290 réponses à ce sujet

[AlanC9]

1. You're wrong. The animation is masculine. You dismiss facts that contradict you.

What facts? You've never managed to give a coherent account of what a non-masculine animation would have looked like

[midnight tea]

What facts? You've never managed to give a coherent account of what a non-masculine animation would have looked like

 

There are in fact masculine and feminine animations, but mostly walk cycles, which are vastly different between one another.

 

Other than that... some sitting animations? The ones that are more feminine-like is the sitting animation Josephine uses, for example - the "I stick my ankles together" is generally a sitting position a woman would find more comfortable, simply due to differences in anatomy. The "I spread my legs like I wear the world's biggest diaper" is kinda funny and seems more fitting for males.

 

Anyway, you can tell when female model uses male'ish animations because oftentimes it deforms the female models - it makes them hunch.

[midnight tea]

And you misunderstand (or misrepresent) my argument. So your claim makes no sense. The choreography is masculine because the movements are manly. The fact a male performs them shows that they were meant to fit a man. A female performing them does not mean the choreography is feminine. It just means she is performing masculine moves. Again, I didn't write that women must dance in any specific way. I merely identified the difference between masculine and feminine dancing, and pointed out that the male and female Inquisitors both have only the masculine style available to them. That proves the game was designed for a male Inquisitor in mind, and fits him better than the female.

 

I'll go back to this argument from a few pages back - um no, the fact that they've used male'ish animation for dance doesn't make the game better suited for male Inquisitors, it only means that male animation was likely the first they've done and they've stuck to it, possibly due to time and budget limits. So probably the same reason why they've never shown the Iron Bull's dance with Inquisitor (the scene fades to black) if we romance him and take him to Halamshiral. Doesn't make his romance less valid.

 

Plus, they use, for example, a pretty distinct male walk cycle even for NPCs like Morrigan (first animation before assault on Temple Of Mythal, or when Morrigan shows us Crossroads) or in other cutscenes which involve Leliana or Cassandra... does it mean that there are some male counterparts somewhere that fit the roles designated to them better than those characters???

No. And it would be silly to argue that way. Try and not mistake limits imposed on developers and cine-designers as suggestions that this or that Inquisitor is better only due to them using certain animations. I'm pretty sure that in case of that particular scene - or many others in fact - it wasn't really as important to apply different choreography, specifically tailored to females, as much as to scale the scene to all available models: Qunari, dwarves, humans, elves - all have different heights and all have to be individually set to accommodate anatomical differences between them, as it was explained by devs in some interviews, as well as on this very forum.

[almasy87]

Yeah..

Sorry Trevelyan. You were my first. But I quickly realized that it makes more sense to be a female mage Lavellan. The story just does fit better, whatever everyone else will say.

I still love my Trev and her Commander    But she will not be my canon, just my second.

And this comes from someone who never played elves in DAO, I always ever played a female Cousland. Cause it felt it made more sense (plus marrying Alistair ofc )

[DreamSever]

I cannot understand why a keeper would send a first to spy on a meeting an elf rogue can work no doubt, and why does it make the most sense, i think its all to do with the solas romance myself and thats it and mages being uber cool i suppose. Until i get over the elven model, i guess im missing out.

[Bardox9]

I didn't understand the elf mage backstory either. It makes no sense for a keeper to send their first. An elf rouge/warrior, fine. Totally understandable. A mage elf should have been either party of the Qunari merc squad or one of the apostates gathered there for the conclave. I think they did that just to save time with the npc dialog. It's a cheap move, but... well... no but. It was just lazy.

[Abyss108]

A First probably has more relevant knowledge to the situation. They are walking into a conclave on magic, being a mage themselves. So they will understand the proceedings more than a hunter, and could pass themselves off as a circle mage if anyone wondered why they were there. 

 

They were also probably taught to deal with humans, as they were expected to take over leading the clan at some point. Clan Lavellan was known for being quite diplomatic with humans, so it figures the Keeper would have tried to pass this on to the clan's First. So the First would make a good spy as she would know how to interact with humans.

