lllgitimus,Interesting thought.. I to wondered if Anora would kill Alistair but,the couple shows up in DA:I 10 years after the AD is killed.
I could never trust a man that wants Tidus dead so, Tidus kills him before he kills Tidus.--the same principle that the Army taught me and I applied that principle for 13 long months and that's how I survived.
Really? So you killed people after they surrendered, did you?
Illegitimus,The Geneva Convention forbids the killing of POWs and the Army takes a very dim view on such actions so,no,I didn't kill POWs but,as long as they was in the fighting mode I did what I had to do.
As far as Loghain I don't consider him a POW but,a ruthless enemy that would order the execution of my warden,Alistair and Eamon if they lose at the landsmeet. I never lost the duel but, suspect the same would happen. He never stands a chance against my wardens especially against Camine the Arcane warrior.
----------------------------------------
Aren,After the AD is dealt with my warden leaves Denerim since he or she won't babysit King Alistair since both is fed up with Ferelden politics.
One thing I really like about DA:O is one is free to chose what path his/her warden walks. My wardens do what they deem necessary and neither conforms to the ways of the Grey Wardens. Come to think of it they would probably make a better Red Jenny then they do being a warden.
One thing I really like about DA:O is one is free to chose what path his/her warden walks. My wardens do what they deem necessary and neither conforms to the ways of the Grey Wardens. Come to think of it they would probably make a better Red Jenny then they do being a warden.
My HoF also would be considered more of a Red Jenny than a die hard Warden. She never makes Golems, kills Slavers and Blood Mages. She remains mistress to help her people (elf) and her lover from the faithless/selfish nobles. I only once married Anora to Alistair, all other times my HoF is there to watch and kill the reptilian Anora if she tries to revolt.
Illegitimus,The Geneva Convention forbids the killing of POWs
Yeah I know. The military doesn't really teach people to handle defeated enemies the way you would Loghain.
That's the difference between real life and a game.. We can chose which path to take and like I said before he will die for his crimes in my games..Your path is to set him free.. The main thing is we are playing the game according to our game style.
That's the difference between real life and a game.. We can chose which path to take and like I said before he will die for his crimes in my games..Your path is to set him free..
Actually it isn't. I'm going to kill him or not depending on what character I'm playing. My City Elf certainly killed him. Gotta stab 'em all. If I ever finish a mage runthrough since I won't be fighting him myself (because the idea of a mage being allowed to settle a succession dispute in a formal duel is ridiculous) the decision won't even be in my hands. Alistair will be fighting him and of course Alistair will kill him. The thing is, it IS personal motivation, and there's no point to pretending that the Grey Warden ethic, or military training, or even some cosmic standard of justice is what makes the other decision not an option for you.
But what I or my character, or you or your character do remains utterly irrelevant to the question asked.
Illegitimus, Suffice to say a man like Loghain deserves death for his crimes against humanity. The Nazis and the Japanese learn that lesson after WWII. I see Loghain for what he is. He was the hero of River Dane but, some where he became demented-look at the look on his face if he thinks he has best your warden.. Even though its a game I often wondered what his real thoughts was when my Elven wardens beat him. My arcane warrior had him beat shortly after they started the duel.
------------------------------------------------
Aren,Neither Tidus or Camine walk the path of a Grey and like I mention before they would make better Red Jennys.
Both leave Denerim after the victory hoopla at the castle.
They are not your typical grey wardens nor do they wish to be a warden..
Those who walk on an absolute GW path will always spare Loghain and use him for the Archdemon.
Alistair clearly isn't a GW like Riordan and Duncan.
GoldenGail3, Even though Tidus and Camine are tainted with Drakspawn and AD blood they still don't walk the path of a true warden nor will they ever..
Both feel they was mislead since they have 30 years or so to live before heeding their calling, both have seen their family and friends killed or sold into slavery while they was rising a Army to defeat the blight and saved Ferelden.
Do not think for a moment they will forget that. They killed a Arl's son because he brutalized Shianni,they killed Howe for purging the Alienage. Loghain was killed for selling their family and friends into slavery and for his other crimes. The Trevintor Slavers was killed for their deeds. They spare Cauthrien because she finally realizes Loghain is deranged and steps aside.
Those who walk on an absolute GW path will always spare Loghain and use him for the Archdemon.
Alistair clearly isn't a GW like Riordan and Duncan.
How so? He has the taint like them?
I think what Aren means is that Alistair isn't willing to see that Loghain could be useful as a Warden. He can't see past his own personal issues with Loghain, even to imagine why the guy might be needed for the final battle.
Then again, neither can any of my elven Wardens.
I think what Aren means is that Alistair isn't willing to see that Loghain could be useful as a Warden. He can't see past his own personal issues with Loghain, even to imagine why the guy might be needed for the final battle.
Then again, neither can any of my elven Wardens.
GoldenGail3, Even though Tidus and Camine are tainted with Drakspawn and AD blood they still don't walk the path of a true warden nor will they ever..
Both feel they was mislead since they have 30 years or so to live before heeding their calling, both have seen their family and friends killed or sold into slavery while they was rising a Army to defeat the blight and saved Ferelden.
Do not think for a moment they will forget that. They killed a Arl's son because he brutalized Shianni,they killed Howe for purging the Alienage. Loghain was killed for selling their family and friends into slavery and for his other crimes. The Trevintor Slavers was killed for their deeds. They spare Cauthrien because she finally realizes Loghain is deranged and steps aside.
