153 réponses à ce sujet

[Aren]

Yeah, but I was still pointing that out. I understood what he was saying.

The grey wardens aren't a mere state of being just because someone has the taint this doesn't mean that the person is a grey warden.

For example Anders in DAII doesn't work anymore for the organization same for Alistair if he become king or if he become drunk.

Possess the taint is not what it makes a GW it is the hierarchy of the organization.

There are several GW who are not tainted(they never did the joining),like those that the first warden wanted to send in Orlais in DAI to investigate

since he couldn't send tainted GW because of Corypheus or in DAO the PC,daveth and Jory are already recruit GW even before to do the joining.

Woolsey and Varel of DAA are also people who received orders from the first warden in person and they are GW because they belong to their organization and they recieve order from Wheissaupt.

[Aren]

GoldenGail3, I suppose walking the path of a warden is following the standard operation procedures  of the Order without hesitation or questioning why something is being done.

If Riordan want to spare Loghain than the player should be forced to do so since he is the senior warden and he can easily use the right of conscription.

[German Soldier]

Riordan why are you trying to make us fail?

 

 

Riordan:"Because i was hired by Bioware to play this part,i'm sorry it wasn't my fault,blame the writers for the stupidity occurred from the landsmeet on and especially for my stupid death

i really wanted to recruit more wardens and also to tell you that i wanted to sacrifice myself at Eamon estate when we were alone long before the landsmeet thus allowing you to know everything before of the Loghain Decision.

But the writer insisted on the dark ritual being a temptation for everyone despite how little sense it had"

[Tidus]

Aren, In my games if you think either Tidus or Camine  would have backed down you would be wrong.  At that time I'm sure Riorden looked into those hate filled green eyes for any signs of weakness  and ended up with a case of better judgment real fast less he cross that crazy knife ear that just beat a renown warrior and the hero of River Dane . 

 

But,as we know in the real game Riordan doesn't push the issue to save Loghain when he could have easily conscript him like you say...

 

As far as the DR.. My wardens know dying for nothing means shet and therefore Tidus does the DR or Camine cons Alistair into doing it.

[kimgoold]

 

 

Loghain is killed because of what he did for justice and his treason. Or would you rather my warden prop him up and apologize for killing him?  In DA:I  Sera  made a excellent point, baddies die and those that aren't so bad  maybe they won't end up quite so dead.

And this is why I love Sera. Kill the baddies, spare the rest. Protect the forgotten and unimportant, you know us. And Loghain while a hero in the PAST is a baddie Now.

[Illegitimus]

 

If Riordan want to spare Loghain than the player should be forced to do so since he is the senior warden and he can easily use the right of conscription.

 

 

A smart Warden uses the right of conscription judiciously.  The PC is at that moment fundamentally in charge of all of Ferelden and has been autonomous for virtually their entire career as a Warden.  Riordan would no more pull rank on the PC (and Alistair) in a political issue like that than he'd do it to the actual monarch in more normal times.  

[Aren]

 

As far as the DR.. My wardens know dying for nothing means shet and therefore Tidus does the DR or Camine cons Alistair into doing it.

 When it comes to Urthemiel i don't know what mercy is anymore,i finish him off with his soul destroyed in pieces and Morrigan have only to deal with it..my Warden king's word is law

A smart Warden uses the right of conscription judiciously.  The PC is at that moment fundamentally in charge of all of Ferelden and has been autonomous for virtually their entire career as a Warden.  Riordan would no more pull rank on the PC (and Alistair) in a political issue like that than he'd do it to the actual monarch in more normal times.  

Riordan could have easily forced the right of conscription on Loghain regardless of what the player or AListair wanted.

[Illegitimus]

 

Riordan could have easily forced the right of conscription on Loghain regardless of what the player or AListair wanted.

 

 

No he couldn't have.  Alistair and the PC are the ranking Ferelden wardens because they are the only Ferelden wardens and they are currently in control of the Ferelden civil government.  If they say "no" how is Riordan going to enforce his order?  Seniority in the order is a frail reed to rest such a contentious command on.  Never give an order that you're pretty sure won't be obeyed.  

[Tidus]

Aren,I suspect its more what I learned in the days of my youth-dying for nothing means sheet and my Elven wardens won't die besides nothing changes other then a tomb at Weisshaupt for the CE warden.. His/her follow CEs will still be mistreated and hated even though they have a equal voice in a Landsmeet--a nice gesture by King Alistair.

 

No,I won't let either Tidus, Camine or Chasha die for nothing nor will I let Rikku( my female brand) die for nothing either.

