153 réponses à ce sujet

[Tidus]

Actually you can save your palm slaps.. Study your ancient history instead.. If you was born in country A and moved to country B you paid  taxes in country B. Riorden was living in Orlais and had been for quite some time since he was serving with the Orlaisian wardens.

[ArcadiaGrey]

Actually you can save your palm slaps.. Study your ancient history instead.. If you was born in country A and moved to country B you paid  taxes in country B. Riorden was living in Orlais and had been for quite some time since he was serving with the Orlaisian wardens.

 

Yes I know that, he's still Ferelden though.  Moving to a different country doesn't change your nationality.

[Illegitimus]

Yes I know that, he's still Ferelden though.  Moving to a different country doesn't change your nationality.

 

I'm not sure Loghain would agree when it comes to "Fereldens" who have lived in Orlais since they were children and can't even speak their native tongue without a foreign accent.  

[ArcadiaGrey]

I'm not sure Loghain would agree when it comes to "Fereldens" who have lived in Orlais since they were children and can't even speak their native tongue without a foreign accent.  

 

He grew in Highever, which is in Ferelden, not Orlais.

[Illegitimus]

He grew in Highever, which is in Ferelden, not Orlais.

 

Until he left.  And based on his accent he was pretty young when that happened.  

[ModernAcademic]

What people should be asking instead is how the hell does Anora know the Joining is fatal. Only Wardens know what it is and how it's performed.

[GoldenGail3]

What people should be asking instead is how the hell does Anora know the Joining is fatal. Only Wardens know what it is and how it's performed.

Psst, it's Plot Armor!

[Aren]

What people should be asking instead is how the hell does Anora know the Joining is fatal. Only Wardens know what it is and how it's performed.

That the joining can be fatal is a known possibility from many not only by GW.
Anora is a well educated noble, so she does know some things.

[animedreamer]

What people should be asking instead is how the hell does Anora know the Joining is fatal. Only Wardens know what it is and how it's performed.

Well unless you're pretty thick headed (plot demands you be dumb) your friend or loved one goes off to join the wardens and you never hear from them again, or you go to visit them a week later and they tell you they're dead you kind of start to draw conclusions, besides everyone knows you have to do the joining to become a Warden, they just dont know what it entails or what it does other than making it so you can sense darkspawn. Also think about Pryce Couslands reaction to his youngest being sought after by Duncan, he goes from being proud and praising the Warden's to almost wanting to throw Duncan out on his arse, the nobles know that Joining the Warden's is pretty much a death sentence.

[Deadly dwarf]

There is something to Wardens picking specific people for the Joining.  While doing the city elf orgin, if you choose to remain silent after killing Vaughan, the nasty female elf betrays both the city elf PC and Soris, his/her cousin.  Duncan specifically uses the treaty to recruit the PC, but leaves Soris to rot because he doesn't believe he'd survive the Joining.  The nature of this power to determine suitable wardens is never explained, but it may explain Riordan's effort to get Loghain while ignoring other prospects.

[animedreamer]

There is something to Wardens picking specific people for the Joining.  While doing the city elf orgin, if you choose to remain silent after killing Vaughan, the nasty female elf betrays both the city elf PC and Soris, his/her cousin.  Duncan specifically uses the treaty to recruit the PC, but leaves Soris to rot because he doesn't believe he'd survive the Joining.  The nature of this power to determine suitable wardens is never explained, but it may explain Riordan's effort to get Loghain while ignoring other prospects.

No, it's more likely that Duncan saw that Soris was sniveling coward who barely had the nerve to pick up a sword and kill someone if necessary. Just look at how he runs away to find help when the Elf PC challenges Duncan to a fight, despite being marked as a Warrior by the mechanics it's obvious Soris isn't a fighter, your PC was actually trained to be either a Warrior or a Rogue by your dead mother, it was these credentials that Duncan acknowledged as well as your bravery in both standing up to him, and your daring in either rescuing your bride or fighting your own way out and killing vaughn if you were the bride.

 

In fact even when your the bride it's your husband to be (Nelaros?) that is the one who rallies for support and decides to charge in after you, not Soris, Soris only came along to help. (God now I feel like playing that game all over again... DA:O is the only game that makes me feel this way I swear.)

 

also lol I just thought about the joining again... Warden' are asses, they just let you fall down to the ground, they don't if care you bump your head or get a concussion, what jerks, catch me you idiots. lol

[ModernAcademic]

Well unless you're pretty thick headed (plot demands you be dumb) your friend or loved one goes off to join the wardens and you never hear from them again, or you go to visit them a week later and they tell you they're dead you kind of start to draw conclusions (...).

 

Because a Warden's life is dangerous. They fight darkspawn, they can be killed on the road by bandits, etc.

But no one knows about the Joining except the Warden recruits. It's another secret from the Order. So...how does Anora know?

[animedreamer]

Well unless you're pretty thick headed (plot demands you be dumb) your friend or loved one goes off to join the wardens and you never hear from them again, or you go to visit them a week later and they tell you they're dead you kind of start to draw conclusions (...).