GoldenGail3, I suppose walking the path of a warden is following the standard operation procedures of the Order without hesitation or questioning why something is being done.
GoldenGail3, I suppose walking the path of a warden is following the standard operation procedures of the Order without hesitation or questioning why something is being done.
GoldenGail3, I suppose walking the path of a warden is following the standard operation procedures of the Order without hesitation or questioning why something is being done.
In that case, I doubt any of my Wardens will ever measure up to that ideal. (And being the cynic I am, I'm not sure I would call that "ideal" at all. Someone asks me to do something that makes no sense logically, or that I'm not sure I'll like, you bet I'm gonna question it.)
In that case, I doubt any of my Wardens will ever measure up to that ideal. (And being the cynic I am, I'm not sure I would call that "ideal" at all. Someone asks me to do something that makes no sense logically, or that I'm not sure I'll like, you bet I'm gonna question it.)
GoldenGail3, I suppose walking the path of a warden is following the standard operation procedures of the Order without hesitation or questioning why something is being done.
You suppose wrong. It would be perfectly appropriate for a warden to question whether a standard operating procedure was serving the purpose of defeating the darkspawn. But ignoring the goal (defeating the darkspawn) in favour of other priorities such as, overthrowing a tyrant, taking personal revenge, liberating the mages, enforcing laws against apostates or blood magic...that isn't walking the path of the warden.
Illegitimus,You do know wardens will do what ever it takes to get the job done.. In the DA book the " The Calling" Genevieve was willing to kill King Meric if there was a need even though she recruited him to guide her in the Deep Roads.. It also appears Duncan was skating on Genevieve's thin ice as well since she was willing to hand him over to King Meric for punishment for a crime he committed in Denerim for one reason.. That reason was her personal quest to find her brother before the Darkspawn did. The reason was simple he knew where the old Gods was located. Instead of allowing him to enter the deep roads with that information why didn't the wardens simply kill him?
Seems the Order is indeed flawed.
Loghain is killed because of what he did for justice and his treason. Or would you rather my warden prop him up and apologize for killing him? In DA:I Sera made a excellent point, baddies die and those that aren't so bad maybe they won't end up quite so dead.
Illegitimus,You do know wardens will do what ever it takes to get the job done.. In the DA book the " The Calling" Genevieve was willing to kill King Meric if there was a need even though she recruited him to guide her in the Deep Roads.. It also appears Duncan was skating on Genevieve's thin ice as well since she was willing to hand him over to King Meric for punishment for a crime he committed in Denerim for one reason.. That reason was her personal quest to find her brother before the Darkspawn did. The reason was simple he knew where the old Gods was located. Instead of allowing him to enter the deep roads with that information why didn't the wardens simply kill him?
Because they weren't aware there was a sapient darkspawn who could actually use that information and expected him to die quickly. .
Illegitimus, Then why send a small patrol into the deep roads to find him if they was unaware?
The Order failed in protecting their secretes and rushed head long into the deep roads to correct that mistake causing the lost of several wardens..
Because she had a way of knowing her brother was living an impossibly long time in the Deep Roads.
Still that's no excuse to let him head into the deep roads.. The wardens are fast to kill others but,when one of theirs heads goes to his calling with vital information they let him go..Then after realizing their mistake Genevieve mounts a patrol, drags Ferelden's King into the deep roads and the majority of the patrol is needlessly lost.. The wardens fail. I guess Genevieve and her brother was connected by ESP because how would she even know he yet lives in the deep roads?
The Order had made many mistakes because of their SOP and stupidly. They even killed their Giffons.
I rewatched the video of you rescuing Riordan from Howe's dungeon, he mentions that the Archdemon blood from the Vault was either stolen / confiscated (likely by Loghain and Howe), or destroyed. However if you make Loghain a Warden the Archdemon blood they use most come from somewhere and the current one hadn't shown itself yet.
See, this is what I don't get, and what I ultimately don't accept about even giving Loghain the option to go through the Joining. Loghain can't go through the Joining because Riordan doesn't have access to the supplies to make the ritual happen.
Even David Gaider's answer to the absence of Archdemon blood is unsatisfactory:
Becoming a Grey Warden requires a dose of the darkspawn corruption in sufficient potency that it immediately affects someone, rather than slowly enough to sicken them. Archdemon blood can be used (though is understandably much rarer), but any darkspawn blood can be magically treated to make it work. Your rank-and-file darkspawn simply doesn't have enough of the corruption within him to do the trick... though who knows? If he drank enough, maybe it might work.
Even supposing Riordan was able to immediately get ahold of some fresh darkspawn blood (though there were no darkspawn in Denerim at the time), there was never any indication that he was able to magically treat it in the way Gaider mentions. Riordan isn't a mage, and the only Gray Warden mage that could theoretically be within reach is the protagonist, who knows nothing about how to recreate the Joining ritual. Riordan never even mentions anything other than Archdemon blood as an option, suggesting that it's the only method he's capable of using for the Joining cocktail.
So, in order to Join Loghain, they would've had to recover the Archdemon blood, assuming it wasn't already destroyed, then go collect fresh darkspawn blood, which may or may not have put them in the clutches of the entire horde at that point. All to induct one man as an alternative to an earned execution? It seems far-fetched at best, and is the sole reason I will never recruit Loghain.
Retour en haut