38 réponses à ce sujet

[Dabrikishaw]

If Solas does lift the veil, that make it impossible to be a Tranquil anymore, right?

 

I'm not asking because I support the plan, I was only musing on the mechanics of the situation when this thought occurred to me.

[GoldenGail3]

Yeah.... Solas and his plans... STOP MAKING THEM, SOLAS! YOU SUCK AT THEM!

[Ambient_Riot]

Possibly? I don't know if it would undo Tranquility on it's own, but it'd make it much easier to reverse with all the spirits roaming around. On another note, the entire idea of Tranquility would simply disappear once the Chantry collapses and all the Templars are dead.

[ModernAcademic]

Possessed mages free to wander Thedas. What a nightmare.

[Medhia_Nox]

No, I think you would still be able to make someone Tranquil.

 

It might all depend on what happens to non-magical people... and/or.... dwarves.

 

Dwarves are naturally disconnected from the Fade... perhaps because they were originally naturally connected to the lyrium. 

 

I bet the ancient elves had Tranquility.

[diaspora2k5]

Sure, but that's a consequence of killing everyone.

[LOLandStuff]

Everyone's a Tranquil from his perspective. Nothing a good death won't solve, because "plans".

[Ghost Gal]

Probably. The official way to reverse Tranquility is to have someone touched by a spirit, yeah? The way Solas talks, it sounds like before the Veil went up spirits and mortals co-existed, and when the Veil comes down spirits will mingle with mortals again. (Of course, just tearing the Veil down and letting the Fade flood into the mortal world is like destroying a dam and letting lake water flood a vally, causing about as much devastation.)

 

If magic is everywhere and spirits can touch mortals right and left, Tranquility would probably be lifted.

[Ashagar]

Makes you wonder how the ancient humans and elves dealt with mages who were truly were a danger to themselves and others.

[MisterJB]

Well, yes considering how everyone will be dead.

[Dabrikishaw]

Probably. The official way to reverse Tranquility is to have someone touched by a spirit, yeah? The way Solas talks, it sounds like before the Veil went up spirits and mortals co-existed, and when the Veil comes down spirits will mingle with mortals again. (Of course, just tearing the Veil down and letting the Fade flood into the mortal world is like destroying a dam and letting lake water flood a vally, causing about as much devastation.)

 

If magic is everywhere and spirits can touch mortals right and left, Tranquility would probably be lifted.

That's a good hypothesis of the idea, thank you for sharing. Again guys, I don't support Solas' goals, I was just curious about something.

[Qis]

No, everyone become Tranquil, because don't dream anymore, everyone going to the Fade to dream, since there is no dream, there is no emotion

[Ghost Gal]

That's a good hypothesis of the idea, thank you for sharing. Again guys, I don't support Solas' goals, I was just curious about something.

 

Thanks, I try.

 

Now that you've mentioned it though, I wonder if there are different levels of Fade immersion, and that removing the Veil means everyone's Fade immersion bumps up a notch? 

 

Let explain: the way to make a Tranquil is to cut off their connection to the Fade, right? And thus cut off their dreams and emotions. Removing Tranquility is restoring their connection to the Fade, which apparently requires the touch of a spirit. (Karl from DA2 felt this when he was near Anders/Justice, and Cassandra from DAI reveals her Tranquility was broken by a spirit of faith.) But in the post-Veil worldstate, even removing Tranquility doesn't restore the level of Fade immersion that Fen'Harel feels is required to be "real."

 

For the sake of argument, let's say there's... oh, three levels of Fade immersion. There's obviously full-Fade immersion, as shown with ancient elves like Solas and Abelas. There's medium Fade immersion, which is most of modern Thedas. Then there's least Fade immersion, which is Tranquils. 

 

Since the default worldstate is still less than the ancient elves, and "restoring" Tranquils merely puts them at medium Fade immersion like most of modern Thedas, I wonder if removing the Veil would bump both parties up a notch? Just by having magic and the Fade ever-present in the air ("not a separate place, but a state of being, like the wind" as Solas described it), would it bump most of Thedas up to full-Fade immersion like ancient elves, while Tranquil would get bumped up to the same medium Fade immersion as post-Veil modern Thedas?

 

Like, with the Veil removed, modern Thedas suddenly has access to the magic, telepathic and empathic abilities of full-Fade folk, while Tranquils are simply restored their emotions and dreams, but they would need to then be touched by spirits to get the rest of the Fade magic, telepathic and empathic abilities?

 

Huh... you've given interesting food for thought.

[Ranadiel Marius]

Makes you wonder how the ancient humans and elves dealt with mages who were truly were a danger to themselves and others.

They elected them king/God.

[berelinde]

Probably. The official way to reverse Tranquility is to have someone touched by a spirit, yeah? The way Solas talks, it sounds like before the Veil went up spirits and mortals co-existed, and when the Veil comes down spirits will mingle with mortals again. (Of course, just tearing the Veil down and letting the Fade flood into the mortal world is like destroying a dam and letting lake water flood a vally, causing about as much devastation.)

 

If magic is everywhere and spirits can touch mortals right and left, Tranquility would probably be lifted.

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking would happen if the Veil was gone. Of course, that would mean that all of the Tranquil would collectively lose their shite because there wouldn't be anyone around to support them when they regained their emotions. The transition would be harsh, and intensely damaging on an emotional level.

 

Plus, you have to remember that the spirits themselves would be going through something similar. They'd be plopped into a world they flat out do not understand at all without so much as a Freshman Orientation Weekend to get used to it. Spirits tend not to do so well with sudden changes.

 

So... a whole lot of traumatized, emotionally vulnerable people wandering around in a world suddenly full of traumatized, confused spirits? There's no way that could end badly.

