Aller au contenu

Photo

Old God Prisons


  • Veuillez vous connecter pour répondre
18 réponses à ce sujet

#1
Mac007

Mac007
  • Members
  • 52 messages

To Trap a God

 

So I'd like to preface this post by saying that all of my deductions and facts are based on the Chant of Light and in-game codex's in the most literal sense. I know there are many theories to do with the Elven Pantheon, but this post is not taking those theories into consideration.

 

Now to begin. I was reading on the Wiki when I noticed that there was an actual confirmed location of an Old God Prison. Further reading led me to notice that the Prison was in fact in the part of the Deep Roads we visit in the 'Descent' DLC. This intrigued me and I scoured the forums for locations of other Old God Prisons, but I could not find any unfortunately. So I did many hours of research and have created what I believe to be a plausible map of the location of 6/7 Old God Prisons, and the Archdemon that was imprisoned in each. I will explain myself for each location and cite my evidence.

 

Map of Old God Prisons

IfN2pSY.jpg

 

Dumat

Dumat was tough to place, as records from back then are hazy. This location is only an informed guess. The reason I estimated here was because The Magisters landed at the former site of Barindur when cast from the Golden City (Canticle of Silence 3:16). Barindur is said to have been located on the Southern Coast of The Nocen Sea. The 1st Blight also began in the same year as the Magisters were cast out, so they couldn't have traveled far (also they would have had difficulty traveling through Tevinter). And not that I counted this as evidence, but it seemed right somehow that the 1st Blight began at the center of Thedas.

 

Zazikel

Luckily for me, it is almost outright stated that the 2nd Blight began in the southern Anderfels (World of Thedas Vol. 1, Pg. 156-157). It is likely that Zazikel's prison is somewhere in the Hunterhorn Mountains.

 

Toth

Although no outright location is stated, from looking at the initial attacks of the 3rd Blight, it becomes apparent that Toth was imprisoned somewhere in the Northern Orlais and Southern Tevinter region.

 

Andoral

Andoral was buried somewhere in Aniva. This is made clear by the opening battles of the 4th Blight, which resulted in the destruction of every Antivan City, save for it's capital. The Darkspawn then proceeded to simultaneously ravage both Rivain and The Free Marches.

 

Urthemiel

Now this is where we begin to have more evidence. In a letter from Legionnaire Kardol to The Orzammar Shaperate, Kardol spoke of finding an empty Old God Prison beneath Heidrun Turning (Wolrd of Thedas Vol. 2, Pg. 106). I strongly believe this to be the Prison of Uthemiel, as it is the only prison even remotely close to Ferelden. Heidrun Turning is also relatively close to Bownammar (the location where we physically see the Archdemon in the Deep Roads during Origins).

 

Lusacan/Razikale

This one is the most interesting. There are multiple references to an Old God being below The Western Approach, including this Ancient Warden Logbook.

 

SPt1Vxn.jpg

 

As we can see from the above journal, there almost certainly is an Old God beneath the Western Approach. However, if that wasn't enough, Cole has some very interesting dialogue in the Western Approach. "The Darkspawn are below us. A long way, but still singing". Note that this dialogue is only in the Western Approach. There is no way to be sure whether it is Luscuan or Razikale slumbering below, however. The ONLY piece of evidence is that the pronoun 'he' is used, and Luscuan is a male (whereas Razikale is a female). The use of one pronoun, however, seems insignificant as evidence.

 

Final Thoughts

Where is the 7th Old God Prison? We have no way of knowing. I personally think it may be somewhere in the Northern Anderfels, but that is just a personal thought of mine without any evidence to back it up. What do you guys think? Please tell me if I have any facts wrong, I have not read all of the books so I may have missed something. Thanks guys! :)

 


  • nightscrawl, Loyal Tevinter, Obsidian Gryphon et 13 autres aiment ceci

#2
nightscrawl

nightscrawl
  • Members
  • 7 478 messages

This is pretty great, and I applaud you for your efforts. I think the circle for Dumat could have been about 3x larger simply for how vague the reference is, but that general region seems about right. Also, I do think that the pronoun usage would be a good hint if this were real life and Cole was a real entity with his abilities. However, given that there can be inconsistencies in game content, I'm going to agree that the pronoun is a bit thin for evidence in this case.

