153 réponses à ce sujet

[Aren]

Riordan mentions there's only enough Archdemon blood for one joining, but doesn't mention where it comes from.

It's also not explained why someone else couldn't have been chosen to be that Warden, other than it was a plot device.

Incorrect.
Archdemon blood isn't necessary to create GW but it is just a rare ingredient used to improve the potency of the Joining.
Gaider was clear on that years ago.
http://forum.bioware...lden/?bioware=1
Also only one drop of archdemon blood is required to create a GW and Riordan had more than just a drop of blood..

[Illegitimus]

Riordan knowing about Loghain's history doesn't make him a stronger choice 

 

 

It means he knows that Loghain is a man with nothing to lose, ready to go kamikaze to rescue some scraps of his honor.  While that may also be true of Oghren, Riordan doesn't know that.  

[Tidus]

illegitimus,I would trust Oghren far more the Loghain.. After all Loghain wanted you dead throughout the game and more then willing to have you executed if you lose the Landsmeet. No,a enemy and a traitor  deserves no mercy other then a quick clean death.

 

As far as being a great fighter, a  Elven warden beat him. I'm sure the last thing he saw was those fiery hate filled green eyes just as Vaughan and Howe did before they died.

[Aren]

It means he knows that Loghain is a man with nothing to lose, ready to go kamikaze to rescue some scraps of his honor. While that may also be true of Oghren, Riordan doesn't know that.

And?
His duty is to stop the blight regardless of what he think or what he know of the recruits and in order to do that he should have forced massive recruitment.

[Illegitimus]

illegitimus,I would trust Oghren far more the Loghain.. 

 

 

So what?  This isn't about you and your personal grudge.  It's about Riordan's reasons for proposing to hand Loghain the cup.  Riordan wasn't at Ostagar, isn't Ferelden.  He has no emotional connection to Loghain's treason.  To him Loghain is just one of many thieves, murderers, heretics and traitors who have been given one last chance to expiate their misdeeds in a way that will kill them, sooner or later, but might make some use of them first.  Daveth was a thief.  Duncan was a murderer.  The Dwarf Commoner was a gangster.  The Dwarf Noble a convicted fratricide and traitor.  The wickedness of Loghain's deeds just makes him a better candidate because he's expendable.  If he dies by the cup or slaying the arch-demon, it's no real loss.  And that Loghain lost to the Warden doesn't make him not a great fighter.  A lot of great fighters lose to the Warden.  

 

 

And?
His duty is to stop the blight regardless of what he think or what he know of the recruits and in order to do that he should have forced massive recruitment.

 

 

I'm quite confident that he doesn't have the materials for massive recruitment and massive recruitment isn't a good idea anyway.  You only need one Warden to strike the killing blow, rookie wardens who haven't had many months to grow into their role as bait are no more useful than anyone else of equivalent experience in battle against the Darkspawn and you'll be losing a lot of good fighters to the cup itself not to mention undermining your support from the local military.  Duncan wasn't doing massive recruitment either.  

[Tidus]

Riodan was a fool. He says he was torture by Loghain  and now he wants to save him. Also do recall Riodan is Orlesian.. We know beyond a doubt Loghain hates Orlesians yet Riodan lives. Something not right about that.

 

BTW.My dislike for Loghain isn't a personal grudge its justice being served for his crimes against humanity and treason. Sending Crows to kill my warden didn't help Loghain's redemption cause  either. I see Loghain for what he is, a monster that is just as killable as any Darkspawn.

 

BTW..The Dwarf noble did not kill her/his brother if you follow the story line.

[springacres]

BTW..The Dwarf noble did not kill her/his brother if you follow the story line.

Actually, that depends on the choices you make during the Origin.  When Bhelen talks to you about the process of selecting a new ruler, at least one of the conversation options results in Trian attacking you after you've retrieved the "relic", forcing you to kill him.  However, one of the other options means he gets killed offscreen and you discover his body.

[ArcadiaGrey]

Riodan was a fool. He says he was torture by Loghain  and now he wants to save him. Also do recall Riodan is Orlesian.. We know beyond a doubt Loghain hates Orlesians yet Riodan lives. Something not right about that.

 

BTW.My dislike for Loghain isn't a personal grudge its justice being served for his crimes against humanity and treason. Sending Crows to kill my warden didn't help Loghain's redemption cause  either. I see Loghain for what he is, a monster that is just as killable as any Darkspawn.

 

BTW..The Dwarf noble did not kill her/his brother if you follow the story line.

 

Pretty sure Riordan is Ferelden, despite the accent.  Could've sworn he said that in Origins...

[Akrabra]

Pretty sure Riordan is Ferelden, despite the accent.  Could've sworn he said that in Origins...

That is correct. He is from Highever.

[Tidus]

But,Riordan lived in Orlais not Ferelden and that would make him a Orlesian.

[Illegitimus]

Riodan was a fool. He says he was torture by Loghain  and now he wants to save him. 

 

 

Having higher priorities than personal vengeance isn't folly.  And using Loghain for the Sacrifice wouldn't exactly "save" him.  In fact Riordan believes the Sacrifice would not just kill Loghain.  It would deny him any kind of afterlife.  Not a fate to lightly consign anyone to.  

 

 

 We know beyond a doubt Loghain hates Orlesians yet Riodan lives. Something not right about that.

 

 

Torturing Riordan for information about the Wardens and what they are up to is consistent with Loghain's desire to believe that there is no true blight and it's all just a scheme to take over Ferelden.  

 

 

 

BTW.My dislike for Loghain isn't a personal grudge its justice being served for his crimes against humanity and treason. 