 

The First would also have been known and trusted by the Keeper. She sent her to the enclave because she knew something important was going to happen that would "affect all elves". It makes sense to send someone who she would trust if something this important was going to happen. If the person she sent was going to be forced to take action/make any choices, it makes sense she would want someone who had been trained to make decisions for the clan.

 

Makes perfect sense to send the First to me!

[Dai Grepher]

1 - OK I guess all the women I've seen were secretly men in disguise since they don't fit this arbitrary make-up standard of femininity you have which no one else agrees with. 

 

2 - Suits with similar fits as the one in Inquisition.

 

3 - No Varric isn't a good fit because he has no history. Dorian is a good fit because of his countries history with Elves. The same way an Elf is a good fit for the rest of the game because of the same history.

 

1. Well, I've seen female body-builders before, therefore gargantuan muscles are not masculine. Women can have them, so they must be gender-neutral.

 

2. Again, I didn't write fits, I wrote styles.

 

3. Oh how dare you write that Varric has no place in the game and that dwarves can't provide an enjoyable gaming experience?

 

You say that but they quite obviously differentiated between the male and female animations for the controlled character, running and such. So where does that end and the gender neutral animations start? It seems to be in cutscenes I guess, maybe I've just answered my own question.

 

You're the only one that seems no be aware of these 'facts'*.

 

You did describe it in that way in an earlier post.

 

A dalish might care about flat ears because they care about the political landscape of the country in which they are building their organisation.

 

What exactly is wrong with this? Oh god maker forbid a women's legs should be even slightly open but a man can open their's as much as they want. Do you want her to sit in a pathetic way like Queen Elisif? She is a woman of power and she is in control.

 

 

 

*or seems to believe them.

 

But they are false gods that's just a fact.

 

Cut-scenes, yes. The voice-acting to some extent.

 

No, I think other people in this thread have agreed with me, though a lot on your side do tend to ignore these facts.

 

Find the post and I will retract my statement if you are correct.

 

Is the Inquisition rebuilding in Orlais? Because that's the country at issue in this point.

 

She's manspreading, especially if you choose the third option. I just prefer female characters who have power and yet keep their femininity. It is a rare combination though, since power and leadership are naturally male characteristics, and those roles naturally fit a man. So in most cases when a female takes a leadership role, her femininity suffers for it. Like in Meredith's case. She was a boss, but she was not particularly feminine.

 

That is what the Dread Wolf claims. A devout Dalish would have every reason to doubt him.

 

What facts? You've never managed to give a coherent account of what a non-masculine animation would have looked like

 

I did exactly this in two separate posts when I described what the female dancing with Florienne should have been like. To add to this, a female sitting on the throne should have feminine poses. Like sitting close cross-leg (with the back of the knee resting on the other knee), or with the ankles and legs together.

 

I'll go back to this argument from a few pages back - um no, the fact that they've used male'ish animation for dance doesn't make the game better suited for male Inquisitors, it only means that male animation was likely the first they've done and they've stuck to it, possibly due to time and budget limits. So probably the same reason why they've never shown the Iron Bull's dance with Inquisitor (the scene fades to black) if we romance him and take him to Halamshiral. Doesn't make his romance less valid.

 

Plus, they use, for example, a pretty distinct male walk cycle even for NPCs like Morrigan (first animation before assault on Temple Of Mythal, or when Morrigan shows us Crossroads) or in other cutscenes which involve Leliana or Cassandra... does it mean that there are some male counterparts somewhere that fit the roles designated to them better than those characters???

No. And it would be silly to argue that way. Try and not mistake limits imposed on developers and cine-designers as suggestions that this or that Inquisitor is better only due to them using certain animations. I'm pretty sure that in case of that particular scene - or many others in fact - it wasn't really as important to apply different choreography, specifically tailored to females, as much as to scale the scene to all available models: Qunari, dwarves, humans, elves - all have different heights and all have to be individually set to accommodate anatomical differences between them, as it was explained by devs in some interviews, as well as on this very forum.