 

Because a Warden's life is dangerous. They fight darkspawn, they can be killed on the road by bandits, etc.

But no one knows about the Joining except the Warden recruits. It's another secret from the Order. So...how does Anora know?

The Joining itself is not a secret though, people know that Grey Wardens can sense Darkspawn no matter where they hide, that's not a power you learn hence people know about the joining. The fact that people can die from it is also not much of a secret either for reasons I've explained, even Flemeth knows about the Joining (not that it's much of a surprise since she seems to know everything about everything because she is tied to everything.) but there is also the fact that in the Dragon Age setting, dying isn't all that uncommon a thing. You don't have to be a Warden to get killed anywhere in Thedas, we've seen gangs of goons attack people in armor in a party of 4 routinely in Dragon Age Origins, and Dragon Age 2 while walking around towns and cities, (props to Inquisition for not making you get jumped in the middle of broad daylight in Orlai.), so people who are smart in Thedas can't be fearing you'll die fighting just Darkspawn, they have to know it's a more certain or sudden death that is coming to you if you join the Wardens. 

 

Even Cailan knows about the joining, he even says "I understand congratulations are in order."

 

The Warden's seem to be terrible at keeping secrets, "Loghain already knows the Archdemon is actually a Dragon." So either the Warden's exploits and organization are well documented, or Darkspawn and how they operate including Blights are well documented, even that as such a Farmboy like Loghain knows what a Archdemon is. 

[kimgoold]

After Tidus or Camine kills Loghain the AD blood remains ready for use-not a peep from Riordan. Wonder why? Was he under a blood magic mind controlling spell or in cahoots with Loghain and lied about being tortured? 

 

Where did Riorden actually go after being released from his cell? He seemed to be in a big rush to leave the area and there's that ambush after you release the queen. All prime and waiting for you to wade right on in.

 

Even though everybody in the group was in on the killing of Howe and his men Loghain was only interested in locking up the warden.

 

How did Guards know Howe was dead? Why didn't they rush to save Howe before he was killed?

 

Seems like that asp of a man Loghain was double dealing in treachery and betrayal. 

I believe the ASP in that set up was Anora! a more self serving and conniving character I have yet to see. She set up being at Howe's, so she could then betray you either as you escape or at the landsmeet. Howe even remarks how she loves to play games as in the Game?. The whole we have to save Anora bit was so obviously an Anora/Loghain ploy. And if your stupid enough to back Anora/Loghain Riordan is remarkably quiet about Alistair being executed when Every Warden is Needed, Ha. I still say Anora was the Mastermind behind Loghain and all his machinations, she after all was the one who benefited the most. She only turns on  her father because he had the temerity to take the Throne which she see's as Hers.

[GoldenGail3]

I believe the ASP in that set up was Anora! a more self serving and conniving character I have yet to see. She set up being at Howe's, so she could then betray you either as you escape or at the landsmeet. Howe even remarks how she loves to play games as in the Game?. The whole we have to save Anora bit was so obviously an Anora/Loghain ploy. And if your stupid enough to back Anora/Loghain Riordan is remarkably quiet about Alistair being executed when Every Warden is Needed, Ha. I still say Anora was the Mastermind behind Loghain and all his machinations, she after all was the one who benefited the most. She only turns on  her father because he had the temerity to take the Throne which she see's as Hers.

No.

[Tidus]

Kim Goold, You may be right.. Anora may have been double dealing in treachery. She could have planed the ambush before she was "rescued". I never completely trusted her or her lady in waiting. 

 

 

Some times I feel my warden was conned into rescuing Anora by Eamond since he knew if anything happen to her the two wardens and he would be blame for assassinating the Queen. Loghain would have used that against the wardens at the Landsmeet. He already asked if she even still lived.

 

Loghain accused the PC warden as the puppeteer that would pull Alistairs strings but,who was Loghain's real puppeteer? Could that puppeteer been Eamond since he put Alistair forth as king? Recall Alistair isn't the brightest bulb in the building and he wants the pc warden to stay and help rule even though he has a perfectly good Queen to help him if one chooses to have Alistair  marry Anora.

 

In my games Camine will never marry Alistair since she knows down deep Ferelden would never accept a Elf as Queen and by this time she's fed up with Denerim's politics  anyway because of the attempted murder on her, the bounty placed on her head, purging of the Alienage, the trap after she recues the Queen  and the Elves being sold into slavery while she was gathering a Army to fight the blight and save Ferelden..

 

Back to dear Anora.. If made Queen the first thing she does is orders the execution of Alistair.. What? Only three wardens to face the AD and she wants to slim the odds even more simply because in her mind she fears Alistair will lead a rebellion after the blight?

 

Yes,I know she relents but,still.

 

As far as the joining another knows about it. Leliana.

[Illegitimus]

I believe the ASP in that set up was Anora! a more self serving and conniving character I have yet to see. She set up being at Howe's, so she could then betray you either as you escape or at the landsmeet. Howe even remarks how she loves to play games as in the Game?. The whole we have to save Anora bit was so obviously an Anora/Loghain ploy. 