 

Of course it's a personal grudge.  Yes, Loghain is a criminal.  So are a lot of Grey Wardens as I've already pointed out. So are half your companions.  The optimum criterion for recruiting a Grey Warden is "Is this is a person who would be useful, and who won't be a loss should he die just from drinking the cup."  Loghain is good enough to be useful, and isn't likely to be missed by Riordan or the Warden (and more importantly couldn't be useful in any other way).  His life is already forfeit.  So going by the Grey Warden "whatever works" ethic, he's ideal for recruitment.  

 

 

BTW..The Dwarf noble did not kill her/his brother if you follow the story line.

 

He might have depending on how you play him.  But that's beside the point.  Even if you're innocent, you've still been convicted of the crime, and Duncan has no way to know whether you were innocent.  

[Tidus]

illegitmus, No,its not personal.. Its justice nothing more..There is no reason to make Loghain a warden on Riordans say so. I would rather run him through then let Loghain think he's invincible. He has to pay for his crimes against humanity and treason.

[ArcadiaGrey]

But,Riordan lived in Orlais not Ferelden and that would make him a Orlesian.

Nope, just checked the wiki. Born and bred in Highever as Akrabra said.

[GoldenGail3]

Nope, just checked the wiki. Born and bred in Highever as Akrabra said.

So he should've known my Cousland?

[ArcadiaGrey]

So he should've known my Cousland?

 

Yeah, I guess, tho he's older so your Cousland would've been a kid when he left.

[Tidus]

I suggest you play that dudgeon cut scene on a saved game and listen closely to what Riordan says. The Orlesian wardens needed somebody to come and check on the situation  and since I was from Ferelden I came. He was with the Orlesian wardens not with the Ferelden wardens and if he was he would be dead like Duncan and the others. There's only two surviving greys the PC  and Alistair. That fact is established in several ways.

 

Technically  Riordan is a Orlesian since he lives there.

[ArcadiaGrey]

I suggest you play that dudgeon cut scene on a saved game and listen closely to what Riordan says. The Orlesian wardens needed somebody to come and check on the situation  and since I was from Ferelden I came. He was with the Orlesian wardens not with the Ferelden wardens and if he was he would be dead like Duncan and the others. There's only two surviving greys the PC  and Alistair. That fact is established in several ways.

 

Technically  Riordan is a Orlesian since he lives there.

 

Jeez, Riordan is FERELDEN.  He was born in Ferelden.  He grew up in Ferelden.  He tells you he's from Ferelden.

 

Just because he went to work in Orlais does NOT make him Orlesian, just as Leliana is not Orlesian.  Do you not know how nationalities work?

 

Sheesh. 

[Tidus]

Yes,probably more the average person. Riordan had to pay Orlesian taxes so,that means he's Orlesian and he been there long enough to pick up their accent. Leliana is Orlesian but, considers herself a Fereldian.. Leliana is a mysterious person when it comes to her background and  she is a bard and well train in blending in.

[Akrabra]

So he should've known my Cousland?

That depends, as your Cousland is a Noble and living in the Castle. He could have been a small brat from one of the surrounding farms, and he is older than us in the game, by at the least 10 years i would say. Ser Jory doesn't recognize your Cousland either, even though he has his wife in Highever. He does adress you accordingly though. 

[Akrabra]

Yes,probably more the average person. Riordan had to pay Orlesian taxes so,that means he's Orlesian and he been there long enough to pick up their accent. Leliana is Orlesian but, considers herself a Fereldian.. Leliana is a mysterious person when it comes to her background and  she is a bard and well train in blending in.

Orlesian taxes? How do you know? Have you seen the Orlesian tax record? He is a Grey Warden, which is probably why he moved to Orlais. Born and bred in Highever, BORN IN HIGHEVER!

 

Also he clearly states this the first time you meet him in DA:O - "I am Riordan, senior Warden of Jader, but born and bred in Highever and glad to be home" You see, home, as in Ferelden is his home.

[ArcadiaGrey]

Orlesian taxes? How do you know? Have you seen the Orlesian tax record? He is a Grey Warden, which is probably why he moved to Orlais. Born and bred in Highever, BORN IN HIGHEVER!

 

Also he clearly states this the first time you meet him in DA:O - "I am Riordan, senior Warden of Jader, but born and bred in Highever and glad to be home" You see, home, as in Ferelden is his home.

 

I'm glad I'm not the only one facepalming over this.....

[Illegitimus]

Orlesian taxes? How do you know? Have you seen the Orlesian tax record? He is a Grey Warden, which is probably why he moved to Orlais. Born and bred in Highever, BORN IN HIGHEVER!

 

Also he clearly states this the first time you meet him in DA:O - "I am Riordan, senior Warden of Jader, but born and bred in Highever and glad to be home" You see, home, as in Ferelden is his home.

 

Clearly though he's been away long enough to lose the accent.  

[Illegitimus]

illegitmus, No,its not personal.. Its justice nothing more..There is no reason to make Loghain a warden on Riordans say so.

 

I already told you the reason.  Loghain is useful but entirely expendable.  That's a reason.  

[GoldenGail3]

Yeah, I guess, tho he's older so your Cousland would've been a kid when he left.

My Cousland and him would have an awkward conversion....

"You know... Highever fell to Howe."

"It did?'

"Yeah..... I'm sorry to tell you that though."

"It's been many years sense I've been there..."

[GoldenGail3]

That depends, as your Cousland is a Noble and living in the Castle. He could have been a small brat from one of the surrounding farms, and he is older than us in the game, by at the least 10 years i would say. Ser Jory doesn't recognize your Cousland either, even though he has his wife in Highever. He does adress you accordingly though.

I headcount they have a awkward conversion of how Highever fell to Howe... Lol.