[In Exile]

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking would happen if the Veil was gone. Of course, that would mean that all of the Tranquil would collectively lose their shite because there wouldn't be anyone around to support them when they regained their emotions. The transition would be harsh, and intensely damaging on an emotional level.

Plus, you have to remember that the spirits themselves would be going through something similar. They'd be plopped into a world they flat out do not understand at all without so much as a Freshman Orientation Weekend to get used to it. Spirits tend not to do so well with sudden changes.

So... a whole lot of traumatized, emotionally vulnerable people wandering around in a world suddenly full of traumatized, confused spirits? There's no way that could end badly.

That may be part of what will follow for normal mages and mortals if Solas wins, apart from whatever harm he does to the world itself.

[Marika Haliwell]

my question is ... then what is the point of the future we all see after Alexius' sends the Inqky ahead in time? The veil was broken and the fade merged with the mortal world and it was sickly green and full of demons. Or this fade Solas talks about is different from the one we see in the future?

[Ashagar]

It should be noted Solas does not have a good track record when it comes to his plans, given his plans to deal with the god kings destroyed the world as he knew it and rendered his people mortal, his plan with Corypheus ended up with the breach, Corypheus surviving until the inquisitor killed him and his orb being destroyed.

 

I can only imagine how his plan for bringing the veil down and his plans for dealing with the Elven God Kings return will go wrong.

[berelinde]

It leaves us with a potentially interesting situation for DA4. They could start the game with "The Great Veil Reboot" already done and over, with every sentient creature scrambling to stay alive long enough to find the reset button. That might be fun, but it is very similar to DAI. The world's gone mad, demons dropping out of the sky like angry raindrops with teeth, and somebody has to ram the stopper back into the endless flask of crazy before there's nothing left to save. It's a big, ambitious project, and maybe they might be better off if they focused on something smaller this time.

 

Or, they could start the game before Solas has a chance to do what he wants to do and the protagonist has to convince him not to do it. That might be fun, too.

[9TailsFox]

my question is ... then what is the point of the future we all see after Alexius' sends the Inqky ahead in time? The veil was broken and the fade merged with the mortal world and it was sickly green and full of demons. Or this fade Solas talks about is different from the one we see in the future?

It's basically this. Fade can be manipulated at will and in Cory fade world he is god and he care only about himself and everyone worship him.  Solas fade world is nothing like Cory world. After Solas bring veil down he try to stop spirit/demon damage as much as possible.

 

It's same as country ruled by dictator. If dictator is bad life sucks, if dictator is good life is great. Depends on who controlling fade if I want everyone suffer everyone will suffer if i want everyone to be happy everyone will be happy.

[Ashagar]

Corypheus does has things he cares for, Tevinter, that people's qualities and abiltiies aren't dismissed and ignored simply because of their origins and that the people have a god that will answer their prayers instead of ignoring them like the maker(Whom he considers unworthy of worship because he doesn't answer prayers)

 

Its more that in the bad future the veil was ripped apart violently and slowly destroyed instead of being brought down quickly.

[vertigomez]

Makes you wonder how the ancient humans and elves dealt with mages who were truly were a danger to themselves and others.

Vivienne: So, apostate. If the Circle is such a failure, what would be your solution? Would you have your fellow mages live among the people unguarded, unwatched?
Solas: Yes.
Vivienne: And when they became posessed or use their power to harm?
Solas: I would kill them. Magic is more elegant than a blade or a bow, but a murderer remains a murderer.
Vivienne: So, you alone would pass judgement? Repay murder with murder? Or do we open this up to mobs and vigilantes? If you’re going to dispense justice on violent mages yourself, you'll need eternal life and omniscience.

[myahele]

When change like as sudden as this happens thing will go haywire and many people will suffer and die until everyone adjusts to it: see what happened to the elvhen.

 

Still, even with a world full of mages there'll always be disparity between those above and those below. It won't be a utopia.

 

The "justice" system will adjust to a world full of mages. 

[vertigomez]

When change like as sudden as this happens thing will go haywire and many people will suffer and die until everyone adjusts to it: see what happened to the elvhen.
 
Still, even with a world full of mages there'll always be disparity between those above and those below. It won't be a utopia.
 
The "justice" system will adjust to a world full of mages.

I don't see how, though.

Paraphrasing here, but Gaider said that when they were conceptualizing the mage conflict in DA, they asked themselves what it would be like if Charm Person were a real thing. How would people react to the threat of somebody being able to do THAT to your head? To a king or a religious leader? In a world where blood magic can definitely do that, and Solas has no quarrel with blood magic itself, then what safeguards are there when magic's everywhere and it ain't no thang?

I think it's fascinating even if I can't wrap my head around it. Sort of like the conundrum I face when thinking about spirit possession.

[myahele]

I don't see how, though.

Paraphrasing here, but Gaider said that when they were conceptualizing the mage conflict in DA, they asked themselves what it would be like if Charm Person were a real thing. How would people react to the threat of somebody being able to do THAT to your head? To a king or a religious leader? In a world where blood magic can definitely do that, and Solas has no quarrel with blood magic itself, then what safeguards are there when magic's everywhere and it ain't no thang?

I think it's fascinating even if I can't wrap my head around it. Sort of like the conundrum I face when thinking about spirit possession.

 

The world used to be full of mages back when the Elvhen ruled, so they had their own rules and safeguards. 

 

But still, it was and will never be a utopia as we've seen in from what little we know of Ancient Elves and Tevinter. Modern Thedosians have ways to deal with blood magic mind-control: Littany of Andrala. I'm sure preventative measures will be in place. 

 

Then there's the spiritual bonds/ culture the avvar had where a clan had their own Spirit guardians to ward off demons.

 

Hawke also managed to prevent blood magic mind control ... albeit he's the protagonist