 

My one quibble is that you didn't cite codex sources by linking to them on the DAwiki, so we could all follow along, but I do appreciate the references to The World of Thedas volumes.

 

Nice work!



#3
Addictress

Addictress
  • Members
  • 3 184 messages
This is amazing
  • Mac007 aime ceci

#4
Mac007

Mac007
  • Members
  • 52 messages

This is pretty great, and I applaud you for your efforts. I think the circle for Dumat could have been about 3x larger simply for how vague the reference is, but that general region seems about right. Also, I do think that the pronoun usage would be a good hint if this were real life and Cole was a real entity with his abilities. However, given that there can be inconsistencies in game content, I'm going to agree that the pronoun is a bit thin for evidence in this case.

 

My one quibble is that you didn't cite codex sources by linking to them on the DAwiki, so we could all follow along, but I do appreciate the references to The World of Thedas volumes.

 

Nice work!

 

Thanks! I added a few links but is there any specific codex's you would like cited? And I noticed that about the Dumat circle too, but I couldn't change it without restarting (darn MS Paint :P )

 

This is amazing

 

Thanks! :lol:



#5
Nimlowyn

Nimlowyn
  • Members
  • 1 810 messages

I'm sorry I don't have much to add right now, but this is very impressive. I'd always assumed that Urthemiel awoke south of the Korcari Wilds but that WOT 2 reference you pulled is pretty strong evidence. Good work. Makes me think how fun it might be to check back on these theories in a few years (and update them)! 



#6
Obsidian Gryphon

Obsidian Gryphon
  • Members
  • 2 411 messages

Great work! *thumbs up* :D

 

Talking of the old gods and the deep roads, does anyone have any idea what are the deep roads? Are they really just roads that connected the old dwarven kingdoms or are they the remains of Titans, taken down in a war? They would not have given the dwarves that unique feeling as experienced by Valta as they're dead. If they were involved in a fight, would it be these old gods that killed them and ended up trapped within the titans?


  • ModernAcademic aime ceci

#7
Andromelek

Andromelek
  • Members
  • 1 157 messages
Great job!
I personally don't think that Cole using "he" and then revealing that Razikale is a female on JoH it's a coincidence, so I would say that Lusacan is imprisoned beneath The Western Approach while Razikale might be on Tevinter or nearby, I really hope we can see one of them untainted.

#8
Mac007

Mac007
  • Members
  • 52 messages

Great job!
I personally don't think that Cole using "he" and then revealing that Razikale is a female on JoH it's a coincidence, so I would say that Lusacan is imprisoned beneath The Western Approach while Razikale might be on Tevinter or nearby, I really hope we can see one of them untainted.


Oh I was actually referring to the Ancient Warden Logbook when I said about the male pronoun, but does Cole say "he" too?

#9
coldwetn0se

coldwetn0se
  • Members
  • 5 611 messages
I wouldn't be terribly surprised if Razikale is imprisoned somewhere in the Frostback Basin, based in part on what was learned in JoH (and we do find the Staff of Razikale there as well...). Might be an interesting twist too, since the Tevinter ruins appear to be part of a Tevinter Prison (perhaps a tiny hint or nod from the writers...?? ;) ). Just a thought.

Nice work, OP! :)

#10
Andromelek

Andromelek
  • Members
  • 1 157 messages

Oh I was actually referring to the Ancient Warden Logbook when I said about the male pronoun, but does Cole say "he" too?


Oops, sorry, I've changed subjects, anyway, I still think that Razikale is somewhere on Tevinter rather than under Western Approach, for a time I've even being curious if it's more than a coincidence that Sten said the Old Gods were like Kings for the Dragons and then the Great Dragon inhabiting the Silent Grove being addressed as the Queen.

#11
Mac007

Mac007
  • Members
  • 52 messages

I wouldn't be terribly surprised if Razikale is imprisoned somewhere in the Frostback Basin, based in part on what was learned in JoH (and we do find the Staff of Razikale there as well...). Might be an interesting twist too, since the Tevinter ruins appear to be part of a Tevinter Prison (perhaps a tiny hint or nod from the writers...?? ;) ). Just a thought.

Nice work, OP! :)

 

Almost got my newest character to JoH, will be sure to explore the area much better this play through, I think I remember the area you're talking about (haven't played JoH since June :pinched: ).