 

 

If any one of my wardens die in a given game, who's going to save Vigils Keep and Amaranthine?  

[Mike3207]

 

 

 

If any one of my wardens die in a given game, who's going to save Vigils Keep and Amaranthine?  

The Orlesian Warden.

[Tidus]

Mik3207,Yeah,if one wants to start a new character but, if your DA:O character is already a tank why waste him/her?

[Aren]

Aren,I suspect its more what I learned in the days of my youth-dying for nothing means sheet and my Elven wardens won't die besides nothing changes other then a tomb at Weisshaupt for the CE warden.. His/her follow CEs will still be mistreated and hated even though they have a equal voice in a Landsmeet--a nice gesture by King Alistair.

 

No,I won't let either Tidus, Camine or Chasha die for nothing nor will I let Rikku( my female brand) die for nothing either.

 

 

If any one of my wardens die in a given game, who's going to save Vigils Keep and Amaranthine?  

and the old gods are to blame for that so i say that they deserve to die even more than Loghain.

since those bastards taught to the magisters all those blood magic spell used to kill the elves and enslave them for thousand of years after the fall of Arlathan,thus leading to the creation of Tevinter.

[Tidus]

Aren,So,your warden would die for nothing?  It doesn't change anything nor will it stop the next blight, what happens in DA:A  or what happens in DA:I.  This is why Tidus will do the DR or Camine will con Alistair into doing the DR.

 

You can't blame the old Gods for what Loghain and Howe did. They die for their crimes against humanity.

[sjsharp2011]

You're right, it doesn't make sense.  They could've easily got Oghren, Sten, or any able soldier to become a warden.  There should be enough blood for a good few tries.  

 

Also why would Alistair stomp off in a huff if you recruit Loghain?  Ferelden needs all the wardens it can get and he was fine with saving Sten, who don't forget had just murdered children, but not Loghain?  You'd think he'd put his personal feelings aside, even to throw Loghain headlong at the arch demon as bait.

 

Why would Riordan make that stupid jump on to the dragon when he could have waited and not died such a stupid death.  Why wait so long to tell you that someone has to die to stop the blight?

 

The Landsmeet is needlessly convoluted and they could have simplified the whole ending.  I guess the answer to all these issues is 'because reasons' but it's annoying and a bit silly.  I end up shrugging and going with it, what else can you do?

I kind of headcannon that Riordan assumed that Duncan would have told us when we underwent the Joining at the beginning of the game. I suspect the reason why Duncan didn't was because he didn't think they'd lose the Ostagar battle. As for jumping on the dragon I assume he did that to try to wound it so it couldn't fly off as it needed to be brought down befoer it could be killed

[sjsharp2011]

Pretty sure Riordan is Ferelden, despite the accent.  Could've sworn he said that in Origins...

 

 

He did he said he was from Highever I believe which is where I believe the Cousland family's territory

[Aren]

Aren,So,your warden would die for nothing? It doesn't change anything nor will it stop the next blight, what happens in DA:A or what happens in DA:I. This is why Tidus will do the DR or Camine will con Alistair into doing the DR.

You can't blame the old Gods for what Loghain and Howe did. They die for their crimes against humanity.

The sacrifice of the GW isn't for nothing and in Killing that soul i denied it to Flemeth and Solas and even reedemed Loghain.
 

[Tidus]

Aren,I once thought that way but,dying for nothing means sheet. So in my games Loghain will die for his crimes,the DR will be preformed. Nothing changes.

 

 

You see after that mess in  Denerim,Kirkwall and Vigil's Keep plus thousands of Shems fleeing to Kirkwall during the blight when they was needed to defend their country my warden thinks taking his/her dad,Shianni,Soris ,Valora and Leliana to Orlasis would have been the better part of valor.

[ShadowLordXII]

OP's right on the money.

 

The Loghain recruitment situation is a contrived mess-up and constitutes as a plot hole.

 

To draw from my Origins review:

 

.....Let's face it, the only reason that Loghain was recruited was desperation for an ambiguous reason that Riordan just assumed that the Warden knew.

 

In fact, why did Riordan just assume that the Warden knew about the cost to slay the Archdemon? Why didn't he make sure to check during our personal chat in Eamon's estate? Why didn't he take Alistair and the Warden aside to tell them about the Archdemon price so that we know exactly why Loghain should be recruited?  Why couldn't a Warden with maxed out coercion persuade Alistair to bite the bullet for Ferelden's sake?

 

Or better yet, why does Loghain absolutely need to be recruited? Couldn't we put someone else through the Joining? How about Ser Cathrien? Oghren? Zevran? Sten? Any of the hundreds to thousands of knights, soldiers, elves, dwarves, mages and templars in my service? The Crimson Oars? Sergeant Kylon? Soris? Gorim?

