent visually between DA:O and DA:I. There's a reason that the Fade is defined by the same floating rocks the elves use: because that's what the Fade does to a "reality". When the Fade "leaks" into reality in Hushed Whispers, we see the same floating rocks that characterize the Fade. That's getting closer to what the elves world was like, and explains how they had all these "floating" spires all over the place. 

[Reznore57]

It seems the first important war was against a Sun entity.

Not sure if this is how the Evanuris got the "Gods" status but the very few hints point out something important happened for the elves during this time.

Now it's vague but what we have is the Dalish creation myth ,when Elgar'nan defeated the Sun .The story is interesting but I will not go into it because well it's Dalish myth , and it's the only part you can find in ancient elven lore.

In DAI (or one of the DLC , can't remember) you find a prayer to Elgar'nan praising him as the "Sun killer" it's a prayer from the time of Arlathan ...and the mosaic at the temple of Mythal shows Elgar'nan holding down the Sun .

 

The "Sun" whatever that is ,is for me one of the most interesting thing in the lore , because it's also the symbol of the Chantry/Maker.

I could write pages about that but it's more or less just crazy theory talk at this point so I won't.

[Aulis Vaara]

It seems the first important war was against a Sun entity.
Not sure if this is how the Evanuris got the "Gods" status but the very few hints point out something important happened for the elves during this time.
Now it's vague but what we have is the Dalish creation myth ,when Elgar'nan defeated the Sun .The story is interesting but I will not go into it because well it's Dalish myth , and it's the only part you can find in ancient elven lore.
In DAI (or one of the DLC , can't remember) you find a prayer to Elgar'nan praising him as the "Sun killer" it's a prayer from the time of Arlathan ...and the mosaic at the temple of Mythal shows Elgar'nan holding down the Sun .
 
The "Sun" whatever that is ,is for me one of the most interesting thing in the lore , because it's also the symbol of the Chantry/Maker.
I could write pages about that but it's more or less just crazy theory talk at this point so I won't.

I see two possibilities, either Elgar'nan is WAY more powerful and godlike than the other Evanuris and defeated a major force of nature, OR the more likely thing is that it is just propaganda created by him when he became a god. Afterall, he needed a thousand thousand slaves to build a monument in his honor, which would hardly be necessary if he could defeat the Sun. He considers himself to be "first among the gods", but at the very least Sylaise disagree (she rivals Elgar'nan's light).

There may be other possibilities though. Elgar'nan could be a titan, for instance, or it could be the elven name for the Stone. Those theories are a bit wilder, though and not based on any real evidence.

However, to clarify something: the big first war for the elves was almost certainly with the titans or the Stone (which may not be the titans) or their minions. I think it's in WoT2 that there's a line about the Land panicking when the elves made bodies from it, but they made it forget.

Other than that, there are indeed clear connections between the Sun, the Chantry, and the Order Of Fiery Promise.

[Gervaise]

Elgar'nan means Spirit of Vengeance in elven (Elgar = Spirit, Nan = revenge, vengeance), and he is thought of as the god of vengeance, so that pretty much fits.     The idea that the Sun might be symbolic  of the Maker is an interesting one.   In which case he may not have actually physically defeated the Maker but simply been the first to turn material beings and spirits from the worship of the Maker, thus casting the Maker down.   That would fit with the Andrastrian belief that the spirits all worshipped the Maker at first but then he grew bored with them and created the material world and material beings (specifically humans) because he thought they would be more interesting.    The spirits then became jealous of the material beings and corrupted them.   In the Chant they simply do this by tempting them from the Fade but it could simply be that a stage was missed out, where the spirits themselves took on material forms so they could rule over the new realm that the Maker had created.  Thus Elgar'nan gained vengeance on the Maker for giving his love/attention to the material beings.   I know the rest of the myth talks about Mythal getting Elgar'nan to raise him up again, so it doesn't fit entirely but generally it seems with the elven myths that they do have a fair bit of truth to them, mixed in with wrongly remembered bits because of the passage of time since the events occurred. Of course if, like some people, you equate Mythal with Andraste then it becomes really interesting.   I certainly think much of the Canticle of Shartan is actually about Mythal and Fen'Harel, not Andraste and Shartan.

 

I think the war that raised the evanuris eventually to godhood was the war with the Titans.   It certainly seemed to raise  Mythal's status with her followers.   This seems to have set the dwarves free from servitude to the Titans and allowed them to develop in their own way.   Alternatively, it could have been the first of many with the Forgotten Ones.  

 

I think the thing that the elves were fleeing from in the Deep could have been red lyrium which corrupted those who came into contact with it into the first darkspawn.  Mythal may have been the one to have originally discovered it and tried to prevent the others from accessing it, which is why they killed her.  The evanuris wanted it because it is more potent than ordinary lyrium.   This is why  the voice (of Solas) says they should collapse the tunnels because the greed of the evanuris could unleash something that would end them all.