 

Okay, does it make the WHOLE game better suited to males? No, but that is one example of where it is better suited to males. These examples stack. The reason for the female not being as well represented is irrelevant. The fact of the matter is that she is not as well represented.

 

I'm not talking about valid, I'm talking about fitting. What playthrough is best represented? Bull's romance is valid, but not as well represented if you can't dance with him. And by the way, I hold my own playthrough to the same standard. My male human mage romanced Cassandra. He did Wicked Eyes first, so he didn't get her romance locked in yet, and so he only had Josephine to dance with, which he did. And after seeing Cassandra's dance scene, I have to admit that Josephine's dance scene is better. Josephine expresses interest, while Cassandra expresses passiveness. Even so, this worked out fine for me, because Cassandra's romance kicked in right after that, as if she became jealous by seeing him dance with Josephine after she did not accept his invitation (pure headcanon I know). But overall, Cassandra can be taken everywhere, while Josephine cannot be, which gives Cassandra the clear advantage.

 

You mean when Morrigan and Leliana are blue-ring allies? That just means they are given the generic NPC walk. I haven't really paid any attention to it, so I can't comment either way. But their cut-scenes give them feminine motions. And no, that does not mean they have male counterparts anywhere, because they don't. The Inquisitor does though.

 

Eh, but the game was first made for human-only. Which means the female animations should have been done before the extra races were accommodated.

 

I cannot understand why a keeper would send a first to spy on a meeting an elf rogue can work no doubt, and why does it make the most sense, i think its all to do with the solas romance myself and thats it and mages being uber cool i suppose. Until i get over the elven model, i guess im missing out.

 

I can see your point. This is especially true if that Dalish mage has had to dodge templars constantly. My rationale for my secondary character, a female elven mage, is that she was sent because she was exceptional at evading templars, and that the Keeper believed the girl could offer good third-party perspective of the Mage/Templar situation. Buy a Trevelyan is still a much better candidate for this in the game.

 

I agree that most of these female elven mage fans are just Solas "romance" fans.

 

I think the mage aspect is correct. Mages have more dialogue options, and better involvement in using magical artifacts and affecting the maps using magic. Also, they can energize the Veilfire torches.

[DreamSever]

I'd say 2h champ works just as much as a mage both Trevelyan, both have valid reasons being there. I dont think the qun background is bad either if you talk with threnn she says you were part of lelianas mercenaries, and depending what you choose you have leadership skills too from leading your old merc band

[Illegitimus]

A First probably has more relevant knowledge to the situation. They are walking into a conclave on magic, being a mage themselves. So they will understand the proceedings more than a hunter, and could pass themselves off as a circle mage if anyone wondered why they were there. 

 

 

Unless that anyone happened to be a circle mage theirself.  Or notice the face tat.  Maybe cover it up with makeup?  

[pepper]

Female elf for me but then I'm pro elf. Its a fantasy game. I'd rather play a fantasy character lol. Everyone has their preference for sure.

[Abyss108]

Unless that anyone happened to be a circle mage theirself.  Or notice the face tat.  Maybe cover it up with makeup?  

 

There are mages from towers all over, no one knows every individual mage. Any mage who saw her would just think she was from a different tower. The real issue would be if she had to perform magic, as Dalish magic style is different from that taught in the circles. This is pretty unlikely to happen though, everyone is terrified of magic, and the templars are on edge, so noone will be running around getting spells cast.

 

The face tats are more of a problem, but these are a problem for any Dalish, not just the first. It's possible any human wouldn't realise they were Dalish tattoos - Dalish are supposed to be be rarer in the lore than they are in the game, and plenty of other people wear tattoos in Thedas. Humans also probably don't know they happen when you become an adult, so they assume she was originally Dalish, and got kicked out when her magic appeared!