 

Everyone that I mentioned would make far better candidates and are all available within the city to be recruited. Gorim actually has experience fighting darkspawn as the former lieutenant of a Dwarven prince; Soris helped slaughter a garrison of armed and trained soldiers with weapons that he picked up and/or borrowed; Cathrien has the health of a dragon (no joke); and none of them have made the strategic/political/tactical blunders that Loghain has made in the past year. Even if Riordan only has enough Joining Juice for one recruit, Loghain has done nothing but screw up his country for the past year, is he really the best choice that we have?

 

The above questions are why I've only recruited Loghain once. The situation is very interesting, but it's too contrived to have the impact that the writers wanted. There's hidden audio files that indicate that you could've recruited Loghain and kept Alistair. But the developers wanted to force in a "hard decision" for the sake of drama. However, by trying to force their drama, it only lessens the possible natural dramatic impact that this dilemna could have had. It's also a shame because Loghain is a great character and having him as a companion is fairly interesting.

 

The situation would've been better if the weren't trying to force things down the "drama route" so hard that it creates incoherence in the plot. There was no reason for Riordan to assume that the Warden and Alistair, two fresh Warden novices, would know about the Archdemon sacrifice. At the very least, there's no reason for Riorden not to double-check and know for certain since these are novices.

 

Especially if this is the reason why he's adamant on having Loghain recruited. And even then, there's plenty of better candidates to pick from apart from.

[Aren]

 

 

 

Especially if this is the reason why he's adamant on having Loghain recruited. And even then, there's plenty of better candidates to pick from apart from.

What's amazingly ridiculous is when you recruit Loghain and Riordan make him into a grey warden ,then at Redcliffe he said to both Loghain and the PC that he assumed that you two(included Loghain)  knew about the US.

I'm bluffed,if Riordan made  Loghain into a GW why he assumed that he did know about the US?

[Tidus]

Aren,That's another reason I won't allow Loghain to join. I saw that scene on you tube and I knew then it didn't make sense.

 

IMHO  allowing the joining is a weak way out of killing Loghain for those who doesn't see or understand Loghain is mentally unstable.

 

That Hitler like rant at the end of the Landsmeet proves he flew over the cuckoo's nest and lost all reality.

[Illegitimus]

 

What's amazingly ridiculous is when you recruit Loghain and Riordan make him into a grey warden ,then at Redcliffe he said to both Loghain and the PC that he assumed that you two(included Loghain) 

 

 

No, he was talking about Alistair and the PC.  

 

 

Aren,That's another reason I won't allow Loghain to join. I saw that scene on you tube and I knew then it didn't make sense.

 

IMHO  allowing the joining is a weak way out of killing Loghain for those who doesn't see or understand Loghain is mentally unstable.

 

 

 

Well you've repeatedly described your own character as just as nuts.  

[Tidus]

Illegitimus,Not nuts but, my warden can see what Loghain is and how important it is to end the blight since the Shems is to busy fighting and bickering between their selves. Loghain allows the Darkspawn to run amok,locked his daughter up, allowed Howe to torture people,wants all wardens dead not even realizing why they are needed and after losing at the Landsmeet he flies into a Hitler like rage.

 

Loghain is mentally unstable and a danger..

 

And yes, Riordan  was talking to the PC and Loghain since both was new to the Greys..Its a story line glitch since Loghain is suppose to be dead.

[The Baconer]

Because they needed to have some kind of dilemma in choosing to spare or execute Loghain. 

 

Not that it's a hard choice for me regardless, but it is what it is. 

[Aren]

No, he was talking about Alistair and the PC

I understood that he wasn't talking about Loghain in his post, however i pointed out that Riordan (the game) behave indifferently from the situation.
If Loghain is recruited he is clearly a new member of the order who couldn't possibly know of the US.
Riordan at Redclieffe act surprised in front of the fact that Loghain is ignorant about it and it's ridiculous since he was made into a GW by Riordan himself ,so it was impossible for him to know anything anyhow. As the senior warden it was his duty to inform Loghain about the reason he conscripted him with the joining long before Redclieffe, he should had reveal this at Denerim.

[Illegitimus]

I understood that he wasn't talking about Loghain in his post, however i pointed out that Riordan (the game) behave indifferently from the situation.
If Loghain is recruited he is clearly a new member of the order who couldn't possibly know of the US.
Riordan at Redclieffe act surprised in front of the fact that Loghain is ignorant about it

 

Riordan isn't talking to Loghain.  He's talking to you.