 

She doesn't betray you as you escape at the landsmeet.  You betray her.  You blow her cover and expose her to recapture.  And she only betrays you at the Landsmeet if you give her no reason to support you.  It's possible that Anora deliberately let herself get captured so that she could hook up with Loghain's opponents to overthrow Loghain and regain control of the government, but it's certain that Loghain wasn't part of that plan.

[Tidus]

Illegitimus, At that part I usually surrender since its a unwinnable battle.

 

Anora could have conspired to have you captured after her "rescue".. How did the guards know Howe was dead?  Anora could have been double dealing in treachery as well. She's a very capable women that wants to keep her throne.

 

Now then.

 

I really enjoy the rescue of the warden since I use Morrigan and Leliana-I doubt if she would sit and do nothing while her sweetie is in danger. Her bard training came in handy and her Cloister training  got her and Morrigan pass the guards except for one group. Very slick but,Morrigan dress as a sister.. Genius.

[Illegitimus]

Illegitimus, At that part I usually surrender since its a unwinnable battle.

 

Anora could have conspired to have you captured after her "rescue".. 

 

 

Except that isn't at all consistent with her behaviour after your capture.  She doesn't go back to Loghain.  She goes to Eamon.  Given that her plan is to ingratiate herself with the wardens and use them to regain her power (and whether it was before she was imprisoned it certainly was afterward) she has nothing to gain from the PC's capture.  She'll "betray" the PC by disavowing that he was rescuing her, but the PC was going to the dungeon whether she did that or not.  Anora getting locked up again wouldn't help that. 

[Tidus]

True enough and that's why I surrender peacefully . Anora doesn't get locked up the second time. She goes with the extraction team while the warden is dragged off to Ft. Drakon. Loghain main concern is the warden. Anora is dress as one of Howe's soldiers and basically sneaks out unnoticed and reports to Eamon that the warden was captured..

 

Still at that point Anora wants to keep her fanny on the throne and figurers throwing in with the warden and Eamon is her best chance. I think the warden derails her thoughts when he suggest she marry Alistair and as we know she lays down the ground rules for said marriage.

 

Even Eamon warns the warden not to trust her.

[Scuttlebutt101]

 

The Warden's seem to be terrible at keeping secrets, "Loghain already knows the Archdemon is actually a Dragon." So either the Warden's exploits and organization are well documented, or Darkspawn and how they operate including Blights are well documented, even that as such a Farmboy like Loghain knows what a Archdemon is. 

Archdemon isn't one of the Wardens' secrets though. It's a historical fact that Archdemons are dragons, Brother Genetivi writes about it in his book.

 

As for the Joining, a lot of people seem to know that there is a Joining and it can be fatal, but no one except the Wardens actually knows what it entails. There are a lot of things that can kill you in Thedas other than drinking Darkspawn blood, for all the general populace knows it could be a duel to the death, or spending a day alone in the Deep Roads or something. It's actually more surprising to me that Wardens have managed to keep any secrets at all.

[kimgoold]

She doesn't betray you as you escape at the landsmeet.  You betray her.  You blow her cover and expose her to recapture.  And she only betrays you at the Landsmeet if you give her no reason to support you.  It's possible that Anora deliberately let herself get captured so that she could hook up with Loghain's opponents to overthrow Loghain and regain control of the government, but it's certain that Loghain wasn't part of that plan.

I believe Anora was hedging her bets, she's told her father she backs him, and she's got this great plan to spy on the Warden and kill the now inconvenient Howe all in one fell swoop. Many say Loghain was unaware of Celene and Cailan planning to marry, but Anora knew! why else in DAI would she mention (as Queen) that there is bad blood between her and Celene? How doe's Anora even know of the plan to replace her?. I have said before and will continue to say Anora was the real reason Cailan was killed by Loghain, to stop them both (Anora and Loghain) loosing control of a malleable king and thus Ferelden whom they both believe can only be ruled and saved by them.

[Scuttlebutt101]

How doe's Anora even know of the plan to replace her?.

She knew about Cailan's other "discreet" affairs, why would this one be any different?

 

I have said before and will continue to say Anora was the real reason Cailan was killed by Loghain, to stop them both (Anora and Loghain) loosing control of a malleable king and thus Ferelden whom they both believe can only be ruled and saved by them.

 

Back in Ostagar Loghain tries to talk Cailan out of fighting on the front lines because it's too dangerous - kind of counter-productive if he wanted to kill him. Anora looks genuinely upset when she asks Loghain if he killed Cailan, and they were alone, so no reason for her to put on a show. It's been 10 years and two games since Cailan's death, If it really was some kind of dastardly scheme of hers it would have been at least hinted at by now. 

[Illegitimus]

Riordan knowing about Loghain's history doesn't make him a stronger choice or that he'll survive until the end, for that matter, 

 

And what has anyone else handy done that Riordan knows of that makes them worthy to be condemned to death?

[springacres]

And what has anyone else handy done that Riordan knows of that makes them worthy to be condemned to death?

A very good point, since the Joining itself is a potential death trap.