[Tidus]

Abyss,The apprentice mage that studies monsters is Dalish.She was driven from her clan as a child because there was to many mages in her clan. She doesn't have the tats but,speaks Elven even though she spent time in a circle. That even took me by surprise.

 

I don't think anybody would be overly concern about a Danish Elf mage being at the concave and here's another tidbit. Apparently Justinia knew her since she calls her name well,actually she calls for somebody to help her but,that "somebody" is understood to be the pc's name regardless of race as verified by Cassandra twice once at the rift and again at the meeting (shouting match?) in the war room..

[Abyss108]

Abyss,The apprentice mage that studies monsters is Dalish.She was driven from her clan as a child because there was to many mages in her clan. She doesn't have the tats but,speaks Elven. That even took me by surprise.

 

I don't think anybody would be overly concern about a Danish Elf mage being at the concave and here's another tidbit. Apparently Justinia knew her since she calls her name well,actually she calls for somebody to help her but,that "somebody" is understood to be the pc's name regardless of race as verified by Cassandra twice once at the rift and again at the meeting (shouting match?) in the war room..

 

Yup, I know, she reaaalllly hated my Dalish mage. So there is a precedent of elf mages being kicked out!

 

Justinia doesn't know the main character though. She was just calling out for anybody to come help her. When Cassandra says Justinia calls out to you, she just means she called to you for help when you entered the room. If you were working with the people who were attacking her she wouldn't have called to you when you came in.

[Tidus]

Abyss,You might be right.. I'll listen more closely to Cassandra in the next stumble through of DA:I. I'm in my third game and still stumbling my way through but,the fun part is I learn or find something new each time.

[Elite Fennec]

Cut-scenes, yes. The voice-acting to some extent.

 

No, I think other people in this thread have agreed with me, though a lot on your side do tend to ignore these facts.

 

Find the post and I will retract my statement if you are correct.

 

Is the Inquisition rebuilding in Orlais? Because that's the country at issue in this point.

 

She's manspreading, especially if you choose the third option. I just prefer female characters who have power and yet keep their femininity. It is a rare combination though, since power and leadership are naturally male characteristics, and those roles naturally fit a man. So in most cases when a female takes a leadership role, her femininity suffers for it. Like in Meredith's case. She was a boss, but she was not particularly feminine.

 

That is what the Dread Wolf claims. A devout Dalish would have every reason to doubt him.

 

 

 

 

I agree that most of these female elven mage fans are just Solas "romance" fans.

 

The voice acting? how? There is a male voice and a female one as far as I'm aware.

 

It's not a case of ignoring facts it's that most of your arguments seem to just want to discredit the dalish character for any reason. I recently started a human playthrough just for variation and because I wanted a 1H warrior and always play elves. But there are things with this that I don't find all that believable such as the amount of contempt and disbelief with which they are treated. I feel that people would be more willing to accept a human herald than is shown because they would need some form of hope in a dire situation but yet you are regarded exactly the same as an outsider. There is a conversation with an character in Val Royeux who says that he has broken the chant. The human protagonist then asks "What do you mean, you've broken the chant?" Somebody from an Andrastian background or, at least, a family that has strong links with the Ostwick chantry would know this. There are discrepancies in all playthoughs.

 

Well they are based on the border of Orlais and potentially have several forts established within it so I would say yes they are rebuilding in Orlais.

 

Um no I wouldn't say that those roles naturally fit a man. Acting in a so called 'feminine' way is often the result of enforced gender roles rather than doing what feels natural. And I say that as a woman. I believe she is sitting in a way that is comfortable for her and gives her an air of authority, not trying to take on male characteristics at all.

 

Well yes I am a fan of the Solas romance but what's wrong with that? I also like the Cullen one and it's sickly sweet goodness. The thing is noone was trying to prove that the female elf is better through using the Solas romance it is you that is trying to promote the human above all others.