 

Oops, sorry, I've changed subjects, anyway, I still think that Razikale is somewhere on Tevinter rather than under Western Approach, for a time I've even being curious if it's more than a coincidence that Sten said the Old Gods were like Kings for the Dragons and then the Great Dragon inhabiting the Silent Grove being addressed as the Queen.

 

Have not read the comics about Yavana and the Silent Grove so unfortunately I don't know what you mean about Great Dragons, but are you refering to this line about Sten?

 

"the Old Gods were like unto dragons, as the first human kings were like unto ordinary men ".

 

When I read that on the Wiki I thought "Them crazy Qunaris" and assumed that they meant in terms of power and size, but you may be on to something there!


  • coldwetn0se aime ceci

#12
BansheeOwnage

BansheeOwnage
  • Members
  • 11 243 messages

I'm sorry I don't have much to add right now, but this is very impressive. I'd always assumed that Urthemiel awoke south of the Korcari Wilds but that WOT 2 reference you pulled is pretty strong evidence. Good work. Makes me think how fun it might be to check back on these theories in a few years (and update them)! 

Me too. It seems a bit odd the Darkspawn would mass south of/in the Wilds if the Archdemon was so far north, since I thought the horde would centre around an Archdemon, as they are called to its position to free it. Could this time be different because the Architect awoke Urthemiel, not the horde?


  • Mac007 et Dancing_Dolphin aiment ceci

#13
Mac007

Mac007
  • Members
  • 52 messages

Me too. It seems a bit odd the Darkspawn would mass south of/in the Wilds if the Archdemon was so far north, since I thought the horde would centre around an Archdemon, as they are called to its position to free it. Could this time be different because the Architect awoke Urthemiel, not the horde?

 

Hmm perhaps. Maybe as opposed to already being with the horde when it awoke, as all previous Archdemons were, Urthemiel had to seek out the horde itself (which was presumably further south).



#14
Andromelek

Andromelek
  • Members
  • 1 157 messages
Yup, that line, Great Dragons are another specie of Dragons, and they are indeed bigger more powerful and seemingly more clever than the High Dragons, Yavana's Great Dragon (aka "Queen of Dragons") happens to be bigger than Urthemiel himself.

Spoiler


I suspect that like other reptiles, she might be bigger due her gender, thus a male could be of the size of an Archdemon.

#15
Mac007

Mac007
  • Members
  • 52 messages

Yup, that line, Great Dragons are another specie of Dragons, and they are indeed bigger more powerful and seemingly more clever than the High Dragons, Yavana's Great Dragon (aka "Queen of Dragons") happens to be bigger than Urthemiel himself.

Spoiler


I suspect that like other reptiles, she might be bigger due her gender, thus a male could be of the size of an Archdemon.

 

But would that apply to Razikale, as Razikale is a female Old God?



#16
Andromelek

Andromelek
  • Members
  • 1 157 messages

But would that apply to Razikale, as Razikale is a female Old God?


Elven Gods were powerful elves, Avvar Gods were powerful spirits, so yeah, I believe that Old Gods are no more than a powerful kind of Dragons and as such they'll share some biological features with the other species.

#17
Mac007

Mac007
  • Members
  • 52 messages

Elven Gods were powerful elves, Avvar Gods were powerful spirits, so yeah, I believe that Old Gods are no more than a powerful kind of Dragons and as such they'll share some biological features with the other species.

 

Damn, Razikale gonna be HUGE then... pity the Wardens who gotta deal with her! :o



#18
In Exile

In Exile
  • Members
  • 28 738 messages

Elven Gods were powerful elves, Avvar Gods were powerful spirits, so yeah, I believe that Old Gods are no more than a powerful kind of Dragons and as such they'll share some biological features with the other species.

 

I stand by my theory: the old gods are the physical form of the Evanuris, who the old elves - after the creation of the veil - tried to re-create as gods by turning them into abominations like Hakkon. 



#19
Mac007

Mac007
  • Members
  • 52 messages

I stand by my theory: the old gods are the physical form of the Evanuris, who the old elves - after the creation of the veil - tried to re-create as gods by turning them into abominations like Hakkon. 

 

How do the Old Gods fit into that theory? (not being sarcastic, I'm new-ish to the forums and haven't heard your full theory before)