 

The reason most of us assume that the modern races would die when Solas drops the Veil is that he said that had he done so when he originally planned to, the world would have been thrust into fiery chaos.      He wouldn't say why it was necessary to destroy the current world but my theory is that it has to do with red lyrium.     This has now been released into the surface world and it was confirmed by a tranquil studying it at the Suledin Keep that it can grow on anything organic, even the tiniest organisms, so it would be nearly impossible to eradicate it.    Thus everyone is ultimately doomed anyway.   He was also against the Grey Wardens killing the last of the old gods because it would seem that is all that is keeping the darkspawn underground, so he questioned what would happen next.  So he is going to wipe the world clean with cleansing fire, from which the world of the elves can be reborn.       If this is true, then the way to stop him would be to find a way to prevent the spread of red lyrium and cure the Blight.   Interestingly enough, wasn't that something the Hero of Ferelden was working on?

[In Exile]

Whenever we see Elvhen iconography, the "Sun" (or the place where we often show the sun) is actually filled with the icon of the Fade. So perhaps we're misreading what he would have defeated. 

[Dai Grepher]

The theory-crafting is extensive, but it doesn't line up with what Solas describes of the world he lived in. There was no physical separation of the Fade and the "real" world. They were never the same thing - the Veil didn't create two things were there was one - but it made them less fluid. A better way of describing what it looks like Solas did is take away the part of the world that was the "Fade" and lock it in a single place - the "physical" Fade we see now.

 

The physical Fade looks identical to every other elven pocket dimension we visit, and this is the one thing consistent visually between DA:O and DA:I. There's a reason that the Fade is defined by the same floating rocks the elves use: because that's what the Fade does to a "reality". When the Fade "leaks" into reality in Hushed Whispers, we see the same floating rocks that characterize the Fade. That's getting closer to what the elves world was like, and explains how they had all these "floating" spires all over the place. 

 

Well the Veil is said to not be a physical separation but a magical vibration that repels the Fade. I didn't write that the Veil created anything. I wrote that it had original boundaries that separated the Fade and the Real, and that Solas' meddling caused it to expand across any and all intersecting spaces, thus cutting them off from each other. I theorize that Solas lived in one of these intersecting spaces, and because of this was under the impression that this space was the natural state of the whole world, when in fact there were places where only the Real existed. This is also true of the Fade. The memory that states Xebenkeck abandoned physical form and fled to the far reaches of the Fade where the earth could not reach implies that the Fade we know today also existed and had its own parts where it was 100% Fade and 0% Real. I don't think Solas extracting all Fade space from the Real space is what happened, and that seems highly unrealistic to me. If he made the Veil then it would have to expand from his location and cover all of existence. That would take an insane amount of power, and yet we see some places where the Veil is thin or possibly non-existent. This condition seems to support the notion that the Veil had natural boundaries. Thin spots.

 

The Fade doesn't look like any part of the Crossroads. I mean, the rocks sure, but the Crossroads has better designed stuff. The Fade is random and chaotic. The Crossroads holds form based on the eluvian present and its connecting location.

 

I don't think there's any connection between the floating rocks and the islands in the Fade. The islands represent the mind or imagination of the individual(s) present. Meaning, the place we explore in HLtA is the Nightmare's island. That island has floating rocks. The Crossroads has floating rocks because the magic there causes them to float.

 

I think the floating rocks in IHW is just the result of magic pouring through the Breach and having an effect on the real world. Basically, I think there's a difference between rocks that are being held up by magic, and islands that exist from thought and have clear boundaries based on the limitations of the individual(s) on that island.

[Aulis Vaara]

Elgar'nan always bothers me as a god, because we know that justice and vengeance are two sides of the same coin. In the current rules of the fade, vengeance is just corrupted justice. Either this was always so, and Elgar'nan is just Mythal on her bad days, or this entwining came about for a specific reason. Given that Mythal would let Elgar'nan judge in some cases, it looks like it was the former. Another point in this favor is that FleMythal is also obsessed with revenge.

An alternate is that Elgar'nan is not really vengeance at all, but rage. His judgements were always furious and destructive. That fits with vengeance as well as rage.

Aside from that, we can easily link each god with a spirit-demon combination:

Solas is wisdom-pride. This one is rather obvious.
Mythal is justice-vengeance. Even more obvious than the above.
Elgar'nan is justice-vengeance or valor-rage. Again, this one irks me. None of these really seem to fit Elgar'nan to a t. He is "first among the gods" but that sentiment doesn't fit valor or rage or justice or vengeance. There is something off about Elgar'nan, but I'm not sure what it is. There's also the thing where, while most elves had no real concept of time and thought nothing of spells that took decades to cast, Elgar'nan's monument had to be (or at least was) built in a day and required the sacrifice of a thousand-thousand slaves.
Sylaise is duty?-envy. She is as good as every other other god at their own sphere, apparently. The staying at home bit seems to scream duty to me, and it kind of feels right that duty would be perverted into envy.
Falon'din is command?-hunger. See the tale of him amassing followers for the hunger. The shepherd's staff he is depicted with screams command. Command also seems like it could be perverted into hunger, through the desire to have more and more things obeying your command.
Dirthamen is faith?-sloth. He doesn't seem to do much. On top of that, one of the sloth demons we have met was a bear/bereskarn and the bear is beloved of Dirthamen. Sloths seem like they know a lot but don't say much. The faith spirit is just a wild guess.
Andruil is valor?-terror. I put valor with rage for Elgar'nan, because I could not imagine any other spirit being twisted into rage, however, valor might also be twisted into terror. A valorous warrior is terrifying to an adversary. Andruil was a good hunter and the way of three trees seems like they would apply well in battle. Terror demons are good hunters as well. It seems to fit.
June may be purpose-desire, since the mythology of the elves states that they were without purpose before June taught them crafting.
Ghilan'nain is compassion-fear, although this one is hard to pin down too, but I chose fear because of all the monsters she created. Since Cole does not want to become a fear demon, I assume that compassion is the spirit variant of fear.

-----

As for the fade and the veil, I don't think there was ever a "natural" veil, however, I would say that Solas' construct was never the only one. Afterall, Templars can prevent/repel magic through the use of Lyrium.

I think the titans themselves are massive templars that prevent magic and that they are a big part of the reason why the world is so unchangeable. How they do this may well be exactly as Dai Grepher describes, through vibration. They probably keep out the darkspawn in the same way, AND it could also be the explanation for the song of the Old Gods. On top of that, the Old Gods know the darkspawn are coming, that is why their song carries an urgency. It's as much a distress call as an attempt to keep the darkspawn out.

[Dai Grepher]

That's if the evanuris are Fade spirits. If so, I think Elgar'nan is rage. Didn't Solas once remark about how old spirits are? I think he may have said rage is one of the oldest emotions, save for maybe hunger or desire.

 

Elgar'nan being called "God of Vengeance" might just be what the elvhen named him. Remember, Solas was given the name Fen'Harel. So the elvhen probably named Elgar'nan that because they sought him out for vengeance. That doesn't necessarily mean he was a spirit of vengeance. Though Solas claims others can twist a spirit to take a different shape depending on what they think of that spirit.

 

Mythal might be compassion. She calmed Elgar'nan and got the "sun" off the hook. If her opposite is fear, then it might fit with her invocation at the alter. Call to me, without fear, without mercy.

 

Falon'Din could be fear or wisdom. They said he could walk the Fade, and he led elvhen there for utheneria. I think they also said he gave secrets to his twin brother Dirthamen to keep safe. Dirthamen then gave secrets to the animals all of which blabbed except for the bear. Or something like that. So Dirthamen might be associated with the spirit of command. If their is a spirit of loyalty, he might be that too. But one of his stories says he commanded two ravens to take him to Falon'Din, who was walking the Fade.

 

I think a lot of the stuff about the evanuris is unwritten as far as BioWare is concerned. So any of this could change. The only interesting theory about them that I have at the moment is that Solas' story about Mythal bloodying Falon'Din in his own temple is a little off. I believe that Mythal meant to do this, but Falon'Din saw it coming, and Dirthamen actually took Falon'Din's place and wore his robes and took his staff. He posed as his twin brother and Mythal bloodied Dirthamen unknowingly. This may have even been how Mythal was ultimately betrayed. She may have forced Falon'Din (actually Dirthamen) to swear loyalty to her (placed him under her compulsion), and then with her thinking Falon'Din was no threat to her, the real Falon'Din simply walked up behind her and stabbed her in the back.

 

The outline of Solas' last picture, the unfinished one, shows a dragon with a sword stabbed through its back. This might represent Mythal, though it may have been meant to represent the Inquisition defeating the Red Lyrium Dragon. Or maybe Solas meant to paint that, but it reminded him of Mythal's murder, so he started painting the Dread Wolf, and when he realized it he just stopped all together.

 

If you had an OGB Kieran then you go to the Fade to find him. You run through an island that might be a reflection of what Flemeth knows of Mythal. There is a Falon'Din statue pointing in a direction (which I think tells you were to go, but I'm not certain), and near the end there is a statue of Dirthamen with a sword in his back and the statue is bleeding red liquid.

 

http://vignette2.wik...=20150804015218

 

Maybe she is envisioning Mythal's betrayal being turned around on those who betrayed her.